zanereed

Here's another option:

Whoops - very, VERY true! We're probably better off not knowing, then.

Thanks for posting that, Paul. I remember also reading that Stewart was going to record an album in the early 1970's, but I guess that never materialized. My grandparents saw Stewart live when he was touring the midwest in the early 1980's, and said he put on a heck of a show. They even got me an autographed picture of him for me, but I lost it years ago in a move. In a word, "No", as long as P & G owned it. Proctor and Gamble wanted out of the soap business as far back as when they first cancelled "Another World" in 1999 - it just took them another decade to finally succeed in putting the nail in the coffin for all of their soaps. TGL had no chance of surviving, and I'm surprised that it lasted as long as it did without good writing and a good EP to steer the ship. Perhaps if CBS owned the show, they might have tried harder to either retool it or figure out some way to breathe new life into it other than a sh*tty production model that P & G let happen. But, who knows? All I can say is that P & G did not care about the show at all during the 2000's.

My favorite theme would be "Ritournelle" (the theme used during the mid to late 1970's). As for writers, I still think The Dobsons were my favorite writers for TGL. There were other writers and eras I enjoyed, but the Dobsons' era is what I remember vividly, even though I was very young when I started watching.

Which would explain why it all went downhill towards the end of 1984. The "Dreaming Death" storyline was questionable (and was already told over 20 years prior to that on "Dark Shadows"), and "Tony and Annabelle's Haunted House/Susan Piper/Brandon Spaulding Back from the Dead" storyline was even worse. By the time 1985 rolled around, I didn't know what show I was watching any more. I do lay the blame more on Gail than Pam. Gail just wasn't a good fit for TGL, IMHO.

Ah, but I thought Rousell's Hope under Pam Long was written much better, unless that was a carryover from Browne or Culliton? I liked Hope with an alcohol problem, plus she finally had some spark to her. Too bad Rousell didn't want to play Hope that way, though. I'm not certain if the whole "Buzz and Hope" idea stems from Hope being played by Robin Mattson again, which would have put her with Deas yest again. But, as you correctly state @Mitch - that would have definitely made Hope a drunk...again .

I completely agree. Even with the loss of a great deal of long-term characters in 1983 (Sara, Adam, Justin, Amanda, Jennifer, Bill Bauer, Hope, etc.), there was still as much focus on the Bauers as anyone else at the beginning of 1984. Bert had her amputation story, Hillary was in the thick of things with the Dreaming Death (which I was was never a fan of) and then at the beginning of Susan Piper, Ed and Maureen were involved in all the goings-on at Cedars, and Rick was heavily featured with the storylines involving Phillip, Beth, Lujack and Mindy. Although Mike wasn't used heavily at the beginning, Pam was still using him as a supporting player in other stories before building up his love triangle with Alexandra and Lillian. Plus, as someone stated earlier, there still seemed to be a community there. When there were events, several of the cast were being utilized. Even with Alan gone by the summer, events were being set up that looked promising. By the fall, however, it completely loses steam. Without Mike or Alan around, the whole Brandon Spaulding reveal completely bombs. It has no weight to it because the cast involved (other than Alexandra) have zero to do with Brandon. Plus, as you stated, Hillary's death was useless in the long run. Maybe Marsha Clark would have eventually left to do something else, but I don't think she was looking to leave at that point. Plus, if she makes it to 1989 unscathed, as you stated @Soaplovers, she could have been used prominently in the "Roger returns" storyline, as she and Roger had a fling back in 1978. By the way, for those curious of how MIke and Lillian interacted, here's a sample from July 1984 (they have about three scenes together total):

Now THAT would have been a riot, especially if they did verbal "jabs" at each other (McKinsey would have excelled at this). Imagine the two of them solving Springfield mysteries together! Good point. That's the issue Harding Lemay had when he started at Another World, which is why he fought to have Walter killed for murdering Wayne Addison, and to have Steve imprisoned for bribery. I, too, thought that Ross and Hope would have a been a good couple, even when both Ross and Hope were on the canvas together in the 1980's. Imagine Hope leaving Alan and turning to Ross (a MARLER, and Phillip's bio-uncle!!!).

Agreed! Again, Mike and Roger definitely had history, too (besides Mike's history with the Spauldings). It wasn't only Ed and Roger that had issues. I wonder how Pam Long would have written Lillian if the Alex/Lillian/Mike triangle continued. Would Lillian have become a stronger character during this love triangle, or would she have remained the more demure character? Obviously that triangle would have spilled over to Beth/Lujack, but I wonder what the intended outcome would have been?

A scene of Alexandra and Mike: ...and another scene involving Mike, Lillian and Alexandra. Tina Sloan's subtle acting after Alex swaps up Mike cannot go unstated here: I think Mike and Alex would have been fun to watch, personally.

