Cat

I am torn between kicking out Shannon or Vicki -- until I watched the WWHL that @Nothin'ButAttitude mentioned. I love how Vicki came across, measured, comfortable with herself for the first time in a long while. I thought Andy seemed pretty into her, actually (and on another note, Rita Wilson was also on and she was fabulous! She'd be great on BH but she would never). Like @Chris B said, Shannon brings something to the show that no-one else does. She really puts her life out there. I don't want to reward the powerhungry crazy, though. It is clear she is projecting everything that is wrong in her life on Vicki. At this point, she needs to set fire to David"s clothes in his car, Waiting to Exhale styles. Then she needs to move her daughters out of that depressing rental and use the I Magnin money daddy gives her to get a new place. Basically burn everything that represents her current life to the ground and start over. Close the chapter on a marriage of dead-ends and resentment. It will be cathartic for her... and for us who have endured the agonizing death of the Beador marriage for over three seasons. But if it's a case of Shannon screeching "Are you kidding me??? I'm done! It's either me or Vicki!!" for a fourth straight season, then I choose Vicki. Because I can't with this emotional vampire blocking any movement in the show.

I forgot to mention this when talking about Dallas. Even though D'Andra's skincare/vitamin supplements company is, yes, still stuck in the late 80s, you have to appreciate that it remains in business, and that it was early on the wellness scene. I enjoyed watching this segment (below) with the chemist, talking about the formulation of a new skincare product that D'Andra is spearheading. It's her way of proving to her mother she can dedicate herself to a project and take the company forward. Honestly, I don't know why I find this clip so satisfying. I think because it has a touch of old Y&R about it! It makes me wish Y&R did more with the skincare/makeup business that was actually somewhat realistic (instead of just a random pretext to show Amelia HeinBore everyday and push Villy, but that's a rant for another thread). The clip also made me somewhat curious to try this L22 product lol.

Ugh! The moment when I truly hated that vicious old crust of skin and hairspray! I can't believe she guilted him in front of everybody, when he was putting his story out there. It was one of the grossest things I have ever seen done to a survivor of sexual abuse. He must have felt traumatised afterwards. You've hit the nail on the head, money buys anything and everything, it launders everything, it sweeps everything under the rug. HW did what he did because he had power and $$$ rolling in. He felt he could buy all the women in Hollywood -- because what are they but glorified prostitutes/pieces of ass, right? When the bottom line became squeezed, that's when his power diminished. Have you noticed who all the bigwigs are now? The major players are Amazon, Silicon Valley, hedge-fund men with ties to Trump (that's who Bob Weinstein is selling TWC to), China... This is bigger than Hollywood. These are major players. They are nations, or institutions even bigger and more powerful than one single nation. Best believe that they will do anything to maintain the status quo and continue to silence those who speak out. Harvey Weinstein is the sacrificial lamb. The other head honchos have thrown him and Ron Price to the wolves, banking on this being the general public's pound of flesh. Then, in a few weeks, when all this has died down, when another horrendous shooting or the threat of nuclear Armageddon dominates the headlines, when people's disillusion hardens into apathy, things will return to 'normal' -- they hope. I hope this is the beginning. Fling open all the doors and clean house. The magnitude of rape and sexual abuse people are going through continues to shock me. In particular, I hope Corey Feldman's abusers are named and shamed. We should be talking prison for people like this. When she isn't reminding us every couple of months that she and Leo DiCaprio are still BFFs y'all (while he looks like he can't even remember her name. If it ain't got a pair of DD knockers and Victoria's Secret angel wings attached to it, it ain't worth remembering), yes, Kate Winslet is promoting a movie that she made with Woody Allen. She also did one with Roman Polanski.

Oh hell yes Snark Queen Cary better return for a third season! This nanny revelation is soaptastic fodder. It is a big and embarrassing revelation but speaking for myself, I felt sorry for her at the way Brandi, Stephanie and LeeAnne planned the attack and rounded on her. I wish LeeAnne could see how Brandi uses her to do her dirtiest dirty work and then trashes her behind her back. Is Cary a homewrecking hussy? Probably. But whether she was a nanny or a nurse, does it matter? Now she's married to that mean little man who demands to be serviced daily and treats her like garbage and openly resents his toddler daughter. So in a way she got karmic revenge thrown back at her. Brandi, sigh. I really dislike her. I can't deny that she is great for this show, stirring up all the drama, but she's so jealous of Stephanie confiding in Cary more than her that she threw somebody who was a friend to her under the bus. Twice. Also, I blame her for fobbing that picture of her semi-naked hubby at a Christmas party on us. My eyes! LeeAnne's glass throw was so LeeAnne that if you watch cat-faced Tiffany, she is literally peeing in her pants with delight. This was a thrilling episode full of soapy goodness. I must say I loved D'Andra having the wherewithal to apologise to her stepson -- and when she 'showed up' robot-styles at Brandi's White Gala (she better hope Kyle Richards and The Agency doesn't sue her ass). OC I just watched the confrontation at the table posted on Bravo's YouTube channel. Shannon is honking bully and has literally emotionally-vampired this show. She has sucked every ounce of blood from it and from the audience. She is still holding onto [!@#$%^&*] that happened 3 years ago. If she can't let it go, she needs to end it: both her marriage and her participation on the show.

