Videnbas

7 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

The revival didn't feel like a waste of time to me. I was quite surprised when Brad Bell dropped them like a hot potato because it DID work for me perfectly.

I am a bit on the fence about the Spectra revival. It had the potential to work really well either as an homage to the original Spectra gang, or as a new generation of Spectra characters, but the show didn't really invest enough in either of these possibilities. 

If it was a nod to the original Spectras, they should have played up the parallels between past and present even MORE and really developed modern takes on the old storylines and characters. 

If it was a new generation of Spectras, they should have made them LESS obvious copies of past characters and instead anchored the new Spectras to actual legacy characters like Macy and CJ.

The way it was, I felt they did a bit of both but lost interest too quickly. They lost a lot of momentum by not immediately recasting Thomas so they could have kept the business side going. A lot of the relationships were underdeveloped, like Sally/Coco (who were the equivalent of Sally/Macy and thus should have been central), Coco/RJ (where I feel they should have milked the Romeo and Juliet parallel for all it was worth and really tormented the poor kids), and Sally/Saul (I will NEVER FORGIVE the show for passing up the OBVIOUS opportunity to have Saul unleash all his secret love for Sally in a Broadway style musical number!). I feel the Tawny Moore-like grandmother kind of dominated the group and prevented those other relationships from developing. 

Like so many other storylines of recent years, the Spectra revival was a premise that had me cheering at first but in the end left me disappointed because it did not live up to its potential.

2 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

For me, she's what really made the show must see. She was just superb in the role. The Logans as a family just weren't working, and the Spectras gave that contrast to the Forresters. I'm still mad over Macy being killed....twice!

Same here! The Spectras are my all time favorite group of characters and my main reason for rewatching the classic episodes. And I am still mad over Macy's (pointless and poorly written) second death too - if they hadn't done that, I actually believe the Spectras would have had a fair chance of staying viable past DC's real life death a few years later, and they might still be around today.

46 minutes ago, sheilaforever said:

It's just un-be-lie-vable! A dream come true indeed!

Yes!

I have been waiting literally for decades for some of these episodes! I can't believe it's finally happening and that we have the complete seasons up until 1994 now!

And I'm so glad there's a bunch of us who are watching these 1993 episodes because it's half the fun to have someone to discuss them with!

9 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

I look forward to these episodes. I vividly remember the Hollywood Tribute Fashion Show but have totally blanked James' Scottland tale - like completely. So either I did not see consecutive episodes back then or didn't like it. LOL

 

I'm currently at #1580: Macy's alcolism had a really rough start and I have still trouble to accept the super fast descent into addiction because it does not fit with Macy for me. However, as you pointed out, it suddenly gets a gripping tale and everythign begins to click. It's really touching to see Macy caring for Kevin and trying to get her act together and face Thorne. But by the time Keith gets active it's (almost) too late for Macy who's in the downward sprial of drinking in the morning (and covering it from everyone else) or sleeping in the hallway of Sly's apartment. The inpromptu intervention in Sally's office was really good. Schae Harrison once again had the tough job to play Darla ditsy and yet not to drown the serious topic in mud. Darla standing up to Macy and the addict's attempt to take her out as the weakest link at the interention was AMAZING. I also like the layers in Sly who does not have ill intentions but is caught between a rock and a hards place because Macy does obviously not reciprocate his love for her, yet he is pining for her and can easily be stringed along. These storylines needed more focus and by June/July these characters got it. The most fascinating part probably is that Brad Bell backburnered Sheila of all people to make room it. And it works extremely well to see Sheila in a low key storyline all sudden now that she is married to Eric. Bringing her into Brooke's orbit and yet desperate to save Eric's life work and wealth is a stroke of genius. Oh, the drama! 

I agree putting Sheila on the backburner and letting her just be "normal" for a while was a great move. It really raised the stakes because it gave Sheila something to lose - a marriage, a career, a relatively stable state of mind. It makes sense that she would go to great lengths to protect the life she had built for herself, and that in turn opens the door to her desperation and unleashed insanity when she feels that life being threatened.

