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From CurlyQGrl´s site The site is sometimes a little bit harder to find minor supporting roles. The last reference I can find to Sly Eckert is If anyone else remembers seeing him beyond this, please jump in.

Coulson was David Cherrill. How did people enjoy his writing on "The Doctors" with Linda Grover and later with Elizabeth Levin?

I am glad to know you are also just Mitch. I found your commentary very amusing. The more I think about it, I think you proposed that the call boy situation was a cover for some spy ring too. I thought it definitely would have made the fanbases lose their minds. I think Marah took Reva's prison stint hard. There was a rather noted confrontation where Marah really laid into Reva, but I don't think Lindsey McKeon was very good in it. Truthfully, I try not to remember too much of McKeon in 2002 because I had the misfortune of watching the "Rape Me Tony" scene at a neighbor's house with their 8 year old grandchild (my neighbor was a GL fan as well). The first round of Jonathan/Tammy (September-November, 2004) was wonderful. When it was all about Jonathan enacting revenge, it was quite good. There was just something deliciously twisted about that being the angle that Jonathan took to hurt Reva. There was the added element that Tammy had been raised by Richard that I don't remember being mentioned too often. I also wish they had explored what actually happened on the mountain when Sandy left Jonathan for dead because they had two different versions of the story. I thought Sandy became interesting as the imposter son, but that they needed to explore that background. What motivated him to do that? There was a comment made by Frank DiCoupolous of all people at some event around December, 2004, that the audience would be shocked to learn who Sandy's mother really was. The general thought was they were going to try to make him Annie's son. The stuff with Ava later on was half baked at best, but I wasn't watching much by then. The crazy thing about the Twu Luv stuff was they didn't make any strong attempts to repair any of the harm done, and then they leaned into it even harder. I remember Jonathan saved Tammy from a fire and that was it redemption moment. Maybe a single episode in the summer of 2005. I thought the most insane thing was having Jonathan being the one to try in Sandy for the bigamy charges. I get Jonathan wanting to make Sandy suffer, but it humiliated Tammy. I was curious about Justin Klosky's return in 2006 so I watched just Jonathan/Tammy/Joey/Lizzie scenes from March, 2006. It was wild seeing them bring Joey back for a few episodes, play up a very nice (as well as rushed) reunion between Joey and Tammy and still have Tammy choose Jonathan. It was also wild because they had Lizzie comment how if they hadn't drugged Joey than Jonathan/Tammy wouldn't have happened. I think if Tammy and Jonathan were portrayed as the toxic couple they were and how Jonathan ultimately was playing on her insecurities and how Tammy enabled Jonathan's violent impulsivity there would have been something to explore. Instead, Love Conquered All until Tammy died. I remember that happened a lot during that time period and, occasionally, it would be revisited randomly. I remember Russ Anderson talking about how his character, Christopher Langham, had a secret but he was never told what it was. I don't remember if Carmen was offcanvas after Danny's "death" in November. I had forgotten about that story until I was looking through clips. There might have been a gap which is why you thought she was off earlier.

I've seen it listed as 2 DVDS with 21 episodes on each DVD for a total of 42. However, it's entirely possible it is 21 episodes on 2 DVDs and the person wrote it wrong. I imagine that the source would probably be the same source for the "Guiding Light" episodes from the same period so it may be more likely that it is only 21 and the other DVD is actually the GL episodes.

There are about 40 something episodes from summer 1966 in the trading circles. I'm not sure if they are online.

Wheeler and Kriezman undid Sandy as Jonathan. Sandy appeared on screen in August, 2003. The anti-climatic reveal that Sandy was Jonathan came in late October, 2003, when Reva caught him stealing from the Lewis safe. If I recall, Sandy meandered a bit playing a supporting role in the younger set storyline (he was directing "Romeo & Juliet" which was like a C-story for the then younger set Joey, Tammy, and Lizzie (who were all recurring as I recall until a few week before John Conboy was bounced. It wasn't until they decided in April, 2004, that they were going to do a Shayne/Marina/Sandy. Kit Pacquin (the very brief Marina) was in the role at the time. I seem to recall Pacquin's Marina having a conversation with Olivia while Sandy was talking to Buzz. Sandy basically got all angsty wanting Marina, but it was pretty one-sided from what I recall. This played out until Shayne was written out in June (or early July), 2004. Shayne was shipped off to Bosnia I believe to teach kids how to play baseball. It felt very much like they were resetting Shayne to be a more huminitarian/do-gooder type when he would return down the line. I think it was around this time that we were getting the previews of Kriezman's first stories so it was clear they were setting up Shayne as the good brother, not that he wasn't already, but more bland with Marty West in the role. I figured Shayne would be back within a year, but I was clearly wrong. I never thought Kay would come back, but he certainly was good in the role. Once Shayne was gone, I don't think they did much with Marina and Sandy, but I might be forgetting. Kriezman was headwriter in In late August, 2004, the bigger hints were being dropped about Sandy being an imposter. He was working for Reva at the time, I think, and Hawk Shayne popped up and suggested that he might not be who he claimed. I cannot recall the exact reasons. Anyway, the hints continued until Jonathan (calling himself JB) first appeared in September, who I believe was initially selling Lizzie a drug to get Joey Lupo into bed. It was the Lizzie/Joey "hookup" (they didn't have sex but Lizzie led Tammy and Joey to beleive they had had sex) that led to Phillip paying off Joey to leave town and for a depressed Tammy to decide to go trolling for sex. Initally, she propositioned Tony Santos before becoming prey for JB. Then in October, 2004, JB started taunting Sandy I think. It looked like JB was the one who was trying to run down Tammy with a car and Sandy jumped into the way to save her. This led to Sandy's coma and Reva learning that she couldn't be Sandy's mother. JB and Tammy were hanging around while Sandy was on life support. When he was finally able to speak, Sandy told the truth to Reva about Jonathan because Jonathan had made it clear his plan was to deflower Tammy to hurt Reva. This all happened (surprisingly) before November sweeps.

