P.J.

I would be fascinated to see the GL episode counts from that time, if they existed. Six years seems like a long time, but Reva was front burner 24/7. I don't see how she could've done episodic tv. The only breaks she really got were her maternity leaves. And it's not like even the late '90's when there were shows shooting in NY (well, mostly L&O). Jordan and Robert have the best brother chemistry.

I could understand her being frustrated by the fact that she'd been in the business 10+ years at that point, and probably couldn't even get in the door. But then again, she'd already gone out for pilot season once (that we know of) and she and her agent knew a 35-ish woman had a very difficult time in Hollywood. I know she did a few guest spots, but other than Designing Women, nothing I saw--not even a Murder She Wrote, and that show had tons of ex-soapers on it. I mean, God bless Marilu Henner, but even having been on Taxi, she couldn't get arrested for years either.

I didn't rewatch that period, so I'm not really sure how much Bill is on. I recall something about him living at the boardinghouse. I think Van made Matt his guardian, and why she didn't name Josh would be a mystery to me, other than the HW decided they needed to keep Bill in Matt's sphere. Nola is also his aunt, although they don't know each other well, and Van wouldn't have trusted her anyway. There's Dinah---but she's unreliable. Billy gets out of jail around NYE.

Maeve makes a few sporadic appearances, but returns full-time the next spring/summer. She's back in time to see Bill and Michelle graduate, although she skulks around town and wasn't going to tell anyone she was alive. She comes back wearing this HUGE hat---which was a throwback to the old Vanesaa. lol.

I can see Kim being that way. Well, Kyle didn't have to say yes. LOL. The suicide attempt feels plot-driven. I don't know if even Long could've made it work. She'd spent so much time trying to make Reva and Kyle into a couple, it feels odd to just have them give up. Not to mention how odd it is to have Maeve agree to marry him. Re Charita---surely they could've at least tried finding clips with who was still there. Maybe they wouldn't have been "big" moments, but surely she'd interacted with Ross, Vanessa, and Henry. Vanessa had dated Ed, FCOL. But Mo and Rick were there---surely they could've bothered to find some clips of her with them (and they did interact a fair amount) and used them. And with Ed they could've found some shot of her talking to him and just not cut to whoever was playing Ed in the clip. That to me is what feels lazy---they had more than a year to figure it out, and they went with a bunch of photos. If you were sort of centering it on Rick anyway---then find clips with them and use 'em.

I rewatched these episodes---they broke my heart. Somehow, Nola had seen Vanessa leave the hospital, and follows her home, and Maeve just lets out this primal scream---chills went down my spine. And knowing the history between them---never quite liking the other and always getting on each other's nerves (to put it mildly)---makes it a much richer to have them put it all aside in the moment and be family to each other. I've never seen/heard what Maeve thought of the story itself, but she did want a break, so it's not like she was fired and then brought back. Yes, Vanessa could be this stubborn and unwilling to ask for help. She'd pretty much always been an "I can do this on my own" type of woman, although when she first came to town, she would still run to Henry. But after she met Billy, she stopped relying on her father. It's part of the reason she (briefly) got addicted to pills after Bill's birth---she was determined to take care of him all by herself and became obsessed with the idea she was the only one who could. Of course, nothing before to this extreme. I should say, there's no way (IMO) they could've told this story---Vanessa letting her loved ones thinking she'd died---if her father Henry had still been alive. She never would've been able to do that to him. And it does chafe that she's letting Bill believe it, when her mantra had been all about protecting him since the day he was born. I honestly don't recall what I thought about it at the time. But now I'm thrilled she's free of Matt at least. LOL.

Having skipped through it, I hadn't realized that was Tony and Annabelle's baby either. I'm not fond of this Reva story either. Sorry, it's tough for me to believe Reva would jump into the river because Kyle left her. (Although, it was kind of ironic having her find out Hawk had been paid to come to town, much like she'd been paid to come to town and break up Billy and Vanessa.) 1986 is suddenly revolving about strangers. Calla and Jessie, Simon, Maeve, Jackson. Yikes. Whatever Kim's ego, I have to believe she respected vets. And they arrived at around the same time. Neither was taking the other's airtime.

Wow...I did not realize Ellen Parker took over the role of Mo so soon after Bert's passing.

LOL...I was going to say there were a couple of times Vanessa just wailed on him. it was some time after he left her at the altar, and she says something like "that felt good...I'd like to do it again!" Jordan must've embraced the physicality, because he's always doing something.

It's hard to remember, as Holly and Blake always seemed to be on the outs over something.

Women slapping guys is a little more common. I grew up with CBS, so it doesn't seem strange to me. If you got a slap, you usually really deserved it.