Great point. The number are definitely few and far between. Don Hastings was able to adjust as Bob Hughes shifted in his role, but part of that was Doug Marland finding interesting things to do with Bob, even if it wasn't all front burner material. I think in the case of Don Stewart, he tended to resist the "aging" of Mike Bauer. I think someone stated on here in a previous posting that Stewart was upset when Hope and Alan had Alan-Michael, as it then put Mike into "grandfather" status, which he did not want. However, as mentioned earlier, he missed out on a huge opportunity to be in front burner story line with a love triangle with Lillian and Alexandra.

Mike Bauer wasn't a "good guy" initially, either. He married Robin Lang while still a teenager (it was later annulled), which inadvertently led to the death of Karl Jannings. When he was in his early 20's, Mike pressured Julie Conrad into having sex before marriage (which she waiting for). He got Julie pregnant with Hope, but wanted Julie to give the baby up for adoption as he didn't want anything interfering in the pursuit of his law degree. Basically, Mike wasn't very noble with his attitude towards women at this point in his life. Of course, later on Mike had the infamous affair with Leslie Bauer while Leslie was still married to Ed. He had a rather chauvinistic attitude when Leslie wanted to return to college. He had another affair with Elizabeth Spaulding Marler while she was married to Justin. In my mind, both Mike and Ed Bauer both had their own issues. I just think Mike was probably the more stable of the two brothers. The other thing I thought of after watching some shows from 1979 last night - I wonder why they never tried pairing Mike Bauer and Sara McIntyre at all?

YES!!! It was 1989 (during the whole Roger returning storyline), and Phillip called Mike in DC to query about Adam Malek/Roger, or something to that effect. What I remember most about it was - as you say - the wrong type of voice for Mike, and also the odd bit at the start of their conversation that went something along the lines of, "Mike Bauer - hi, it's Phillip Spaulding. Do you remember me?" That line I howled at. It just seemed like an odd thing to say, since Phillip and Mike had such a strong history together - of course Mike would "remember" Phillip! I can't believe that Pam Long didn't purge, or at least alter that line. I also thought that they were getting ready to bring Mike back at that time to help investigate the Adam/Roger mystery, but for whatever reason, they decided not to. There were so many chances to bring Mike and Hope back over the years to continue playing off of story.. In my mind, Hope was Alan's one true love, and any capable actress could have played off of Ron Raines as a foil for Alan. Plus, the fact that they never seemed to address the "Bauer" side of Alan-Michael. I really wish Paul Rauch would have found a way to keep Stewart on in 1997, after he returned as Mike for the 60th Anniversary Celebration. Mike still knew many of the people in Springfield at the point (Alan, Alexandra [although now played by Marj]). I even loved the little "nod" of history by having Mike being escorted around the event at times by a gleeful Lillian (which was probably an idea of Tina Sloan's - she was so good at addressing those types of little things).

Agreed. Allen and McKinsey would have been fantastic together. I just don't think Stewart was ever happy with anyone that they paired him with (except, as you said, Deborah May as Renee DuBois, but I don't remember there being much chemistry between them, either). It's funny you mention Stewart and Reinholt. Both so similar during their time on their respective shows - they both debuted in 1968, both were in the top (or at least in the top 10) of favorite leading man polls in the various soap publications for years, and both were given major roles in their shows. However, it appears both had massive egos as they gained that popularity. Stewart probably lasted as long as he did on TGL with his attitude because he apparently didn't get involved in as heated disputes with the writers/producers as Reinholt had. Also, it's tough to believe now, but shows back then took huge stock in popularity polls, and Stewart was a huge attraction for TGL. I recall that the show did not want it revealed that Stewart was married in real life for several years, so as not to alienate his female fans. With that said, I did like Don Stewart's Mike Bauer (he's my avatar, after all). Mike was likable, charming, and he and Mart Hulswit were absolutely believable as brothers. My family loved him because he grew up in Nebraska (as we did). Plus, my grandparents loved Stewart's singing. I think had Stewart just cooperated in 1984 and gotten through the drudge of 1985, he would have eventually gotten good story again with the return of Alan.

As @teplin correctly states, Stewart considered the character of Alexandra "too old" for Mike Bauer, when in reality McKinsey and Stewart were the SAME AGE (McKinsey only being a few months older than Stewart). Therefore, he was unwilling to work the planned triangle between Lillian/Mike/Alexandra. That's a shame, because I do think McKinsey and Stewart had chemistry, and that pairing would have made for years of story. Consider Mike eventually marrying (or potentially marrying) Alan's sister, with so much bad history between Mike and Alan! That marriage alone would have been a great reason for Alan to return to Springfield (to either stop the marriage or contest it), as well as Hope (to stop her father from marrying a Spaulding, as Mike tried with Hope only a few years prior).

