Videnbas

I don't get why Sheila felt the need to switch those labels in the first place. She held all the trump cards at that point. She had just scored a huge win - being invited for Christmas BY TAYLOR. Brooke had provoked her but there was no power behind the words. All Sheila needed to do was stay on her best behavior. Sheila had nothing to gain by switching the labels and everything to lose. And, well, if the secret is out already, what are the stakes?

The Sheila of the 1990s DID wriggle out of that quite effortlessly. She spiked Macy's drink, and then quietly went about her business. Nobody suspected a thing and Sheila didn't give it a second thought. Sheila didn't even care enough about the event to actively keep it a secret. And Quinn spiked Brooke's drink fairly recently without it even registering as a plot point. This just isn't the type of secret you pull out a gun to protect.

So I'm getting to the storyline in 1991 where they are setting the stage for the BeLieF theft and again it bothers me how this mystery was never conclusively resolved. Or was it, and I missed it the last time I watched this storyline? WHO stole the formula? Theories?

Thank you SO much! I am so happy for these episodes! 😊

I was thinking about this earlier today: There is a lot of talk lately about something happening soon after which the show "will never be the same again", and some speculation has been that there might be a major character death. So here's my question - which past character deaths have been significant enough that they actually "changed the show forever"? I don't mean (necessarily) that the death has to be very emotional, or very dramatic, or even that it has to involve a major character. But somehow that character death caused a permanent and major shift in the whole structure of the show. My list goes as follows: Caroline I - because her death changed the focus of the "Ridge's love life" side of the show and without it there would be no Tridge/Bridge triangle (and probably no Taylor in any major role on the show). Since this storyline was always front and center that changed the entire dynamic of the show. Eric Forrester III - because his death triggered the baby switch storyline, which in turn introduced characters like Little D, Becky and Deacon, who continued to impact major storylines for years to come (especially Deacon). Without Eric's stillbirth, no Deacon, no Brooke sleeping with Bridget's husband, no Hope, no Brooke losing control of FC in 2003... in fact, the death of this infant we never even met is probably the most significant death on the show, ever. Macy - because her (second) death was the beginning of the end of the Spectra branch of the show. Sally lost the main motivating factor behind her actions, Spectra lost its primary tie to the show's main family, and the Spectra family and business were left without a viable "second generation" to take over after Sally (as the show never really invested in CJ). So the entire Spectra storyline slowly faded away. (Interestingly, I think Macy's first death was far more emotionally charged, but structurally much less critical as it enhanced rather than diminished the Spectras' role on the show.) Stephanie - no explanation really needed. Stephanie WAS the center of the show. The show hasn't been able to fill that void to this day. Just a couple of my thoughts! What are yours?

I think the problem is that B&B is pretty good at coming up with shocking twists, but not very good at following them up with an actual storyline. Sheila's 2017 return was a major shocker, but then she ended up doing virtually nothing. Maya's transgender reveal was a big surprise but the storyline that followed avoided any conflict that could have made it interesting or groundbreaking. The reintroduction of Spectra in 2017 was a very refreshing idea and for a while it seemed like the show would go back to its fashion roots, but instead they literally blew that idea to pieces. It's been a VERY long time since B&B did a "shocking twist" that actually altered the status quo permanently. In fact, the last thing I remember that really "changed the show forever" was Stephanie's death 10 years ago, and that wasn't a change for the better. So my major twist would not necessarily be a "shocking moment", but rather a major overhaul of the narrative structure of the show, the writing, the characters, and the plot themes. I would go back to the four corner stones of the show: Forrester, Logan, Spectra, Spencer. I would include actual fashion and publishing related storylines. I would bring back a lot of old characters from the 90s, and get rid of some of the more recent ones that were never developed properly. I would look to the past to find loose ends that have been left hanging and address them, rather than just making up random stuff as I go along. I would bring back some of the children that we haven't seen since they were little (Jack, Dino, Diana, Little D, Rosie, Lizzie). But a shocking twist doesn't really get me all that excited for the show. It's one moment and then it will go back to being a really poorly written soap. I want the entire writing style to change.

