zanereed

I agree - Jed Allan would definitely have been a good Mike Bauer. I still think if Peter Simon hadn't left the show in 1984, Kobe and Long might have sent Mike off the canvas for a bit and had him come back at Christmas in 1984 played by a new actor. There would have been fan outcry, of course, but I could see Jed Allan winning viewers over quickly. I wish I still had some of PFS's episodes to watch. As you stated, she was very good a character interaction, plus the fact that she brought up Bill Bauer in conversation was a plus. I always wondered if PFS had a germ of an idea to bring Bill Bauer back, which then L Virgina Browne used for the Annabelle/Eli Simms storyline (that killed off Bill Bauer for good).

I'm laughing right now picturing 6'3" Jed Allen as Mike Bauer staring down at 5'11" Peter Simon as Ed Bauer!

I thought Pat Falken Smith did great work in the small time she was there. Now I can't recall, even though it was discussed here previously - was she fired by Potter or someone else at P & G? I don't think she overlapped with Kobe at all, did she? I'm still trying to remember the whole Bill Bauer/Simone Kincaid/Victor Kincaid/Paul Kincaid storyline. I still think that only Hillary was Bill's bio-daughter. From what I remember: 1. Bill and SImone meet in Switerland and had an affair. 2. Bill returns to Springfield and Simone is pregnant with Hillary. 3. Simone moves to Vancouver and meets and marries Victor Kincaid. Kincaid passes off Hillary as his own. 4. I thought that Simone then got pregnant again shortly into their marriage and had Paul. But, here's where it gets confusing... 5. Bill at some point located Simone in Vancouver and they had an affair again...I think this was even before Bill's plane crashed in 1969. It could have been that Paul was conceived during one of their flings, so both of them were Bill's? This is probably the most the whole saga has been discussed about since it ended in 1978!

Thanks. I still recall Victor being the father of Paul during that whole storyline. Simone married Victor Kincaid while being pregnant with Hillary, and Paul was born during their marriage (before Bill arrived in Vancouver).

I was just a kid when that was happening as well, so I was wondering if I might not have remembered the storyline correctly and Bill fathered both of the kids. Great ideas, especially Bert leaving her house to Hope. Just curious - who would you have wanted to play Mike and Hope?

You mean Paul Kincaid? I thought Paul really was the son of Victor and Simone Kincaid (unlike Hillary).

Sorry, Robb. I didn't mean to single out Rick Bauer. I knew O'Leary was back long term at that point. I meant that the show could have brought back other legacy characters for the 50th, even if was for a short term visit. I though both Hope and Mike were slated to return (in one form or another - I suspect recasts for both) in 1986. Oh, gawd...Mary Ryan Munisteri... Hulswit apparently rubbed Marland the wrong way. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, Hulswit seemed to be the only actor that Marland was ever negative towards in an interview from the mid-1980's. I had read somewhere that Potter fired Hulswit because he was so critical of the writing. Marland must not have taken kindly to that. However, he could have been brought back in 1986 when it was a new regime. I agree, when it comes to the patriarchs, looking like an Adonis is not a prerequisite. Well, Don Stewart was an exception I suppose... The one thing I was shocked by during the Nursery Rhyme Storyline was that they brought back Holly's brother, Ken Norris - still being played by Roger Newman! Although I think Newman was a writer on the show at the time, it was still nice to see the show dig back into its history and bring back a legacy character. It's too back they didn't do more with Ken. They could have brought in his daughter that he had with Janet and expanded the Norris family a bit more.

He really did. I don't remember any real consequences for Ed and Lillian. I also thought that Ed would get some heat from Roger. Once again, Ed Bauer took something away from Roger Thorpe (whether directly or indirectly), this time a good friend. I figured Maureen's death would have/could have kick-started an Ed/Roger feud again.

Yes, Hulswit should have been the one to return as Ed in 1986 versus Simon. It would have helped immensely. Also, just think of how much more of an impact the returns of Holly and Roger would have been with Hulswit as Ed. I think that Ed Bauer would have had a lot more story and interaction with Roger if that were the case. I remember seeing a soap mag in 1990 with a photo of Zaslow and Hulswit together, and Hulswit looked exactly the same as in 1981, so he would have been perfectly fine back in the role. I wonder if they did reach out to him in 1986 but he turned it down? I would have loved Stewart back as Mike, but Hulswit would have sufficed just fine. As you said, Stewart apparently was problematic to work with, so there might have been reluctance to ask him back. I read somewhere (probably earlier in this thread?) that Kobe and Long were fine doing a complete overhaul of TGL cast (letting long time vets go in favor of new characters) as long as they had Charita there as the heart of the show. I know that Kobe and Long both encouraged the Bert leg amputation storyline for Charita to do. Apparently they were shocked when she passed away, as they never realized how sick she really was. Regardless, TPTB definitely should have brought in Meta (preferably with Demming in the role). Meta could have decided to come back and stay in Springfield after Bert's passing, even if just a recurring presence for the rest of the Bauer family.