As for Macy's alcoholism, I wonder if it was really that the beginning was rushed, or more like it felt that way because too much of it took place off screen. I have noticed this a lot with Thorne and Macy's storyline in comparison with the Taylor/Ridge/Brooke story. Often, Thorne and Macy's story moves forward with ONLY the essential/pivotal scenes being shown, while Taylor/Ridge/Brooke scenes tend to have a certain built in redundancy and show everyday life and the passing of time (miss a Taylor/Ridge/Brooke scene and you are usually fine, miss a Thorne/Macy scene and you don't know where they live). Look at the number of romantic/domestic scenes with Taylor and Ridge - not all of them are necessary from a narrative point of view but they establish Taylor and Ridge as a stable couple having a home life and a love life. Meanwhile, Thorne and Macy are often only shown when there is a significant shift in their relationship. And this makes some plot points feel rushed because we don't see the groundwork being laid.

Another thing that stands out to me about these episodes is how the show is basically divided into two separate parts and there is very little interaction between them. Thorne for example is almost completely absent from the BeLieF storyline.

Is anyone else watching the new 1993 episodes? I'm at December 1993 and it's SO GOOD! I am loving the Spectras crashing the Forrester/AFI fashion show, as well as the Scotland subplot. To me, watching these is a dream come true - we're into my favorite era of the show now!

I use squish names as a convenient shorthand when talking about pairings online.

But it just occurred to me that I never use them about characters and couples I really like. Maybe because I feel like the names diminish the couple and characters involved somehow.

On 7/5/2022 at 1:33 PM, Soapsuds said:

Is this a new Zende? He is hot. He reminds me of a young Ben Powers. 

Wasn't Paris mom against her marrying Carter because she wanted Carter for herself? Why the slap?

The Shelia and Mike flashbacks were very nice to see again. 

Why are they dumbing down Shelia? She acts like she doesn't know what equipment Li setup for Finn recovery. Wasn't she once a nurse?

And yes has Kimberlin Brown forgot how to cry on camera? Her scene as Finn flatlines was bad.

Oh and was Finn flatlining or about to throw up? Bad acting!

So many strange moments with the writing/direction/acting on these episodes! 

Grace slapping Carter was just strange. She was sitting there, then stood up to give him a weak slap without any buildup, then sat down again.

And "heartbroken" Paris just sitting there with the exact same blank facial expression and tone of voice that she always has.

I love Sheila and Mike but it seemed like nobody could decide whether the scene when Finn flatlined was supposed to be dramatic or played for laughs. The dialogue could not have been meant to be taken seriously ("oh no, I killed him AGAIN!") and there was a strange lack of urgency when Sheila tried to restart Finn's heart (including Mike debating with Sheila whether or not to use the machine, like just leaving Finn there with no pulse might be a better treatment option...). And why did Finn flatline in the first place, only to be awake and lucid minutes later? 

15 hours ago, Soapfan8 said:

top 8 best years anyone?

Best 8-year time span? I'd say the years 1988-1995.

Best individual 8 years? Not sure, but most of them would be within that time span for me. I thought most of the years from 1987-2002 were pretty good but it's hard to pick my top 8.

Top 5 for me would possibly be 1989, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995.

B&B worst storylines:

Ridge and Bridget. Ridge and Bridget. Ridge and Bridget. 

Nick Marone's exit (I only remember the lobster costume but that alone is enough to make it qualify).

Taylor's second return with Ridge digging up the fake corpse. 

Maya being transgender after previously having been pregnant.

Macy's second death which happened between episodes and was then just casually mentioned in dialogue as if it was yesterday's news.

The Room8 spinoff.

The berries.

The "why did I drink?" saga of early 2022 (especially the 20+ flashbacks in January alone).

Quinn helping Zoe poison Paris's smoothie so she would get gassy during the date with Zende.

The Hope/Liam/Steffy triangle. 

But the absolute WORST is when B&B ignores the basic concept of "storylines" altogether and just has random things happen with no real purpose or long term plan. 

Who would you say are/were the top 10 actors on B&B? 

I think it's a lot harder than to think of 10 good actresses because the male characters tend to be less developed and have more of a supporting role. So a lot of the male characters are sort of one-note - meaning they work as one "character type" but rarely have the opportunity to show any range. The show usually isn't "about" them the way it is "about" the women.

6 hours ago, divinemotion said:

Nobody asks me but I will tell my Top 10 for me are...

1. STEPHANIE the queen in charge.. with the one exception is that she is better at ice and bully than crying and sadness. Stephanie has hard time crying with tears.

2.BRIDGET 2001 2002 amazing... truly masterpiece of an actress. She could have given so much more to the show.  

3.HEATHER TOM KATIE but she overdoes it sometimes. How many times did she have a heart attack... too much... but again.. pure talent.

4.SALLY icon... not realistic at all.. more like a cartoon character but very unforgettable and unique. 

