j swift

6 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I've got many old soaps from the 1960s and '70s on audio.

I'm just curious because it seems like an ingenious solution to a pre-vcr/pre-dvr era, how did you audiotape the soaps in the 60's and 70's?

I watched GL from the time of Roger's return with Alexandra Spaulding but, after reviewing the posts on this thread tonight, I went back and read about Rita Stapleton (Bauer). 

In re-reading the history I was struck by two issues: (1) It's interesting that the feud shifted from Roger/Ed to Roger/Alan; I know Roger and Alan had earlier issues but it seems to me that Ed was never driven by his hatred upon Roger's return; as much as he was in the 70's.  Ed lost a lot to Roger over the years but once Roger was nice to Maureen everything seems to have been forgotten between the two. (2) The Bauers moved next door to the Spauldings when Ed married Rita but the Bauer house went from a Spanish design with a red tile roof (as seen when Kelly lives and swims there) to a Colonial design when Ed and Rick start doing the Bauer barbecue?  Did the Marler's also live nearby?  Did anyone ever takeover the Wexler estate?

As an audience we lost a sense of who lived where and which parts of town were the nicest in Springfield over the years.  I assumed by the size of the kitchen and the decor of the living room in the 1990's that Ed lived in Bert's old house, not next door to a mansion.

Silly question:  In the 1981 recap, the point is made that when Steve Frame comes back Rachel's son wants to be known as "James"; when did he go back to being Jamie?

39 minutes ago, danfling said:

Vicki's Aunt Gwendolyn (Joan Copeland) to marry Richard Abbott

I remember that Tony Lord's Mother was Eugenia Lord's sister but is she Gwendolyn or was that another Aunt?  Given that Tony grew up with his mother I wonder if he knew Richard or Vicki when he was a teenager?

There remains historical characters that I always conflate:

Melinda Cramer and Meredith Lord, both tragic sisters of main characters and I forget which one died all the time

Katrina and Edwina; it may be that they rhyme or that they were both introduced around the time of Vicky's trial for Marco's murder but I never remember the difference between those two.

14 hours ago, Dax7000 said:

Viki inviting Pat Ashley or someone to move in. She said the property had stables, tennis courts, an east wing that had about 12 rooms.

Llandfair also had a family crypt, a pool with cabanas, and at least one secret room.

Of course it was mostly represented by the foyer and sitting room.  Although what was outside of the sitting room changed over time.  At one point it was gardens, I recall when Cousin Richard lived there that the pool was right outside of the sitting room and then when Ben fell out of the window of the sitting room it seemed to have moved to the second floor; but my memory is not as good as some.

On 6/1/2018 at 7:49 AM, Cat said:

Bethenny is tone-deaf, and her blog this week purposely ignores any concerns raised by Carole or Dorinda. Like I said before, though, it's been a long time coming. For +3 years, Bethenny had hiring/firing power behind-the-scenes (Heather, Jules, and very nearly Ramona last year), and she treats the other women onscreen like they work for her, too. She is incredibly self-centred. A lot of this is linked to the way her mother treated her growing up, of course. This season, the other women are forcing her to take a hard look at her attitude, but judging by this see-no-evil, hear-no-evil blog she coughed up, doesn't seem like she is willing to confront these issues any time soon. 

The scene when Bethenny is sitting around at the end of her Christmas party and she jokes that she is getting "Ho" sweaters for next year's party for Ramona, Tinsley and Sonja made me cringe.   She is so desperate to make a connection, while still trying to push everyone away, and she doesn't get her head out of her own ass long enough to realize that Tinsley and Ramona don't like her, and a sweater with Ho written on it is not going to help.

Also, Southern Charm had an amazing week.  Ashley is straight out of a soap opera.  When she berated Katherine about the kids I recalled when Y&R's Sheila called Lauren for a play date for their kids and then said that she "forgot" Lauren's son was dead.  When Ashley told Thomas that they were "stuck together for life" and he made a face to the camera it was straight out of when Scott Granger would roll his eyes over Sheila's obsession of him.  Finally, when Ashley offended Shep it reminded me of how Y&R's Sheila craziness came out when she talked to Paul.  I hope Ashley doesn't try to swap a baby or get plastic surgery to try to assume Katherine's life like Sheila did....