Ah, yes - correct. While it was great to have Rick back, that was just *one* legacy Bauer who came back, even if it was only a short-term visit. I don't recall a mention during the 50th of Mike Bauer, no mention of Meta or any other legacy Bauers, and having a SORAsed Alan-Michael arrive essentially squashed any chance of Hope Bauer ever returning. While I did like Alan-Michael, I still think he was SORAsed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too quickly. If anything, I would have loved to have seen Hope Bauer be the one who parachuted into Springfield - a changed Hope (probably recast if Elvera wouldn't do it) who - since leaving Springfield 4 years ago - has become a stronger person than the one who was duped by Alan on so many occasions. The old Hope would have never taken a risk of parachuting, but this Hope would. It would be symbolic of an independent Hope would has taken control of her life. She would be more of a risk-taker both personally and professionally. Alan, of course, would be horrified at this change in Hope, and would immediately try to get custody of a non-SORAsed Alan-Michael.

Now that would have been good drama to play out. Unfortunately, I doubt JFP had any thoughts regarding that when she decided to kill off Maureen. It also would have given Peter Simon some good material to work with moving forward, even if you could only have a couple of Reardons on at the time (Bea and Nola would be been great, but was Lisa Brown even available in 1993?).

From what I saw of TGL in 1985 (and I didn't see much), it seemed like an odd YEAR. Exactly. It seemed no one but Long could write effectively for that character. Yes, Reva had popular stories post-Long (the whole Annie saga, of course), but no one seemed to serve that character justice throughout most of her tenure. Kudos to Zimmer for working with that material.

Is Kobe why Peter Simon left the show in 1984? I wasn't sure if she had something to do with it. As far as the poor Bauer family goes: 1. Bill Bauer (Ed Bryce) - killed off in 1983 for the purposes of the Eli/Annie Simms storyline. 2. Hope Bauer (Elvera Roussel) - fired/let go in late 1983 due to Elvera not wanting Hope to be an alcoholic. I admit, I did like Hope during her last few months. Pam Long wrote a much more fiery Hope than in years past. I'm not sure why Elvera didn't agree with this. I could certainly see Hope depending on alcohol due the pressures of being a Spaulding. 3. Mike Bauer (Don Stewart) - fired by Kobe in 1984 for apparently not wanting to have Mike involved in a love triangle with Alexandra and Lillian. Supposedly Stewart and Beverlee McKinsey did not get along, which might have impacted Stewart's unwillingness (not sure if this is accurate, though). Mike's love triangle with Alexandra and Lillian would have likely brought on further complications for Lujack and Beth. 4. Ed Bauer (Peter Simon) - Simon left the role after 3 years in 1984 and the character was recast with Richard van Vleet. 5. Hillary Bauer (Marsha Clark) - killed off in 1984 for the purposes of the Susan Piper/Brandon Spaulding storyline.

I think the funeral might have been one of the only times that van Vleet's Ed and Charita were on screen together. Speaking of which, Hillary's funeral was another atrocity. There was no need to kill her off, but when they did - no Mike at the funeral (which would make sense. I suppose, since they recently fired Stewart). I can't even recall if they even mentioned Hillary's mother, Simone, at all. To vetsoapfan or anyone else who can remember - did Charita have any further scenes at all on the show? I can't recall anything after Hillary's funeral, although Soap Central states her last episode was December 10th (not that SC is reliable concerning air dates).

I completely agree. There should have been a scene with Reinholt and Courtney to at least give them that final "goodbye" that they never had during their original run. It would have capped off an impressive week of cameos and Bay City history, in general. Although, on the other hand, it could have made fans demand that they bring the two of them back, myself included. I guess TPTB were just concerned with having Steve interact with current cast members? Also, I wonder if Coster and Lemay eventually reconciled? Lemay's book was published in 1981(and probably finished the year prior?). I remember reading interviews in the 1990's (or possibly the 2000's) with each of them, and they were complimentary of each other, if asked.

Lemay talks in his book about two problematic actors (leading men) who would eventually need to be replaced (this was after Reinholt was fired) - one for showing up drunk or angry at his fellow actors, the other one not bothering to learn his lines. Lemay doesn't specifically mention these problematic actors by name, but I always assumed the first actor was John Fitzpatrick, and the second was Nicolas Coster.

Sorry, yes - he hit him with that statue he got from Liz! I always get confused with the storyline because Walter always cried when he held Lenore's scarf that Wayne threw at him. I'm always reminded more of that scarf versus the statue. Crime of passion it may have been, but it still put Walter in a corner when Lenore was put on trial for Wayne's murder and he did nothing. I would love to see that, as well. Unfortunately, I doubt any of her footage as Emma still exists. That being said, I remember the time I first got to see Steve Frame meet Alice Matthews. I never thought in a million years I would ever get to see that. So, I suppose anything is possible.

I think someone previous posted in this thread an image from one of the soap mags from the 1970's featuring an interview with Reinholt. He was critical of the writing on AW, saying how the current writer failed to understand the Steven Frame that he and Agnes Nixon created when the character first appeared on the show. It's funny you mention Leon Russom as Willis. He's the only Willis I remember, but Lemay stated in his book that he didn't have the drive to write for the character of Willis once Fitzpatrick was fired and took over. I'm not sure why, as I thought Russom was a very capable actor.