5. CAROLINE she can be very real and very fake based on the material... the actress was not that consistent but the highest moments were truly special 

6.AMBER very big potential and she drove such great moments of the show... she and Sally have made me laugh more than anyone.

7.BROOKE the biggest storyline driver... not a genius actress but I belive kkl is kkl when she acts like brooke. That's the only way she can act... and it's good. Brooke is irreplaceable. But not the top talent. Nope.

8. SHEILA. She is amazing but only in her 2 3 perfect notes... sheila has never been the most realistic character... there have been a lot of bad acting moments with her... but I blame the material 

9.PAM she could be in top 5 if she got more material.. true psycho... and really superb actress.. I place her here because the show gave the others a lot more opportunity to shine... but I think alley mills needs to be more active as psycho pam. I would kill for sheila vs pam

10.TAYLOR... very beautiful but that's the negative... you can't really see past the beauty sometimes... and after 2005 she acts absurdly bad. That's why I place her last... if I judged her from the early Years.. she would be top 5.... but in the late Years...

 

 

Notable mentions

1. Jackie. Had some great moments but in the end ended very boringly 

2. Morgan... not the best actress but I loooved her

3. Macy... again not the best actress... she is too soapy and melodramatic but I love the character... and she can sing that woman

4. The new Hope that is on right now... she us the best for me acting wise

5. Lauren...

 

Negative top 5 chacters

1. KIM Matula hope... sorry many people like her...but for me she made the character too naive and too sweet... it was like I had eaten too much candy... really really got bored by her... and didn't find her effective at all. That's my opinion many people love her.

2 steffy... I mean.. for me there has been so so much overacting... very bad body language. Too much gesturing.. she just feels off to me... I just don't like the actress at all... I feel vulgarity when I hear her voice... and the character is very copy paste from past bold vixen types.

3. Beth Logan.... ew... the most boring character in history of the show.

4. Margot... I mean... overacting... melodramatic...

5. Donnalogan ... all of them.... have been bad.

 

Nothing against actresses... just opinion of a fan.

I like your list too! It's pretty close to mine, especially at the top. You are right JF's Bridget was phenomenal. She could have done so much more on the show but I think she went on to primetime (unsurprisingly).

In the case of most characters/actors who have been around a long time (like Sheila, Stephanie and Brooke), I think they invariably did their best work in the early years (mainly the 90s, up until the early 00s). I wonder if it's a reflection on the directors of the show because I imagine that can make a lot of difference in an actor's performance. 

I actually feel the way you do about KM's Hope and JMW's Steffy! It has made for many years of frustrating viewing when the show revolved/revolves around one or both of them. AN's Hope is much more tolerable and nuanced to me (albeit not exactly a scene-stealer) and she did some great work during the Beth storyline.

2 minutes ago, Soapfan8 said:

Who are your top 10?

LOL, I don't really have a top 10 list. I just meant that I could easily think of at least 5, possibly 10, actresses in the history of the show that I feel were stronger than both KKL and HT. But it also depends on the material - some actresses were given much less to work with than either of those two leading ladies, so I also think it's fair to take into account what an actress does with the material she's given.

Susan Flannery is of course the self-evident #1.
I would place Darlene Conley, in all her scenery-chewing campiness, at #2 because she created a truly memorable character and actually set the tone for an entire subgroup of the B&B cast.

Then it becomes difficult. I have seen Joanna Johnson, Kimberlin Brown, Michelle Davison (Ruthanne), Bobbie Eakes, Schae Harrison, Jennifer Finnegan, Heather Tom, Ashlyn Pearce, Alley Mills, and many others do wonderful things when given the right material (although some of them weren't often given the chance to shine). I think I would place all of these actresses above HT, and at least half of them above KKL.

27 minutes ago, Soapfan8 said:

Do you all think KKL or Hunter Tylo was a stronger actress back in the day?

I would say KKL was somewhat better and had more range and emotion. Hunter was good in therapist mode but fairly unconvincing whenever she had to get emotional. Sadly I think both of them regressed acting-wise in later years (possibly as a result of the direction and/or writing).

But neither of them would even make my top 5 list of the best actresses on B&B. Possibly not even my top 10 list. 

