dc11786

I agree. I like Walsh's 1994-1995 run better then her 1992-1993. A lot of 1992-1993 even before Haidee Granger arrives on the scene is very dry and lifeless. I suspect the bigger issue was that the big story, the introduction of the college set, didn't happen until several months into Walsh's run on the show and the other big story, Clay isn't an Alden, wasn't well received. I think the Clay story was actually a recycled plot from "Riveria," the French produced soap filmed in English that Walsh wrote the year before she came to "Loving" the first time. There was a love story between Bradley Cole's American character and the daughter of the wealthy perfume producing family. It turned out they were half-siblings until it was revealed quite towards the end that the daughter was the product of an affair as well. Maybe Walsh wanted to try Shana and Clay? I don't think that would have worked with Larkin Malloy and it would have been a waste of Dennis Parlato's time. I think it was pretty hard to mess up the younger set once Amelia Heinle arrives as Steffi. Only the work of James Harmon Brown & Barbara Essensten seems to lose some of what made Cooper/Steffi/Casey/Ally special even when the actors were able to keep their characters mostly cohesive despite the roulette wheel of producers and writers that the show went through in the final three years. I will say Walsh and Laurie McCarthy write some of the most dramatically compelling scenes that the younger set has during their entire run with Casey's mental health issues leading to self medicating with cocaine, Steffi's parallel journey of self-destruction after Clay has convinced her that Cooper and Deborah bedded down together, and Ally and Cooper having to make hard decisions when Tyler accidentally comes into contact with the drugs that Casey had in his camera bag.

I believe an additional issue for Pamela was that the Dobsons had to fight to get her on the air. In an SOD article, the Dobsons talked about how they had wanted to introduce Pamela much earlier in the story, but the powers that be didn't want another older character on the canvas. I imagine its why you get a drive by of Grant Capwell in 1986 rather than a truly epic showdown that should have drawn Pamela back into the mix. Robin Strasser stated at some point in the 1980s that the Dobsons wanted her for a role on "Santa Barbara." I believe the general presumption has been that this role was Pamela Capwell.

At one point, Walsh quit prior to her ousting. Shortly after he came on (summer 1992), Paul Anthony Stewart stated the show had no headwriter and that Granger was acting as defacto headwriter. 1992 is a mess so I wouldn't be surprised. Addie Walsh and Haidee Granger clashed; it sounds like Granger clashed with a lot of people. Anyway, I suspect Walsh was upset because Granger changed her story plans for Cooper Alden, which involved him being sexually assaulted by his nanny. In Granger's sanitized version, it was described as a seduction by a twelve or thirteen year old Cooper of Selina Walker, the nanny. When Walsh returns in 1994, she has a rather big confrontation between Stephanie and Cooper over Stephanie's precarious health (her eating disorder was ramping up again). As Cooper discussed his own feelings, Steffi directly asks Cooper if he was molested, and Cooper confirms it. It would seem most likely that Walsh's bible was used for the 2nd half of 1992 whether or not she was present or not.

Was researching "Road of Life" and came across another actress playing Mama Bauer around March, 1949... Martha Wentworth.

According to his partner, Dominic Procaccino, Schnessel was diagnoses with AIDS in 1988. I imagine that may have also played a role in the end of his run on "One Life to Live." Here is a link to Procaccino's interview for the Not Another Second Project where he speaks a little about his life with Schnessel. Procaccino passed last year. https://www.notanothersecond.com/stories/nick/

Thanks. In considering what was said upthread about how it was harder to ground some of the 80s characters into the more modern world, maybe Labine felt similarly about Sean and Tiffany. While I find Tiffany's descent into self-destruction fascinating, I could see where others find it heavy. In reviewing the summaries, there were some lighter moments (they had several girlfriend-type meetings between Holly and Tiffany), but not enough to lessen the tone of the overall plot. I could see it all just being too much and dumping Tiffany and Sean. I think Jessica was worth salvaging long enough to let her have the baby, but her long term potential was most likely limited. What I enjoy about the pre-Labine Riche era is the level of connectivity between the cavas. I know some of those characters aren't the most beloved (Julia, Jenny, Paul, Nikki, Eric, Jessica), but they all seem to play a part and fit with the environment the show is developing. I don't think people would have liked Jessica as Jessie's grandniece, but I thought the closeness in names and the same last name as Jessie's former love would be too much to pass up. Hindsight provides different outlooks. In watching 1990, knowing what happens in 1991, Robert and Anna reuniting doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. How quickly that occurred would be, but the Anna & Robert thread seems to be something that was being delayed for some reason. The original set up of the Lucas story with Cheryl's baby being fathered by either Julian or Robert would seem to keep Anna in that orbit. I would say that it's possible Evan Jerome/Edge Jackson was intended to keep Anna and Robert in the same story as Julian Jerome as the baby's father meant Lucas was an heir to the Jerome money. Also, a rather significant part of the original Cesar storyline in 1990 is the revelation that Sean engineered the break up of Anna and Robert in order to keep Robert's head in the game, which woudl suggest that there would be a potential hurdle removed for Robert and Anna reuniting. Maybe Robert and Anna was never the plan, but there are enough threads that they could have done some easy work and repaired the two. Anna goes through a series of guys in 1990: Julian, fauxDuke, Casey, Shep, and Edge. I think that the Hardy/Palumbo 1991 would have had a messy scenario with Edge/Anna/Shep/Cheryl/Robert and the baby drama. I think given the canvas at the time, settling on Robert and Anna wasn't the worst decision in the world. Most of March, 1992 is available on YouTube. Riche really creates a world that is accomplishing what Monty set out to do by trying to modernize the show and take it out of the 1980s but by emphasizing the hospital and the family connections rather than having characters who simply stated their ethnicities. I think Riche's decision to continue to play what was in place instead of doing a wholesale reset was smart in the long run. The 1992 stories may not have been the stories she is most known for, but it sets the tone for the next few years with Levinson's run and Labine's run.