And in somewhat more uplifting news... Carrie Fisher sent a Hollywood exec who tried to force himself on her screenwriter friend a cow tongue in a Tiffany box. She personally delivered the gift with a note that said 'If you ever touch my darling Heather or any other woman again, the next delivery will be something of yours in a much smaller box.' https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/17/carrie-fisher-gave-predatory-producer-cows-tongue-heather-robinson

Haha ok I feel less out-there then. I do have to agree with @Antoyne and @alwaysAMC about last season. Erika had all her ducks in a row to be everything the BH fans adore in a HW, but she really messed up. I'm not talking about DWTS which nobody cares about. I'm talking her cold, disdainful attitude, especially in Hong Kong. In a weirdly insecure way, Erika looks down on the other women, including her minions Eileen and Rinna. She is like Bethenny in the sense that she treats her 'friends' like paid employees -- which TBF many are. Even the way she talked about her mother was belittling. It may or may not have been justified, but that judgement of her mother's "weakness" as a single mother came across coldly and badly. I wasn't really a Dorit fan -- until the Junk Boat Massacre. Erika and her two minions were on the attack, but Dorit punched right back, even though she technically did not have a leg to stand on re: PK's comments. Erika should have won that fight easily. When Dorit explained that she tried to be friends but Erika never let her in, Erika basically let her know that she didn't want her friendship and to shut up. Erika made such a meal of the situation that I realised she needed to keep this issue alive, so she could play poor little victim -- just like she did with that stuff with her mother. But she milked it too hard ("YOU...DON'T KNOW... WHAT I GO THROUGH AT NIGHT" was like an audition reel for Y&R). She took herself too seriously. And it backfired. I know it sounds like I must despise Erika here ^ but in actual fact I find her interesting. I find her weaknesses (lol) and mistakes and failures interesting. I wonder if this season she will have learned from last year or whether she remains disdainful and snotty. She is going to have to loosen up and get over the deep insecurities she hides under a wall of costumes and spackle.

I need to rant. Some celebs are jumping on the "I hate Harvey Weinstein too!" bandwagon now for publicity purposes and it is starting to really grate. Case in point: Kate Winslet, who after giving a self-important "I am shocked, shocked I tells ya" press release last week, has come back to inform the world of her incredible courage... when she 'purposely' left Harvey Weinstein's name out of her Oscar thank you speech for The Reader. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-kate-winslet-harvey-weinstein-20171014-story.html Is this her idea of The Resistance? Does she want a medal for her bravery? Admittedly I have always disliked this woman's shtick. But I can't believe she wants plaudits for not kissing Pervey's gross, hairy ass that one time nobody remembers.

I like Erika sometimes *hides*

lol it really does! Like a studio shot that Michael Logan then uses on his TV Guide Twitter to announce that somebody is OUT! lol omg Rinna is Stockard Channing playing Rizzo, and Erika is Olivia Newton John playing Sexy Sandy. I got CHILLS! THEY MULTIPLYIN' !

It needs to happen, but it cannot overnight. Not unless all these longtime studio bosses are replaced across the board by more representative young talent. Daytime is a microcosm of all this: we complain about the same incompetent names on our soaps' closing credits, well, I am seeing a lot of the same names in these entertainment companies since the 90s/2000s. I used the word omerta purposely earlier because it comes from Sicily and the culture of silence there regarding the Mafia. Once this attitude becomes ingrained and part of the culture (a culture where it is ok to treat women/minorities as commodities, as second -class citizens, as your personal blow-up doll, your personal punching-bag) then that culture becomes very difficult to change. It becomes about changing mentality (and as the marches on Charlottesville showed, how much has mentality changed with regards to 'old ways'?). People become attached to this way of doing things. Even people who don't directly exploit sexually are happy to deal because 'that's just how the system is,' 'better the devil you know,' 'I don't have time for your hysterics.' So many women, as Ellen Barkin said on her Twitter, were expected to work around this kind of sexual harassment, this workplace atmosphere, until it became quietly normalised, expected even. Given the synergy between Hollywood and other creative industries, I feel like there is an unspoken synergy in workplace culture too. Certainly when I worked with literary agents, in publishing and later in fashion publishing, there was talk, things were 'known,' you did as you were told, you didn't make a fuss, and your bosses were literally feudal kings and queens with the power to make you or break you with their crazy demands and temperamental mood swings. Sorry for rambling about this subject; it is interesting to me all the big stars (mostly male) who are shocked, shocked I tells ya about Harvey Weinstein's crimes... and yet women all over the world sigh knowingly at this news, at the details of what happened and how the coverup/public blacklisting went down. Hey maybe you are, maybe you're not. I haven't seen yesterday's tweets, just the ones from last week where she calls out some big names and presents screen-grabs for proof. I thought it was pretty ballsy of her, considering she is a confirmed victim of sexual assault and had to sign a non-disclosure agreement by the Weinstein Company (if there was nothing to disclose, why gag her with one?). When Twitter tried to shut her down, I was incensed. But I also agree that being on social media does delude people into thinking they are at the epicenter of something, inciting major change. I've seen it with Rose, and with some other famous Twitterati. I hope she can make a movement out of this and trigger change for the better, but as with any kind of fame, sometimes it goes to your head and distorts your perception, your ability to relate to others.