12 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

Pilar Lopez Fitzgerald

I always thought that the family's non-hyphenate surname became a missed opportunity for humor.  Characters said their full last name so often that the audience began to think of Lopez Fitzgerald as a one name.  However, it may have been amusing if the youngest one was an Irish looking redhead ( the Latin gene was dominant in that family).  I wish they started using Theresa's full name including her married names.  Finally, it would have been funny if the family still celebrated St. Patrick's day and Pilar made an amazing corned beef and cabbage while humming Gordan Lightfoot's The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald   

1 hour ago, SFK said:

Asa's mansion was called Moorclif

I thought Moorcliff was where Olympia Buchanan was held captive?

8 hours ago, danfling said:

Jenny and Brad lived in the carriage house

And why did Jenny and Brad live at Llandfair?  I'm trying to think of Jenny's relationship to Vicky and I can't recall why she would invite Jenny to live there; especially with Brad (although he always looked good in tennis shorts). 

On 5/30/2018 at 8:04 PM, DaytimeFan said:

Ramona gave me my favourite moment of the night when she didn't back down for one hot second in that telephone call with Bethenny.

I loved this episode so much that I watched it 2.5 times.

I have always rooted for Ramona but I really cheered for her in this episode.  She has been through a great deal of disappointment but she remains an optimist.  I can relate to the joy that one feels when you are angry but still able to craft a response that is concise and cunning.  Just like the famous scene on the Brooklyn Bridge, Ramona read Bethenny for filth.  Given that Ramona's predictions on the bridge about Bethenny's marriage turned out to be more valid that any psychic from Beverly Hills, or Morocco, Bethenny would be wise to listen to her.  However, there was some noticeable editing upon second review when you consider that there was probably only one camera but there are a a series of different close-ups and quick cuts.

I know it is an unpopular opinion but I admire that Ramona goes through life asking for exactly what she wants.  The only thing she really judges is when the other women don't directly ask to get their needs met.  If you are Ramona, why be coy when you get an artist and his friend to move your furniture?  She thinks we are all dumb for not asking for what we want when we have the opportunity and as I long as I don't have to do things for Ramona I can admire it from afar.

Also, when they travel, the other ladies always fight with Ramona about the master suite.  However, their only argument seems to be that Ramona shouldn't always be able to get what she wants.  I think that's a shitty a way to treat a friend because they argue that she doesn't deserve it by virtue of wanting it; that is a circular argument.  She is always willing to share the room and there would be less drama if they would consider her feelings.

Regarding Bethenny and Dorinda, that went quickly into the weeds as well.  Dorinda was not asking for a written thank you for the nutcracker.  However, Bethenny's inability to read a room is astounding.  I get it that we are watching with background music and close-ups but, the ladies had an obvious reaction to Bethenny's response and she could not pick up the cues. 

Speaking of cues, I don't think Luann gets how to reconnect with the ladies post divorce.  It is not about who was right or if they should have judged Tom.  It was, as Carole mentioned, Luann conflated her friends' concern with jealousy.  In my opinion, that is what requires an apology.

I love that from the Mystery Dinner to the White Elephant Exchange these ladies can't play a game together successfully. 

I don't like that Bethenny thinks it is amusing to joke about old stereotypes of lesbianism as a last chance for women incapable of maintaining relationships with straight men and gay men only function to make the lives of straight women more fabulous.  I think that type of humor is hackneyed and lacks sophistication.

Were the Sander's Mansion, Llanfair, La Boulaie, and the Buchanan Mansion all on the same street? 

Nope, according to Wikipedia, Llanfair was on 1177 Regency Drive. La Boulaie was on 56 Lincoln Street and the Buchanan's were over on 21 Riverside Drive.  I would have thought one of the perks of naming your estate was that you didn't need a street address.

I know Dorian bought La Boulaie from Marty Seybrook's Aunt but who named it?

I wonder why Asa never named his house?  As I recall, the Buchanan Mansion shape shifted a couple of times from it's original dark green interior to a brighter tone in 2000's.  Somehow, they also acquired a stable despite Llanview's urban setting?

