zanereed

It was especially jarring in 1986, when Marland had ATWT celebrate 30 years on TV by focusing on the 50th anniversary of Chris and Nancy. Not only did that anniversary focus on the core couple of the core family, they brought back Penny and Don. Compare that to GL's 50th anniversary celebration the next year. Yes, they did do a week of tributes (just a few minutes though) spotlighting events from 1979 to 1987 (because that's all they had available in the archive), but nothing that truly spotlighted either the core family (the Bauers) or the history of the show. No fan favorites returned at all. Even Another World, who basically was in a situation similar to GL (not many characters still around from before the 1980's) brought back several characters in 1989 for the 25th Anniversary, including George Reinholt (which was the biggest shock to me)!

Agreed. In order to have longevity for a character, the character NEEDS to change in order to reflect their life experiences. Some characters can stagnate, or revert back to their old ways, but good characters and good writing will reflect change and character evolution. Lemay's changes to the characters you mention above did make sense. However, I still find it interesting that Lemay chose to embody *himself* in the character of Steve Frame. Despite his obvious issues with Reinholt, Lemay wrote his whole family and family experiences around that character. That was one change that Reinholt never agreed with. Steve Frame was originally supposed to be an only child from the east coast. Now Steve Frame was from Oklahoma and had 12 siblings. vetsoapfan - what did you personally think of this shift in Steve's history once it started in 1971? I remember watching Courtney's AW footage closely when I finally was able to view it (this was after Lemay's book was published) to see if she was looking down (for her apparent queue cards) or displaying other things that were discussed in his book. I didn't see a thing that would make his claims justified. Again, that based on limited footage available. I thought Courtney did a wonderful job as Alice from what I've seen (and heard via Eddie's audio clips as well). I wish I could see more of John Fitzpatrick as Willis. From the episodes I've seen, I don't get the sense that Willis was very likable with Fitzpatrick in the role.

Exactly. Bert's funeral should have been a major event in order to properly celebrate Charita's long-standing relationship with TGL. The fact that they only mentioned Mike IN PASSING having sung at Bert's service was, frankly, pathetic. Consider how well they did HB's funeral over a decade later (Trish even showed up, for goodness' sake!), and one can see that Bert's death and funeral was just an afterthought TPTB finally chose to address. I remember deciding to watch the show again in 1986 (after having given up in 1985 and restarting just for Chris Bernau's return). When they finally had Bert pass away, I was hoping and expecting familiar faces to be present for her funeral, but no. No Mike. No Hope. No Meta, That was at the very least. What about the people who were close to Bert throughout the years. Trudy would have been pushing it because she was barely on the show show in the early 1950's. But, no Peggy Fletcher?

Most likely. If you look at some of the other soaps during this time period ("The Guiding Light", for instance), if a major, popular character would have murdered someone, it would have been by accident (Joe Werner accidentally pushing Lee Gantry out a window, for example). But in this case, Walter strangled Wayne. It may have been a "heat of the moment" action, but the writers had Walter murder Wayne. Then, Walter does nothing to help his pregnant wife as she is convicted and put away for a crime Walter committed. Perhaps if Walter had immediately confided in Lenore about his actions and lamented over what he had done, the character may have stood a chance at survival. Maybe. I don't know how the character remained popular after letting Lenore remain in prison and doing nothing. I also wanted to ask you about those who Lemay did prefer, such as the first Willis Frame, John Fitzpatrick. Reading Lemay's book, he really thought Fitzpatrick was an even better actor than Reinholt, and that he was going to use Willis as a key player in Bay City, until circumstances forced a recast. I've only seen a few episodes with Fitzpatrick in the role, but I admit I wasn't exactly "WOW'd" by him (or the Willis character, in general). Maybe I didn't have enough episodes to properly have an his work. Any thoughts on Willis/Fitzpatrick, vetsoapfan?

Lemay's take on the situation with Walter Curtin is certainly one thing I'll agree with him on. Why TPTB at that time thought it was a good idea for Walter to murder Wayne and then let Lenore rot in prison without any serious repercussions boggles my mind. There really was no way out of that situation other than either: A. killing Walter off, or B. convicting Walter and sending him to prison. The first option was the easier of the two.

I'm very glad another rare snippet (even if audio only) surfaces again from Danny Hill re: TGL. I wonder how Mart Hulswit is doing? I really wish someone could interview him about his experience on GL.

Very true, Paul. I tend to forget the time period. Although initially there was at least one other family besides the Bauers. Back in the 1950's it was the Bauer family, the Roberts family (via Meta, of course), and the Grant family. Then, it seemed in 1955 a shift from the three families to just the Bauers, with Joe being killed off and Richard and Laura Grant being written out (even though Kathy Roberts would last until 1958 and Dick Grant until around 1962). Then, you are definitely correct - the Bauer family was the core family with characters who interacted with them.

