Videnbas

To me, Caroline was a complex character. She started out innocent and idealistic, and then gradually had to learn the hard way that nothing in the world is as perfect as it first seems - including herself. Caroline's whole story arc is about disillusionment and acceptance. A series of tough awakenings and coming to terms with them. First Ridge's cheating, then encountering evil in the form of a sexual predator, then learning about the dark side of her father's business, and finally learning about her own repressed "forbidden" desires. And Caroline had to face the reality of who she was and all the damage she had caused by repressing her true feeling.

I am just catching up on this year's B&B, and in case anyone missed it, Sheila swapped a couple of labels on a couple of champagne bottles, leading to Brooke and Deacon sharing a drunken kiss on New Year's Eve. So I started counting the references to those *beep* champagne bottles and that *beep* New Year's Eve kiss. In January 2022 alone (20 episodes), the show felt it was necessary to have a total of 9 flashbacks of Sheila and her champagne bottles. And it was also absolutely necessary to have no less than 22 flashbacks of Brooke and Deacon on New Year's Eve (trust me, I counted). And that's not even counting all the times the events of that night were discussed by characters on the show.

The story itself is not very well represented on Youtube, only bits and pieces here and there, but there is this clip from the funeral scene. It doesn't get much soapier than Stephanie Forrester roaring "WHO THE HELL IS IN THE COFFIN!".

I only watch B&B, but the storyline that stands out for me is Macy's first death in 2000. It was built kind of like a classic tragedy - her fate was essentially sealed six months in advance in Venice, ironically through a scheme designed to save another character (Stephanie) from dying. And from that point on, the whole chain of events was set in motion towards inevitable catastrophe, fueled by the inescapable character flaws of everyone involved. The result was that when Macy died, virtually every single major cast member played a part in causing her death. The confrontation that followed at the funeral was one of the most intense scenes the show has ever done. And there was also a nice sense of poetic symmetry in how the story began and ended exactly the same way - with Macy making an impulsive journey in pursuit of Thorne to warn him about Brooke.

Yes, I'm currently watching Karen's introduction storyline and she is a "well-developed undeveloped character". That is, she comes on the show almost as a "blank slate", this girl who hasn't had much life experience, and she's caught up in Blake's agenda to turn her into a second Caroline. She doesn't have a strong identity of her own, instead trying to emulate Caroline's identity, but that chameleon-like quality in itself is her identity. She is basically manipulated into giving up any sense of independent self she has in order to copy somebody else. And the fact that she is vulnerable to that kind of mind games really says a lot about her character - her sense of loss after learning of the sister she found out too late that she had. And so she is groomed to become a cheap imitation of Caroline, but this is not a result of poor writing but a result of good writing as we see Blake's scheme on full display, along with the factors that make Karen ready to go along with it.

We still have Caroline's twin sister. If the show wanted to bring back the Spencers, why not let Karen be the one running the publishing empire instead of some son we never heard about (and still to this day his existence has not been explained - we don't even know who his mother is or where he fits into the Spencer family timeline). Karen still owns 50% of SP and we NEVER hear it mentioned.

I think Felicia's working for Spectra was a pretty well developed storyline. She was there for several years and her motivation for (and against) working for "the enemy" was explored. Sally and Felicia had an interesting dynamic where the friction between them, and Sally's tough demands on her, actually pushed Felicia to develop as an artist, almost in spite of herself.

I can't really answer about Erica since I never watched AMC regularly, but as for Stephanie, I'd say no. You can't "eat" the show if you ARE the show. Stephanie was always central to the premise of the show and she is basically what made the show what it was. Besides, Stephanie never felt like the writers' "pet project" or "shiny new toy" the way characters like Amber or Hope did. Stephanie was simply the glue that held it all together.

Does anyone have any news on the Videoland episodes? It’s been a while and I remember reading a post from one of the uploaders that the account he had been using to access the site was no longer active. I hope someone will be able to continue eventually because these 1993 episodes are so hard to find and really the show's golden era IMO!

Oh yes, the Amber years! That was the first character I felt Brad Bell got a little too invested in (the second being Hope).

I think Brooke is another example of negative character development. She used to have a whole professional side to her character that has been completely lost in later years.

B&B: Hope/Liam/Steffy

Wow, that's a great question! Caroline started out as an ingénue, and gradually developed more layers and shades of grey as her initial idealism clashed with the real world and her own real emotions. Sally started out as a two-dimensional over-the-top villain, but the longer she was on the show, the more layers started showing. We got to see her humorous side, her affection for her employees, her love for her daughter, her vulnerability to Clarke, and so on. The on screen development of her close relationship with Macy was also beautifully done.

I actually saw it the opposite way - with the introduction of the Spectras (which coincided with the phasing out of the Logans), the show *found* its heart. I saw a much warmer camaraderie and more solid family loyalty with the original Spectra core gang (Sally, Macy, Saul, Darla) than I ever did with the Logans. The Logans had just as much internal conflict as the Forresters in those early days (Donna flirting with Rocco while setting him up with Katie, Grandma and Beth at odds over Beth's affair with Eric, the family basically being divided into two opposing camps over Stephen's return, and eventually Brooke's relationship with her mother's "true love"). Besides, the "close Logan family" was not sustainable anyway because we were introduced to them at a point in time when all the kids were about to "leave the nest". That was bound to change the dynamic. I agree the show got more dynamic around 1989. And yes, out of all the characters, Stephanie is the one that has truly had a "negative" character development. She started out incredibly complex and then gradually started *losing* layers. Her subtlety in the early years was a joy to watch. At the end, she was a shadow of her former self.