I only watch B&B so here's my list: Romantic: Thorne/Macy (Trachta's Thorne) Ridge/Caroline I Ridge/Brooke (Ron Moss's Ridge) Non-romantic: Stephanie/Brooke Stephanie/Sally Sally/Macy Sally/Saul/Darla Sheila/Mike

I agree Thorne's mental health could definitely have been explored in depth with Norcross. His Thorne was more fragile while Trachta's Thorne had a more grounded quality that kind of cut this angle short right after the Deveney Dixon storyline had culminated in the second attempted shooting. As for the potential of Norcross and Eakes, it's easy to overlook that the very first Thorne/Macy scene was in fact with Norcross, not with Trachta. So we actually have two "first meetings of Thorne and Macy" - the bar and the Queen Mary - and can compare these two "chemistry tests". In my opinion, Norcross/Eakes had a dynamic where Thorne was clearly the most fragile/timid of the two and Macy was the confident one cheering him up. In that scene, she was joking to get him out of his serious mood and Macy was much less vulnerable than Thorne was. I can easily imagine that a Thorne/Macy pairing with Norcross would have had Macy as the "dominant" one, or the "caretaker", and Thorne as the one needing emotional support. Trachta and Eakes, on the other hand, were equals from the start. Even in the first scene you can see them "mirroring" each other's moods, tone of voice, and body language (which they often tended to do in their scenes over the years). So their Thorne/Macy became more of a symbiotic relationship between two people who were fundamentally very similar.

I think the initial development of the Sally/Macy dynamic was very interesting. It seemed like the writers initially had one kind of relationship in mind, and then they gradually let the relationship develop in the opposite direction, but the shift was slow enough that it still felt organic. In a way, Sally and Macy's close bond was even more heartwarming because we saw that they didn't start out that way and had to work to mend their relationship.

B&B - Stephanie's death. I may be in the minority, but it just felt so "staged" to me. From the moment she was dying, it was as if Stephanie stepped out of the flow of storylines and into a series of "special" episodes where nothing happened other than her delivering letters to loved ones and them taking turns crying over her imminent death. It would have been more poignant if the entire last few weeks of Stephanie's life weren't reduced to one extended goodbye ritual, but actually showed us Stephanie still taking part in the lives and storylines of her loved ones. And then there was the Irish-themed goodbye party (where the grandchildren weren't even invited) for a character who had never been Irish in her entire life but somehow became very unsubtly Irish on her deathbed. Finally there was her dying in Brooke's arms. Unlike many fans, I do feel it was absolutely right to have Stephanie and Brooke together in that scene. But I didn't think the mood was right (the whole "sing to me, baby girl" thing). There should have been some tension left between then, right until the very end.

Just out of curiosity, where do you see the Thorne character going (post 1989) if, hypothetically, there had been no recast?

I do feel that the introduction of Sally Spectra in episode 452 breathed new life into the show. The Logans - other than Brooke - had become increasingly isolated (basically just serving as a dating pool for the Forresters) and it was wise to introduce a new group of characters with a more natural common ground with the Forresters outside of the romantic possibilities.

Thank you so much for the uploads! One strange thing happens to me when I go into the last 1992 folder and the first 1993 folder: When I open the folders, they contain 3 less files than it says that they should contain. For example, the Episodes 1426-1449 folder appears to be full (24 files) when viewed from the "outside", but when I open it, it stops at 1446 and there are only 21 files. Has anyone else had this problem? Or is it just some kind of delay before the files show up in the folder? EDIT: Never mind, apparently there is a delay before the files show up! I can see them now!

By the way, do we know anything about the Videoland episodes? Will there be no new uploads? (if so, let's hope the official channel keeps going!)

I think if Brooke was a (flawed) heroine, so was Stephanie. They were both manipulative and scheming from the start, and willing to do anything to achieve their goals. And their points of view are always on full display, making both of them protagonists, depending on your perspective. But both of them are more like anti-heroines to me. They are both complex and determined, but not conclusively good or bad since both of them have an "ends justify the means" morality. This determination sometimes pays off and sometimes it backfires. So it kind of depends on your definition of heroine. I think there have been several other "heroines" in B&B. Out of the women Brooke's age, Caroline, Taylor and Macy all had traits that would make them qualify (i.e. being major characters whose moral alignment leans towards the "good" side). But interestingly, I find it really hard to think of a "hero" in B&B.