A loaded question. From what I recall, it was actually P&G that wanted them removed as the core family initially in the early 1980's, and at first I believe they tried to put the pressure on Doug Marland. Doug, of course, did not let that happen. Fast forward to 1983. At first it would seem like Pam Long and Gail Kobe had it in for the Bauer family. In some ways, that might be true. They killed off Bill Bauer, if for no other reason than to prop up the Eli Simms Bauer/Chamberlain/Reardon/Spaulding/Annabelle Simms storyline. They wrote out Hope Bauer in late 1983, when Elvera Roussel did not want to play Hope as an alcoholic (which is a shame, because I thought that was a great storyline to play, especially with the history of alcoholism in the Bauer family). However, when you look back at 1984, Pam and Gail insisted on writing Bert's leg amputation in for Charita to play (even though I believe Charita initially resisted it). Ed and Maureen were on quite a bit regarding Maureen becoming the hospital administrator, Rick was there as part of "the Four Musketeers", Hillary was involved with the "Dreaming Death" storyline, and Mike was around, though he didn't have a great deal to do on the frontburner (with Hope no longer in Springfield and Alan having been killed), but that changed during the summer as Pam Long positioned Mike into a Mike/Lillian/Alexandra love triangle (with Warren Andrews on the periphery) that was likely to have an affect on the Beth/Lujack romance. Then, a string of bad occurrences happened: Peter Simon decided to leave and Ed was recast with Richard Van Vleet (who did NOT fit the role of Ed, even though Van Vleet played Chuck - also a doctor - on AMC), Hillary was killed off in order to prop up the Susan Piper storyline (UGH), and Don Stewart (Mike) was fired by Gail Kobe for being unwilling to work with Beverlee McKinsey (among other things). They never bothered to recast Hope and Mike (which they really should have, especially when they brought back Alan Spaulding in 1986), so it was just Ed, Maureen, and Rick left of the Bauer clan. That never really changed until they SORAS'd Michelle, and Mike returned briefly in 1997 for the 60th Anniversary. Agreed 100%. Trudy was truly the forgotten Bauer. Once she moved back to New York, she was never mentioned much again. She never returned for Papa Bauer's funeral, which I found a bit strange, so I guess the writers completely forgot about her by that time. But you are right, her time in New York could have made her much more brash then she originally was (yet, as you say, done in a pleasant way). Or, she could have come back for Bert's funeral at the same time as Meta. So you would have had two matriarchs: a warm, sensitive one in Meta, and an assertive, overbearing one in Trudy. Like you said, Trudy could have brought along her own clan (a son or daughter to start with, etc.). Plus, I would have purposely made Trudy single (Clyde having passed away some years prior) to potentially pair her up with with either HB or Henry. They could have even brought a reason as to why "Aunt Trudy" wasn't seen or heard from much - perhaps she and Clyde purposely isolated themselves away in NYC, even being ashamed of their midwest roots? If you are talking about the TV version of TGL, then it would be Papa Bauer, Bill Bauer, Bert Bauer, Trudy Bauer, Meta Bauer Roberts, Joe Roberts, Kathy Roberts Grant, Dick Grant, and probably a few other people I'm forgetting (Joe's son, Joey, Dick Grant's parents, etc.). If you are talking about the radio version, that cast differed greatly until 1948, when the Bauers were introduced. The original central characters/family in the first 10 years of the show were the Ruthledges and the Holdens.

Agreed. There was no need to create a new side of the Bauer family, when they had Bauers out there that they could bring back at any time to fill the void. Since we're discussing Meta, does anyone know if Ellen Demming (Meta #2 on TV), was still acting during the 1980's? If so, they could have easily brought her back when they decided to finally address Bert's death. She was a very capable actress if given good material to work with (the episodes I've seen of her from the 1950's best illustrate this - she was more of a supporting player in the 1960's and 1970's). And @vetsoapfan: I still remember when Richard Van Vleet was cast as Ed in 1984 versus bringing back Mart Hulswit. Van Vleet was so miscast as Ed that it made me long for Peter Simon to return ASAP.