I vaguely rememer the voice of the Mole being someone else. I don't think Weston figured out her direction for Sandy until October or so. As I recall, he was revealed as Jonathan in late October and then they had him doing the play with Tammy, Lizzie, and Joey. I had forgotten Kay was also in one of the "Halloween" films. I don't remember much of what Marah was doing during this time. I remember there was an attempt to build some animosity between Marah and Reva. Marah as the stalker under the circumstances you stated (either blacking out or some other psychological issue) might have been compelling especially if Jonathan was blamed first. The only issue is that Lindsey McKeon couldn't have handled that. Carmen was trying to run off with Robbie on New Year's Eve because he was the only person who still loved her at that point so she appeared for a couple episodes under Conboy, but I imagine that was already in motion. Then again, Weston reversed other things. Now that I think about it, John Fiore's Vinnie Salerno basically replaced Carmen as the mob heavy even though he didn't have the connections to the canvas, though I do think Eden turned out to be one of his former mistresses. Yes, Bailey dated all his co-stars (Crystal Hunt, Kit Pacquin) but couldn't generate chemistry with anyone onscreen. I really wanted him and Tammy to work given the story setup, but I've never seen a chemistry test fail SOOOO badly. I still would have invested in Tammy and Sandy over Tammy and Jonathan. Sandy/Jonathan having a sexual backstory would have made sense. I remember Jonathan mounting Sandy in the hospital after Lizzie ran Sandy over (which was never really resolved) and thinking that Pelphrey was definitely leaning into the potential sexual backstory. @Mitch64 did you use to use the other handle of just Mitch? If so, I remember you had some wickedly delicious campy story suggestions involving Jonathan/Sandy and I think Jeffrey O'Neill. I tried finding them over the years, but cannot seem to locate them.

@Paul Raven I think the source of the Allens appearing in 1966 is actual episodes. I believe they are part of the set of episodes from the summer of 1966 that have been circulating. If not, I think it's a summary of episode available at the Paley Center. Prior to that episode appearing, I don't think any of the Allens had been mentioned or if they had been no time period had been assigned to them. So Kitty Allen appeared in 1966 and 1967. @FrenchFan Thank you for sharing these. I appreciate seeing how the pacing works in individual episodes. It seems like these episodes are lots of repetition of exposition even though they are so short. What are your thoughts on the episodes?

