Planet Soap

Did the writers ever question how low they were willing to drag the charachter? The dead baby lie would have been the end of alot of charachters but Todd kept going and Blair kept forgiving! (What a shame Jack Manning turned out to be later in life). Inspite of it all I must conceed in that Cassie and Roger had great chemistry from 00-03. The dead baby lie plot and it's live week conclusion remain one of my all time favorite OLTL storylines. Next to the rape that had to be the second most heinous thing Todd got away with.

What are your general feelings toward the charachter of Todd Manning? I found Howarth to be superior to St John in the role, St John gets his props though! I also liked that Howarth managed to make the charachter humorous in 98 and 00-03, despite the sick things he was doing like faking DID and giving away a baby. This in comparison the the outright angry Todd from 92-95. When St John first came on I liked that he was animated (almost as if he were trying to mirror Howarth) but once he settled in, the charachter became just heinous. When he did things like beat up Cole, bully Langston, push Starr off the boardwalk, and help Jack get away with killing "GG", the charachter became unlikeable. Even worse, Blair and Starr kept falling into the habitual forgiveness rut with the charachter. (Howarth's 2011 return basically negated the latter but still..) Todd's crimes almost hit harder than those of say Stefano Dimera being that they were somewhat realistic. Leading a gang rape, selling a baby because you thought it wasn't yours and so on. Hell, he makes Sonny Corinthos look soft!

IMO Guza under Riche beats Guza under Phelps. Guza in general beats anyone who's been writing GH post 2014, and that's an unfortunate statement considering the damage he did to that soap. Growing up in the 2000s, I thought GH was the bomb until I watched older episodes online and realized what I was watching was a far cry from what came before. The contrast between 90s and 00s GH became fully evident to me when I saw numerous classic episodes during the 50th anniversary marathon. Case and point, the mob plots had more weight and impact to me from 93-95ish, I believe under Levinson then Labine. The mob stuff was wayy more serious with plots like breaking Frank Smith out of jail, and Luke's house getting shot up. There were earthy concequemces and not as much of the glorification of Sonny as we see today. The mob plots today lack any sort of dramatic impact, they're almost comical to say the least. The last time any mob drama hit hard for me was when Michael got shot in 2008, or the Metro Court fiasco in 07.

I wanna know why they fired Riche in favor of soap killer Phelps aswell? Speaking of Luke and Laura I enjoyed them under Labine in the 90s because they appeared more domesticated than their action adventure plots in the 80s. However, 95-02 basically shat on Luke and Laura with the mob violence, Nickolas' intro, Stefan, the rape revisitation, Lucky's death and the Felicia affair. Not to mention Laura going mad in 02. I liked some of those plots but it's interesting how it basically destroyed the couple.

On that note, alot of DTS commemtators cite Luke and Laura's Ice Princess saga as the turning point of soaps from a theater play like tv drama to over the top plots. Guiding Light, DAYS, and ATWT especially seemd to be influenced by this, particularly in the 80s. Wondering if you all agree?

I see GH released another classic episode collection on abc's website. Would it kill Y&R to give the fans a little something? Something along the lines of a 45 episode online collection for their anniverary would have been cool like GH had on SOAPnet for their 50th. It is what it is at this point I suppose. I really enjoyed dark lighting and the ornate camera movements y&r used to have. It realy set the shadowy and dramatic tone for the show.

I noticed this too! Somewhere after 1998ish it seemed Stephanie stopped trying to be the glamorous self she was earlier on. I grew up with gray haircut Stephanie but when I saw what she looked like in the late 80s-mid 90s on youtube I was surprised it was the same person! To a certain extent the problem with Stephanie & Katherine Chancellor on Y&R is that they became too obsessed with the life of their nemesis...Brooke/Jill. It was fun to watch but slightly pathetic after a while. At least with Stephanie Brooke's endless hoeing gave fuel for Stephanie's constant vitriol. But with Katherine the constant martyring of Phillip for YEARS was questionable given that she drove him away and killed him, plus Rex Sterling was a waaay better husband...but that's for the Y&R thread lol. Aside from what Stephanie became the show isn't worth watching at all without her!