1 hour ago, divinemotion said:

Ive been rewatching some of the episodes because of my partner... and I really want to say that JAKE nearly killed the show... For a show with 1000 episodes of consistency... now all of a sudden MACY wants to sleep with HIM... After meeting him 1 time... After us watching her Romeo and Juliet romance with Thorne... so out of character for Macy... SO RUSHED and so unnatural.... and then this beautiful rich girl Felicia cries all day for this... I'm sorry... boring guy... that continues for 1 year to live in a garage... NOT REALISTIC. And then the forced... decision that ONE DAY Jake just decided he doesn't want to be a tennis coach anymore and Well.. HE WANTS to work at Forrester. Jake has been the biggest FAIL of the Bill Bell era and everything connected to him was unrealistic and forced. My opinion.

I liked Jake's sexual abuse storyline, but his romantic storylines after his "recovery" were kind of not really working. (Then again, maybe that was the whole point.)

The whole premise that Felicia selflessly encouraged Jake to dump her so he could go experiment with other women because he was so inexperienced was just... sexist in a way. Would a man encourage his girlfriend to dump him and go try out other men before deciding he was the one? Would it be seen as problematic that a woman lacked sexual experience when entering into a serious relationship? I just have to compare Jake's situation to Caroline's. For both of them, their first sexual experience was non-consensual and abusive. But for Jake, the "cure" was to date many women, whereas for Caroline, the "cure" was rushing into a marriage.

And I agree that for Macy to suddenly fall head over heels in love with Jake and sleep with him after knowing him for an hour was TOTALLY out of character for her. She was all about Thorne and it was just so unlike her to cheat on him. That affair never made any sense - why in the world would she even consider leaving her husband, whom she was actually deeply in love with, for this guy she barely knew? It was almost as if her main motivation for having the affair was some kind of misguided sympathy for Jake, or the need to feel needed, or believing she alone could "fix" his problems, or being afraid to say no because it might hurt his feelings, or something. And then in the end she realized she really only liked him as a friend. Macy is one of my favorite characters but her storyline for the second half of 1991 is kind of uncomfortable to watch because she is just not acting like herself.

41 minutes ago, divinemotion said:

Its just my opinion that the actress doesnt fit the character at all.. When I watched it with my partner... we both cringed at the way she talked and tried to act out the dialogue. Its just not the right cast. Hunter is perfect for Taylor and it was noticed.

Actually I feel that the first female therapist on the show (was it the one counseling Thorne) would have been a perfect Taylor type character. And she was already in the right profession unlike Taylor who was an oncologist. 

4 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

Still watching - and enjoying it a lot. Right now at episode # 1557.

I recently saw the episode in which Thorne and Macy wanted to meet at the Ocean Club to sort out their feelings. After talking to Sly, Macy's insecruities got the best of her (and Sly was quasi pushing in order to protect his agenda!) and she drank and fell asleep. Meanwhile, Thorne is anxiously to finally reunite with Macy which does not happen. I TOTALLY remembered this episode from decades ago when I first saw it (I was just lurking in and out of B&B with my mom  back then).

Next stop is Karen calling it quits with Thorne which made oh-so-much-sense and was overdue. In today's soap climate, Thorne would have slept with Karen who would then end up pregnant after already having had a one-nigth stand with someone else on the canvas, I guess.

I also really liked Macy's first real meeting with Keith's (mentally challenged) brother Kevin. It really brought back some depth to the Macy character to balance out her drunken sailor days.

The Spectra stuff is getting the short-end of the stick because there is so much going on that just cannot fit into a 30 minute show. It seems like Bill&Darla are over (even though it has not been adressed), Sally&Jack get some moments but not a lot, Karen's role as business woman is non-existent, the fate of the company not really adressed.

Sheila has surprisingly also found a spot in the backburner after marrying Eric. The Houdini House was introduced, but she is not seen that often which is interesting. The BIG story is of course the battle for BeLieF. That Steve Crown dude is getting lots of mileage as a recurring player: singing at Bikini Bar, donning massages to Brooke and Karen, getting to kiss Brooke - all in addition to being a never before seen lawyer of thhe Forresters. Ridge and Stephanie lay it on so thick with Brooke and Connor that even a blind-person could see the red traffic lights. It's really delicious to watch! I can't wait for KKL and SF to swing their slapping hands - the big climax is coming up shortly, I guess. I'm beyond ready for it!

I also remember that failed reconciliation of Thorne and Macy from when I was watching with my mom! I remembered Sly as a much more clear-cut villain than what I see now, which is really a complex guy who does love Macy - just not enough to realize that his relationship with her is destructive and he needs to let her go. This time around, I have really enjoyed watching the Sly/Macy codependency dynamic.