I agree and disagree regarding the Reva stalker story. Reva was recently released from prison for turning off Richard's life support because Richard's living will had been discovered back in October/November. I want to say Cassie (or was it Edmund?) who found it and there seemed to be a question whether or not they would use it to free Reva. While the living will exonerated Reva legally, she still had to deal with the lingering ill will attached to her decision. Per her normal modus operandi, Reva had acted impulsively in a situation, which ultimately hurt others. Cassie, Tammy, and Edmund all had the right to be angry with her. Marah told her off a couple times, but I believe they had reconcilled by then. I don't remember why Holly was suspected other than she was connected to Reva and she had been unhinged during the Nursery Rhyme Stalker plot (which was also referenced in this time frame as Ed babysat Robbie while Michelle and Bill went out on a date, and Michelle expressed concern about Ed allowing Holly to be around Robbie). Holly may, and this may completely be wrong, have been suspected because Reva had "abandoned" Jonathan, which may have been how they were working Jonathan back in. Ultimately, it is how they introduced Jonathan when he was came back to Springfield to seek revenge against Reva and Sandy. Maybe @Dan or someone else would remember better. I know John Conboy hired Scott Bailey because both Bailey and Marty West auditioned for the same role (I feel like it was Jonathan). West was given a contract as Shayne Lewis, but the previous actor, Billy Kay, had been on recurring. I don't know if Kay was offered a contract, but the general consensus was a) he wasn't conventionally attractive enough for Conboy and b) he was developing some minor street cred with indie film work (he had recently appeared as a teenage hustler in "L.I.E."). I think Bailey was originally hired as Jonathan Baynes, the stalker and Reva's son. Then, Conboy and Weston changed their minds so they kept him as the voice on the radio. I actually think he had ANOTHER name before Sandy Foster in the credits, but that was something I am just recalling now. When he first appeared in the summer (I want to say August/September at some sort of protest), I don't think they had figured out yet what they were going to do with him. He was definitely presented as a love interest for Marah, but it was mostly on Marah's side. So it was left ambigious whether or not Sandy would actually be Jonathan until Reva caught him stealing from the Lewis safe and Sandy revealed who he was. I'm trying to remember, did Marah play much with Stephen Martines/Colton Scott's Tony? I remember that change occured around the same time. I feel like September 2003 was a big change month. Eden and Tony were recast. Nico was introduced. There was that brief Spaulding missing intern story with Michael Swan (and later Mark Pinter) and Linda Cook as the young woman's mother. lol The puppet appeared like one time. I remember it was "Sandy and the Mole." I don't even know if I saw the episode that puppet was in. God I loved Scott Bailey. He was by no means a great actor, but as a closeted teen I definitely found my type, attractive socially awkward guys. I loved the MyNetworkTV novelas. They were (are?) on Tubi or at least a couple of them are. It's funny. Annalynn McCord who is popping up on another show soon (I won't say for spoiler reason) was in the vignettes that were filmed for one of the unproduced novelas, "Rules of Engagement." Dylan Bruce was the male lead in the filmed scenes. It was set to begin filming when the novela projects were scrapped, but I don't remember if Bruce or McCord were still attached. The shippers were bad. I remember thinking Claire Labine was killing the San Cristobal setting with the tea cup story that led to the revelation that Richard wasn't the legitimate son of King George (or whoever) and was the son by his mistress. Instead, they ended up holding elections. Ugh! At least Michelle was a Bauer and it kept her front and center, but ultimately I'm not sure if that was a good thing. By the time GusH took over, I was one foot out the door so I don't remember their nonsense. I liked Gus and Harley's aborted wedding, but, yes, I can see how that was really the mark where it was leaning into a very black and white view of the Coopers and the Spauldings which I don't think did anyone any favors. Culliton definitely seemed like the missing piece. I think the Conboy produced episodes definitely showed the potential if the writers wrote and Conboy was kept out of the writers office. I will say I like those type of scenes or playing minor story beats that don't contribute to the overall story but provide a moment for self reflection (the above mentioned Michelle fears Holly around Robbie). I remember that seem to happen a lot in early Wheeler as well. There was a rather nice moment between Alexandra and Phillip at Spaulding Enterprises about May, 2004, when Alexandra just reflected upon how lonely her life had become. There was also a nice moment where Billy gave Little Bill a piece of jewelry belonging to Billy's great grandmother (or some other relation) who was Native American as they were building up to Eden and Bill's (non)-wedding.

The Rassies and the Mannies were well organized. I´ll give them that. I thought Cole´s return was a blunder for sure and felt someone had needed to sit Conboy down and explain that the Internet had changed the fanbases. When was the Cassie effigy in the form of a demented Big Bird that the Mannies sent to the set? Was that still with Raunch in the office? I don´t remember the flowers, but I do remember Conboy saying he was dumbfounded how the show could have let him go given the number of fans he had. You can almost imagine the Rassies making a video collage of Marty West´s oil wrestling videos intercut with horror movie clips ending with a Rassie smashing a twinkie as the ultimate threat to Conboy´s harem. The original culprit in Reva´s stalking was Jonathan Baynes, Reva´s son by Richard who was later renamed Randall. Scott Bailey was hired to play the part, but then they made him Sandy, the radio show DJ. Bailey appeared as just a voice for months and I don´t think he first appeared until August despite being on contract in like February or March. BTW, Raunch and Labine were never going to work. I´ll agree on that. I don´t think Labine was a bad fit though, but she was certainly hired for the wrong reasons. Given her track record at ¨General Hospital,¨ it appeared CBS and P&G wanted her to continue to turn GL into CBS daytime´s answer to ¨The Sopranoes.¨ I think early 1990s ¨Guiding Light¨ tonally is something that Labine could have worked within. Also, if the woman could bring life into ¨Love of Life,¨ than I don´t think GL was too conservative for her lol. That´s how I remember it. I remember them suspecting it was Annie and us seeing Annie in the mental hospital that Alan had designed to look like the Lewis living room (correct?). Jonathan was missing at the time. I believe it was Olivia who informed Reva of this.

