Paul Raven

1 hour ago, adrnyc said:

But then again, Larry was always extremely vocal about how he felt doing soap work was beneath him - no idea why he stayed for decades other than it was a solid paycheck

I don't think he felt that way. He was realistic about soaps and their limitations. He said he would play anything as long as he felt their was an honest motivation behind it. He liked the people he worked with (even married one!) and it gave him the opportunity to do stage work w/o worrying about money.

He was more dismissive of a lot of primetime stuff and laughed when ABC tried to lure him with promises of the chance to work on Love Boat and Fantasy Island.

Says something when half of the cast is averaging 2 or less episodes a week.

Sharon on twice- they have nothing for her. 

The statement that Y&R was the first to use cast members in the opening.

An episode of the short lived 'Road of Life' from the mid 50's shows the cast of the day's episode in the opening.

The news that CBS is considering a new soap and consequent posts about bringing back beloved soaps in some sort of revamp got me to thinking about GL.

How about a reboot that went back to the original 1937 radio show.?

Set in a diverse inner urban area, with the lead character a minister of  a non denominational church (Rev Ruthledge) his daughter (Mary) and Ned a young man with a blank past. 

The Kranskys a migrant family with a daughter out to make a better life for herself. (maybe revamped as an Hispanic family with the parents illegal immigrants) Ellis Smith a mysterious artist with a nihilistic attitude.

All of this sounds as relevant or more so as any modern soap. Mix the inevitable social issues with traditional soapy love affairs and secrets.

Diverse casting-the Rev and Mary could be black. The Jacob Kransky character could be gay etc.

What do you think?

It's so frustrating to watch when just about every plot point and story beat could be improved upon.

Had they the budget and the intention, the only direction they should have gone with Phyllis is show her doing community service and encountering some characters who might teach her a thing or two and try and redeem and reset the character.

Better than her vamping around Danny.

1 hour ago, te. said:

in fact, if Y&R rated as it does in daytime in prime time, it would be on the level of getting renewed these days.

In households yes, but the demos for  Y&R would be older and less affluent than the primetime show with the same rating.

3 hours ago, j swift said:

WAIT, isn't Russ older than Pat?

The original order was Pat, Alice and Russ.

Then Agnes Nixon made Russ a doctor so he was then older (maybe not as old as Pat?) but older than Alice.

Guiding Light

Nora Hansen Gibbs   Joanne Linville    May - Sept 59 pregnant mother who models at Bowden Gallery and befriends Marie Grant. Her husband Al deserted her when discovered she was pregnant and she asks Marie to adopt her baby but Marie refuses. Gives birth to a girl whom she names Marie(August 59) With Dick out of town Marie lets Nora and the baby move into her apartment. Hearing from Al,Nora goes to Las Vegas in hopes of  a reconciliation and leaves the baby with Marie. She and Al are killed in a car crash but only Al's body is found. Marie hopes to adopt the baby.

Al Gibbs    Never Seen  1959 Nora's husband who deserted her. Dies in a car crash in Las Vegas.

10 minutes ago, Khan said:

or you could make it GL "in name only," with a new setting and a new cast of characters, but as long as you keep that clear, identifiable theme in mind, you'll have something that will speak to fans both new and old.

Which is exactly what Irna did when she brought the show back in the late 40's in a new  setting with new characters.

Yes the available daytime audience is way different to primetime so things have to be adjusted accordingly.  Always had been really and they suffered when key advertisers reviewed their strategies and pulled money out of network TV.

As for development time Y&R was formally announced in November 72 I think and made it on the air in March 73.

Santa Barbara was in development for more than a year.

So it all depends on how quick CBS would want it on the air and how much time they would want/need for studio space,casting etc

3 hours ago, Xanthe said:

I know we have talked a lot about Hugh Marlowe as Jim Matthews and touched on his Hollywood career, but I did not realize until I caught the end of All About Eve on TCM tonight that he played Lloyd, Karen (Celeste Holm)'s husband.

Hugh Marlowe was on contract with 20th century Fox so was in a lot of their movies in the 50's. All About Eve was probably the most acclaimed/best known but Night and the City and Twelve O'Clock High were also well received.

CBS has been very conservative in daytime so this seems like a shift in philosophy.

They have a traditionally older audience who they seem to cater for eg the soft pedalling/back burner of the lesbian couple of Y&R and rejection of any story that deals with current issues. Maybe alot of that is Sony also.

Getting affiliates on board and making the show profitable would the major issues beyond the content of the show itself.

How about a 1 or 2 week nightime launch in Summer before moving to daytime?