Given the amount of time spent deconstructing Tiffany, there needed to be significant time reconstructing her, and it's a shame that didn't happen. I think two things should have happened: (1) Jessica Holmes should have fallen into a coma, but survived and (2) Tiffany would have accepted that she needed to find herself before she could commit to a relationship with Sean. When Jessica was in a coma, I would have had Tiffany as the suspect still, only to return and be immediately arrested explaining that she had been in a rehab facility for her addiction and mental health issues. Upon being cleared, Sean would assume that he and Tiffany would reunite, but Tiffany would be hesitant. When they did reunite, while Jessica still lingered on life support, it was due to Sean's promise that they would be a complete family: Tiffany, Sean, and Jessica and Sean's baby. With Jessica written off for dead, Tiffany falls into the trap of obtaining the dream family that had become her focus for the last year. Only for Jessica to awaken from her coma after receiving a visit from her parents: Teddy Holmes and Carol Murray Holmes (very Ron C. of me, I know). Tiffany would build a life on her own allowing Sean and Jessica to raise their child together, while Tiffany built a friendly rivalry with Teddy, who would be in publishing after failing to revive his career as a novelist. In the intervening years, Teddy would have entered journalism and now work as a publisher for the local paper. Teddy, like before, would also be running up debts, but this time he would owe money to the mob. Sonny would use this to have Jessica Holmes not only work for him, but act as his personal spy. When Jessica was leaking information, the PD would assume it was Luke, at first. At first, Jessica would ask Teddy to keep Tiffany distracted as she was not only getting closer to Sean again, but also was doing an expose on Sonny and the mob and feared that Tiffany would learn of her work for Sonny. Teddy would agree when he realized that Tiffany was well off as the owner of the television station and saw it as his chance to make an easy buck. When Jessica learned her father's change of plans, she would be furious. Tiffany would see through Teddy as the con man he was, but loved making Jessica squirm so she played along, not letting Teddy in on that she knew his game. In the meantime, Tiffany would be getting closer to Tony and Lucas after Bobbie and Tony split. Teddy would drug Tiffany to make it look like she was drinking again to keep Tony and Tiffany apart. Tiffany would claim she wasn't drinking. Jessica would also take advantage saying she wants Tiffany away from her child. Teddy would be her sole ally as he continued to drug Tiffany. When Teddy proposes, a disillusioned Tiffany would accept and after a quickie marriage, the two would be together just as Sean discovered the connection between Jessica and Sonny. Sean would soon realize he was too late, but would wish Tiffany her happiness. Teddy would order a hit on his new bride in order to quickly take over her estate. Believing all hope was lost for her and Sean, Jessica would confess that she had encouraged her father to go after Tiffany and had learned (afterwards) that he had drugged Tiffany to discredit her (as well as to kill any credibility if she did learn anything in the expose she was developing on the mob). Sean would punch Teddy and Tiffany would bring her husband to the hospital, unaware that the brakes on her car had been cut by the hitman. Teddy and Tiffany's car would end up crashing leaving Teddy dead, and Tiffany in surgery. Jessica would accuse Sonny of setting up the hit on her father because of his debts, but Sonny looks into it and discovers the truth. Jessica tries to protect her father's memory by letting people believe that the death was caused by the gambling debts. Sean and Tiffany become suspicious and investigate themselves, bringing them closer together while Jessica tries to keep them from revealing how much of a monster her father truly was. As Jessie's grandniece, I'd probably develop a close connection between her and the Hardys with Audrey playing the role of her conscious allowing Audrey to reflect on her own past and the pain that could cause with Jessica becoming close to the now single Tom Hardy as Simone Hardy and Justus Ward grow closer and both Justus and Jessica decide to vie for the same legal position. And on and on...

I can see how the Tiffany/Sean stuff could be depressing. It was very emotionally heavy without any moments of levity, that I seem to recall. Tiffany becomes very hyperfocused in order to make it clear why Sean would stepped out. It's a shame. The other stories at the time could be equally heavy emotionally (Dominique dying, the Jack Kensington/Jenny hearing, A.J.'s return from rehab and quest to learn the truth about Nikki), but those all seemed to strike a better balance. Monty seems to play a rather big part in the course of Lucas' custody. When Palumbo and Hardy are in charge, Lucas is pretty set to be Robert's son. Monty nixes that, goes back to the late Julian Jerome as the daddy, and moves on. It would have been interesting if Tony / Tiffany got close after Tony and Bobbie split. That might have revived Tiffany in a meaningful way. I do think there is something potentially really compelling about a loyalty triangle between Robert / Luke / Sonny starting off with Robert asking Luke to infilitrate the mob in order to take it down, Luke being drawn back into the danger of it all, Luke becoming friendly with Sonny, Luke feeling torn between the two friends, and the inevitability that Robert forces Luke to choose between him and Sonny with Luke choosing Sonny and Robert now being positioned into trying to takedown not just Sonny, but also Luke. Under Labine, that would have been intersting. Under her successors, I'm less intrigued because we all know where the bias would slide. I definitely thought about Guza/Pratt era Robert being outwitted and outplayed by Sonny. I don't think that Rogers would have stayed around long for that. And, given this train of thought, I expect that Damian Smith and Anna would have been at least teased, if not been the new endgame. I had considered this element in a different way. Would they have allowed Robin to contract AIDS if her parents were still in the picture? I imagine so as Labine dispensed with Tony's daughter. I will say, I am sorta glad I wouldn't have to see Robert raging about his daughter's actions the way he would about all the women in his life. I think Hughes would allow Anna to go through all the stages of grief. Now completely letting this speculative GH to continue, Robert learning that his daughter had contracted the virus from Sonny's ward just as Luke was being forced to choose between the two would be explosive. I think someone else was saying this, and I didn't realize the implications. Robert would have never approved of Stone to begin with, but this would just seal the deal. There is also times I wish there had been more time spent on dealing with Stone's dyslexia before leaping forward with the AIDS storyline.

Interesting point about the origins of Luke and Laura in comparison to Felicia and Frisco as well as Robert and Anna. Sean and Tiffany would also fall into this category. I like what Bill Levinson did with the couple in 1993 with Tiffany becoming obsessed with Lucas (which seemed to be not only grounded in her love for her nephew, but guilt she had about her sister's death) and the obsession spiraling into the destruction of her marriage through booze and pills while Sean starting carrying on with Jessica Holmes. I don't know if people generally liked that story, though. It certainly was more grounded than a lot of their other stories, but, as was the case with lots of Levinson's work, there were definitely misogynistic elements. Tiffany and Sean didn't fare too well under Labine. Weren't they mostly backburnered? Now I am curious to think about how the Sonny/Luke friendship would have played out if Robert was still on the canvas. Luke being pulled back into the mob circle after being on the right side of the law would have been more compelling with Robert in the midst. I enjoyed Tony Geary's Bill when he was playing double agent during the tail end of the Cartel stuff I've seen after Bill has killed Harlan and he's trying to explain to Julia. I think that the morally conflicted stuff Geary could do well when he actually allowed the character to be torn. I stand corrected. I thought Rogers left because of Monty, but looking at some articles you appear to be accurate. In November, 1990, Rogers was interviewed about his work on "General Hospital" and in the film "The Rescuers Down Under" where he stated he assumed he would be phased out as he wasn't looking to stay in daytime forever. He also said he had a couple projects. A year later, in December, 1991, when it was announced he would be leaving, Monty stated she had asked him to stay another year, and now the year was up. Rogers stated he had projects he was working on that would conflict with a contract. This is probably why Wendy Riche tried to work something out with him on a recurring basis.