I also think of 2002/2003 as the end of the "golden era" of B&B. The last time the show was truly great in my opinion was the wonderful Portofino/Camogli location shoot. To me, the introduction on Nick and Jackie in 2003 marked a clear shift in the focus of the show (the Spectras started being phased out and were replaced with the Marones).

True - it IS strange that Storm never got a romance. Also B&B: I think they should have done more with Bridget and CJ (and with CJ, period. His romantic storylines were always so short-lived and he usually ended up dumped or widowed within a couple of months).

Ooh, I'm keeping my fingers crossed someone will be able to upload! I have been wanting to rewatch this part of B&B for decades! 1993-1995 is probably my all time favorite era of Bold.

It's funny, I have really come to reevaluate the Stephanie/Brooke relationship after watching these early shows from the beginning up until 1992. I used to believe Brooke was in love with Ridge and tried to win him, and Stephanie was dead set against it and did everything she could to keep them apart. Instead, I have just watched Stephanie spending the better part of the first five years of the show (starting in late 1988, then most of 1989, about half of 1990, all of 1991, and the beginning of 1992) scheming and plotting in favor of a Brooke/Ridge pairing, while Brooke keeps self-sabotaging her prospects to win Ridge (and lashing out at Stephanie when Stephanie points this out to her). It has really turned my preconceived notions upside down to see how most of Stephanie's manipulations in those early years actually involved getting Brooke and Ridge together in order to achieve other goals (Thorne not killing Ridge, Stephanie getting Eric back). On a side note - I am watching Faith's/Karen's introduction storyline at the moment and at first I found this Bonnie Roberts character annoying but now she is growing on me. There is just something hilariously creative about making a "tough librarian" character...

Who did that?

I agree with all of these! Brooke could possibly work as a recast (after all, they recast Taylor and Ridge, and there have already been two other actresses temporarily playing Brooke), but that would mean losing one of only two remaining original cast members and I'd hate to see that happen. The other three are just so iconic there is no way they would work as a recast. As for past B&B characters, I would also count Macy as a difficult recast because so much of her character was built on her (very recognizable) singing voice. In the other category, "recast roles that shouldn't be recast again", I would count Thorne. The first three were good, but the fourth Thorne did not work, and I think an adult role that has been recast that many times really doesn't need a fifth portrayer.

😂 I am still trying to wrap my head around that one. I guess we should be glad Casey isn't a doctor: "I never said he was going to die, I just said he wasn't going to make it." Or a teacher: "I never said you failed the test, I just said you didn't pass." Or a prison guard: "I never said you have to stay in here forever. I just said you're never getting out."

So true! That is one death I am still having trouble accepting. Aly had so much potential and was more complex than any other young female on the show at the time. She was an intriguing mix of innocence and darkness, with a quirkiness that set her apart. And the actress didn't really get to show her true range until Aly's exit storyline in which she was absolutely brilliant. She could have become a force to be reckoned with on the show, driving storyline for years to come. And all they had to do was send her away to a mental hospital to recover (or better yet, show us her learning to cope with her illness on screen, as a real storyline for Thorne and Aly). That's all. There was no need to kill her off since she was still viable. I was also waiting for someone, somewhere, to tell her the truth about Darla, and for that to be the wake-up call that made her realize that the "moral avenger" Darla she hallucinated was not real, and that the real Darla was human, not a saint, but a good and fun-loving person who would have wanted Aly to enjoy life to the fullest.

I agree there's not a lot of chemistry between Kristen and Mick. But it seems to me Mick is a short term character and was never intended to be a romantic lead. He was needed to move the plot along. I think the show needed to cut Clarke away from Forrester and align him firmly with the Spectras in order to set up a long term rivalry between the two fashion houses. Having Kristen dump him for Mick achieved that, and gave Clarke a bitterness towards the Forresters that he wouldn't have had if he had been the one to cheat. Mick also served a secondary purpose in developing Macy's character and bringing Sally and Macy closer together. (Especially Macy having her heart broken by him was important because it both paved the way for her and Thorne, and made her rely heavily on her mother for comfort - possibly Macy's two most character-defining factors.)

Wait, so let me get this straight (I am behind watching the current B&B episodes). Sheila shoots two people and leaves them for dead because she is afraid someone will find out she glued a couple of labels to a couple of bottles? The next time I have fruit flies in my kitchen I'm just going to burn the house down. That'll show them.

Exactly. On the one hand, Jake had probably the strongest motive and the best opportunity, on the other hand we were shown his point of view afterwards and it strongly implied he was lying when he confessed. But the only other character that seemed plausible as I recall was Clarke and there was really not much to imply he did it. Unless it was really a nameless burglar with a soft spot for Spectra, which makes even less sense.