zanereed

That makes complete sense. I always got the sense that Marland had to sacrifice those vets in order to keep the Bauer family intact - I've heard that TPTB at P&G wanted the Bauer family phased out as early as when Marland initially took over in 1980, but he was able to keep that from happening during his time there.

I know that Marland definitely did not care for Hulswit, as Marland was the one who convinced Allen Potter to let Hulswit go (which Potter later stated that he shouldn't have done), but I was always surprised by Marland letting go of Milli, Berjer, and Schnabel. Marland always tended to use the vets well, even if they weren't in major storylines (as he did on ATWT). I suppose there must have been cost cuts involved, and since Roger and Holly were no longer in Springfield, Berjer and Milli weren't needed. Marland must not have felt comfortable finally "officially" putting Bert Bauer together with Steven Jackson, so Schnabel wasn't needed, either.

Yes, both Papa and Bert referred to Mike as "Michael". Once upon a time, the P & G soaps loosely crossed over to one another. As you mentioned, Dru Mitchell was in Oakdale at one point, and Mike Bauer took Hope to Bay City from Springfield (or maybe TGL was still Selby Flats versus Springfield...?), shortly after Hope's mother, Julie Conrad, killed herself in a mental institution early in 1966.

I second @Keri's recommendation - go to YT and start here: The 1979 episodes are sporadic, but you can get a good sense the storylines that played out throughout the year.

Here's one such instance where Sara played the piano (Christmas Eve, 1982):

That's a great question, as I really can't recall. The first appearances of Ross from March of 1979 are on YT, of course, but I don't think any of them include an initial encounter with Mike. My instinct says that they didn't know each other *well* when Ross first came to Springfield (as opposed to when Alan Spaulding first appeared, for example, and the show established right away that Mike and Alan knew each other already). For some reason, I think Mike knew Ross by reputation only, but 43 years on the memory will cheat, of course. I agree with you, though - I remember that Mike and Ross were certainly not best friends during 1979 and 1980!

She would have made a great Hope Bauer, but I always wished they brought Courtney on as Elizabeth Spaulding, Alan's first wife, but with a bit more strength and resolve versus how Lezlie Dalton originally played the role. Then I could really imagine George Reinholt as Alan Spaulding opposite Courtney as Elizabeth!

This is where I figured Pam Long was originally going with the love triangle. If Mike and Alex had eventually become engaged, that alone would have provided years of story. Mike would be marrying the sister of his long-time nemesis (who was still presumed dead, of course). Even if they didn't end up married, the lead-up would be fascinating. Would Beth be supportive of this marriage because of the effect it would have on her mother, causing friction in her relationship with Lujack? Would it serve as an impetus for Hope Bauer to finally return to Springfield for the wedding? Hope's father would be marrying her former sister-in-law. Alan-Michael's aunt could potentially also be his grandmother-by-marriage. I don't know if Long would have gone there, though. I also don't know if Christopher Bernau ever intended on returning to the show before he did in 1986, but as I stated above, it would be entertaining (if not a cliché) for Alan to return from the dead during the actual wedding ceremony.

I think you are right. Had Mike stayed on, there wasn't much for Ross Marler to do at that point except to interact with Philip. I really wish I could see what Pam Long's original story projections were for the Alexandra/Mike/Lillian triangle were. I do know, for example, that it likely was to have been Mike who was supposed to defend Lujack when Lujack was accused of killing Andy Ferris in early 1985. I don't know if *any* of these are true facts or rumors, but what I've gleamed over the years is that the love triangle was supposed to cause conflict between Lujack/Beth. I guess I could see some of that starting in the spring and summer of 1984, but I'm not sure that ever came to true fruition. Mike would have been paired with Lillian through late summer/fall of 1984, but supposedly would have went with Alexandra to Barbados during the Susan Piper/Brandon Spaulding storyline in late 1984 when that storyline reached its conclusion, much to Lillian's chagrin. I don't know who Mike would have been with by Christmas. I assume still with Lillian...? I also don't know if the Ferris murder was planned that far in advance, but I think either that or some other event would have finally put Mike and Alexandra together for a possible engagement. I don't know if a wedding would have eventually happened, but my own fanfic would have been for the old soap cliché of having their wedding being interrupted by a back-from-the-dead Alan Spaulding. Stewart apparently had issues with Mike being paired with age-appropriate Jennifer Richards in 1980, which was Marland's original idea. I don't know if Stewart and Geraldine Court didn't get along...? I agree that Stewart did have chemistry with Deborah May when May was on the show as Renee Dubois, but when May returned as Ivy Pierce a couple of years later (again, I don't know if that was because Marland was trying to placate Stewart or bringing May back as a new character was Marland's own idea), I don't recall them having as much chemistry (which is probably why May was written out).