And my opinion of Karen went way up when she found some self-respect and ended things with Thorne. It was so refreshing to see a relationship end because it simply MADE SENSE for it to end, not because of some silly triangle.

Bill and Darla seem to have fallen into a plot hole. I wonder if their fate as a couple will ever be addressed. Their relationship was fun while it lasted.

Speaking of Kevin, I LOVE him! I think he is just so adorable and he really has a wonderfully sweet dynamic with both Macy and Keith. The show did a pretty bold choice hiring a mentally disabled actor to portray him and I think it really works. I like that they are adding some more layers to Macy's alcoholism by showing her doing and caring about other things besides getting drunk (as well as actually acting quasi sober at times). At first I felt that whole drinking storyline was a bit underdeveloped (as you say, the Spectra side tended to get the short end of the stick), but the longer it goes on, the better it gets IMO - it seems that after keeping it on the backburner for months, the writers start getting more invested in this storyline around #1580 and it shows.

(On a side note - I have to admit I enjoyed Macy's first drunken binge immensely because the scene where Keith brought her home and put her to bed was SO MUCH like when my four year old stays up past her bedtime and gets overtired!)

Of course the BeLieF thing is the big frontburner storyline. It was probably the most seismic shift in the show that had happened up until that point, so of course it deserves a lot of air time (although I admit I feel some of the scenes were not, strictly speaking, necessary). And during that time, Sheila is surprisingly normal and well-adjusted (although she is kind of doing a "double agent" thing where she tries to be friends with both sides hoping to gain advantages for herself) because she is reasonably safe. Which is why I CHEERED watching a certain character showing up in episode 1634 today! I can't wait for the epic scene coming up in a few episodes!

18 hours ago, SteelCity said:

Paris is really just a poorly developed character. Plain and simple and they have no idea what to do with her because they don't know who she is. Is she the bitch? Is she the ingenue? Is she the audience avatar? She's so undefined that she's not even root worthy. If the actress brought some nuance to the portrayal we might get somewhere, but it's meh.

I agree wholeheartedly. Paris is a non-character. The writers has failed to give her ANY personality traits at all, and the actress doesn't really add any personality of her own to her scenes. Paris always seems like she is half asleep in her scenes, reciting lines like "I am so incredibly happy" in a tone of complete indifference and with a bored look on her face.

And everything we do know about her falls into the "telling, not showing" category. We hear about her great work with the Forrester foundation off screen, but never see her actually do anything. We have people singing her praises and are left scratching our heads at how and when all these supposedly fantastic qualities actually manifest themselves.

The writing is what it is, but Paris might have had a chance to work as a character with a more bubbly, high-energy portrayal. Instead, Paris almost reminds me of one of those human-looking AIs.

9 minutes ago, divinemotion said:

I think Sally s character started very nice... and got really really interesting by the 800s... then after 1200... the writers started slowly losing interest. I could feel it... but she is still very important character... but I think the character peaked between 800... and 1200... 

The only character that deeply started to feel off ... even though she is still the queen in charge is Stephanie... after about 1100 episodes... Stephanie started to become more and more one dimensional... the first 1000 episodes... she was really really multifaced... I guess it was Susan Flannerys new age and look that just changed the character... it was normal I guess. But I would have loved if Stephanie had continued in her prime years beautiful woman in charge... ways... she started to become more and more just obsessed with Brooke and acting as a bully... going around and terorizing people all the time... the character started lacking that warmt that it once had... But she continued to be THE BEST.

Character that improved - Taylor! She started little rocky... yeah beautiful... yeah hair... but she annoyed me a lot with how she was leading Storm and Blake on... all while wanting Ridge. It was very strange... since I would call this behaviour very Slut from the valley vibe Brooke... but then it changed... She showed her smart side and just the character has been non stop getting better ever since coming on. And Hunter is acting so good. Nothing compared to the way she did in the later years... she has facial expressions and is so striking.

I LOVED Blaked and wanted him to be even more psycho...

But of course the cherry of the show in character developedment was BROOKE.

How much she changed from 1 to 1700!

From a very innocent like girl... with dreams and looking out the window... to scheming and lying to Caroline... to manipulating Ridge into dating her... to destroying Stephanie's whole life... from a poor caterer's daughter to CEO in charge. Brooke really is the force of the show... Even if she lacks the actor's abilities of Susan Flannery. Brooke is just fun to watch... she hooks you into her story. I would say that the character till now has evolved perfectly... We all know that soon she will go downhill... but the first Brooke 1700 episodes... is just AMAZING. Perfect story arc.