Remember when Soap Opera Weekly or Digest would create fictional maps of the soap towns?  I loved having an image of the proximity between the sets.

42 minutes ago, danfling said:

Jenny and Brad lived in the carriage house at Llanview

I assume you mean Landfair (The Lord Estate) not Landview.

Was the carriage house set yellow with a greenhouse by the front door?

52 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Paul Kendall was just a babe, I wanted Pat to forget all about both Phillip McHale's bland Tony and John Mansfield creepy Adam

Agreed and, Paul was politically principled.  Tony was rather quick to claim his part of the Lord fortune and there was no mention of using that cash to help the poor.

Thanks for all of your historical knowledge.

With regard to Dorian/David/Cassie, the retconning of Cassie is so clumsy.  Today I was reading the recaps of Cassie's introduction.  She appears in town, Dorian agrees to let her stay, and nobody in town judges Dorian for having a secret European daughter?  The audience had known Dorian for a while so it seems odd that she would have kept this girl overseas for so long and never mention her.  Vicky and Asa's long lost kids came with tons of exposition.  Cassie just drops into town and then we find out that Dorian had another secret daughter (this time kept in Latin America) and again nobody judges Dorian for just dropping off kids in foreign countries and forgetting about them? 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

if anything, Tony was too trusting; he believed that the woman he had loved would not deceive him in such a cruel way. 

It is amusing that Tony's trust of women resulted in him being surprised about the existence of both his son and his father.  Dorian and Pat were savvy gals but it seems rather easy to pull one over on poor Tony.

It is also amusing that the character of Paul Kendall lasted longer in Landview than either Pat or Tony.  The third wheel in a soap triangle rarely outlasts the original pairing.

Did Jenny and Brad move into Pat's house when she left? 

21 minutes ago, Riverdalefan1 said:

Which character was the most wasted (i.e. had the most potential that was never realized).  On a show that never really wrote a character to their fullest potential, that's a tough one to answer.

I would have to say Grace and Charity.  I have always given any new soap a watch for at least the first year.  However, I remember that when I checked back in for the introduction of Paloma and the return of Martin that neither Grace nor Charity was on the show.  This was odd given that first year centered on those two characters. 

I have a hypothesis that as a writer it would be difficult to have both good and bad witches on the same show.  Once either Charity or Grace knew about their powers, which was inevitable, there wouldn't be soap plot that they couldn't immediately solve.  If murder mysteries, long lost children, and unrequited lovers could all be magically resolved there would be no dramatic tension.  So, that's my theory why all of the good witched were written out in the first few years and no other magical forces of good were ever introduced.

It does not explain the build up for the return of Martin that wound up not having any impact on the story.  Or the continuing references to Allister sexually abusing Theresa that turned me off Passions for good.

28 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I guess we would be surprised at how many female viewers were fooled. 

Looking back on the Vintage Soap Magazine Tumblr with the current perspective as a gay soap fan the coded language is so amusing.  Bachelors are single because (1.) their busy soap lives doesn't leave time for dating; despite their female co-star pregnant and engaged (2.) they pine for a love left behind in Europe (recently out Gordon Thompson used this line while on Santa Barbara, or (3) they love the single life which was commonly demonstrated through photos of them at home playing a musical instrument.

A few years ago, I met a former soap actor and we discussed what it was like to be closeted in the 70/80's on the soaps.  He remarked that most of the soap press was female and there was an unwritten rule that they wanted to continue the fantasy that a viable soap hunk had to be straight.  As a result, he was never asked about his private life.  They would discuss stories and plots, but he was never asked in an interview about his dating life.  In reality, he was out to his family and friends.  However, he was in a de-facto closet because nobody ever asked and the fans didn't really want to know.

Given that perspective I have no problem with the choices made by gay actors who were soap hunks and not given an opportunity to discuss their lives.  Nor do I fault the female fans who maintained a fantasy while being sold Prell Shampoo.  What I don't like, in retrospect, were roles given to older gay male actors.  They were always the ones carrying most of the gothic/sci fi stories in the 80's with maniacal laughter and weird lecherous behavior.  AMC and GL in particular were guilty of only hiring older gay actors to play bad guys.   