I forget about King, the show's last attempt to try and give Katherine something to do all day but wait for Robert to come back to her. They tried giving her Duke's nightclub and letting her rebrand it Delafield's. Then, they tried the friendly business rivalry/flirtation with Colton; the gym and the club were neighbors and Colton was single between Olivia's death and Carla's arrival. Finally, they gave her King. Poor Chris Babers. Harrison Davis leaves in early November. Michael Watson also "returns" in December after filming some European horror film. Mary outlives Katherine. I think when Mary goes so does her partner-in-crime, Angel. Probably around February-March, 1991. I don't think they are around when the Outback opens. I feel like Olin is around until the edge of Wendy Riche. I think she is replaced by Noriko, who may be a relation. Or I might be confusing Olin/Noriko with the Jennings/Reginald situation. The issue was she also didn't want it to be 1980. She wanted this "General Hospital"/ "Eastenders" hybrid. I'll agree that Rogers and Hughes definitely depart because of Monty. I feel like Emma Samms is brought back specifically to fill the space that Anna leaves, except that Scorpio isn't around long enough for that even to become a thing. The overlap does occur as a result of the Riche's attempts to get Rogers and Hughes to stay even after they announced their departures. Finally, once Norma Monty is out the door, it is announced at the end of March, 1992, that Anna and Robert have been presumed dead in the boat explosion. Karen may have already been introduced; she was a part of the VolunTeens program at GH. Jagger is definitely introduced after when his crew plans to rob Kelly's after Ruby refuses to serve them beer. Reflecting now, I do wonder about how the transition would have worked in 1991 with Wendy Riche. Riche doesn't dump the cast. She keeps most around long enough for the writers to figure out what to do with them. I'm curious if Felicia & Frisco and Robert & Anna could have functioned in Riche's Port Charles. I don't know if either male actor would be interested in that vision of "General Hospital." Finola Hughes would have shined as Kristina Wagner did when she returned. I came across the tidbit in a soap column in the newspapers when I was trying to figure out when Gloria Monty was announced as executive producer at "General Hospital." The "Santa Barbara" rumor was about a week or two before the announcement Monty was back at GH and it was in a column discussing the situation with "Santa Barbara" so I don't know about "All My Children."

I think there were also rumblings about the cast unrest during Joe Hardy's run. Hardy also seems to have the same directive that Monty had by mining the show's history in his final months and grounding the typical over the top serial into a more recognizable world. There was a drop around the time of the Casey the Alien tale, but every show drops around half a point that week so I am wondering if there wasn't a change in the Nielsen point value that week. They were trying to write a wrong, but it only made it worse. There were better off just killing off Fred Eckert, dropping Carol Lawrence to recurring, and dumping Joey at the end of the summer after having him and A.J. fight over some girl. Dumping everyone at once only turned more people off because every time you tuned in it was new stories and new faces. They might have been able to survive one, but not both. I think the last spike is October, 1993, when Luke and Laura return, but that only gets the show to a 6.6. Once "General Hospital" falls into the tier 3 range with the shows that are all in half a point of each other it is hard for it to remain a solid #3, though it manages to do it on occasion. There wasn't much storytelling though in the early Eckert days. Or I should say there is very little to emotionally invest in. It didn't matter that the characters were mentioning their ethnic backgrounds or referenced things in the real-world. The lack of sensible storytelling is what kills the show's momentum, which is what I think you were probably alluding too on top of what you had already said. When Riche arrived, she was also better at stopping the bleeding of the cast turnover. After Lucy's departure, the cast seems more stable, which helps guide the show into the first two years of Riche before Labine's arrival. While I enjoy 1992, the ratings look terrible. It doesn't help that it is just solidly stuck in the middle of that group of 5 to 6 shows that are all super close and it now tends to trail. If Riche had been hired in December, 1990, I am not sure how things would have worked out. By the time Riche arrived, Linda Gottlieb was doing what she was doing at "One Life to Live" and Fran Sears manage to eek out a little bit of critical support for things like the Matthew Ford story. On the otherhand, late run Palumbo/Hardy has transitioned to a much mellower show so I think it could have been fine. Joe Hardy inherited a number 2 show and it stayed a number 2 show. If it occasionally was listed as 3, it was because it had the same rating as another show but a smaller share. What Hardy and Palumbo did allow to happen was that "General Hospital" had a solid 1.0 point gap between itself and #3. They weren't increasing the numbers which tended to dip or stay relatively steady, while other shows rose. So ratings really weren't the issue in terms of dropping from #1 to #8. Monty needed to energize the show, which had a decent core, but no excitement. The stories she inherited weren't generating the energy that the show typically had. The storytelling fluctuated, but the cast had remained fairly stable in terms of the core. Robert O'Bryne died on June 18, 1991, of a heart attack.

Monty is still credited as EP for January 31, 1992 episode, which is the last one in my collection from that period. I know on YouTube episodes, Wendy Riche is credited on the February 14, 1992, episode. This is where the cast deflections start to ramp up, but it really isn't felt that much in the story because the story is shifting already. The decision to beef up the Quartermaine clan again was smart. Edward's back from the dead story is brief, but it is symbolic of what the show will be rebuilding. Jason vs. A.J. is in the works from the beginning, although maybe not in the same form as it would later be. Eric Simpson's arrival is actually in your second Wave, the week of August 5-9, the latest. Simpson treated Dominique and Mac when they were in the hospital. He may have appeared slightly earlier as the Monty era secondary characters seem to emerge from the shadows at various points. Susan Hornsby is more forgotten than written out. I'm not even sure she was a constant present in Paul's life as her primary residence, I believe, was with Paul's parents. Monty's swan song days are stronger. She also brings back some of her old school background players. Slick Jones appears around the holidays for the festivities. Delfina is involved with the wedding preparations for Ned and Jenny's wedding. Monty finally seemed to find her groove after scorching the earth. Lucy's departure is all on Riche. I'd say the same for David Langton's as well. Langton's death is incredibly sudden and written when there is no headwriter. Also, the third wave sees the arrival of Linda Grover as Norma Monty's fellow headwriter. Grover quickly departs in mid-to-late Februrary under Riche.