Regarding Stewart's departure (and this is pure conjecture on my part based on what I've read in articles and have gleamed from this very thread) - Stewart was definitely fired by Kobe, and by that time it was because (as stated previously) he wasn't willing to be featured in the Alexandra/Mike/Lillian love triangle, even though Pam Long was very willing to write for Stewart. Some have stated that was because Stewart and Beverlee McKinsey did not get along well, but I have never been certain on that. Regardless, Kobe apparently had enough and fired him. As others have stated previously in this thread, Stewart wasn't well liked among some of the cast, and apparently had been riding on the extreme popularity he had during the 1970's (at one point he was the most popular actor on TGL) - for instance, he didn't tend to learn his lines very well. And yes, he apparently never liked the women he was paired up with, which supposedly caused constant headaches behind the scenes. Like @Chris 2says above, I always believed if Stewart would have played ball with Long/Kobe in 1984 and had done the proposed love triangle, and therefore survived the rest of 1984 and 1985, I think he would have continued on the show for much, much longer. Doug Marland never liked Mart Hulswit, because Hulswit was critical of the writing at that time. I think @vetsoapfan can quote the exact phrase that Marland used for Hulswit...? I guess it was Marland who convinced Allan Potter finally to fire and replace Hulswit, even though Potter was apparently hesitant to do so. @Khananswered it.

Actually, that's true, but I guess I never saw the character of Hillary as "vixen-esque" (to be honest, I never saw Clarke as a good Tina recast, either). I liked the Bauer brothers actually having a sister, though, and I thought Clarke had a good rapport with Charita Bauer (even though she wasn't Bert's actual daughter). I don't remember much of Linda McCullough in the role of Hillary, but maybe a Hillary recast would have worked moving forward.

I didn't necessarily have issues with 1983. Phillip finally found out that Justin Marler was his biological father after being on TGL for 7 years (real time), and I felt the reveal was written well. However, there was never a true impact of that reveal because Justin was written out of the show shortly thereafter. Meaning, there were no real ramifications for Justin/Phillip/Alan, and that story in itself could have lasted for years. I also didn't mind the Eli/Annabelle Sims story, but it wasn't a great send-off for Bill Bauer, a true legacy character since the TV show debuted in 1952. I didn't question the retcon of Bill Bauer knowing Henry and Brandon, as Bill was in Public Relations, so he could have well been a rep for both men and their respective businesses in the past. However, Bill's death seemed pointless after the storyline concluded. I wondered with Bill finally dead, that some romantic storyline would be given to Bert. I know Pam Long intended for HB and Bert to be romantically involved the following year, which had to be scrapped due to Charita's health and eventual passing. My real issue was a year later, when Springfield's legacy cast had essentially been gutted by Kobe. By the end of September of 1984, Ed Bauer, Katie Parker, and Ross Marler were the only legacy characters left on the canvas, and the person playing Ed by that point was the second recast in three years. Granted, not all was the fault of Long and Kobe. Don Stewart was fired for not wanting to play out the proposed Alexandra/Mike/Lillian love triangle, and Peter Simon wanted out after three years. I still think killing off Hillary for storyline purposes was not a great choice, however. I suppose Kobe and Long believed that as long as they had Charita around as their anchor (and Kobe definitely wanted to keep writing for Charita, from what I've read), that any changes they made would be eventually be smoothed over...? Regardless, I never watched TGL intently after 1984. I came back occasionally after Chris Bernau returned as Alan in 1986, but was never invested again until Maureen Garrett and Michael Zaslow returned in 1989, and that eventually wore off after 1993 (after the death of Maureen).