Really hope the reboot rumors are true because OLTL was the best! When would you all consider the last great era for OLTL? I liked the 70s, 92-96, and 01-02 especially. 1996 was the cut off point for prime quality OLTL for me. I will say that the Tomlin era had great momentum with Live Week, Todd/Blair, Norah & Lindsay, moreover though Ron C/ Frank V years really eroded the show's quality, OLTL managed stay action packed right up till the 2012 finalie.

I second what someone said earlier...I prefer Brenda Epperson as Ashley. Likewise, I'm surprised Amelia H. has lasted so long as Victoria. Heather Tom had a strong energy, but it seemed they somewhere along the line the writers didn't know what to do with her and post David Kimble Nina. The Cole/Ryan debacle dragged on for a while. Also not feeling Jason Thompson as the current Billy. Billy Miller or David Tom were the best in that role, IMO. From the clips and episodes posted it does seem that Y&R lost steam between 1994-1996 but really picked back up around 97-98 and kept that strong momentum going till about 2001. The Billy/Mac teen seen, Tricia, The Winters, Nikki vs Diane were all great during that era. Similarly, B&B cooled down around 95 but got good again from 98-02.

Unfortunately the Brandon Densen YouTube channel finnaly got shut down. He had over 50 y&r clips spanning 1998-2001. Idk if someone had an email of his or something to get him to post his videos directly to this thread? SB: Why is Sony so stingy with copyright? They hardly ever re-air classic episodes, so why the fuss about posting clips to YouTube. Would they rather years of classic episodes sit in the vaults and rot? Meanwhile one can pull up abc soaps and the the p&g CBS soaps like nothing.

I'm surprised Sheila never made it into the Y&R opening sequence in the 90s or 2005. If Lynn, Esther and Carroll could make it in, surely a major character like Sheila could have. At least she had a beauty shot in the B&B opener.

Y&R was on fire during this era! The clip and a few episodes recently posted really go back to the previous discussion of how separated the characters are on the show. Phyllis who'd been in town since '94 apparently meets Jill for the first time in 2000. Likewise during the Kay/Jill attic fight episode, I believe Victor learns Michael sexually harassed Christine a whole five years after the fact. Even in a 2005 episode uploaded, Michael was just finding out about Lauren & Sheila even though he was in town during major portions of those story lines. The separation element was cool and unique though.

If Kimberlin ever comes back I think she would be better utilized on Y&R, minus the campy cartoon aspect and more of the character development she got on B&B. A person "on edge" who could function as a long-term character like Lindsay on OLTL, rather than a constantly revived supervillain who only appears in stints like James Stenbeck or Mitch Lawrence. For me, Sheila's grandest storylines were on Y&R while her best character development was on B&B. One could only imagine if Sheila and Victor crossed paths what storyline we could have gotten! (Given only if Bill Bell wrote it).

Watching the 2007 episodes recenly posted. I finally got to see how the whole Pheila fiasco played out....God have mercy, who allowed this to air? Michelle Stafford---love her as Phyliss, pre overacting---was cringeworthy as "Sheila". At the very least Brad Bell basically erased that trash when Kimberlin returned to B&B in 2017 (that storyline within itself was another problem, but at least we got real Sheila back). Overall, Sheila had decent storyline up to 2002, and her 2005 plot was decent.

Great to finally see more Eva Longoria content with the 2003 episodes. Had to grin at the rediculous amount of times they made Cricket & Lauren face off with a deranged character. Lauren alone dealt with Shawn, Sheila, Sarah, Kevin, Rush?, Tom Fisher, Daisy/Ryder, even Carmine. Not to mention Christine dealing with Derek, David Kimble, Michael, Phyliss, Isabella, etc... Lol, the writers just unloaded on them.

Thankyou!!!!!!