As a friend of Conboy, I believe she also wrote for his Euro soap, Secrets. For some reason, I had associated the start of Weston with the new opening credits, which are in the February 24, 2003, episode. I remember the bombing being the last episode as well so I was surprised to see Taggart and Culliton credited in the post-bombing episode March 3, 2003. This is their last credited episode. I know that the show was still on a delay or maybe these are misnumbered. A lot of uproar started when it was announced Taggart was replaced. Didn´t Culliton stay on for a few more months before being replaced by Donna Swajeski in the fall? Then, the new opening sequence brought out more groans. In reflection, I think one of the reasons I didn´t completely deride Conboy/Weston because I enjoyed what they did with Phillip and Olivia, even if it wasn´t as strong as it was or would have been under Taggart and Culliton. Chappell and Alexander just ran with whatever they were given and the script writers seemed to make it work. I agree that December 2002-February 2003 was incredibly strong. I felt that energy was similar in the early months of Wheeler (April - June 2004). It was probably because they were just cutting heads and stalling the rest of the stories, but I enjoyed that period as much (if not more than) Culliton/Taggart/Conboy. I would be curious who was script doctoring because I´d believe it was Weston´s work over Swajeski (who couldn´t do much in the lengthy term she had with Kriezman). I´d offer up the suggestion that Swajeski might have cooked up bits of the Maryanne Carrouthers plot. Carrie Nye was supposedly a friend of Ellen Westonś according to Wikipedia. I don´t remember that personally. I do remember Weston´s college roommate was Lanie Kazan and she appeared in a single episode as Joey Lupo´s mother, Shirley(?) Lupo. Mrs. Lupo was mentioned afterwards until I want to say Joey departed in September, 2004. On this board, I remember the general consensus was that the show was running on all cylinders at the time. In context of the greater soap landscape, it just wasn´t enough considering Guza had returned to ¨General Hospital¨ in June, 2002, Hogan Sheffer was still being praised for ¨As the World Turns," and Paula Cwikly and Peter Brash had started at ¨Days of Our Lives¨ in early 2002. Add in the impending return of Michael Malone to ¨One Life to Live,¨ the happenings at ¨Guiding Light¨ were registering with the general soap audience. Also, the ratings didn´t move, from what I recall. I know Weston hit a new low fairly early into her run (March or April, 2003) but the number she was beating was from several weeks earlier (or maybe months) under Culliton and Taggart. Conboy´s version was very flashy. In hindsight, I probably wanted it to work much more than it actually did. Even when people were being dropped from contract we usually saw them (Holly, I think may have been the exception who I think appeared only twice after August, 2002, for Blake and Ross´ Christmas remarriage and a one-off in Febraury, 2003, to tell Ed she was there for him during the tailend of the Maryanne Carrouthers tale. Kriezman had an incredibly strong fall with JB´s arrival, Roger´s death, Phillip´s downfall, and just a plethora of interesting character interactions. By January, 2005, it was clear how Kriezman/Wheeler´s run was going to be. The fascination with Tom Pelphrey quickly grew old and switching from a Manny overload to a GusH overload only meant less prominence of the Bauers (even though Manny tended to be a problem to everything rather than a solution). I appreciated that Wheeler liked the veterans, but she was always trying to create a show she didn´t have the money to produce. That´s why I am curious if Tomlin could have salvaged it, but it was probably too far gone. 2002 started with Lucky Gold and Christopher Dunn, right? I think Taggart was added as a headwriter around March/April. Carolyn Culliton replaced Lucky Gold sometime in the fall September/October. Then Raunch left in November with Mary Alice Dwyer Dobbins acting as defacto EP for the brief time before John Conboy started. The show got some goodwill from the 50th anniversary episodes featuring Josh and Reva yet again with guest appearances from Maeve Kincaid, Krista Terseau, Rebecca Hollen, and some others. Ed Bauer and Bill Lewis were both brought back around then too. For me, though, it was still very messy. I remember being excited Bill was back and then remember watching them reveal he knew Lorelei and being like, yep, I´m out. Taggart still struggled a bit into the fall of 2002. I was not a fan of Marah Lewis screech at Tony Santos to basically rape her or for Cassie Winslow to be stripping for Danny Santos because she owed him money and this was suppose to lead to romance. I liked Bill and Michelle, but I´m not sure what story could have been told with them in the long run. The stalker story was fun and Alexandra Spaulding wasn´t the best choice. The Gus parentage story was complicated because Gus had been introduced with the implication he was Miguel Santos and Selina´s son, but that quickly got squashed. I don´t think Gus as a Spaulding worked or as a Bauer (wasn´t the original ending Gus was Rita and Ed´s son or was it Alan and Rita´s?)

I believe the period of Conboy producing Taggart and Culliton episodes was December 26, 2002-February 21, 2003. It is a very good two months. This episode features a sequence that I remember was fairly well regarded at the tiime. After months of being deceived her then husband Alan, Olivia learns everything that her husband has been up to, including changing her birth control pills. Agreeing to meet with Alan on a secluded island, Olivia lays all her cards on the table. The final line of the episode, I believe, typically found itself in the favorite dialogue threads on this boards for the next several years.

That is the scene. That is Conboy with Taggart and Culliton writing. Conboy took over mid-December if I recall. I want to say the same week Marj Dusay started appearing as Alexandra again. I believe Taggert and Culliton´s last episodes were the end of February when the bomb went off in the studio. I was making a bad joke about Chamberlain was more effective in a supporting role post-Lorelei. In particular, there was a scene about October/November, 2003, where Lizzie was pouting because she was cast as the Nurse in ¨Romeo & Juliet¨ and Beth explains to her daughter the significance of the role and, in essence, explains where she is herself in life. There were other scenes, but this one stood out. Conboy and Weston had Ben working as an escort for Eden, but Eden was a Taggart creation or a Gold/Dunn/Taggart creation. I think Taggart and Culliton may have written Eden out in their last few episodes, but Weston brought her back. I thought the initial escort angle made sense. Ben was broke and most of his stories with Matt Bomer in the role had a seedy undertone to them. I thought the serial killer storyline was fine as I hadn´t watched Ben grow up so it meant little to me. I thought the sexual abuse angle made sense for who Ben had been since returning to Springfield (placing bets on Marah´s virginity, going out with an underage Marina). I just wish it hadn´t been revealed in context of a serial killer storyline. Nowadays, I think having a character like Ben Reade becoming an internet sex worker would be an interesting twist on an old tale, but I just don´t see any of the current shows handling that kind of story well.