I really doubt we'll ever get to see those 1973 episodes ever. As you said, P&G don't care at all. Even if they did, I wonder what the cost would be to de-archive those films, plus the cost of transferring them. Also, who knows that the condition of the film prints are at this point? It's a shame, as those films are likely the only remaining footage from 1973, other than the episode that thankfully Roger Newcomb/Soap Classics put on the "Bauer Family" DVD set. I think one of the primary reasons for Don Stewart's popularity that continued well into the 1970's was his looks. I don't think he had as much chemistry with Lynne Adams (or Kathryn Hays, not sure on that one since she played Leslie so briefly) as he did with Barbara Rodell. Yes, some of those storylines I would love to see at least some episodes to get a glimpse as to how this played out. I too was always curious with how Leslie ended up with Stanley Norris when Mike wasn't available. And I would definitely love to see any episode with Nancy Addison as Kit Vestid!

Well, some TGL episodes from 1973 are still sitting at the UCLA archive doing nothing but likely rotting away. Those would be fascinating to watch. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get to see them. I know that 1970 was still a transition period for TGL, with some long-term characters leaving (Paul Fletcher, Johnny Fletcher the following year, etc), and the Norris family essentially settling in. Stanley was the first arrival in 1969, and then the Barbara, Ken and Holly followed thereafter (and Andy a few years later). Roger certainly wasn't the same person initially as he was during his 1978 to 1980 run. In fact, looking at the show between 1964 and 1971, there really wasn't any consistent core family other than the Bauers. Adding to that, the adult Ed was still only 4 years into his run by 1970, and Mike had only just returned to the show in 1968. In both cases new actors were playing the roles (Mart Hulswit beginning in 1969 and Don Stewart in late 1968), so you are probably right, Carl - it might have made the new Norris family easier to accept?

Michael Zaslow started on TGL in April of 1971. Holly wouldn't be involved with Ed until a year or two after this. She was mainly involved with Roger initially.

Correct, 1975 to 1981 (when the "disco" theme made its first appearance!). I think there were only two versions - the original with the female voices and the second with the strings replacing the female voices. Unfortunately, I can't remember when the strings version came into play. I want to say it was 1976, but I can't be certain.

Thanks for that link, Carl. This YT user is really putting up some great stuff, even if it's just audio clips. I was hoping he would have some GL! If I recall, this scene posted by CBS on YT back in 2009 is the culmination to the audio clip (update: which the YT user actually states in the audio clip - I should read a bit more!!!).

Whoops - I completely forgot about Victoria being on GL in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I wasn't actively watching at the point.

I noticed that Suzzane Douglas was the Black woman featured in this episode. I've always liked her. Does anyone know how long was she on the show? Was she a Dayplayer? GL should've expanded her character, Douglas is such an elegant actress, IMO and it was their loss not to utilize her on the show long-term. I think she was just on for a few episodes in 1986. You are correct, that was a waste of talent. It reminded me of when Brandon Spaulding was revealed to have an unknown child in 1984, Victoria (the climax to that Barbados storyline debacle). I thought the show was going to add her to help diversify the cast. Did the show ever use Victoria at all?

This was right when Christopher Bernau came back to the show. I remember I started watching again because of that, as I had given up the show the year before because of the cast overhaul. I agree, Carl, the tone is completely uneven, as is the cast. I remember them pushing Simon and Jessie as the new supercouple, but I don't remember them catching on (as they, along with Calla, would all be off the show in 1987). They certainly didn't with me.

Yes, most of the 1970's are long gone, but not all, as there are a few random episodes around. In fact, Roger Newcomb found two GL episodes from 1976 that he never had a chance to get released via Soap Classics, along with a Bauer compilation video that likely included various scenes from the 1970's. I'm guessing Roger would have found some more if given more time. Some episodes from 1973 exist at UCLA, but they are not even allowed to be viewed. There are clips that have surfaced on YouTube over the years (one from 1975 as Mike Bauer confronts Hope's college professor, etc.). I wish that the German GL sets would have continued (which would have gotten us through the rest of 1979, but I guess there were either low sales or P & G put a stop to them).

