zanereed

Anything was better than what we eventually got in "The Peapack Years". Basically, most of your post highlights that time-honored tradition in soaps, SORAS. It was always one of Irna's favorite tools to use on her soaps. It made a complete WTF mess on ATWT in 1966 when Dan Stewart (and Paul Stewart, too) were suddenly jolted from kids to grown men, and Dan being a doctor! Even Bob Hughes jumped a few years back in 1960 when Don Hastings assumed the role. The list goes on and on...Russ Matthews on AW going from a troubled child to another grown man with a career as a doctor within months! Even Harding Lemay in his book admitted that he purposely aged Jamie Frame and Michael and Marianne Randolph in order to add some conflict into the storylines of their respective parents. I never understood why this concept stayed so popular of a soap opera "tool" for so long. In the case of the Bauers, they probably could have survived if Don Stewart had been willing to play ball and play out the love triangle that Pam Long wanted to write for Mike Bauer. Also, Charita Bauer's death really did shock Long and Gail Kobe, as none of them realized how sick she really was. Killing Hillary Bauer was absolutely pointless, though.

How long did Marland plan to have that therapy continue for, a year? I assume therapy would have meant the revealing of even more personalities?

Guiding Light definitely hit #1 in the ratings for about three weeks in July 1984. I remember it well because Entertainment Tonight aired a story about GL's ratings surge. Thanks for the confirmation! I originally thought it had as well, but there was a discussion previously in this thread that said it didn't happen, as it was actually Y&R that was #1 after GH was dethroned from the top spot.

Does anyone know how long Rick Ryan (Con Roche) was around in the 1970's? My best guess would be from 1972 to 1975?

I thought I recall GL briefly going back in up ratings in either 1983 or 1984 (1984 was the year in which GL was supposedly the top rated soap for a brief period, but I think that was nixed previously in this thread)?

Marland's writing for GL started airing in January of 1980, I believe. Marland left in protest in 1982 after GL EP Allen Potter fired Jane Elliott (who played Carrie Marler).

At times when I watched ATWT when the Dobsons were writing it, I had a hard time believing these were the same people who wrote what I consider perhaps the best years of GL.

Yes, it appears Meta was more of a supporting character once she married Bruce Banning, as if the writers didn't know what to do with her after that. Even when she and Bruce were brought back in 1971, it didn't seem like they did much with her (and Bruce). All My Shadows, I think you bring up a valid point about Meta's family being diminished in favor of Bill's I wonder if that was a sign of the times, favoring the male versus the females of the core family? Although I suppose Bill and Bert were more of an interesting family dynamic versus Meta and Joe. Bill was the weak, indecisive one with Bert badgering him on and Papa Bauer being the voice of reason between those two.

Thank you for sharing that. I wonder if Irna really needed to kill off Kathy, or if she didn't want Susan Douglas off screen for any long period of time to have her second child? Irna was seriously SORAS-ing Robin at that point, so maybe it didn't make sense to keep Kathy on. Or, maybe it came down to either killing off Meta or Kathy, and Susan's pregnancy was the deciding factor. I wish they hadn't killed most of Meta's family, either. I don't think any writer knew what to do with Meta, unfortunately. If it were me, I would have brought back Joey Roberts, all grown up and perhaps a problematic adult. That could have given Meta some needed storyline. Or, perhaps Ted White had a sister, unknown up to that point, who comes to Springfield to get revenge on Meta for murdering her brother. Nothing drives this fact home more than Papa Bauer's death/funeral, where Meta is seen comforting Bert. Agreed. That, and at the service Meta isn't sitting in the front row, she's sitting behind Bert, Ed, and Mike. I haven't watched that episode in awhile, but did they even address Trudy at all?

I thought it was up on YT, but I guess not? I was watching it on a DVD-R that I got in a trade with some other 1950's GL episodes. You are probably right about freeing Meta up for other stories. The odd thing was, Kathy and Meta were already in a triangle of sorts when Kathy was first introduced - Kathy never wanted Meta married to Joe, so she was an obstacle for their romance. I guess TPTB did take it to the next level after Joe's death, as Meta and Kathy would both be in a love triangle with Mark Holden.

On a completely different subject of GL, a couple of days ago I was watching an episode supposedly from December 25, 1955 - the day after Joe Roberts died of cancer. Does anyone know why they killed the character of Joe off? Did Herb Nelson decline to return? I know Irna had a knack for killing off characters when the actors decided not to continue on the show (Reverend Ruthledge, etc.), but it just seemed out of the blue for Joe to discover he had cancer and die not too long afterwards. I've always wondered why she also decided to kill off Joe's daughter, Kathy (Roberts) Holden, just three years later.