Men on soaps are dopes.

I was just reading the history of Pat Ashley.  She comes to town with a nine-year-old son and tells everyone that her presumed dead husband is the father.  Tony Lord had an affair with Pat ten years ago and grows close to Pat's son by playing chess.  Cathy Craig, who was never particularly bright or insightful, was dating Tony and instantly guesses that he is the father of Pat's son.

Now, are to believe that Tony Lord didn't know math or basic facts about conception?  Was Tony too busy playing chess to ask the boy's age?   The only explanation is that Tony was a dope.

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that Pat had a sister that was never mentioned when we met Pat's mother.  Maggie the sister was clearly created later, maybe even by another writer, because it seems odd that Pat's mother lived in a small apartment in New York while funding Maggie's life in London?  I love an evil twin but that one appeared out of thin air. 

It was as if OLTL was testing the waters with an outrageous story of twins (like Samantha & Marlena from Days) before they went really gothic with the Ralstons and Bo's long lost Mother.

3 hours ago, SoapDope said:

The same with Chris Robinson being married 4 times and been with many women. I take it CR had a lot of actresses hate him like RKK. 

I have been known to indulge in some soapy gossip over the years.  I recalled that Chris Robinson had money troubles because he over invested in some pop culture item like beanie babies.  So, I did a little research and it turns out that his son made a documentary about it.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1541622/

The odd thing about Chris Robinson stories is that there is plenty of material about GH but I've never heard anything about his time on AW backstage?

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Lee was high on LSD and crashed her car. I don't know if it was Rodell's choice to leave or not. She was actually the second actress to play Lee. Gaye Huston originated the role in 1964 and played it until 1967, which is when Rodell stepped in. She stayed until Lee was killed off in 1969.

I follow a vintage soap magazine Tumblr and just this weekend there was a story from one of the magazine about Lee's death and Rodell's exit.  In the story, they mention that Ms Rodell had recently gotten married and this was the reason given for her leaving the show.  However, the article was about how mad audiences get when a favorite character is killed off.  It is a reminder of what a different time it must have been to watch the soaps when there were no spoilers and every character's death was a surprise.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

It's to the very gonzo Malone 2003 regime's credit that they actually managed to reconcile this bizarre depiction of Kevin (along with Kelly), take ownership of some of it and rehabilitate the character.

I disagree that Malone rehabed the characters, instead he turned them into Yuppie-Kevin&Kelly.

As I recall, Kevin's motivation during the baby switch was his sycophantic loyalty to Asa and wanting to provide an heir.  As a result he turned his head while Kelly had her baby "out of town" and didn't ask many questions about Paul or his helicopter.  However, this was not Joe Riley-investigative-reporter's son nor was it already rich from Victoria Lord's son; who already had a son.  So, it didn't hold together; for me.  And Kelly's desperation to save her marriage also came out of left field for a character that knew Kevin was not the love of her life.

I could understand a Kevin-as-modern-Joe in relation with Skye because Joe liberated both Victoria and Cathy from being defined by their fathers and express themselves; Skye needed that.  I was reminded of Joe and Victoria when I watched The Post and I always thought it was a shame that Clint gave up working for The Banner.   After he went back in time, nobody remembered that Clint was once a writer.

By the way, if Malone didn't write the baby switch then I am going to borrow from Emily Lattellla/Gilda Radner and say "never mind." 

4. Bill Bell - modernized the genre, played with the form by using music, the first "showrunner" producer/writer, amazing story pacing (so slow and yet the stories progressed and twisted)

3. Agnes Nixon - the use of social class as a motivator for storyline defined why soap towns were so important to each soap.  Rich families were often the least happy and yet there was always someone who wanted to be a part of the power center of town.

2.  Ron Carlivati - not a classic writer but he introduced the notion that characters should remember and be effected by their history.  My favorite was when OLTL's Todd returned from the dead and was mad at his family for believing his brother's story and they reminded him that they bought it because of all of the other people they knew who had returned from the dead.

