DynamiteKiddo

This Ben dog$h!t is Jason Morgan level.  And notice how they don't even have "bad" characters (Eve, for example) badmouth him anymore?  This is insane.  They almost completely keep Abby and her immediate family away from him, but it probably won't be long until they start exalting him, too.  I bet if they put him in a scene with Thomas, it'd be about Ben lamenting the loss he suffered that he isn't his father and Ciara would tell him he would have and will be a great dad and he'll right the wrongs of his childhood, etc. DISGUST.

2 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Ahh yes. It definitely felt that way. They were all gung-ho DAYS but then "bye"! lol. It just left you feeling ... were they dumped and allowed to spin it? Was it mutual? Did they bolt? I'd say they made the right call, even though I miss Christopher Sean (nothing against Marci Miller, she was just too blah to me as Abigail and it wasn't the right role for her, and I didn't love how she played her, when she had the fire in her to play it differently; anywho ... but I also blame agenda driven Dena Higley's writing too, I saw a vast difference when Ron took over). Not sure where Fode is at the moment ... ? lol

 

(and of course their gungho attitude towards DAYS is likely because they enjoyed their time their and maybe didn't exactly want to leave but knew they needed to, so I'd imagine Christopher Sean would return if the timing were right and he were asked)

Oh I think they were looking for greener pastures.  Christopher Sean very deservingly believes in himself... so I don't think he'd return to "Days" in a long-term capacity unless he felt he really exhausted all his options, which he hasn't.  But TPTB should have done so much more with him.  They really bet on the wrong horse.  CS was fantastic and we all talk about his spark with CM's Will and how hot they were together, but his initial story with Sonny in 2014/15 was really compelling and it became very unclear who the "root-for" couple was, which is the best kind of triangle.  Then FS left, GW was fired, and CS was back-burned.  Such a waste.

I can go on and on about Marci Miller... I thought she was the best young actress that "Days" found in many years... but the Higley writing was f*cking trash with Dario/Abby/Chad/Gabi (was it endless baseball or basketball flashbacks?  OMFG lol), then we had to endure Stefan/Gabby/Abby/Chad... and Miller played a completely different Abby from Mansi, who became so beloved in the role.  And even though Miller's Abby was actually more of the traditional long-suffering soap heroine *I* wanted Abby to be, Mansi's fiery, unpredictable portrayal just fits better and when she came back at the end of 2018, it felt SO right.  But now we don't have a full-time Abby, though (I think she's really needed) and try as Ron Carlivati may, Sarah is NOT cutting it as a(n older) replacement.  I'm surprised they don't interact, lol.

3 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Thank you Sindacco. I really wasn't sure and couldn't remember if we ever heard for sure (and it's probably possible I just don't remember lol). It seemed a bit sudden at the time I thought, he "wasn't leaving" then voila he did, so I wasn't 100% sure. You never know with this show, lol!

Ya I remember he and Marci Miller taped their last scenes on the same day.  It was really shocking because they were really enthusiastic about "Days" publicly, but then it felt obvious that they were waiting to leave and try their luck outside daytime (I think this happened around the same time as how Pierson Fode similarly left B&B).

RIP.  He was amazing.

4 hours ago, Cat said:

 

The fact that they have delayed it has dampened my expectations somewhat. It suggests that they are hastily trying to re-cut the season and find some excitement in the footage. Honestly, I wouldn't mind a 12-episode season for BH if that is the case. Keep it pacey. I don't need filler. The past three seasons have been filler enough!

 

I am also hesitant about the new BH production team. ATL changed its longtime production team around S9-10 and ever since I haven't been able to completely connect with the show. Could this happen with BH too? We get a new production team bringing in 'catchy' music and speedy Kardashianesque jump-cuts and whatnot, but ultimately not understanding the show or the women and not really caring to go deeper with them.

 

I am re-watching S5 ("You don't know what I go through AT NIGHT!" / Amsterdam / Brandi imploding) -- what a fun and wild ride that was. The drama and personal interactions were intense. And lord help me but I really liked Yolanda that season.

BH s5 is amazing.  And because of Billie Reed, I'll always love Lisa Rinna... but if she's going to OWN IT, she should own that during that season, she full knowingly turned Kim's relapse into THE story on the show for years.  Kim is responsible for herself (even if Kim doesn't think that), but Rinna point blank did that.  She knows how reality tv works.  And I know it's unpopular on here, but I really like Yolanda for the most part.