This is kinda where I ended up. I started watching in fall 1998 when Essensten and Harmon Brown so my standards weren´t that high. I didn´t think the Maryanne Carrouthers story was any worse than what I had seen of the Annabelle/Eli Simms story which had, at that time, a more mixed reaction than it has now. I thought Carrie Nye was deliciousy campy as Carolyn Carrouthers (I was seventeen, sue me). I remember learning to appreciate some actors I hadn´t under Conboy. Beth Chamberlain, no longer a lead but a supporting role, gave some very emotional performances as Beth that I hadn´t seen in her previous stories where she was donning a wig and an accent and writing romance novels. I feel like David Andrew Macdonald´s Edmund also seemed to find some humanity in a character who shouldn´t have had any. Also, the Conboy produced Culliton/Taggart episodes were the perfect mix of style and substance and I don´t regret that very short period at all. Conboy´s biggest issue to me was he hadn´t worked in daytime in over 15 years. The Internet had changed the way viewers interacted with the show. When he was quoted as saying he couldn´t understand why Bradley Cole had been fired given all the outcry, I knew that he was too far gone to really make an impact. No one wanted to lead ¨Guiding Light¨ in terms of headwriters or producers. Seeing what happened a few years later, I would have liked to have seen how a Gary Tomlin produced show embracing more of his ¨Days of our Lives¨ style rather than his ¨One Life to Live¨ work would have done. In regards to the nudity, Conboy´s love scenes were steamy. I seem to recall he came in right off the bat and had a very intense encounter with Grant Alexander and Crystal Chappell where Chappell´s chest was heavily featured. The mentioned Shayne and Marina scene was noteable because Shayne was paralyzed at the time. I´m surprised the Shayne scene got them fined because, if I recall correctly, that was a December/January scene and it was Daniel Cosgrove´s butt on display in February in a shower scene with Deborah Zoe´s Eden. Mark Collier had a similar scene at ¨As the World Turns¨ around the same time. The Nursery Rhyme Stalker showed the ultimate flaw of the Loving Murders, the story that it was clearly being cribbed from, once the reveal comes out, what do you do with the perpetrator? Be thankful we didn´t have to watch Michelle Bauer put Holly out with a syringe of cleaning fluid.

I´m not always perfect on the time for 1976. I think Paul and Margaret Schneider handled the departure of Christopher Reeves' Ben in May/June, 1976, when he went off to prison. I believe the recasting process began right away so the plans were already in the works for Ben´s October, 1976, return. I think the hand off from the Schneiders to Gabrielle Upton is Septemeber, 1976, so it is Upton who handles the return. Early in September, 1976, Ian Russell is introduced. Initially, I believe the setup is for a Arlene/Ian/Meg triangle, but either Upton scrapped it altogether or she grew bored and dumped it at some point. From what I can gather, Arlene lingers in the summer of 1976. Because of her seedy past, she is having trouble holding down a job and Ray does offer her a hostess job in some place he´s connected to. Ian offers the prostitution/sugar daddy situation later in the fall. It´s not entirely clear to me when Arlene / Tom started, but I suspect it was 1977 under Upton, but it could have been earlier. In the meantime, Betsy is with Jamie. Upton introduces the Marriott family in January, 1977, which shifts the story for Ben almost immediately. He runs over Jim Marriott, which leads to his death. The guilt leads him to spend time with Andrew Marriott and acts as a surrogate son, while also growing closer to Mia. Mia had a secret as well; Jim had run off the night of the accident after confessing his love for Mia. This seemed to bring the two together. I can´t remember what happens with Betsy while Liz Kemp´s contract is running out because I think Ray Wise leaves in December, 1976. After reading your post, I also rewatched the final episode. Ray needed to go. I don´t know where they would be going next with Ray and Arlene, but I would hope a trip to divorce court was on the horizon. This was the episode leading into sweeps so I would suspect that Arlene would make her choice about her future in the next few weeks. Originally, I found it odd that Marcus brought back Hal Carson, but when I thought about it more, Hal was probably heavily featured in whatever material Marcus was given leading up to her hire and just assumed Hal was a long term character and only learned he was gone when she arrived. I think the Hal / Ray dynamic makes sense due to Ray´s criminal tie and, with the large contingent of lawyers, having a police officer around would have been good if they relocated Hal to Rosehill from New York City. *** A few more comments about the first set of 1978 summaries... While it was nice to see Van, Meg, and Bruce in a front burner storyline, the storyline itself it so overwrought. I think Meg and Van fighting over a man was interesting as I don´t think that had been done since Tudi Wiggins arrived. I do wish it was someone more exciting than Ron Harper´s Andrew. The Rick/Cal/Michael/Mary Jane stuff is just bad. It does feel like Marcus reused some of this material with Rick and Cal´s fights over Cal having a baby mirroring the conflict between Ray and Arlene (though that really isn´t an uncommon conflict). The emotional situation at the lake leading to Michael´s drowning seems to echo itself in the Betsy/Ben boating incident. I don´t care about Dory. Ben and Mia fighting over offscreen Betsy is such a non-story. I do think there was potential in Mia´s car accident as it could echo Jim Marriott´s death and it does seem to set in motion two story threads in the next set of summaries. Arlene is quite unlikeable given the situation with April Joy. Ray manipulates Arlene to his own means. which would be fine as long as it was played like Ray was scummy, but I´m not convinced he is. Tom´s drinking problem had potential, but it doesn´t go anywhere.