If you watch episodes from January, 1991, and from March, 1991, it was a completely different show. Not only were there a lot of new characters, anyone who stayed was in the backburner for the most part. The show started the year back in the 7s as it had the previous year and spiked with a 7.6 when Tony Geary returns as a new character. By April, the show is starting to hit 5.9, but mostly staying in the lower part of the 6s. "All My Children" overtakes it in the spring at various points which is probably another reason that Monty wanted to make changes. Jack Wagner leaving makes sense as Mac was starting to get a lot of the Frisco comical crime fighting stuff. Simone returning was smart. Stephanie E. Williams shouldn't have been let go to begin with. I think with Simone's return and the arrival of an adult A.J. the show was starting to move into a better direction. Joey Moscini is shipped off to college in June if I recall correctly. There are just some really wild choices. Connor initially is introduced as a spoiler for the new pairing of Dominique/Mac even though Dominique already has a husband. I thought Cesar was even worse than Casey the alien so bringing him back just seems insane to me, but I know that Faison seems to be well liked among long time fans. Also out during the second wave would be Gene Palumbo, who had been head writing the show since May, 1989. Norma Monty and John Whepley were writing with him in 1991 under Gloria Monty.

Thanks for the list. I think Edie Lehman was pre-Monty. Katherine wasn't working. I am at the end of October, 1990. With Cheryl back, her days were numbered. Monty had no use for Cheryl so I don't think Katherine was a casualty of Monty. She would have been. Broxton was played by Norman Snow in this time period. Carla and Frankie both depart the same day as Colton and Charlene, February 26. This might be Robert Fortinero, Jr.'s only appearance in 1991 as he is rarely used once Monty appeared from what I saw earlier this year. I would move Nurse Sheila Contillion (Stacey Morez) up to the first round of new hires. She is appearing as early as March (if not February, I will update when I get there again in my viewing). She essentially replaces Dawn at the nurses' station. Joey Moscini is also around in February as he was on the S.S. Tracy as well. There are a lot of new recurring characters who seem like they are going to be more. There were a pair of siblings, Carol and Patrick Pulaski, who were friendly with the Eckerts. Carol was a love interest for Bill and Patrick seemed poised as the loser in love who would be Jenny's second tier love interest to the more exciting lead. Patrick worked as a mannequin dresser at Wyndham's. Carol was someone's secretary, I believe. Mac ended up doing community service at a center with a bunch of kooky types, but they may have arrived in the time of your second wave. Monty dumped all the characters who had been introduced since she left in 1987 (or was it 1986?). Also, no one in that first rounded who was added was returning. Herring was only returning from her maternity leave. Some rumor and context from the papers of the time: Monty was living in the Portland, Oregon, area prior to her return. She was looking to develop a production facility and launch a new soap opera from this new venture. I imagine many of the ideas for the new soap were lifted for the Eckerts. Also, prior to the announcement that Monty was returning to "General Hospital," there were rumors she was in talks to take over as EP at timeslot rival, "Santa Barbara." Also, wasn't "Guiding Light" under a creative resurgence by going the route of more realistic, emotional tales rather than the over the top insanity that had been so much of daytime throughout the 1980s?

To be frank, i don´t take too much seriously from the man who made Ava Jerome the daughter of Delia. I also don´t think AU would have closed overnight. Enrollment may have dropped (most likely temporarily as no one cared when the co-ed prostitutes were murdered in the 1980s), but I would be hard pressed to see the decline from the murders alone. Maybe if AE also relocated because there wasn´t a single Alden in Corinth than that might make some of the decline make sense. With that said, I'd play a variation of that in the revival. It was never going to happen, but the perfect time for a ¨Loving¨ revival would have been 2020-2021 when COVID was driving people out of New York City into the less crowded suburban areas where some ambitious property developer saw Corinth as an opportunity to provide an oasis from the chaos going on in the world around them. The old AU factory could be turned into lofts or some other repurposed hipster attracting spot like a microbrewery. I believe some affiliates started airing in a late night time slot before the cancellation and that ABC may have been monitoring the situation to see if it was successful. I don´t think the found family concept alone was feasible. To highlight my point, I´ve seen bits of both ¨Tribes¨ and ¨Swan´s Crossing.¨ Both geared to a much younger audience than ¨The City,¨ but both operating in a sense outside the lines of the traditional soap format by shifting the show completely onto the lives of characters under 18 years old. SC only featured the young characters in contract roles and emphasised on the romantic complications of the characters with some action and adventure thrown in. TRIBES on the other hand offered up a tight, found family group of young leads with their fully developed parents in a supporting role. I find TRIBES more effective of the two as a result. Even ¨Edge of Night¨ had traditional family structures mixed amid the created family of law enforcement. The created family could have been central, but peripheral families should have been weaved in and out. The Roberts family drama comes off as mostly exploitation because of the underdeveloped parents. Azure C.´s brother and mother were featured in her story, but her story would have been deeper if the two characters had been developed beyond a short term dayplayer. The Soleitos appeared on occasion, but it might have been worth exploring that a little further.