It's hard for me to get excited about BH because I really don't like any of the women except for Rinna, and I don't like how snakey she is and I hate her home storyline with her daughters (more Harry and Lois!).  I really enjoy Denise, though.  I hope this is the year their ridiculous pact to protect each other (with everyone's lawsuits, etc.) ends.  I hope we can count on a scorned Camille and thirsty Brandi for that.  But I am not looking forward to the defenestration of Denise, who was the breakout star since Erika.

Missy's delivery of, "you missed it.  You were locked up" was really, really good... and then Kate running off.  Kate's scenes with Roman were weird, though--I get she's lying for self-preservation, but since they're teetering between shades of grey with her in this story, it would've been better for her to fall on her sword in front of him in remorse/defeat.  It's not like he would actually make things legally worse for her.  It almost feels like they're beating her down for her to do something really bad again.

Hope/Gina was SO much better in scenes with Shawn and Jenn than Stevano and Rafe.

I have nothing to say about Cin.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

Tonight's RHONJ reunion is exactly why I hate reunions because there is always someone who never shuts up. Jennifer was so obnoxious and annoying. Nothing was discussed for very long because she had to make a snarky comment or get screen time. I wish the producers would cut off the mikes of the housewives who do this. 

Jennifer was SO overboard tonight.  It was insane.  I'm surprised she went wishy washy on the Melissa pregnancy segment because she gave zero f*cks about everything else she was saying... and she wiggled out of her obviously shady comment about Marge's parenting.  Maybe somebody coached her to lay off the parenting stuff.  This show has dangerously veered off into "what kind of family are YOU?" territory.

Jennifer had me rofl when she unironically said she thought she was a very patient person.  Those kind of ignorant, lack of self-awareness moments are amazing on all HW shows.  But for as insufferable as she was, she was shutting down the other couch in a Caroline Manzo-esque effective ass way.  Even Marge didn't know how to respond back to her, lol.

56 minutes ago, chrisml said:

Why does it matter how Melissa came onto the show? We're talking about a show where the main housewife is a convicted felon who hangs out with Danielle Staub (at least until Teresa threw her to the side when her own violence was exposed). Badmouthing Teresa and using Danielle to get on the show seems like child's play to me. It also seems like old news since this was discussed years ago. If anything, Melissa coming on the show gave Teresa more of a hold on the show since she now had her brother and the other relatives. Even in the pre-Italy part of the finale, Melissa was responsible for giving Teresa her big moment.

 

 

Melissa (and Joey) tried to dismantle Teresa's entire life because they were jealous of her fame and Joey wanted lash out at his sister and parents on tv where any of then can rewind this stuff for the rest of their lives.  Melissa & Joey successfully infiltrated Teresa's life and took most of her support, then disgustingly turned on all the people they enlisted to turn on her when Joey finally came to his senses that it was enough after Joe & Teresa wrecked their and their daughters' lives and Melissa decided it would suit her image to "let bygones be bygones."

I hate them because of their overwhelming hypocrisy and how they cowardly threw away their cousins like garbage.  And it was ultimately Jacqueline's fault for getting involved in someone else's family drama, but she turned on Teresa to defend Melissa to the death and Melissa didn't lift a finger for her in season 7.  It was stunning.

I do agree that Teresa owes her place as the star of NJ because of Bravo's decision to center the show around her family drama.  Interesting but very true take.

6 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

They could have written that as part of the time jump. After Ben was sent to prison, Marlena's practices are brought under investigation, causing some conflict between John and Marlena. She's eventually is cleared, but to get over her guilt from Jordan's death, she goes to work in Europe allowing Princess Gina to move in on John. But when Marlena comes back to Salem, she torn over whether or not Ben is guilty.

 

But I think that makes a little too much sense lol

This is a good idea!

10 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

 

Hahaha I thought the same thing... awfully presumptuous lyrics!  And yes, there'll always be that dark cloud over Melissa regarding how she got on the show in the first place. Damn, if only Danielle had finally spilled the tea onscreen (i.e. "did you acknowledge your nephew?") 

I agree that Danielle has the Facebook messages saved.  Once Bravo and Teresa decided to stop the Gorga feud as the centerpiece of the show after "camp," Melissa got off so easy with everyone just "forgetting" about seasons 3-5.  The only reason I can think why Jacqueline and Kathy aren't exposing her (because they have to know EVERYthing, esp. Kathy and Rosie) is because they'd be seriously implicating themselves in God knows what.  And hopefully after everything, Kathy and Rosie don't want to further disrupt their broken family, esp. while Teresa&Joey1.0 (K&R's mom and Teresa & Joey's dad) are still alive. And Dina knows a lot more than she's saying, as we saw in the S6 reunion.  But she likely wants to keep her self-proclaimed "moral high ground" and even more likely doesn't want Melissa to spill what she knows about her/Caroline/Chris.  And unless she really blows her top sky high one day, Dolores isn't going to say anything.  But Danielle has nothing left to lose--show the messages!  But Danielle doesn't even have the later information like the others, though.