The conversation regarding Jean Holloway's run led me down a rabbit hole. I pulled together some summaries from Lynda Hirsch and Jon-Michael Reed's columns as well as adding some clarifying relationship details to try and make sense of the final years of LOL. I will break the summaries down into three parts: (a) January-May, 1978: we are in the thick of Gabrielle Upton's two year run. This material is not very strong. I am not sure I'd say it was as bad as Jean Holloway's run, but it is a very forgettable run of episodes highlighted by a lot of bad tropes such as a dying husband trying to pair his wife with his friend, a frontburner couple's main source of conflict coming from an offscreen former romantic interest, and a series of forgettable characters introduced by Upton in the previous year. (b) June-September, 1978: this is Upton's last stand and seems to be an improvement on a lot of her previous run. Maybe the goodwill on my part stems from it being sandwiched between two forgettable periods, but Upton shows some real promise here, but it may have just been a case of too little, too late. (c) October-December, 1978: This is the transition period. In either September or October, Cathy Abbi is installed as producer with Jean Holloway joining in either late October or early November. November sees the departure of a slew of characters (probably close to ten) with several new charactes introduced in December as Jean Holloway´s story starts to materialize. For the sake of phone users, I´ll put it as a spoiler hoping that makes it easier to manage. If it isn´t helpful, I can always reformat.

The final years of "Love of Life" are intriguing because it is all over the place. I think tonally you are seeing previews from a producer who had experience on "Young and the Resteless." Stylistically, that comes across in the mood of the promos, at least to me. Then, you got the writing that is straight out of "When a Girl Marries" which just is such a contrast to slicker look of the promos. As I am piecing together the Jon-Michael Reed and Lynda Hirsch summaries, something that is standing out is there are some significant set changes when Cathy Abbi came on. Bruce accepts the position as a professor at Rosehill College and moves into Timothy McCauley's old house, which is a new set. A few weeks later Ray buys a new house for Arlene. Mind you, the disco was introduced just prior to Abbi's arrival (August, 1978) and Elliot and Betsy arrived in July, 1978, so they needed a place to stay. Add in the cast turnover, it is a pretty massive overhaul. I know she was still at "Days of our Lives," but it would have been interesting to see how things would have shaken out had Ann Marcus arrived in November, 1978, rather than May, 1979. I think cancellation would have been hard to avoid, but creatively I wonder where things would have gone. I am pretty positive it is Ray and Arlene Slater in the shower. The dude definitely is Lloyd Battista and the actress playing Arlene seemed to dye her hair a lot in those last few years. That final puffy dark hair look at the end is a lot.

I'm starting to pull the weekly summaries for 1978 for "Love of Life" to get a sense of the show before Holloway and Abbi arrive. I had forgotten that Upton's final months were actually building to something interesting (not sure if it was sustainable). Anyway, reviews of Holloway's work in print typically have accused her of writing for radio, which she had. I'm not even sure what the point of the search was. I think Ben and Betsy needed a new direction after all the high melodrama. With Meg on her way out, I would have shifted Mia as a leg in the Tom/Lianne story with having Lianne involved in a professional / quasi romantic relationship with Andrew Marriott. With Mia's brother Wes setting out to pursue Lianne's sister Kelly, I think having a Tom / Mia connection might have been worth pursuing as it would have allowed more Lianne / Mia conflict and more Betsy/Mia conflict. I also would have brought back Andy Marriott as another leg in the younger set triangle. I don't think Tony or Bambi had more story left in them. Eliot as the big bad would work for me. I wouldn't even be against somehow moving him towards Amy Russell as this sorta toxic power couple who would have thrived in the 1980s especially if Amy's voice of reason love interest was someone like Alan Sterling. I would have dumped Hal Carson, the cop who wanted Arlene. I think having Arlene wanting to raise her children independently would have been more compelling in the long run. Though, I would have done the custody fight and have had Ray show up in the courtroom with his surprise new wife, a new Meg. I think you are mixing up two of the promos. In one of the promos, Arlene and Ray are nearly killed by a glass of poisoned wine, which a hotel maid decided to drink instead. This was from the Bambi Brewster story, probably in February/March, 1979, when Ray is trying to find Bambi's father. In the other promo, Bambi and Tony are being all lovey dovey and the mystery Asian woman threatens their happiness. She wasn't, however, a hitwoman. That promo I think was from September, 1979, but I could be wrong. The woman was Kim Soo Ling. She had been a nurse during the Vietnam War and had been Tony Alfonso's lover. Tony was a chef at one of the establishments in Rosehill and had become involved with Bambi Brewster. When Bambi and Tony grew closer, Kim arrived in town with a secret, she had had Tony's child and given it up for adoption. She needed Tony's help in getting back in contact with, or getting custody of the child. Kim ended up workign at Rosehill Hospital as a nurse's aide or as a nurse. She and Tony tracked down their son, Tran, to his adopted family in California. I believe the adopted mother was sick and didn't have long to live. Kim and Tony agreed to let Tran stay with his adopted family in the final weeks of the show. I believe Irene Yah Ling Sun played Kim from 1979-1980.