Agreed on Rita. Bert was certainly no saint during the 1950's and early 1960's, but mellowed out under Agnes Nixon into the matriarch we knew and loved. Rita certainly could have went through a similar character evolution. Again, the Bauer brothers worked when they both had each other's back and when they were both in conflict it was still good story. Mike and Rita together would have put them right back in the thick of things again. I've said this before, but I feel like the reason TPTB didn't recast Mike Bauer after they fired Don Stewart was because they *just* recast Ed Bauer, and they probably felt like another recast of a core character so soon after recasting Ed would have been too much for the audience to take. However, there was no reason why they couldn't have brought back Mike after a few months - say at Christmas - with a new actor, and Jed Allen would have been perfect as Mike. Then, Pam Long could have restarted the Mike/Lillian/Alexandria love triangle as she was originally intending. Was the character of Gus originally supposed to be this person, but that eventually changed? I've heard rumors to that effect, but have never been certain.

I don't remember any chemistry between Mike and Renee, either, despite what Stewart claims. There certainly wasn't any between Mike and Ivy. Oddly enough, I always wondered about pairing Mike with *Holly* post-Roger. Basically, some sort of storyline where Holly works with Mike and the Springfield PD as a plant while working for Alan Spaulding (with the premise that Alan offers Holly a job after catching wind that Holly and Roger talked about "leverage" Roger had when she was with Roger in the jungle - Alan being suspicious about how *much* Holly knows about that "leverage", so he makes Holly an offer to work for Spaulding so he can keep tabs on her to determine what she knows...). This would have led to Mike and Holly becoming closer, bringing out jealousy in Ed (whose marriage to Rita was already still on shaky ground). I also thought Rita a Mike would have possibly worked. @vetsoapfan - what do you think, as you probably have even clearer memories of this time than I do. Exactly. This would have helped solidify Mike and Leslie as the tentpole couple. Imagine in the 1980's after both being SORAS'd, that Mike and Leslie's son had conflict with Rick (Freddie) over the fact that once their son was born, Rick felt ignored as he felt Mike and Leslie's son was the favorite.

It would have made sense to have Mike and Leslie be the tentpole couple as the show moved forward. I think had Barbara Rodell been allowed to stay on, that might have happened. From what I understand, the role was always open to Lynne Adams should she wish to return, which is what she did in 1973. However, from what I understand on this thread (I was way to young to remember), Rodell and Don Stewart had the better chemistry. The other point was that Mike and Leslie had yet to have a child of their own. Had that happened, it might have further cemented them as that couple. Mike was always the more stable of the Bauer brothers, and Leslie had the Bert-like wisdom in place. But, Adams returned, then left three years later, as she apparently didn't think the writers could do much more with her character. Mike was then free for more stories, the most famous being in the Justin/Jackie/Alan/Elizabeth storyline for the remainder of the 1970's. The problem was that Mike (and the show, in general) never found anyone to replace Leslie in Mike's life. In my opinion, Elizabeth was too unstable and Trish Lewis was probably too young. I was fine when they paired Mike with Jackie (Cindy Pickett, NOT Carrie Mowrey!), Jennifer, and especially Alexandra. From what I've gathered, the person who vetoed these pairings was Stewart, himself, and eventually this led to his firing by Gail Kobe. I, too, was all for Ed (when played by Mart Hulswit) and Holly circa post-Roger. As vetsoapfan states above, Peter Simon's Ed and Garrett had zero chemistry, so even when the show paired Ed and Holly up again in 1989, it didn't work like it should. Agreed. Or, they could have at least brought Billy and Peggy back once Roger returned from the dead. At that point, they could have given Hart's storyline to Billy.

I completely agree. It was amazing how much the show kept getting worse and worse in 1984. By the time 1985 came around, I completely stopped watching. I returned in 1988 once Maureen Garrett came back as Holly and was hooked once it was confirmed that Roger would be brought back from the dead. By 1995, I couldn't watch it anymore. I'm glad you brought this up. I had brief hope for the show at the beginning in 1997 for the reasons you stated above, especially when they started the year out by having a celebration for the 60th Anniversary (and finally brought back Mike Bauer!!!). Not a problem! You've helped clarify a ton of items for me concerning TGL over the course of this thread, it was the least I could do .

That's the second actress to play Meta on television, Ellen Demming. The first TV actress to play Meta on TV was Joan Allison. There were a couple of other actresses who played the part on the radio. The character pictured with Meta in the ad is Mark Holden (Whitfield Connor), who Meta began seeing after her second husband, Joe Roberts, died on Christmas Eve in 1955 from cancer. There would eventually be a love triangle between Meta, Mark, and Kathy Roberts (Meta's step-daughter). So I would place that ad from either 1956 or 1957 at the latest.

Wow, what a great find - thanks for posting that! It's great that it at least has a glimpse of Lynn Deerfield as Holly.

You are right - it could very well have been Kirsten Vigard (Morgan #1). I can't recall Lisa Brown getting bad press during this time period, so the odds are probably on Kirsten.

Now I REALLY wonder who she is referring to...?!!?