DRW, what in particular disturbs you about Rose McGowan on Twitter? I haven't been following her minute-by-minute, but she has been speaking truth to power from what I have seen. She has called out Bob Weinstein for the coverup and Jeff Bezos of Amazon (specifically Amazon studios) and other execs. I guess I am inclined to believe what she is saying, that it took a village to effect a coverup. And yeah, Scotland Yard is investigating Lysette Antony's claim that Weinstein raped her after getting her drunk, I believe. But from what I understand, the NYPD had Weinstein on tape admitting to harassment and a case ready to prosecute in 2015 but the NY District Attorney ordered them to bury it... after Weinstein conveniently donated to the DA's re-election campaign. Is NY planning to prosecute again?

"Capricious strategy" is right. Trump really pulls it out of his Adderall-riddled ass. And why am I not surprised he was golfing when the bodies were flown home? Why am I not surprised the news outlets are barely talking about it or Mogidishu?

And so the whitewashing and rebranding of TWC begins... Weinstein Company in talks over possible sale: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41641419 What worries me is the momentum dying on this. Other studios, company execs, the media, district effing attorneys were all actively complicit in covering this sh*t up and keeping the omerta going. Look at the way so many actresses have been tarnished with the crazy brush whenever they raised their voices. Look at how Corey Feldman was publicly shamed by Barbara Walters on The View ("You’re damaging an entire industry!”) for talking about pedo rings in HW. Not a peep has been mentioned about prosecuting Weinstein for all these felonies, nor about launching a class action lawsuit on TWC for the cover-up. Now TWC is selling out to a private equity firm and the board of directors will likely by getting a nice payout. Yep. Nicolette's career never recovered. And we all know Victoria Rowell's career didn't either. Sadly Harvey Weinstein is the rule not the exception... Is the impetus to exact meaningful change in Hollywood is there? I hope so...

DOSE LIPS DOE

Thanks @DramatistDreamer. I wasn't sure whether to bring it to this thread because it isn't a domestic-US incident, though it does have huge global repercussions. Shocking that the bomb was so powerful that many victims simply evaporated into thin air when it hit.

THIS. What was Nene expecting? Especially after Kandi had to defend herself of the rape/drugging allegations last year. She took it seriously and frankly so should Nene. She's like so many HWs who feel that one insincere apology absolves them of accountability. Haha well if Rinna has turned on Erika, that will certainly cement my feeling that Rinna will sell out anybody for airtime. That's entertaining up to a point, but it also erodes Rinna's credibility in anything she says and does. At least Kyle and LVP are consistent when it comes to the reasons why they stop being friends with other HWs -- or why they remain loyal to people. I don't know what the argument is about but I feel a bit bad for Erika. Pride goes before a fall, so the saying goes. She puts up a wall and doesn't really trust people; by the same token, her intolerance of 'weakness' (the way she talked about her mother last season, who raised her alone, was shockingly harsh imo) and her lack of a sense of humor, is going to be problematic when it comes to BH where flexibility and a thick skin are required attributes. Nevertheless, I do feel bad that she got burned by Rinna as I do believe Erika actually has feelings. For Rinna, this is just a job.

Tamra, Heather, Shannon were allies with a common goal last season and the season before -- which was to get Vicki off the show. But the season before all that, Heather was telling everybody that Shannon was having a 'psychotic break' and even offered to call for an ambulance to the loony bin at Lizzy's party. Once Heather left, Shannon didn't seem all that sorry that she had gone. Yes, if Heather does return, I want to see the house and the Dubrows living in it! I'm pretty sure Heather's OC job and the opportunities stemming from that (along with Botched on Terry's side) were helping to pay for that monstrosity. In fact, the rumor is that Heather asked for more $$$ to appear this season and Bravo refused. So now Botched is paying for the McMansion with the porte cochére all by its lonesome. Personally I would welcome Heather back if it meant Meghan and maybe 1-2 of the other bores are shown the door.