1.  Henry Sleasar - the run from Margo's murder through the Clown Puppet Murders and into Sky Whitney is an amazing feat in retrospect.  Edge stories had a distinct beginning, middle and end.  However, Sleasar's transitions from one story to the next is genius.  Draper is on the run from being convicted of Margo's murder, he meets Emily, gets exonerated, Emily gets jealous, her mother becomes a serial killer,  she tries to hang on to Draper by getting pregnant by a guy who worked at the clinic where Nancy Karr was being held and Jeff became Sky;  it all pieced together into one long tale.  Also, even though there were trials, Edge never relied on long exposition to explain a story.  Fans got clues along the way and at the finale of the story all of the parts made sense.

52 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I also think Jenna fulfilled the role that Lisa had provided for Felicia hence why I think Lisa was never recast.

Agreed but, I have issues with killing off Lucas too soon. The later attempt to revisit with the other character played by the same actor was also a bomb.

Lucas was interesting character and allowed Felicia to head her own insta-family.  He would have been a good Mac replacement as an older guy in town who was still a catch for single gals.  Although his mob involvement may have been an annoyance to me as a fan because I never enjoyed mob stories,  there were plenty of other avenues to explore.  He was also a good foil for the Harrison's and would have provided an interesting alternative power base.  Lucas could have had other kids, ex-wives, or other family members.  So, I really feel like his story potential was ruined by killing him soon.

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

Lisa leaving Bay City on the eve of her auntie Felicia's big 40th B-Day bash was strange. I just saw those clips recently. Lisa is offered a job in England. She has to start right away. Lisa should've been around during Felicia's murder trial

Isn't the problem with Lisa being at the trial that people would expect her to use her psychic powers to deduce the murderer?  Or, people would question why she couldn't have predicted the murder at the party?

There has been a lot of discussion about all of the Alice's but can we talk about the Matthew and Amanda's through the later years?

According to wiki we have Sandra Ferguson (1987–93, 1998–99); Christine Tucci (1993–95); Anne Torseglieri (1993); Laura Moss (1996–98).  Sandra was classic Amanda but her characterization wasn't always clear.  She was introduced as a spoiled socialite but Sam (and a baby) shamed her into being more grounded.  Then, Christine Tucci comes along and she looks more like Rachel's daughter but once again Amanda was a little wishy-washy.  It didn't help that she got caught up in the Harrison drama but didn't contrast well against Vicky.  Once Vicky had kids she became a heroine/damsel-in-distress.  Amanda played exactly the same purpose so she became the odd man out in the Harrison family story.  Then, there's Laura Moss.  It annoys me to this day that she played Amanda during Rachel's anniversary special.  I feel like this time they got the character right, Amanda was scheming and sexy, but the actress was wrong and poorly cast.

For Matthew we have; Matt Crane (1988–97, 1998–99); Brian Krause (1997–98); Jeff Phillips (1998).  Matt Crane's part of the intro fascinated me for years.  I couldn't figure out if he was air drumming or, playing with a yo-yo or, practicing nun-chucks?  His Matthew was charming and reflected all of Mac's best qualities.  Krause and Phillips were too gritty.  They both tried to imbue Matthew with an ennui that didn't fit with the character's upbringing.  

Unlike, Dennis or Jamie this generation of Cory's had no need for a chip on their shoulder.  Matthew and Amanda got plenty of attention growing up.  Their time in boarding school was just enough to SORAS the role.  However, neither had iconic stories due to a lack of consistent characterization.

Don't get me started on all of the Sam's

18 hours ago, YurSoakinginit said:

Taylor Miller had returned as Nina

Its odd that I don't recall any of the other Nina's but I can remember each of her wedding dresses.  The black and white ensemble at Tavern on the Green and the original one stick out in my memory.

Also, I am remembering correctly that Erica was not invited to Nina's first wedding because of her tiff with Phoebe over Mona marrying Dr. Tyler?  Also, why did Mona stay in the same house after her marriage?  I know Phoebe's side of the family had the big bucks but Dr. Tyler must have made a good living.  Does anyone recall if there were issues with Dr Tyler's will?