Ally would have been a harder sell for me because the relationship with Gwyn wasn´t there. Gwyn´s pain came from her daughter´s abandonment. To have her surrogate daughter be the one to relieve her pain brought the story full circle. Gwyn was not alone at the time of her death, which is something that Gwyn had suffered from a lot after Trisha´s presumed death. Furthermore, Steffi´s character had historically (in all variations under the four sets of headwriters in the time Steffi appeared) had been the morally gray character. While Steffi and Ally both had complicated relationships with their parents, Steffi´s tended to be more raw as Ally seemed to come to terms with her parents divorce, while Steffi had in recent years been pimped out by her own mother to Clay in order to secure financial stability and recalled the reason for her father´s absence from her life was that Deborah had insinuated that Malcolm and Steffi´s relationship was also sexual in nature (the larger implication was that Deborah saw Steffi as a romantic rival even in terms of her own father). The Gwyn / Steffi dynamic was intriguing because even though Gwyn did have feelings for Clay she never saw Steffi as a threat. She was kind to Steffi and it was Steffiś insecurities that led her to want to be more like Gwyn. Steffi´s career path would naturally lead to New York City so her departure didn´t really need much of a push. The ad agency setting up shop in Soho was enough reason for most of the departures as well as the fact many of the old guard characters (Alex, Tess, Buck, Ally, Angie, Jacob, Frankie) weren´t native Corinithians. Though I could see why the writers wanted a grander reason for this, but even in that case, that isn´t a thread that is followed into the City. The characters are shocked by the dead body in the carpet, but it doesn´t lead to any deeper conversations about how they cannot run from their problems or how safety and security are things you create not things you find. With all that said, Steffi should have stayed in Corinth. Even ignoring the fact that the chance of Heinle renewing her contract was unrealistic, Heinle´s pregnancy would have created a need for Steffi to be off the canvas for at least a month fairly early in the show´s run. They would have been better off trying to convince Heinle to go on an extended maternity leave (which she might not have agreed to) and had her make up the time later in the spring after her child was born and brought Steffi in as a brief spoiler for Tony/Ally before wrapping up her story for good. The pregnancy was a necessity because there was no way to hide Heinle´s pregnancy. Though, given the fact that Steffi had a recurring bouts of binging and purging, Steffi´s pregnancy should have been a bigger complication in her story than simply a road to eventually reunite Cooper and Steffi. Destroying the ties to Cooper´s family while Cooper was still alive is a bit of a stretch. If that was the case, Cooper should have been killed off. He had hurt Steffi as much, if not more, than Tess had. While I appreciate a lot of the passion for this plot, I think we also need to recognize some of the inherent flaws here. None of the people murdered were young. The victims were expendable because production wanted a younger image for their aging product. Older contract cast members were offed in a ploy to shock the audience and present a revamped version of the show that focused on ¨the families you create¨ because they didn´t want a lot of older cast members. The fact that Steffi and Ally had children was reflective of a bigger problem the show had: the characters´ stories were rarely reflective of their lived experiences. From a revamp standpoint, you don´t want the baggage, but even the stories themselves are often ageless. Angie and Jacob´s desire to have a child isn´t complicated by the fact that this need was already met for Angie (she had her son) or even by the possibility that Jacob was looking to replace the child he had lost in the shooting years earlier. It was mostly a tale for a newlywed couple in order to insert an old interloper (Lorraine) into the story as a catalyst for conflict. The age difference between Jocelyn and Alex (which was most likely not as bad in story because I think LLC is playing a character significantly older than herself) should have spurred a period of separation after it came out that Jocelyn had been pimped out to older men by her father and she was now involved with DILF Alex Masters. Your emphasis on the disrupted culture makes me consider what the actual result of Corinth would be post-Gwyn´s reign of terror. Does Alden University continue to be a thing? If so, is it renamed? And were the Aldens endowing significant amounts of money to the university? How would this change with the Corinth based Aldens being massacred? I also wonder if the physical construction of ¨The City¨ (i.e. sets) played any role in the killings. With most of the Aldens dead by August, the show no longer has to feature the mansion and they can start to repurpose it for Sydney´s loft.

¨The City¨ was obviously intended to have a younger crowd. I always assumed that characters like Tony and Richard were introduced with the intention of being setup for the new series. I wonder if a smaller set of people moving forward would have been more effective. Buck has very little story in the material I´ve seen. Tess´ arc in the spring/early summer of 1996 is her attempt to develop herself as a major powerbroker in the City with some tutelage from Jared Chase, which is suppose to escalate the rivalry with Sydney. After Jared rapes Sydney, Tess´ closeness to Jared provides a serious professional moral crisis for Angie, who treated Sydney after her assault. In some May, 1996 episodes I´ve seen, the comatose young woman that Sydney goes to visit and confess her secrets, Lauren, the daughter of her chaffeur, Samuel, begins to show signs of waking up. I suspect there may have been plans to pair Lauren with Frankie because both Lauren and Frankie were dropped around the same time. I do wonder if Noelle Beck´s refusal to be the killer had any impact on the ending of the story, but not in the sense of Trisha being the killer. I think Trisha putting Gwyn out of her pain at the end, rather than Steffi, would have been a very logical conclusion to the story. With that said, Heinle delivers a dynamite performance and holds her own with Tudor Newman in those sequences, but I cannot help but think about Trisha being the one to relieve Gwyn of the pain that resulted from Trisha´s absence.

I think the ¨Proud and the Passionate¨ story would have worked better with Kim involved alongside Barbara Wilde. Kim being cast by the new writers on P&P to bring in the younger viewers, which leaves Barbara in a desperate position. Barbara and Kim´s rivalry could have been escalated by Seneca´s position on the show as a consultant and Barbara could try to out Kim Kim by making a play for Seneca. None of this really works with Arley in the picture, but I think it would have been fun to see Kim go from theatre to daytime. I wonder if Ellen Barber´s 1981 role was essentially what was planned for Kim when the story was originally in development pre-strike. Doesn´t Kristen depart the first time after Delia´s breakdown? Edwards had the chance to play the reformed version of the character. Kristen is competent, but it would have been interesting to see how she handled the character given the evolution she had undergone during her absence. I would love to see more of 1982. I think the Kirkland takeover is really much shorter than people credit it (December 1982-February 1983) as most of the synopses before seem pretty balanced with other stories as well. Catsy doesn´t arrive in New York City until December, and that´s when it seems that the domination is very clear. I enjoy Mary Ryan Munisteri´s work on ¨Loving" in late 1991 and her work with Trent Jones headwriting the shortlived ¨Tribes.¨ I haven´t seen much of her stint on ¨Guiding Light,¨ but I know the general opinion is it wasn´t good. A soap rumor I read years ago was that the show had intended to pair Matthew and Maeve in order to keep Bernie Barrow in line (I can´t remember what was going on, but they wanted to make it clear that if Johnny wasn´t on the canvas Maeve would move on). I don´t know if that really played out onscreen though. The tonal shift between 1975 and 1976 is very jarring and I enjoy the starkness of those early episodes when characters were more rough around the edges before the writing seems more slanted towards presenting the Ryans as this perfect family. I do know Frank´s survival ultimately required a lot of shifting, but the shifts occurred in places that weren´t as connected to the Frank change as well. I liked the more neurotic Faith that Faith Catlin was written as. I know Catherine Hicks is well regarded, but her Faith always comes off as very generic. I occassionally have to remind myself that the episodes on SoapNet aired at 2 episodes a day which definitely impacts how I perceive pacing so I will say that´s something I don´t always pick up on. I think part of the issue is that the show´ś excursion tales is they didn´t always have much long term impact. Interesting thoughts regarding the potential exploitation of the popularity of ¨Cheers." I would offer up that the show seems to do this not with Ryan´s, but with Greenberg´s Deli under Pat Falken Smith. I remember some regulars in the 1975 episodes (or at least one guy) but he was very underdeveloped. It would have leant to the extended family idea well.