Joe Gallison

Days of Our Lives Neil Curtis 2/13/74 - 10/16/91

Where The Heart Is Hollis Forbes March 72

Return to Peyton Place Steven Cord April 72- Jan 74

Some more

Mork & Mindy

Welcome Back Kotter

Chico & The Man

Police Woman

5 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

I wonder if the Penny recast would have worked better if they had waited a few years. They did that with Don

 

Maybe the writers weren’t interested or the character was indeed not replaceable . 

There had been a few Dons over the years and he didn't have the importance of Penny, the lead heroine. Also Bob, Ellen had been recast so Penny was a much loved original character and actress.

Penny was brought back in the two years Irna was not writing the show. I've never been able to verify exactly when Pheobe Dorin debuted or how long she lasted. Not long it seems, as she didn't have any story. Maybe the idea was a soft return where viewers could grow accustomed to her before there was any major story.

When Irna left, the show was still #1 and the jewel in the CBS daytime crown. That's why I am always puzzled as to why Joel Kane was chosen as her replacement. He had no daytime experience. Maybe after working with the all powerful Irna, P&G wanted more control and chose a writer they felt would be more malleable. Who knows?

I've never seen any articles from the time talking about this,

does anyone know more?

@vetsoapfan @Reverend Ruthledge

In terms of the vets I don't think anyone is expecting a frontburner story for them-although once in a while there might be a plot that would give them that status.

Rather i believe we want those characters to have an active part in their children and grandchildren's  lives and have a point of view and a stake in what is happening-not to appear every couple of weeks to lament or give pat advice.

Just as in the past the drama for the Hughes was about Penny and Bob-the young characters experiencing the turmoil but Chris/Nancy/Pa were involved and seen regularly. That generational storytelling would have worked in later years but the mindset was that nobody was interested in the old people.

And of course it didn't help that characters like Frannie/Andy/Kristina were MIA ,immediately marginalizing Kim/Bob/Nancy etc

This Danny/Phyllis/Christine stuff is ridiculous.

Phyllis has pulled so much s>>>t that they look like idiots having anything to do with her.

Phyllis is played out!!!

And  Danny is looking like a vampire with the jet black hair and aged  baby face.

I think P&G were active in getting rid of or diminishing vet performers.

This goes back to the 70's when Teri Keane and later Mandel Kramer were dropped from EON.

Then there were the firings at GL when Doug Marland was told to stop writing for Barbara, Adam and Steve.

Beverly Penberthy dropped from AW, Billi Lou Watt at SFT and so on.

If anything I think Goutman might have fought to have the vets kept on.

2 hours ago, SoapDope said:

I was surprised to see Michael Cole. He didn't have much of a career after his early success of The Mod Squad (1968-1973). 

Yes he was a big TV star but never followed through. Maybe he got a bad rep or walked away from good offers ... Anyway he turned up on GH for a while.

It annoys me to see Maree Cheatham here when she should have been involved with Days in some capacity. Their only original castmember still active and Maree never came back .

Paul Stewart was an underdevoped character and recast a few times but really he could have just left town and be brought back down the line. Having Liz and Paul both die within months was a bit gruesome.

The oft repeated claim that Irna came back and made a lot of changes does not really hold up. Irna returned Jan 72 and Liz  was killed off in Feb 73 so she played that story for a year. 

One other thought I had is why the decision was made to give David and Ellen two daughters rather than another son. I guess they wanted to keep Dan as the only son Ellen had to intensify that story. 

If only the soaps had kept some sort of through line that kept the history alive and linked the new with the old. 

If ATWT honored the Hughes and Lowell/Stewarts we would have seen Frannie and some children in the 2000s, Lisa's son Scott, the Ward quads, Kristina Hughes and others as major characters carrying on the legacy instead of being ignored or afterthoughts.

A lot of info in reference books dealing with the 50's and 60's is wrong ie list of headwriters, cast member dates etc

In the Cast List and Character Guide thread in Cancelled Soaps as well as Soap Hoppers  posters have made many corrections to rectify these mistakes.

Keep in mind the times. In the 50's and 60's  soaps pushed the narrative that womens' fulfillment came through marriage and children. That was their domain and major concern. So the wellbeing of their children was paramount. Husbands seemed to have a lesser say but older male figures either folksy types like Pa Hughes and Papa Bauer or successful worldly types like Judge Lowell were to be revered.

 Women like Edith Hughes, Claire Cassen and Meta Bauer were less stable and cause for concern.

Although they often had way more interesting lives than the 'heroines'.

It gave women at home some vicarious pleasure to see women with agency(hate that term) but the overall  lesson was that true fulfillment came from being a wife and mother.