 

Interesting takes on character development!

I think Sally took a few months to truly build all her dimensions, but after Macy's introduction and when they started mending their relationship, Sally was complete as a character and the many facets of her character were all there. To me, Sally is one of those characters who have stayed pretty consistent over the years and never truly been "out of character" - being a bit of a "trickster" character and "larger than life", she has a wide range of believable behavior and since she is likely to do almost anything, there isn't really very much she can do that will damage her character, as long as her heart is in the right place. However, whenever Sally falls in love she tends to lose at least 30% of her IQ points. She clearly has a blind spot when it comes to her choice of men.

I think Stephanie, as of year 1993, is still a very complex and strong character, although I do agree that she tended to lose dimensions as time went on. However, I think it became more noticeable from the late 90s on, when her bluntly aggressive side started becoming more prominent than her razor sharp and subtly humorous "chess player" side. I think the haircut scene from 2003, funny as it was, was pretty out of character for Stephanie (although totally in character for Sally), and Stephanie became more of a two-dimensional character after that.

I agree that Taylor improved after the first two years or so. She was pretty frustrating to watch during that whole Storm-Ridge-Blake period when she seemed just unable and unwilling to decide what she really wanted, but after her marriage to Ridge she has really settled into her role as a good wife and a "voice of reason". This, IMO, is Taylor at her best - that is, the Taylor of 1992-1994 and 1998-2002. (I don't recall it very clearly but I seem to remember a temporary return to that initial annoying indecisiveness after her first return from the dead when she just would not reveal herself for months and months and months, and the whole pregnancy storyline where for some reason she couldn't tell Ridge the truth about the child being his because... the universe prevented her from doing so?) Taylor post 2005 is an entirely different character, so I don't really count her as Taylor at all.

Now Brooke I feel has been very consistent from the start - her character development has been very linear from 1987 to 1993. Even in the seemingly innocent girl of 1987 there was this seed of ambition (her fascination with the Forresters and her reluctance to marry Dave). It's worth noting that in Brooke's own personal take on her story, she is always Cinderella and remembers herself as a "caterer's help", when in fact she was not working with her mother at all but rather asked to help out only on that particular evening, as a way to get to see the Forrester mansion from the inside. Brooke taking over FC in 1993 feels like the natural culmination of her character arc (and makes Stephanie's antagonism towards Brooke seem almost prophetic in retrospect). I think Brooke's character started getting derailed with the sudden sharp turn in 1999 when she suddenly developed an extremely passionate attraction to Thorne after having friend zoned him for over a decade. And then of course Breacon was a low point and after that Brooke became sort of a caricature of her former self, constantly jumping from one scandal to the next but without the focus that kept her together for the first decade of the show (especially when her role as a business woman ended).

As for Macy, it seemed like the show originally may have had an entirely different personality in mind for her, and then the writers spent about the first six months turning her character around (unless this character development was always what they intended, as part of the reconciliation with Sally). At the end of that arc, Macy was a very sweet character but almost too "normal" and unproblematic. So the writers tried having her half-heartedly cheat on Thorne with Jake, which really did not ring true, and backtracked again by having her end the affair. I think it was only when the show acknowledged and played up Macy's latent depressive and self-destructive tendencies that the character truly fell into place. Paradoxically, this character was truly in her element when she was balancing on the verge of an abyss. She needed that shadow hanging over her in order to thrive. I think Macy hit her peak around 1992-1995 and 1998-2000 (with the exception of some OOC writing in 2000).

Sheila is an interesting case because she came on the show with an entire backstory that non-Y&R viewers knew nothing about. And then the show introduces us both to the Sheila she was then, and the Sheila she is trying to be now. And there is this enormous tension within the character as she tries to maneuver between her different selves (the one she is trying to be, and the one she is trying to suppress). As long as Sheila has these two sides, she is a very compelling character. And Sheila is probably one of the characters who spends the most screen time thinking - she has her own theme music that plays whenever the wheels are turning in her mind, and she is probably one of the cleverest characters on the show. The problems occur when one of Sheila's two sides goes missing for too long - she needs to be bad, but not ALL bad. IMO Sheila was at her best on B&B between 1992 and 1998.

9 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

Darlene Conley's presence was an instant sensation, even though they kind of retooled the character within a very short time-span and weren't really giving a logical explanation. We just saw more of Sally (plus her troops and daughter) and her darker traits become less obviouss aka. disappeared within two months.