In hindsight Bravo firing Fancy Pants was a mistake. OC is missing something this season. As evil and nasty as Heather could be, she was also quite smart and incisive, and could be the voice of reason in some situations. Yes, her treatment of Kelly on the bus in Ireland rightfully earned her mega backlash. However, I have a hard time believing that Kelly is the new queen bee. If anything, I have found her segments (at least in the episodes I watched) mostly filler. In Bravo's eyes, Shannon is the queen bee, followed by Tamra. The producers seem to have given up on Vicki. ...which means that Heather could conceivably come back. Andy apparently hates Terry Dubrow, but this season's ratings plunge and the huge problem getting these women to film together works in Heather's favor. I could happily live without ever hearing the words "Brooks" or "cancer" on this show ever again.

@Nothin'ButAttitude @alwaysAMC There is nothing hugely surprising about Tamra's reaction to Shannon, which she has with every female alliance she forms. For me, the most interesting part was Shannon snapping orders at Tamra. Shannon truly let her first season of fame get to her head. She is acting just like Vicki, trying to manipulate and control the narrative. Tamra's power lies in the fact that she lets Shannon believe she is queen bee, and panders to it. Until she is ready to pull the rug from under her. These two will stay thick as thieves for the time being because their hatred of Vicki outweighs their annoyance at not being able to control the other. But Shannon better check out Tamra's IG. Heather is all over it, Tamra's old-new BFF, and Tamra is actively trying to get her back on the show. Shannon cut ties with her when she left, but Tamra didn't. Hmmmm.

Lol you know this is going to trigger Nene to countersue or something. Cigs knows how to push her buttons. Damn, tihis is getting messy fast. If two people start suing each other, this whole season could end up just being Chateau Date-a-felon?? Nobody wants to watch that!

@Nothin'ButAttitude the worst thing about a lawsuit is, because it is pending and takes forever to resolve, entire swathes of RHOA scenes will be left on the cutting room floor so as not to incriminate the interested parties. Gag orders will mean the cast can only talk around the issue at hand, not refer to them directly. See BH season 3. I'm so mad at Kim that she would potentially torpedo a crazy S10 if she goes ahead with this.

I love yours too. With OC, I'm waiting to see what you guys here think of the episode before deciding to watch. I'm sure with the Iceland trip I will be watching. I just meant that the Inquistr is probably going off of other internet reports but is unlikely to get somebody at Bravo on-record to comment. That doesn't mean it's not an issue at Bravo HQ, though. I'm betting Nene's apology was written with the hand help of Bravo legal counsel. The issue is building steam (and is getting reported on E! News). However, Bravo may wait before making a decision, to see if this will die down. Personally, I don't think they would fire Nene before Reunion has even filmed. They need her messy ass on Reunion, and they still have a few weeks of actual show filming left to do. The fact that Kim and Brielle are posting the video on their social media and fuelling the fire makes me think, yeah, Michael Beck gave them the go-ahead. I can't decide if Michael has game, or whether he is doing way too much. Anybody who cosies up to that failed Mattel doll experiment and her thot daughter usually ends up getting burned.

lol yeah I don't know if I mentioned it 1 or 2 thousand times? Haven't seen the Dallas episode yet but will post when I do.

I don't think it's the Washington Post or the Financial Times in terms of fact-checking and going on the record.

I'm a little disappointed that BH's vacation is Berlin. I don't know why, BH feels like a glitzy, sunshiney Monaco/Dubai/Phuket crowd and won't really gel in an avant-garde northern European capital with a grim past. I am also dreading Erika's glam squad going full Liza-Minnelli-in-Cabaret on her. And regarding OC... I haven't watched in some weeks. I feel exhausted by the #cancer/colonics/vasectomy stuff. I do appreciate that people here watch and put down their thoughts regarding the episode. I am using those posts as a guide as to whether to tune in or not. TBH, Iceland cannot come fast enough. Wow. Seeing the text of what she said written down like that makes it so much worse. Nene never learns. Why does she think being vicious or insulting audience members is what people pay to see? She has been like this for years and it makes me sad because Nene was once the heart. I thought the way she called out Porsha on behalf of Kandi in the trailer meant we were going to see a little of that Nene, but clearly she's let the hype go to her head again. Having said that, I am surprised by the news that Bravo wants to fire her when her equally disgusting comments to Claudia a few years ago were completely ignored! Not to put the blame for everything at the new EP's feet but... is Michael Beck cleaning house? Is he doing Kim's bidding so she can return full-time to RHOA without Nene or Kenya to trouble her? Kim is such a lazy-ass and filming for RHOA is arduous work in her mind. Much easier is Don't Be Tardy where she doesn't even have to leave her bed, her wigs or her cigs.