To think, that was just in 1983. One year later, and the canvas would look even more different...and not for the better, IMHO.

Absolutely. Thinking back to 1998, even if Berjer had retired from acting, it would have been interesting to have Barbara die off camera, and suddenly Holly learns that Barbara wants to be buried in Springfield. This results in having Ken, Emily, and Andy all return to Springfield for her funeral. Holly and Blake immediately find themselves surrounded by family - Holly having to look after two brothers for different reasons, Emily figuring out how to engage with her perhaps-estranged family (maybe Janet purposely kept Emily away from them), and Blake dealing with relatives she barely knows. It would have been fun to see if Blake would identify with "Uncle Andy" based on her past behavior (again, depending on who that would have cast as Andy).

You have me, there. OUCH. Absolutely. To their credit, the show did bring back Barbara Berjer in 1995 as Barbara Norris, but I don't think Barbara was utilized enough at that time. There was so much history between Barbara and Roger, for example. Roger always hated Barbara for her constant interference in Holly's life. In fact, they should have brought in Roger's father, Adam Thorpe (Robert Milli), on a contract basis to further complicate things - Adam and Barbara had been married in the 1970's. As it was, Barbara left again in 1996. Then, TPTB brought Roger Newman as Ken Norris in 1998, but again - I don't think they had a good plan on what to do with him. Imagine if both Ken *and* Andy suddenly arrived on Holly's doorstep - Ken being released from the mental institution and looking to reconnect with his family, and Andy also being released from prison around the same time - Ken having learned his lessons, but Andy not having learned a thing and concocting his next big scheme, which probably would have had something to do with Spaulding Enterprises.

So true, but I can't help but believe that TPTB would have hired Mattson, looked at Deas, and go, "Oh, yeah, we'll just pair Hope and Buzz together - that'll set ratings on fire 🤪!" Agreed 100%, although I think Pilon still went down the "Max DuBujak" route versus trying to give some depth to Alan, as Bernau had.

Absolutely, 100% correct. That character could have easily been a one-note villain archetype, but Bernau brought such depth to the character that even if his motivations were less-than-admirable, Bernau's Alan always believed he was doing the best for Alan Pilon and Raines didn't bring that to the character at all. Alan became the one-note archetype. I remember either P & G or the soap press was lauding the hiring of Raines, as they said he would remind the audience of Bernau. Uh, no. As for Hope, they could have brought her back at any time during the 1990's and 2000's. Unfortunately, if they had brought on Mattson, I'm sure they would have wanted to pair Hope with Buzz (for that Mattson/Deas Gina/Keith reunion). I still think a good Alan recast in 1993 would have been George Reinholt, and I can't even take credit for that idea...someone mentioned it to me back in 2020. I never thought of it before, but I think Reinholt could have made Alan a complex character in the vein of Bernau. Roscoe Born would have been perfect, as well, but I really like the idea of Born as Andy Norris, Andy being fresh out of his prison stint and looking for help from Holly.

I would have taken any of the above. I have a soft spot for Roussel, but if she declined, Mattson or McCabe would have more than been capable. Now that you mentioned Mattson, @NothinButAttitude, it would have been fascinating to see if Mattson and Raines had any chemistry...

An excellent question. People were asking that while the show was still on the air. I think in the late 1980's and early 1990's, they didn't do that because they had SORAS'd Alan-Michael so quickly (and probably too quickly looking back at it). Part of the Alan/Hope love story was that Alan fell in love with the daughter of his arch nemesis (Michael Bauer), who was supposed to be around 20 years or so *younger* than Alan. With Alan-Michael having aged 15 "soap years" in the course of 4 "real years", that logic wouldn't be possible any longer. Of course, it isn't as if TGL was ever adherent to their own history. I personally think in the mid 1990's, once Alan had been established again in Springfield, it would have been easy to bring back Hope. In fact, they could have done that during the 60th Anniversary Celebration, with both Mike and Hope returning to Springfield to honor Bert/Cedars, and Hope deciding to stay in Springfield.