Not a longtime fan by any stretch, but have been dipping in and out of different times in the 1990-1995 era. I enjoy parts of the Ned / Jenny / Paul / Tracy quad, but I can really watch anything from 1992-1993 and find some things to enjoy. Ned and Jenny are clearly a redo of Ned / Dawn, but slightly more effective because Wally Kurth only has to try and create chemistry with Cheryl Richardson while Kurt McKinney had to try to make it work with the four Dawns in less than two years. I think when Jenny and Ned are together, and happy, while Paul lusts for Jenny, and Tracy is pregnant with Dillon is solid. Watching Tracy who has gotten everything she has wanted for most of her life not know what to do to get Paul was fun for me to watch, but I can see how others wouldn´t like Tracy being in a position that makes her look desperate. I liked see another side to Tracy. That period (1992-1993) is very interesting because while the story isn´t always the strongest, a lot of the moments between characters evoke strong emotions and play on history. I find little moments to love. Once Paul and Jenny get together, there part of the story isn´t my favorite. Paul tends to be a bit of a deadend. Satterfield was more effective on ¨Savannah¨ in a swarmy role, which may have benefitted Paul. Richardson can be charming when they allow Jenny to show intelligence and spunk. When she gives as good as she gets, I find Jenny highly enjoyable. The umbrella story involving the sentorial hearings regarding Jenny´s affair with Senator Kensington ties a bunch of splintering groups together. Tracy and Marco Dane are great together. Julia and Ned are a surprisingly effective B-couple (maybe B is generous though I remain they function well for story purposes), but theirs is a doomed relationship because Ned carries a torch for Jenny. The business stuff between Paul, Bill, Ned, and Julia in early 1992 seems to work to move the story along, but it´s nothing that I would cry about if I hadn´t seen. I would try it out yourself and see if you like it. I don´t think they get the full angsty love montage music sequences set to then current pop hits like Jagger and Karen, but the story definitely has some strong emotional beats among some stretches of boredom.

I hadn´t considered that. I like near a smaller size city and briefly hung out a neighborhood bar so I got that kind of vibe. I do think the show always felt more vibrant though when they explored the other aspects of the city (Kimberly´s attempts to become a Broadway star, Delia purchasing the Crystal Palace, the mobsters out in Sheepshead Bayy), while I also recognize that a lot of those ¨excursion¨ type stories, for lack of a better term, may not have been what most people wanted. I´ve only purchased the book yesterday and read some parts a few days back on Google books (it is a limited preview). Ana Alicia´s comment were disappointing, but not surprising. In thinking about how the show was developed, with Mayer and Labine writing intense backstories for those key characters, I can see why they were key to keep those core. With that said, they could have revisited whatever they had in mind for the Ramona Gonzalez character who never had anything to do. I think the narrowness in the setting though played into the narrowness in the story. Not only were the Ryans and Coleridges sleeping with each other, they were all working together as well. If they had expanded their worlds a bit career wise, it would have provided more opportunity for story. Those early days are heavy on the intense emotional family drama from all the interconnections, but often the career elements weren´t always utilized to their full potential. With that said, they could have had the characters in different careers and it would still have been narrow if they didn´t actively work to expand the canvas. I really enjoy 1980-1981 becasue it seems to try and attempt to balance the more brazen storytelling of Labine and Mayer from earlier in their careers (¨Where the Heart Is" and ¨Love of Life¨) with strong domestic drama they had come to be known for during ¨Ryan´s Hope.¨ In reflecting on 1981, I can definitely see how the show pushed some of the core characters to the edge while the elements ABC wanted (Joe/Siobhan, Michael/Kim/Rae) eclipsed what the show had been about from the beginning. I haven´t rewatched the show from the beginning in many years, but my teenage self, on the first go around on SoapNet, loved the first seven months, and then struggled to maintain consistent interest in the next couple of years that followed. I became much more interested around late 1979 when Faith started boozing and Kim decided to pursue Seneca and so on. It was probably the third viewing before I ¨got¨ why people thought Mary and Jack were so special. I felt that first year presented some very raw characters that had their edges shaved down over the years in order to present an idealized version of the Ryan clan. I felt some of that edge came back in the early 1980s, but not with the characters it probably should have. I was very pleased that the recently published book mentioned how unlikeable people were allowed to be, but I struggled because of the lack of consistent accountability by the family for their own. I think Jack and Jill would have been interesting as well. I just have to wonder how well Michael Levin and Nancy Addison Altman would have done with each other given that they both seem like such strong personalities.