I don't think Brooke was necessarily the heroine. But I think the writers must have seen very early on that the rivalry between Brooke and Stephanie was where they struck gold. So that became central to the show.

I don't really see the significance. Hunter Tylo's leaving in 2002 was only for a few years. Then she was back. I never saw her as the show's "main star" even when she was on the show, so I don't really see what magic those few additional years would have worked. The thing is, Taylor was never that central to the show. She left several times and the show went on. But then again, I am one of those who just simply never saw the appeal of the Taylor character. She always seemed kind of wooden to me. Re-watching now (currently at late 1991), I am really trying to give her a chance, since I've changed my perception of several other characters already when seeing them the second time around, but so far, she leaves me cold, as does Tridge. I actually think out of all the men she has interacted with so far, Ridge is the one she has the least chemistry with. I just keep seeing how when they are supposed to kiss and so on, Taylor's hand keeps popping up like a stop sign between their bodies.

I agree with you about Clarke Garrison! He is thoroughly enjoyable because his undoing is so clearly a result of his overconfidence (and this is a running theme in all of his storylines). I feel like he is an almost mythologically inspired character trope in that regard - the man whose strength (his arrogance, cleverness and charm) also is the root of his downfall. Seeing Clarke painting himself into corners and then trying to get out of them is a lot of fun. As for Margo's pregnancy, I believe the reason it was written that way was that Lauren Koslow was already pregnant and they had to find a way to write it in without shortening the pregnancy too much. I agree the reveal was something of a surprise but not entirely out of left field.

I agree with this! The premise of pairing Rick with a trans woman could have been groundbreaking. But there were three major mistakes in the storytelling. The first was doing this reveal about a character whose backstory included a pregnancy and searching for the child she gave up for adoption. The second was making the storyline too conflict-free. Maya met with virtually no resistance and ended up getting her every wish fulfilled without even having to fight for it (since all of her struggles had already taken place off screen before we met her). The third was introducing Maya as the heroine in this storyline when she was already in the middle of another storyline where she and Rick were the villains, and then painting other characters' legitimate dislike of Maya as transphobic, as if her being trans suddenly made her immune to criticism.

When she went after Thorne. That was really the eye-opener for me. And then, going back to watch the show from the beginning, I saw her in a completely different light, noticing things about her that I missed the first time around and how she wasn't at all the heroine I had thought she was. By the way, interesting to notice that so far, the only characters who made it on everyone's list are Sally and Thorne!

Female: 1. Macy (though perhaps a less "important" character than some of the names further down my list, I always found her the most relatable) 2. Sally 3. Stephanie 4. Sheila 5. Brooke (I don't actually like Brooke, at least not anymore, but I just think she is too important to the show to leave out) Honorable mentions: Darla, Aly, Stacy the waitress Male: 1. Thorne 2. CJ 3. Clarke (I didn't feel that way before, but rewatching old episodes with him now, I have gained a whole new appreciation for him - he is hilarious in all his glorious unapologetic arrogance) 4. Deacon 5. A tie between Ridge and Eric (for the same reasons as Brooke above) Honorable mentions: Saul, Mike, Rocco, Charlie

B&B: Sheila and Deacon.

I know, that scene is priceless! I have to wonder if that was scripted or if it was a blooper that was just so good they left it in there.

Thank you so much! I was so excited to see them in the Vault!

I wouldn't say all of 1994-1996 were slow on B&B (in fact, some of my favorite storylines are from those years, and 1994 to mid 1995 the show was great IMO). But IIRC there was a noticeable dip after the summer of 1995 after they happened to have ALL the major storylines resolve and end almost at the same time (Ridge made his choice between Brooke and Taylor, Thorne was let out of jail and Anthony was arrested for murdering Ivana, Sheila attempted suicide and got locked up). The show was kind of slow for a while after that.