I'm not sure if she kept in touch with Douglas regularly, but wasn't it a wish of hers for Grant to come back to Oakdale at the end of the show and take Lisa with him? Essentially to give Lisa a happy ending?

Thank you, Paul. I'm also sorry to learn that James Douglas passed away. I have very fond memories of Grant Coleman when I watched ATWT as a kid.

Does anyone remember how long Millette Alexander played "Sylvia Suker" on the show? I thought she played on ATWT from 1964 to 1966, which would not fit if this photo is actually from 1962. (I just checked in two reference books, which also list Alexander's tenure on the show from 1964066.) Thanks for the confirmation - that's what I was thinking, as well. Would you also be able to tell me who the woman is between Rosemary Prinz and Millette Alexander? I'm drawing a complete blank.

I agree with both Mitch (as always!) and vetsoapfan. Hulswit's Ed could have been the Bauer family patriarch had he stayed. He did exude the warmth of Bert, but still had the conflicts that his father Bill had. I also feel he would have melded into the grandfather mold (via the 2000's, had he stayed that long) very well. Stewart's Mike, however, would have been the better candidate. The problem was always that Stewart wouldn't let anyone be paired with Mike long term. It still amazes me that Stewart wouldn't accept the love triangle with Mike/Liliian/Alexandra - that triangle would have provided storyline for Stewart for at least two or more years. Jed Allan would have been a great recast of Mike Bauer. Like vetsoapfan, I wish TPTB would have brought Mike back at any point during the 1990's, and let Stewart have first right of refusal for the role (hopefully Stewart had mellowed a bit by that point). If Stewart was unwilling to come back as Mike, Jed could have played the role perfectly. Hope should have returned numerous times over the years, especially to provide some good conflict for Alan and Alan-Michael. A wasted opportunity, in my opinion. Elvera Roussel would have been my first choice for Hope. I agree with this completely. Basically, I did not equate "younger and sexier" with Peter Simon (who is actually only 3 years younger than Hulswit). I still find it odd that Marland had such derogatory comments to say about Hulswit. Did he ever do this with any other actor? I think Hulswit's being slightly pudgy had a lot to do with it. TPTB believe that the audience only wants to see thin romantic leads. (Well, it's getting a bit better nowadays, but in the past, it was rare to find any overweight characters of that sort.) I was quite offended by Marland's referring to Hulswit as a "dodo," a mean-spirited bit of sniping that was so unnecessary (and so unlike the writer, who never seemed to have a bad word to say about anyone, even Allen Potter or Gloria Monty, both of whom he had had trouble working with.) Seriously, I would take Hulswit's Ed over Simon's any day. (Although I would take Simon's Ed over Richard van Fleet's version.) I never understood Marland's comment on Hulswit, either. Hulswit must have really upset Marland in some way for Marland to comment like that. As you said, Marland never said a bad word about Allen Potter, and they really never got along well at all from what I recall. I do know that Hulswit was criticizing the writing. Maybe that had something to do with it. I read that in a book or article that was talking about production of soap operas. There was a discussion of why GL made Alan Spaulding less villain-ish after a couple of years. In the same piece, they discussed how the executive producer let go of Hulswit because the actor was constantly criticizing the writing. I wish I could find that book or article again.

They were very interested in doing so in 1988 or 1989, but Lenore declined to return. I always thought she should be been brought back during the whole Gus parentage saga. Gus could have been Rita son by either Alan or Ed. That could have ben a good story to play out.

Does anyone remember how long Millette Alexander played "Sylvia Suker" on the show?