December 1984 would have seen three key storylines playing out: (1) Warren Carter, who had been sent to prison earlier in the year, was presumed dead in a prison fire back in October. With the help of photographer Brett Hamilton, III, Warren was hiding out in Henderson and was gaslighting his ex-wife, Suzi Wyatt, in order to get her hospitalized with the intention of taking their son, Jonah, and starting a new life. Around November/December, Wendy Wilkin, Warren´s other (ex?) wife, learns he is alive and has resumed their affair. Brett shared a romantic past with Justine Calvert, a McCleary family friend who had set out to snare Cagney McCleary away from Suzi for herself. Suzi, under the duress of the gaslighting, publicly attacks Justine verbally for all the games she has been playing in order to get Cagney. This all leads to a murder mystery party that ends with the bullets in the prop gun being replaced with real bullets. (2) T.R., the runaway that had been fostered by Travis and Liza Sentell, discovered that she was actually Rebecca Kendall, the long lost daughter of Lloyd and his absent ex-wife Estelle. T.R. doesn´t want to be a Kendall and desperately wants to push forward her adoption so that no one can separate her from the woman she has come to love as a mother. Meanwhile, Lloyd has begun to put the pieces together and suspects that T.R. might be his daughter because his son Chase shares with Lloyd a french lullaby that T.R. knows that Lloyd´s mother made up. In the meantime, Liza has become involved with Kentucky Bluebird, an airplane engineer. Liza and Kentucky worked together to oust Cord Tourneur, the mentally disturbed cousin of the late Travis, from his position at Tourneur Instruments. Now, Kentucky and Liza are in limbo or are about to start a minor plot involving Kentucky having a heart ailment. Will Patton, who played Col. Bluebird, refused to sign a contract and, as a result, was not always available. (3)The love triangle between the Kendall boys Chase and Alec and the innocent Adair McCleary is stalled because Adair has left town (Page Hannah was let go in November and Susan Carey Lamm doesn´t arrive until February). There is some angst because Chase and Adair, believing Alec to be dead after the sea vessel he was on was destroyed in a storm, went to bed together. When Alec returned from the dead, in early November, both were shocked. An emotional Adair leaves town to sort out her feelings, but more than likely she was picking up on the intense sexual tension between Alec and Chase and decided she didn´t want to be the third wheel in their staging of a queer ¨Flowers in the Attic¨ story. By December, there is a lot of chemistry testing for both Alec and Chase. Chase confides in Justine, Adair´s best friend, as well as having some scenes with Wendy, who he was paired with earlier. Stephanie deduces that Wendy has a secret man, and believes it is Alec, which Wendy goes along with since her secret man is in fact her not so dead husband Warren, who should be in prison. Ultimately, it is Chase and Alec who should be endgame. Out of curiousity, are you referring to physicality, performance, or both? I´ve been watching Cheatham in her 1990 run on ¨General Hospital¨ as Aunt Charlene and while Charlene has edges that Stephanie did, there are certainly differences that show Cheatham can play different types. By the 1980s, Cheatham definitely leans into the over the type, broad style, but I think that she (like Robin Strasser) showed earlier in her career she could play a more restrained character, and I could see her embodying Alex if she cultivated the right persona. I will concur that Miss Sally was more the type that Cheatham seemed to be most interested in playing by that point in her career. Martin leaves in May 1984 when there is a cast purge by Ellen Barrett about six months into her run as producer. Martin leaves to operate a club in the Caribbean. He later returns in a recurring capacity later in 1984. When Warren Carter has escaped prison, Carter begins to target all his enemies including his former business partner, Martin. Carter arranges for Martin´s club down in the islands to be torched forcing Martin to leave Henderson to deal with wreckage in October, 1984. A year later, there is a story about how Martin has gone missing in San Marcos (where his former lover Estelle Kendall has been hiding out for years). Jo goes down to the island to find out more information, but comes up empty handed. Eventually, Jo gets communication from Martin saying he is alright and hiding out in Europe and that if she wanted to get in contact with him she should do so through Justin Marshall of World Oil through their Paris operation. It was a nice little Easter egg for the NBC/P&G soap fans. I suspect Gary Tomlin wanted to bring Martin back into the story in his 1985/1986 run by the change over in producers, or the simple reluctance of NBC to have many players over the age of forty on the canvas, prevented Martin´s return. Steve comes back on contract for about a month alongside Estelle. Tomlin´s 1985-1986 run (from what I´ve seen) has a lot of stops and starts so it´s hard to tell where anything was going.

First, I agree. Nice job, @Kane. I don´t share the enthusiasm for the storyline, but I appreciate the passion and dedication to details. Kudos! There are times I wonder when choices were made. I´ve seen a bit of ¨The City¨ in the past year and there are times where minor details are puklled together to create a cohesive tale, and, often, they are so minute that it highly unlikely that it was planned in advance. For example, was the intention always to have Gwyn dressed as Trisha or was that a later development? I felt a lot of the comments ¨Trisha might look different¨ was in case the show couldn´t secure Noelle Beck for the final plot because it was hard to tell that story without Trisha appearing at one point. Your points though may be more valid. Similarly, I think the white suit stuff seemed to be an attempt to just make it clear that the mystery woman was easy to pick out... I remember thinking it was stupid that the ¨Trisha¨ at Dunellyn was not the same figure as Gwyneth. In terms of the POV, would Gwyneth be walking around in her Trisha getup while this was happening? Because Gwyneth´s final speech makes it clear that there was a part of her that was unaware that she was the killer. Regarding the failed momentum, I think this is the bigger issue I have. The destruction of Corinth was more engaging than the construction of ¨The City,¨ which is highly problematic. There was no story to carry over, and that was probably by design because TPTB wanted the premier to be an easy access point for new eyes that tuned in for the start of a new show. I can´t share the appreciation of the boldness. When ¨Days of our Lives" got rid of a large chunk of their long term cast in 1980, it was called a massacre and deemed a mistake. Maybe if there was more focus on the emotional fallout of all the death I could appreciate it more, but I find it an emotiionally hollow story that has moments of strong acting and script writing. Ultimately, the murders didn´t do anything for the ¨The City¨ because when you torch the whole canvas, and the carnage is cleared, all that was left was a whole lot of nothing ... which is a terrible foundation for a new series. The Medea references were intriguing. I would add that Trisha´s miscarriage also could play into that idea. I believe ¨Crystal¨ had an offscreen miscarriage which led to Trisha to explore her past. I don´t think that Gwyn caused the miscarriage, but it would have been interesting to consider what role that could play. I was surprised about Ewing until I realized he was the only one of the lot that didn continue onto ¨The City" so they had to use up his guarnatees.