I understood why Phillip was made the big bad in his exit... to facilitate the murder mystery plot. You couldn't have nice guy Phillip just being killed off without having a list of suspects. Weston and Conboy had Phillip go off the deep end and committed him to Ravenwood. During that time, Olivia had returned to Springfield after leaving town (to facilitate Chappell's maternity leave) revealing that her baby had died. We quickly learned she was simply hiding the child to keep her safe from the Spauldings (Lizzie had manufactured a fall for Olivia around August, 2003). Olivia married Phillip and moved into the Spaulding mansion once it was revealed Emma was alive. I remember one of the conditions was that Alexandra had to live in the potting shed. Anyway, Philip was released from Ravenwood in April, 2004, and he set out to get revenge against Olivia. The Olivia/Phillip material from April - July, 2004, was incredibly strong (in my opinion). Phillip was certainly making Olivia's life hell, but she was playing her long game as well. It was Kriezman who just leaned into it with the whole eminent domain stuff for the Coopers and then deciding he was going to take a bunch of kids with him when he left town. Kriezman had this way of deconstructing characters, but making no effort to rebuild them; I had very real issues with the way they handled Tammy once they decided Tammy/Jonathan were going to be more than just a part of Jonathan's revenge plot. Phillip in the shadows over the next few years was dumb. I kept trying to get back into the show in those years (2005-2007), but always something stupid would happen. I remember tuning in for Ross' death and learning that Phillip and Rick were apart of it and tuning out again.

I'd considered Jorn Winther because of what I know he did for "Generations" and some of the influence I can see on the later half of "Rituals." Winther and Raymond Goldstone (Marcus' brother) worked together for several months on "Rituals" with the interracial romance between rich girl Julia Field and cop Lucky Washington, the son of the family maid as well as a story about a group of white supremacists who kidnapped C.J. Field's son Mark because the group was anti-semitic (C.J. was Jewish). At the very least, Jorn Winther's show would have been a bit more diverse, which it desperately needed. I can see what you are saying about the show being in transition. I think there were definitely a lot of moving parts that hadn't completely settled. The true younger set was one area of development Marcus hadn't gotten to a place she was happy with. Originally, Marcus took Amy Niles' Gina Gaspero, Ray's kid sister, and paired her up with Marcus' creation Wes Osbourne, III, who was Mia's younger brother. Gina and Wes had a summer story where Wes deflowered her, Gina thought she might be pregnant, and then she had a bad trip after consuming a pot brownie at a party with Christy Bringham (Leah Ayres). Gina was dumped in September and Wes was shipped off to school (I suspect Woody Brown took a leave to film the "Flamingo Road" telefilm). Wes only returned in November after dropping out of school and went to work at the disco. Kelly Wilson was added in January, 1980, and Cheryl I think was introduced in the final week. The Ben / Betsy story was definitely melodramatic. Under Holloway, the story was rather hookey. Betsy was divorcing Eliot and starting to date Ben, but, in order to secure custody, all of their dates had to be chaperoned by Timothy MacCauley. Holloway's work is really bad. Marcus added the political campaign which gave Eliot Lang additional motivation to keep his marriage to Betsy in tact. The rape added the child, which was a complication that Ben was really struggling to get over (that Eliot and Betsy would be tied together by a child). The boating accident set in motion by Mia's duiplicitious phone call and all the events that followed certainly sound a bit high drama. I don't mind this sort of material as long as the scripts are strong, but I don't get that sense from what I've seen. Marcus leaned into the melodrama though. I believe during Meg's paralysis story the reason that Lianne performed Meg's surgery, despite Lianne being under suspension or only being an intern, was because the surgeon had a heart attack while in the operating room. Arlene and Ray's stuff just doesn't work for me in any incarnation. I think initially they are just the defacto parents for Gina during the summer plot; Marcus shipped the parents off to Italy for a vacation in June, 1979. Later, Hal Carson (the cop from the Des Moines Bambi Brewster paternity plot) was brought to Rosehill as a spoiler for Ray and Arlene. They were in the plane crash (which happened the same month as the boating accident) which left Ray to think they had conceived the baby during their time in the woods, even though Arlene knew she was pregnant prior to this. Why the show kept Arlene out of Ben's orbit is a mystery to me. I'm not even sure when Bambi first appeared. I think it was some time early in 1978 when Gabrielle Upton was writing, but, of course, Jean Holloway went and made the question of her paternity a major mystery in Des Moines, Iowa, with a bunch of imposters and slick figures trying to keep the mystery going for God knows what reason. As I recall, I don't think Ann Marcus dumped any contact player when she arrived (Tom Crawford was recast, but I think Weber's contract was up and he wasn't renewing). Ann McCarty lucked out because Marcus was finally allowed to tell her reuniting with a child abandoned during the Vietnam War story she had been trying to tell for the past five or so years (originally, it was pitched for a returned Mia Elliot on LIAMST and later for Chris Kositchek on DOOL). The Vietnam story ended the last week of the show. I'd be curious if Marcus would have kept Bambi and Tony on or married them off and shipped them out.