In an interview many years ago, Douglas Marland spoke about how TPTB wanted to go younger and sexier with the character of Ed, and how Mart Hulswit was supposedly a "dodo," who was not attractive or fit enough to play a younger, sexier Ed. It was absurd, of course. Regardless of TPTB's opinion of what will or will not appeal to the audience, we do not all demand to see washboard abs and shampoo-model hair on every soap opera character. We have loved matriarchs and patriarchs like Bert Bauer, Lila Quartermaine, Joe Martin, Stu Bergman, Grandpa Hughes, Katherine Chancellor, and so many others, regardless of their physical attributes. Mart Hulswit was warm and comforting, and certainly attractive even though his waist was expanding and his hair was thinning. He was Ed Bauer. Peter Simon is a good actor, but much more aloof and reserved than Hulswit, and is he (or was he, at the time) significantly more attractive than Hulswit? I would say no. The early 1980s saw the unavoidable loss of Bert Bauer, the completely avoidable loss of Mike, Hope, Hillary, and even Bill Bauer, and the pointless recasting of Ed Bauer. It was a series of death blows to the core family and to the show, and TGL never actually recovered. Was Mart fired from GL in 1981 or did he leave on his own ? In an interview many years ago, Douglas Marland spoke about how TPTB wanted to go younger and sexier with the character of Ed, and how Mart Hulswit was supposedly a "dodo," who was not attractive or fit enough to play a younger, sexier Ed. It was absurd, of course. Regardless of TPTB's opinion of what will or will not appeal to the audience, we do not all demand to see washboard abs and shampoo-model hair on every soap opera character. We have loved matriarchs and patriarchs like Bert Bauer, Lila Quartermaine, Joe Martin, Stu Bergman, Grandpa Hughes, Katherine Chancellor, and so many others, regardless of their physical attributes. Mart Hulswit was warm and comforting, and certainly attractive even though his waist was expanding and his hair was thinning. He was Ed Bauer. Peter Simon is a good actor, but much more aloof and reserved than Hulswit, and is he (or was he, at the time) significantly more attractive than Hulswit? I would say no. The early 1980s saw the unavoidable loss of Bert Bauer, the completely avoidable loss of Mike, Hope, Hillary, and even Bill Bauer, and the pointless recasting of Ed Bauer. It was a series of death blows to the core family and to the show, and TGL never actually recovered. I agree with this completely. Basically, I did not equate "younger and sexier" with Peter Simon (who is actually only 3 years younger than Hulswit). I still find it odd that Marland had such derogatory comments to say about Hulswit. Did he ever do this with any other actor?

Carl, Thank you very much for the link to the 1972 ATWT episode. It is always great to see another episode from this era. I love seeing John Colenback and Patricia Bruder in scenes together - they never did look like "mother and son" at all. I can really notice the fact that they are the same age (well, Colenback was actually OLDER than Bruder). Marie Masters looks AMAZING here.

I was never a fan of the way Amanda was written during her time in Springfield during the 1990's, which is a shame because I did like Toby Poser as an actress. I wasn't a fan of de-aging Amanda (did Kathleen Cullen even get an inquiry if she'd like to return?), and then having Brandon be Amanda's father versus Alan after 16 years made zero sense. It was this storyline, along with MZ getting let go, which finally got me to stop watching in 1997 (although I briefly watched again when they brought back Ken Norris).

An excellent point. Her past affair with Roger would have certainly made for good story.

Thanks for posting that article, Carl. I loved Marsha on GL. I really wish Pam & Gail hadn't decided to kill Hillary off when they did. It seemed unnecessary, and didn't really push any story forward. If anyone still hasn't checked out the "Guiding Plight" on YouTube, do so! Marsha herself posted the whole thing up on YT. It was a spoof on GL that involved the actual cast and crew, written and produced entirely by Marsha. It is hilarious, IMHO.

Correct. Natalie's return in 1981 was horrid. As Mitch states, she had zero interaction with Tom. I remember watching and thinking, "What's the point?" The same was true when the Dobsons brought in Gary Hudson as a recast of Rick Ryan. It was a nice idea, but never really went anywhere - plus, Hudson was also miscast as Rick (in my opinion). Hudson was hot though! But yea he couldn't act and did he even have scenes with Bob or Kim? I remember a stilted scene with Barbara....(who you would think would have been thrilled to find her long lost brother...) and she mentions have you talked to "Bob Hughes," yet (I always think is so weird that charcters tack on last names, as if he wouldnt know which "Bob," she was talking to.) Hudsons acting talent wasnt as big as his chest though. ATWT was just so weird back then, no one was connected so bringing back old characters was useless as the Dobs had three character groups (Ariel, John,Dee, James, Babs, Gunner) and(Steve and Betsy/Craig) and (Tom/Margo) and no one else got written for as those character rarely interacted with their own families. Zarish to give her her due, knew how to trade bitchy remarks and keep up with Fulton so she would have worked as someone other then Natalie. Yep, Hudson did have scenes with Bob. In fact, you can see one of them on one of the Soap Classics DVDs - I believe it was the James Stenbeck collection.

I still wish they would have done a storyline similar to the above for R & H's final story...

Correct. Natalie's return in 1981 was horrid. As Mitch states, she had zero interaction with Tom. I remember watching and thinking, "What's the point?" The same was true when the Dobsons brought in Gary Hudson as a recast of Rick Ryan. It was a nice idea, but never really went anywhere - plus, Hudson was also miscast as Rick (in my opinion).