I was surprised in 2002/2003 when Soap Opera Digest covered the Michael / Kim / Rae story with a featured article giving the same impression that this was a very big story for the show. In retrospect, it is more likely that it was considered a big story because Michael was murdered during the summer of 1981 when ABC daytime was exploding because of Luke and Laura and ¨General Hospital¨ in general. Personally, I enjoy Kim´s stories because things happen when she was on. Her moral code is very different than most of the other characters which makes her more intersting to me. I also think the Kim / Seneca / Rae / Michael story is a bit of a variation on both the Mary / Julian / Liz / Michael story Labine & Mayer wrote on ¨Where the Heart Is¨ and the Meg / Rick / Cal story from ¨Love of Life." I´m not sure Michael had the potential to be a longterm character. That whole grouping (Rae / Kim / Michael / Seneca) plays in such a bubble that the whole lot seemed to be limited in their story opportunities. Corbett ends up at ¨Search for Tomorrow¨ in late spring/early summer 1982. So there was more than enough time from his departure from ¨Ryan´s Hope¨ and his arrival on SFT to bring him back. Kelli Maroney gets a quick September, 1981, departure at the end of the Writer´s Strike upon Labine and Mayer´s return and she´s back by March, 1982, probably at ABC´s insistence. I think there may have been more issues about the existence of Arley in the mind of Labine and Mayer because it forced them to play that story and they probably didn´t want to or at least not explore that at that time. I think the show´s peak ratings were in August, 1981, when Kim gave into labor on the houseboat after either shooting the drunk vagrant (who I think was played by Robert Pasorelli) or being shot by him. I believe the source of this information was a poster on danfling´s board who claimed she had interned for Claire Labine on ¨Ryan´s Hope" in the early 1980s or late 1970s. She also claimed that Rae´s surname was originally Whitney, but that ABC had insisted on a change because of the Whitney clan on ¨Edge of Night." Several yars later, I remember SoapNet´s online episode summary listed Rae as Rae Whitney in the episode summaries, which I suspected might have been based on scripts. Or it was just a wild coincidence. In thinking of the origin of ¨Ryan´s Hope," one of the things thhat I haven´t really seen discussed much is the impact of the original ABC idea for the series: a show set in a hospital. While dismissing the original Frank dies story was a problem, I think the adherence to the hospital based drama was also ineffective because there just doesn´t seem an intense interest from Labine and Mayer to tell that kind of show, which is interesting when you consider Labine´s 1990s run on ¨General Hospital.¨ The medical group was easily the group that faded into the woodwork in terms of the original cast and story with Ramona being the first one dropped, Clem never having a story of his own (his shining moment seems to be the hospital strike), Bucky becomes a supporting part after Reenie is dropped, and Nell and Ed die. I would have been interested to see how the show would have been shaped if there hadn´t been an insistence on a hopsital drama element. Bibles do not necessarily translate into what happens onscreen. Also, there may be versions of a a bible. I know that Labine had stated that the ¨Ryan´s Hope¨ bible included 100 years of the Ryan family history prior to what played out onscreen. As the show evolved, there may have been a bible for ¨A Rage to Love¨ and one for ¨Ryan´s Hope" even though they ultimately are the same thing. Onscreen, Jack and Jill had shared a romantic past prior to July, 1975. This wasn´t addressed much, but it did seem like that the show would consider pairing Jack and Jill again at some point. There was also the abandoned Roger / Mary pairing that seemed to be in the stages early on. It may not have been the kind of shows they had wanted to write, but it is the kind of stories that got them hired. Labine and Mayer´s earlier work on ¨Where the Heart Is" and ¨Love of Life¨ sounds much more energized and much more creative than the material in the early years of ¨Ryan´s Hope.¨ I don´t think that ABC thought they would be buying a show where an entire flashback would be spent with a drunken Michael Hawkins explaining to Helen Gallagher about how he bought her lineloum. The early days of the RH still maintain a bit of the psycho-sexual undertones that the writers had embedded into their earlier work. I find the first six months fascinating as it goes in such a different direction than the next couple years with Pat advising Bucky to avoid Faith because she was frigid, to Faith recalling a distrastous affair with her older professor (this may have been the revision to the Faith/Jack romance), and Maeve telling Jill she would never accept her as Frank´s wife because Frank had married Delia first. The first few years is definitely strong writing, but it´s just not my favorite period. I enjoyed Nell´s right to live her final days on her terms. I thought that was beautiful especially when Maeve bluntly told Johnny, who had been disparaging Seneca for removing Nell from life support, that she hoped he would do the same for her. I think Delia´s Chinese cooking lessons affair with Roger and her later faking her pregnancy with Pat was fun. Nothing is more enjoyable for me as Ilene Kristen as Delia calling Alicia Nieves and doing her best Mary Ryan impression trying to get details out of Alicia about how to fake a her miscarriage by asking how to prove someone was faking. Another gem is Frances Foster (I think she was in the role at that point) as Miriam telling Jack that she hits Ryan because Miriam and Maeve have determined Jack is Ryan´s pal at the park in hopes that Jack will go to Mary and reveal he does care. As disjointed as the early 1980s can be, I do appreciate that the show doesn´t seem as tied to the slice of life material that had dominated. There is nothing wrong with it, but I found it made any attempts to try anything outside the box stand out, and not always in a good way. The narrow focus in the early years almost seems out of place given the nature of the setting. For a show set in New York City, it often felt small.

I thought some might be interested in this. This is the final episode of ¨Grand" that was unaired (at least in the United States). This two season series underwent several revamps. in the first season, the show featured continuing stories about three interconnected families: the lower class Pasettis who lived in a trailer, the middle class aspiring yuppie Smithsons, and the wealthy Weldon clan who owned a piano factory, the local business. Janice Pasetti was the maid for the Smithsons and the Weldons. Carol Anne Smithson was Harris Weldon´s niece as well as high school classmate of Janice´s. The first season ended with an infamous cliffhanger leaving most of the characters in Janice´s trailer which disappeared when a tornado hit the town of Grand. The second season started as a more traditional sitcom with most of the recurring cast members dropped as well as some of the contract cast. The show centralized the story by moving the Pasettis into the Weldon´s stable and Carol Anne moved into the Weldon mansion after Tom disappeared. Norris Weldon bought the local bar and a lot of the stories were focused on singles Carol Anne and Janice. The traditional sitcom format wasn well received. In the final four or five episodes, the show shifted back to more serialized stories but of a supernatural nature with the attempts of a coven to take over the piano factory, the arrival of Janice´s mother Viva (played by Caroll Baker), and Carol Anne adopting a boy who had been raised by wolves. I suspect the final version of ¨Grand¨ was an attempt not only to regain the show´s original fan base but possibly cash in on the cult status of ¨Twin Peaks,¨ even if, by that time, TP was already losing appeal in the ratings.

@robbwolff Thanks. This makes sense timeline wise. Shaffer alluded to working on ¨Tribes,¨ which aired from March-July, 1990, so she must have worked on ¨Loving¨ just prior to that.