You could always tell Hulswit and Stewart were close from their shared scenes, some of which are available to see on YT - they acted like the brothers they were playing! For me, Mike was always the piece that was missing for Ed during the late 1980's and 1990's (when Ed was on the canvas), as Ed had no sounding board like he had with Mike. I suppose they made Ross essentially Mike for those years. I always thought that if they continued to do that, the show should have organically bonded both Ed and Ross as having brothers (Mike and Justin, respectively) that they both were once close with who were now off doing their own things. Well, I'm not sure Ross and Justin were ever super-close, I guess.

I've always wondered by Stewart and Fee were unpopular with their castmates. I think from this very thread I've gleamed that Stewart came not knowing his lines very well, and from Fee it was basically personality. @Nicholas Blair, does that seem right?

I always found it more interesting when Mike was paired with a Charlotte Waring versus an Elizabeth Spaulding. I'm certainly not comparing Alex or Van to Charlotte (!), but when Mr. Law and Order could be paired with someone who was more "creative" with Law and Order, it made it more intriguing. Again, I don't know if Don Stewart and Maeve Kinkead would have had much chemistry, but I don't know if TPTB ever considered it, either. The more juicy and complex idea would be to have Mike eventually marry Alex, the sister of his former nemesis/son-in-law. With all of that existing history between the Bauers and the Spauldings, that could have been the gift that kept on giving for years to come. Speaking of Charlotte, had Mike stayed on the canvas and married Alex, I would have eventually had an illegitimate son come to Springfield that would have been the son Mike of and Charlotte (rewriting history a bit when Charlotte had suffered a miscarriage all those years ago).

Great point. I really wish I knew what Long's endgame was with the Alex/Lillian/Mike triangle before Kobe fired Stewart. All I've ever been able to gleam with the few crumbs I've come across was that the triangle was going to run parallel and converge with Lujack/Beth. My theory was that Mike would eventually end up at least *engaged* to Alex by 1985. With that set up, it would only make sense for TPTB to eventually lure back Chris Bernau as Alan (as they did anyway in 1986) to create havoc in that potential pair-up.

@vetsoapfan, now you have me thinking of a Mike/Alex/Van triangle. That could have been more wicked and fun than the original Mike/Alex/Lillian triangle that Long was writing 😄!

I 100% agree. Actually, I wish that Jamie had eventually found that he, like his father, had a natural affinity for business versus going to medical school. So maybe he starts out in the arts, for instance, but soon realizes he's better at "doing deals" than creating art? Or, he could have started in medical school and left for the same reason. This motivates him to get active in Frame Enterprises, deciding that he is going to both embrace and enhance Steve Frame's legacy. Rachel, of course, is less-than-pleased, as (in her eyes) Jamie seems to be transforming bit by bit into a version of his father. Happy and outdoing Jamie starts becoming introverted and brooding, and this would include the jealousy and addiction issues as you listed above. Yep, Sam Groom was always my preferred Russ Matthews, even though I remember David Bailey better because more of his era still exists to view. And Sam Groom could have good chemistry with anyone. So, my fanfic above could have worked very well. Imagine if the audience really got behind a (re)pairing of Rachel and Russ *organically*. Meaning (heaven forbid!) that the writers respect that the love of Rachel's life was gone, and that they were just having a slow build to a *possible* romance. Again, Rachel and Russ had extensive history, so just playing with that part of it and having them interact as old *friends* would have been fun to watch play out. Groom would have likely shined in a storyline like this. Plus, it would also be interesting to see how much chemistry Groom would have had with Anna Kathryn Holbrook - that might have led to some great stuff, as well... I would have brought Pat back when Iris returned and was making a play for Cory Publishing. Rachel doesn't trust Iris, of course, and asks Pat to come back to Bay City to help deal with Iris (assuming Pat was still associated to Cory Publishing, as she was when they wrote Pat out in 1982). However, Rachel and Pat butt heads (once again), and Pat starts having more in common with Iris than Rachel... For Alice, I would have brought Alice back as Administrator of Bay City Hospital. This would put her in the orbit of both Russ and Jamie. This would give her ample opportunity to interact with Russ about his ongoing, non-romantic relationship with Rachel 😁.