I don't disagree and, the worst part is, those elements had already been embedded into the show. The Soleitos had Tony the cop and then Gino, Carla, and Joey with the mob connections. While the Chase family may have been new money than old money, the class of the media giants verse celebrity musician Nick Rivers could have easily been shaped up. I easily would have given Jared two children from a previous marriage (a son and a daughter) which would have added a bit more conflict to the story. I also think I stated before that I felt that some of the initial conflict should have come from the longtime tenants having to deal with the transplants because they had pushed others out. I would have beefed up what was there. While I'm no fan of Danny Roberts and think the approach to the Jocelyn story was salacious at best, I think exploring the Roberts clan a bit more would have been worthwhile. Jocelyn and Danny's father seemed much more white collar middle class than I expected. I think they could have had him owning a construction company, which would have given him some possibilities for business with Sydney bedding Danny and Jocelyn handling the legal stuff for the ad agency.

To me, the Phillip murder story was an attempt to replicate some of what ¨Days of our Lives" had done when Reilly returned in 2003 with the serial killer story and brought them all back in 2004. Kill off some veterans (or in GL´s case, one veteran) save some money and bring them back later on. The problem was Grant Alexander wasn´t interested in coming back. You can´t tell a story about a character not being dead and not bring the character back. That is just poor storytelling. Now, I don´t know who´s final decision it was, but the show should have recasted Phillip if the show was so interested in having him come back from the dead. During this time, Wheeler didn´t seem big on recasting characters who had already been appearing under her (the only exceptions I can think of are Mandy Bruno as Kit Paquin had just been hired by Conboy when Wheeler started, Nicole Forrester because Laura Wright´s departure was unexpected, and Jeff Branson as Shayne who had been offscreen for several years at that point.) I was pretty good at following GL online media at the time through here and the GLBuzz forum so I am pretty well versed on the BTS stuff at the time.

I don´t think Grant Alexander was happy with being killed off, even if it was temporary. The show clearly wanted him back for most of next few years. I don´t think bringing him back in 2009 was a bad idea. My bone of contention was spending nearly nine months on a murder mystery in 2004-2005 where it turns out that the character was never dead to begin with and the character wasn´t coming back was a waste of time and energy. I liked Harley, but that story did me in. The trial, the prison stint, the GusH on the run... it was too much. Granted, I haven´t looked at episode counts, but Phillip was never guzzling story the way Reva, Richard/Cassie, and Danny/Michelle did. If anything, all Phillip´s departure did was to elevate Harley, which did no one any favors.

@KhanI would hope they would keep Ann Marcus, but I would probably want to hire some subwriters to improve the scripts. The story seems strong, but the episodes I´ve seen don´t always draw me in as much I would like. I would probably try to get someone like Frank Salsibury. If they did replace Marcus, I would probably want Rick Edelstein (based on his work on ¨How to Survive a Marraige¨) or Jane Avery (based on her work with her ex-husband Ira on ¨Secret Storm¨). My final consideration would be A.J. Russell (based on his work on ¨Somerset¨). For EP, I was thinking Jackie Babbin, but she wouldn´t have done ¨All My Children¨ yet so her style might be different if she hadn´t worked on that show first. Babbin would have still been an ABC executive but I believe would have produced some nighttime work.

Michael Dempsey, like most of Wheeler´s hires, was just generic. I don´t think he was a bad actor, but I could never really tell based on what I saw. I remember when they brought him back I was excited because it looked like they might be actually attempting to revitalize the Spauldings. There was some sort of boardroom battle (again) with Beth vying for CEO because she wanted to protect her children´s legacy. I believe Mary Kay Adams was even dragged in for an episode for the vote. It may have been around this time that Beth married Alan in Ravenwood (that was the name of the psychiatric hospital, correct?). I had stopped watching several months earlier when it was clear this was now the Harley show and when it was revealed Phillip was still alive (all that story for months on end for nothing). Anyway, I popped back in and tuned quickly back out when they voted Harley as CEO out of nowhere over Beth. That was all I needed to know. I assumed that, like everything else in that era, Alan Michael´s return would have something to do with Harley as they had been married once similar to Robert Bogue´s Mallet. Dempsey was paired with the equally unmemorable Mandy Bruno´s Marina, who would have been better off paired with Tom Pelphrey´s Jonathan because maybe he could have lit a spark in her performance.