It was especially jarring in 1986, when Marland had ATWT celebrate 30 years on TV by focusing on the 50th anniversary of Chris and Nancy. Not only did that anniversary focus on the core couple of the core family, they brought back Penny and Don. Compare that to GL's 50th anniversary celebration the next year. Yes, they did do a week of tributes (just a few minutes though) spotlighting events from 1979 to 1987 (because that's all they had available in the archive), but nothing that truly spotlighted either the core family (the Bauers) or the history of the show. No fan favorites returned at all. Even Another World, who basically was in a situation similar to GL (not many characters still around from before the 1980's) brought back several characters in 1989 for the 25th Anniversary, including George Reinholt (which was the biggest shock to me)!

Agreed. In order to have longevity for a character, the character NEEDS to change in order to reflect their life experiences. Some characters can stagnate, or revert back to their old ways, but good characters and good writing will reflect change and character evolution. Lemay's changes to the characters you mention above did make sense. However, I still find it interesting that Lemay chose to embody *himself* in the character of Steve Frame. Despite his obvious issues with Reinholt, Lemay wrote his whole family and family experiences around that character. That was one change that Reinholt never agreed with. Steve Frame was originally supposed to be an only child from the east coast. Now Steve Frame was from Oklahoma and had 12 siblings. vetsoapfan - what did you personally think of this shift in Steve's history once it started in 1971? I remember watching Courtney's AW footage closely when I finally was able to view it (this was after Lemay's book was published) to see if she was looking down (for her apparent queue cards) or displaying other things that were discussed in his book. I didn't see a thing that would make his claims justified. Again, that based on limited footage available. I thought Courtney did a wonderful job as Alice from what I've seen (and heard via Eddie's audio clips as well). I wish I could see more of John Fitzpatrick as Willis. From the episodes I've seen, I don't get the sense that Willis was very likable with Fitzpatrick in the role.

Exactly. Bert's funeral should have been a major event in order to properly celebrate Charita's long-standing relationship with TGL. The fact that they only mentioned Mike IN PASSING having sung at Bert's service was, frankly, pathetic. Consider how well they did HB's funeral over a decade later (Trish even showed up, for goodness' sake!), and one can see that Bert's death and funeral was just an afterthought TPTB finally chose to address. I remember deciding to watch the show again in 1986 (after having given up in 1985 and restarting just for Chris Bernau's return). When they finally had Bert pass away, I was hoping and expecting familiar faces to be present for her funeral, but no. No Mike. No Hope. No Meta, That was at the very least. What about the people who were close to Bert throughout the years. Trudy would have been pushing it because she was barely on the show show in the early 1950's. But, no Peggy Fletcher?

Most likely. If you look at some of the other soaps during this time period ("The Guiding Light", for instance), if a major, popular character would have murdered someone, it would have been by accident (Joe Werner accidentally pushing Lee Gantry out a window, for example). But in this case, Walter strangled Wayne. It may have been a "heat of the moment" action, but the writers had Walter murder Wayne. Then, Walter does nothing to help his pregnant wife as she is convicted and put away for a crime Walter committed. Perhaps if Walter had immediately confided in Lenore about his actions and lamented over what he had done, the character may have stood a chance at survival. Maybe. I don't know how the character remained popular after letting Lenore remain in prison and doing nothing. I also wanted to ask you about those who Lemay did prefer, such as the first Willis Frame, John Fitzpatrick. Reading Lemay's book, he really thought Fitzpatrick was an even better actor than Reinholt, and that he was going to use Willis as a key player in Bay City, until circumstances forced a recast. I've only seen a few episodes with Fitzpatrick in the role, but I admit I wasn't exactly "WOW'd" by him (or the Willis character, in general). Maybe I didn't have enough episodes to properly have an his work. Any thoughts on Willis/Fitzpatrick, vetsoapfan?

Lemay's take on the situation with Walter Curtin is certainly one thing I'll agree with him on. Why TPTB at that time thought it was a good idea for Walter to murder Wayne and then let Lenore rot in prison without any serious repercussions boggles my mind. There really was no way out of that situation other than either: A. killing Walter off, or B. convicting Walter and sending him to prison. The first option was the easier of the two.

I'm very glad another rare snippet (even if audio only) surfaces again from Danny Hill re: TGL. I wonder how Mart Hulswit is doing? I really wish someone could interview him about his experience on GL.

Very true, Paul. I tend to forget the time period. Although initially there was at least one other family besides the Bauers. Back in the 1950's it was the Bauer family, the Roberts family (via Meta, of course), and the Grant family. Then, it seemed in 1955 a shift from the three families to just the Bauers, with Joe being killed off and Richard and Laura Grant being written out (even though Kathy Roberts would last until 1958 and Dick Grant until around 1962). Then, you are definitely correct - the Bauer family was the core family with characters who interacted with them.