Agreed. The show was at least good until 05, somewhat decent up to 06/07ish, and bareley watchable up to 2012. Anything after Jill Pharen Phelps took over has been unwatchable. I loved 89-93 for the great storlines and 95 to about 01 especially for the aestetics. The show had their lighting, directing and background music formula down pat! The early 2000s in general seems to be the cut off point for quality where soaps are concerned.

does someone have the episode or scenes where kay and jill find out they're mother and daughter? or any portion ofthe Veronica Landers storyline?

Its striking to think of Brenda Epperson and Eileen Davison's Ashley as the same charachter. As Im sure someone said before I couldn't imagine Brenda Epperson's version fighting with Victoria over cole or involved in the sperm fiasco. Brenda's bersion was nice, calm, classy and well put together (aside from the Blade/Rick aftermath). Eileen's was more---for lack ofa better term---posessive of that "vixen like " quality. Overall, loved both actreses in the role. SB: Brenda was and still is STUNNING. Eileen more so after her 1999 return

Might be in the minority here, but are there any classic viewers who preferred Michelle Stafford over Gina T? Much like I cannot accept Amelia H as Victoria, Gina just dosen't click with me as Phyliss (though she is far more compotent than Amelia). Even if Michelle S has acting quirks, its hard to imagin anyone else playing that role. If anyone had to play Phyliss again, Sanda Nelson was very solid in the late 90s. SB: Its intresting to see just how different the show is between the '97 and '04 episodes. By 2004 it seems the show was deglamorized compared to 97, and opted for less ornate and "artistic" camera movement/directing that made the show IT in the 90s. Yet in the 2001 clips the show still has that 90s spark compared to just 3 years later.

branden densen has been posting great y&r clips mostly from around 2001, centering Diane Jenkins. Its great to see Alex Donnely in full villainess mode. Hoping there are more full 2001 episodes out there somwhere especially with Alex & Susan's Diane. Cashcrateworks had about two 2001 episodes that were taken down. Hopefully Brandon heeds my advice in the comments to disguise his video titles before cbs/sony reaks their usual havoc. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCDnuQ5ekHu53D0uAtiZiKaQ

Agreed. The disregard for multi generational storytelling sucks. It's unfortunate that actors often get put out to pasture after a certain age where storyline is concerned (though Y&R still seems to utilize older actors ex. Eric Braden in his late 70s). ATWT was really great with the multi generational aspect. I like that they had Nancy then the Bob/Lisa/Kim etc.. generation on one front, then the Lilly, Carly, Holden, Jack crowd, and the even younger generation of actors, on the other. I wish GH could have just pulled something out of their hat and resurrected Tony, Alan, or even Emily and Justus by now. If they could do a 180 and resurrect Jake and AJ then certainly this could have been done. (Though they shouldn't have been killed in the first place).

Amen!!! Its loyalty not quality thats keeping the audience at this point

the good: y&r: Brenda Epperson as Ashley, Sandra Nelson as Phyliss, Jess Walton as Jill (Brenda Dickson was the best though), Peter Bergman as Jack (debatable), Sharon Case as Sharon, Melody Thomas Scott as Nikki oltl: Kassie Depavia as Blair, Bree Williamson as Jessica (debatable) gh: Tamera Braun & Laura Wright as Carly (Sarah Brown was the best though), Sean Keenan as AJ, Leslie Charleson as Monica b&b: Ashley Jones as Bridget the bad: y&r: Burgess Jenkins as Billy, Gina Tognoni as Phyliss (debatable), Darius McCary as Malcolm, Amelia Heinle as Victoria (Heather Tom had way more spark in the role) gh: Jennifer Bransford as Carly, Billy Miller as Jason, Roger Howarth as Franco 80s Dynasty: Emma Samms as Fallon.

Y&R seems to almost have no hesitation with that, they axed Cassie, Ryan, John, Diane, and Rex all in a mostly permanent manner with little loophole for the charachters to return. Imagine if Ron Carlivati and Frank Valentini got their hands on Y&R....Diane, Ryan, John Abbott, Tricia, Rex, would have magically risen from the dead and randomly returned, and Mari Jo would have escaped from the psyc ward, lol