I thought it was Sherry Stringfield, but maybe it was before Blake slept with Ross.

Billy slapping Mindy is a turning point in '90. And I feel there was a slap between Holly and Blake during the Ross thing.

Probably less than a NBC or ABC soap. There were occasionally slaps. Women slapped men. And parents occasionally slapped their children. There was a period when Mindy and Roxie would fight. But slaps between women were few and far between. The only one between women I can really recall is Vanessa slapping Nadine. There was once where Bea Reardon almost slapped Vanessa, but she didn't. There are probably more, but in general, I always thought CBS soaps (aside from B&B, which used to love Stephanie slapping Brooke) shied away slapping, sort of the way they limited "hell"s and "damn"s to so many per week.

I also assumed Tanquir was in Africa. Montega was in the Caribbean, more like Cuba.

The first show I found had Maeve dressed horribly, and I just shook my head and thought she must've been thrilled to be portraying someone much more sophisticated and rich. Vanessa's hats and gloves probably cost more than her AW character's entire wardrobe.

Well, I think she's trying to be funny, and it's technically accurate, if misleading. If you leave out the Sonni part it's "Josh left Reva to (go to) Venezuela shortly before Reva had her miscarriage because of Vanessa." I guess "Josh left Reva after finding out the child she was carrying was his father's, and miscarried because of her drugged out step-daughter-in-law, where he met a woman with split personality..." isn't as "snappy". As for Robert, I thought he clicked with Harley and Annie, not so much Olivia. I'm on the fence about Sonni. Before Reva came to town, he crapped out with Morgan and Hillary, but a) I don't think anyone really had chemistry with Jennifer Cooke, who was not good, and b) I don't think the romance with Hillary was ever much more than filler. (oooh, Josh and Katie might've been cute...) But, after Reva, Josh was never really chem tested with actresses. I know there was some kind of flirtation with Jenna, which still seems odd to me (especially since Jenna was hiding a pregnancy). But other than Cassie, Josh got involved with other women (from what I recall) when either he was out of town, or Reva was presumed dead. He didn't bust up with Reva and start dating around town.

I've always said, Robert Newman does not get enough credit for the popularity of Josh/Reva. Had he stayed in '91, and had years to build other relationships before Kim returned, I'm not sure we'd have been stuck with "always".

Bizarrely, while I didn't see it, I distinctly remember my younger sister telling me. We were walking to the store, and at the top of the hill she let out "Roger raped Holly", and I swear I remember it echoing for what seemed like forever. She would've been five at the time. I know,,,which I find extraordinary. I have toyed with the idea of watching Another World for Maeve, Kathleen Widdoes and Beverlee. But watching Vanessa call Emma Snyder "momma" kinda weirded me out. LOL. I believe that's what I read in the recaps from the time as well. I meant, I couldn't quite believe that the audience wouldn't understand that a woman preparing to go to her engagement party was raped. I know that on ATWT John raped Kim while they were married, resulting in Andy, but I think they shied away from calling that marital rape.

On the way to her own engagement party? I've read that the show had trouble getting the audience to sympathize with Rita, but...that seems bizarre. Maybe I can understand the issue with the censors, given that at the time, rape wasn't depicted the way it is now, and marital rape was even less acknowledged. Wasn't Chris Brooks' rape one of the first honest stories on the subject? I just don't think I could get into a show I didn't have a working knowledge of. I know it's a different era, but I really tried to get into GH once Maura West joined, but it just never jelled.

I thought about saying how I resented the fact that those two newbies were tripping up the Puppetmaster of all Puppetmasters, when the best others could do was a stalemate (or less...). But, well...*sigh*

He comes pretty close, talkin' about how Reva is full of love and joy, blah blah....which is bilge considering he was the one responsible for throwing her out of Josh's life over working with Alan.

Not having watched AMC was one of the reasons I hesitated to make the comparison, tbf. It's odd--I feel like I could argue Cassie, Olivia, Harley and Dinah suffocated the show along with Reva the last five years.

Well, her staff pointing out the movie connection never seemed to stop Long from using those plots. She was right about Vanessa--she needed a man who loved her, which she'd never really had up to then. But as others have pointed out, Long borrowed heavily from Taming of the Shrew to get it done. (which while I kinda disputed that, I get more now, having watched Kiss Me Kate a few times since.)

I was actually referencing another scene between Roger and Alex, which I think is right after they marry. But yeah---I'm not really impressed with Calhoun's reasoning. Or the "both recall it wasn't unprovoked" line. Wasn't Holly trying to leave him when he raped her? Oy vey.