Looking at the long foreshadowing of Spectra Fashions, IMO, it however debunks rumours that Sally's character was ever intended to be a short-term character because Bill Bell had worked with Conley before when she was Rose DeVille on Y&R. They might have expanded the character's universe due to Conley's abilities, though, by adding Macy and using Donna as a model.

Yes, it is clear almost from the start (late 1987) that Spectra Fashions is meant to be an integral part of the show. They are this unknown and unseen entity that we only hear about in dialogue until Sally makes her glorious entrance.

What I do think was less clear, though, was HOW Spectra Fashions would fit into the fabric of the show. I believe at first the idea was to make Sally more of a mob boss type threat, and then very soon it became clear that the humor and camaraderie between the Spectra crew was a more viable way to go. Then I think the addition of Macy was really crucial for the long term viability of Sally's character, because it humanized Sally, gave her a motivation for her actions, and gave us the viewers a window into the soft core of Sally's character.

@sheilaforever, are you still watching the 1993 episodes? What do you think about the "current" (for us) storylines?

1 hour ago, sheilaforever said:

History of Head Writers

March 23, 1987 (#1) - May 4, 1993 (#1533): William J. Bell

May 5, 1933 (#1534) - May 19, 1993 (#1544): no head writer listed OR John F. Smith & Bradley Bell

May 20, 1933 (#1545) - ....: Bradley Bell

The inital story started under WJB but the entire climax happened during Bradley's reign.

It would be interesting to know how far in advance Bell Sr planned his storylines - that is, when he left as HW, how much of future storylines were already outlined. 

1 hour ago, sheilaforever said:

I wasn't necessarily crying, but I thought it was an extremly poignant storyline handled very well by Susan Flannery and Michelle Davidson (Ruthanne). It was actually one of those stories which did not last long enough, IMO. They could have played it for another month or without getting stale or broing. Stephanie eating food scrabs behind Pierre's café gave the chills. The dating with Adam was romantic (if so cheesy), especially with previous "spa day" at the hotel where they sneaked in to get a shower etc.

 

@Videnbas did you surpass me with your 1993 rewatch or are we still in synch?

I've just seen #1549 where Thorne and Macy fiiiiiiiiinally begin to talk and these characters seem to make sense again for the first time in months.

 

EDIT on the trivia front: As of #1545 Brad Bell is now credited above John F. Smith in the writing credits, meaning the creidts reflect his promotion to head writer.

@sheilaforever after a week of massive binge watching (incidentally the first week of my summer holiday) I am now up to #1610 and have run out of new episodes to watch for the time being.

I will not spoil anything, but to me the whole Thorne and Macy's separation/Macy's alcoholism started out feeling a bit underdeveloped (as if the writers had this lighthearted Cyrano de Bergerac story in mind at first but then changed their minds and suddenly decided to go dark instead and send Macy into a downward spiral). But IMO it gets better and better as it finds its pace and gets more time to develop. I think where I am at now, it has played a lot of beats, many of them very poignant, and is shaping up to be the best addiction story arc that I can recall on this show. Also, I think Macy's character makes a believable alcoholic - she always had an emotional vulnerability and the drinking seems like an extension of that.

45 minutes ago, divinemotion said:

Guys I dont know if it works but I 

Oh no... i feel like crying... 

Is this a problem for everyone outside the Netherlands? Or can Videoland be viewed from other European countries? Are there any fans on this board who actually live in the Netherlands and have a Videoland account?

I really hope this is not the end of the Dutch high quality episodes!

43 minutes ago, sheilaforever said:

I totally agree with your assessment on Sly. And I had never made the connection, but you are totally right that he filled voids left by Clarke's departure. I never liked Sly as a person, but I thought he was a fun character - until Jessica's rape of course.

 

As for Connor: it's a nice touch that he is bonding pretty well with Bridget and seems genuinely interested. However, in the long-run he is such an ill-defined character and completely useless.

 

#1540: Delusional Brooke is in high form. My hatred for the character is back in the floring 90s spirit. What a pathetic woman she was back - the writing has shited soooo much since then. Hard to believe that it's almsot 20 years now that we have lady of the manor Brooke and no longer destiny chasing "sleep with Ridge"-Brooke. LOL

What caused my anger: Brooke - who is not living there and no longer family - shows up at the pool of the Forrester Mansion, explaing that she does so regularly. Say what!? Then, Brooke had one of about 500 of these wash-rinse-repeat conversations with Ridge of 1988-1994. Brooke keeps pushing a much married Ridge. Just as soon as he is avoiding a straight answer, Brooke exclaims "I can hear your words, but I feel what you really feel, Wiiiidge!" Yikes!