Hope should have never left the show. I always liked Hope. I will never understand why she wasn't brought back. During that time period you mentioned should have been filled with Hope and India instead of those dreadful characters. I wish Hope had remaining on the show as well. As mentioned by others in this thread, there was talk of bringing back both Hope and Mike Bauer in 1986, but it never materialized. I think part of the reason that Hope never returned after 1987 was the SORAS-ing of Alan-Michael in that same year. Although not impossible, it would seem a hard sell to put someone like Elvera Roussel next to Carl T. Evans or Rick Hearst and make it seem like mother and son. However, they eventually should have recast and had Hope return to involve herself in Alan-Michael's life. We never really saw Alan-Michael conflicted between him being both a Bauer and Spaulding.

You've probably already watched these on YT, but just in case, here are a few episodes with Alan and Hope on the island from 1979:

It seems like vetsoapfan and I share the same view here. In my opinion, certain cracks were already beginning to show in 1983 with certain cast members being written out, but by the end of 1984 it was a completely different show, and not really for the better. For example, if you were a Bauer fan, September of 1984 was not a good month for you. Ed Bauer was recast again, Mike Bauer was written out, and Hillary Bauer was killed off - all in the same month!

As you state - the surviving episodes of, at least, ATWT and TGL were in the hands of Soap Classics, who were not only putting out very good DVD compilations, but who were also apparently supposed to be digitizing the P & G soap archive. I assumed at the time that this was being done for future digital distribution of these two soaps. I did not think AW was included initially, however I remember Roger Newcomb (who was helping to compile the releases) had hopes of adding AW down the line. Unfortunately, no sooner had this project begun, than P & G pulled the license from Soap Classics, took back all of their tapes, and I guess left this project in either permanent limbo or perhaps scrapped altogether? I still don't understand why that happened, especially as is appeared that both the ATWT and TGL compilations were selling well. I completely agree that there is both an interest as well as an outlet for rebroadcasting these soaps. It just appears that P & G have zero interest, themselves, in doing exactly that.

Robin (Lang) Fletcher threw herself in front of a truck, committing suicide. According to synopses posted on Daytime Royalty, Leslie died in June 1976 and Joe died in November 1976. Thank you for the confirmation. Can someone also remind me - I know Leslie died on camera, but I think Joe died off camera (I think he was in another country at the time of his death). Am I remembering that correctly?

Didn't Lynne Adams want to leave the show, so they decided to kill off Leslie? Also, can you recall how long it was between Joe Werner's death and Leslie Bauer's death in 1976? I seem to recall that they weren't too far off from each other. Yes, referring to the show as just "Guiding Light" never made much sense to me, either

The character of Ivy was not particularly interesting, and I found little chemistry because her and Mike. It's just as well that the show dropped her. And yes, Hulswit could imbue Ed with many different colors, much better than any of the other actors did (although Gentry was good during his initial 1966-69 run). Van Fleet was actually a good choice to play Chuck Tyler on AMC, and he played well against his co-stars there, but he was simply all wrong for Ed Bauer, looks-wise and temperament-wise. Yes, for whatever reason it seemed that Stewart had more chemistry with May back in 1979/1980 versus when she was recast as Ivy two years later. It's a shame that Marland killed off Renee, but to be fair Marland's plans were for Mike's new love interest to be Jennifer Richards. I also wonder if TOTB didn't consider bringing back Robert Gentry when they were looking to fire Hulswit. Although, I think Gentry was already on All My Children or Another World in 1981, wasn't he?

I remember Stewart definitely had chemistry with May when she was playing Renee, but I'm trying to remember if that same chemistry was there a few years later when May was playing Ivy. There's only one episode up on YT with Stewart and May as Mike and Ivy talking about Lucien Goff. I really can't recall. And yes, IMHO, Mart Hulswit was probably the best Ed out of the four adult actors who portrayed him.

From what I've understood, Mike Bauer's triangle with Lillian and Alexandra would have created conflict with Lujack and Beth's relationship. I, too, would have loved Mike and Alexandra being the end game, though, as it would have meant that Mike would have been marrying his enemy's (Alan) sister. That would have also been confusing, I suppose, as Alan Michael's grandfather would have been married to his aunt :-) Regardless, it could have continued the Bauer/Spaulding conflict for years to come, especially if Hope had been brought back. I actually think that if Gail Kobe hadn't been forced to recast Ed Bauer (meaning Peter Simon had stayed), that they eventually would have recast Mike. They probably would have sent Mike off to Washington as originally written for a mission, then brought him back a few months later with a new actor. I think that was just too many recasts in too short of a time period, and Gail probably decided that Ed was the one Bauer they needed to keep since he had family ties being married to Maureen. Mike didn't have any at that point. Speaking of Mike Bauer, I wonder why Mike never ended up with Trish Lewis? That romance was on and off in 1981/1982 and just never went anywhere. Did Stewart reject that pairing as well?