I agree that Jessica's rape ruined the Sly character. I feel that it was out of character for Sly to do such a violent thing - I would expect him to manipulate and sweet-talk in order to be intimate with a woman, and maybe even take advantage of a woman who was vulnerable and whose judgement was clouded (or who was too naive to have any judgement in the first place), but I don't think Sly as a character would have crossed that line and assaulted a woman who clearly did not consent. After all, he had plenty of opportunities to sleep with Macy while she was passed out drunk in his room and he never did, until she agreed to it (albeit for VERY messed up reasons).

Connor I really had a problem with from the start because of his backstory that really didn't fit with the history of the show. Connor and Ridge as high school rivals, with Brooke and Connor as high school friends, just doesn't add up. Ridge is at least five years older than Brooke (as established during the early years of the show) so there is no way all three characters would have been in high school at the same time. Besides, it kind of takes away from the narrative that Ridge and Brooke were from completely different worlds if their respective high schools regularly played football together. He also starts out with a fairly sketchy and one-dimensional characterization. I do like his connection to Brooke's children though.

And I had completely forgotten how persistent and delusional Brooke was during those years. I can't believe I was rooting for her the first time I watched these episodes. Now all I see is a woman plotting and scheming and insisting that a married man leave his wife for her, even though he is clearly happy in his marriage and has really given her very little active encouragement. And the way she keeps telling him how he feels is starting to get on my nerves. (This is not me taking sides in the ancient Brooke vs Taylor feud. I am not really into Taylor's character either, but objectively, she is the one in the right here, because she is Ridge's wife and he married her, and stayed married to her, out of his own free will. But watching these episodes now I don't really connect with any of the characters Brooke, Ridge, or Taylor. They just aren't as interesting to me as many other characters I would much rather watch.)

Karen is another strange case to me because on the one hand I find her interesting to watch because of JJ's acting and screen presence, and on the other hand the character itself is something of a dead end. She just has no viable options in terms of romantic interests (or storylines in general). Pairing her with Ridge would feel weird, although they have chemistry - and she just doesn't click that way with any other male character. Maybe her coming out story came some 30 years too late because it would have been fitting after her breakup with Thorne that she did some soul-searching and figured out what she really wanted in a relationship.

11 hours ago, divinemotion said:

Sly was a complete fail. So was everything connected with Felicia. Guys... maybe we should write to @rsclassicfanforever and ask if out Angel is going to save us once again. I am desperate for new 1993 episodes. Please... angel... save us.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Sly. I found his unhealthy codependent relationship with alcoholic Macy interesting to watch because the dynamic between them felt very complex and convincing.

(Though I have to admit, I love everything and everyone connected to the Bikini Bar because I really like the atmosphere of that place - it's just so fun and summery.)

I really hope there will be new 1993 episodes soon somehow! I've nearly watched all of the uploaded ones too and I'm so very grateful for the ones we do have, but still wishing for more because I've been hoping for so many years for a chance to rewatch this period of B&B! Also, I think it's fun that there's a group of us here who are watching more or less the same episodes at the same time so we can talk about them!

What are your thoughts on Connor Davis?

10 hours ago, Aback said:

What episode was he introduced?

BTW I love you guys' posts!

Sly was introduced in episode 1298. He was on screen for less than 5 minutes in that episode, he is not even the main character in those scenes, and during that time we learn that:

* He is a bartender
* He is on friendly terms with Taylor’s brother Zach
* He is a surfer
* He has an eye for the ladies
* He is outgoing and social
* He has no scruples about lying or misrepresenting himself in order to pick up women
* He goes by the name of Sly Donovan.
* His nickname is Sly because he looks like Sylvester Stallone.
* He doesn’t want to reveal his real name, presumably because he has a name that isn’t ”cool”. (It isn't until three years later that we do learn his real name - Irving.)

That is pretty impressive in terms of characterization. And it's all so effortless, being shown rather than told, so we don't really feel that the writers are dumping all this information on us, it's just there naturally. After those five minutes, we really feel like we know what he is about and the type of guy he is (to the point that we've probably met someone very like him at some party or in a bar in real life). Current writers really have something to learn from this.