After all these years as a viewer, I just really, really, really want Melissa to be exposed for the grimey, disloyal snake that she is.  And I'm not a Teresa fan.  This is just about justice, and show-wise, Melissa (and Joey) came out of this pretty unscathed while Teresa (and Joe) were characterized as very evil people and Jacqueline and Kathy ultimately lost all their face and their jobs.  I wonder if Melissa even fully understands how lucky she is and how quickly she could still lose everything??

20 hours ago, Cat said:

There *is* something deeply tragic about Danielle. As we learned in S1 and S2, Danielle has been rejected all her life, and she probably counts her Sicilian teenage mother giving her up for adoption as the first rejection. I will always remember when Danielle found out her birth mother died before they could ever meet. It felt like such a blow on top of everything else Danielle was going through -- the Manzos, Lauritas and Giudices essentially made her a pariah in Franklin Lakes, while Kims G and D hastily switched teams to join them.

 

Danielle desperately wanted acknowledgement that she had been wronged, and the other women were never going to give that to her. But I think the most powerful visual I remember from her early seasons was Jacqueline Laurita (no innocent bystander) taunting Danielle to come out from the car. This was just after Teresa had chased Danielle through the Posche fashion show and Ashlee had yanked her weave out, and it was a chilling moment. 

 

As for the Marge, I love her wit, smarts and moments of empathy, so I'm pretty much drinking the Kool-Aid as far as she is concerned. But Bravo's got me questioning everybody's true intentions on these shows! Obviously these women are actual real people, multifaceted and complicated, so they can't always fit a one-dimensional heroine mould. I do wonder if there is more to Marge than we are shown, though, and when the mask will start to slip. 

 

@chrisml I don't think anyone was blaming Melissa for what Teresa did. That is all on Teresa. She has acted this way since S1, stirring people up against a common target. What I was saying was that I think Melissa was lowkey happy to broadcast this nugget of information for her own ends.

Anything with Danielle in the first two years was very, very sad.

S2 Posche fashion show is stunning.  It's easy to overlook her, but from the beginning of that confrontation after there was no turning back, you can see Jacqueline come into the side of the frame to back up Teresa with that "her house is not in foreclosure!" and then she follows them... and then the "I read your court records Danielle!... that you beat someone with a 9 millimeter pistol..." And then when she's folding her arms across her chest outside of the car!!!  And Daniel's hysterically screaming and crying on 911, "and Jacqueline Laurita's WAITIN' for me owtside mYY car!"  And notice how she refers to Ashlee as "Jacqueline Laurita's daughter" to the police.  OMG s2 gives me life!!!  But I overlooked how harrowing it all was (for Danielle and what it said about all of them as people) and it laid the groundwork for the sicko show NJ became from seasons 3-5, and even season 6 with those ratchet twins and demonic Jim & Amber.

I really enjoy Margaret.  I kinda didn't like her at first because Siggy self destructed like a very defective robot because of her... but that was on Siggy and her weird, ultimately fragile self-image she felt she had to maintain (still love Siggy, though).  But The Marge is so fun, but she misguidedly aligned herself with Danielle in the first place and problems follow her wherever she goes.  Usually at a certain point, that stops being coincidence.

Joe & Teresa have been exploiting their family for $$ for a long, long time... remember all that magazine sh!t?  It's unfortunately probably the only way they've gotten out of their horrible legal/financial mess. Teresa is going to need to keep hustling to put her daughters through college, maintain their lifestyle, and God knows what Joe will try to "negotiate" if and when they get divorced.

But no one in that whole Gorga family is any better.  These are people who wrecked their whole family on/for television.  Seasons 3-5 are heartbreaking, and more than the christening or retreat, the scene that really stays with me is Tre & Ro screaming about their parents in that bar.  Teresa, Melissa, Kathy, and their families have no scruples.

6 hours ago, Cat said:

I actually enjoyed Melissa pretending to run Envy because it usually meant Kim D would be showing up on her broomstick to announce that she was selling surplus Envy stock at an 80% discount, lol.

 

@DynamiteKiddo had a great point about the Jersey HWs exhibiting the bad side of their characters with the good. Danielle is no exception. I feel bad for the constant rejection/banishment from her friendship groups. However, the reason she gets rejected is because she is a loon who demands that her friends be utterly devoted to her 24/7. She must be exhausting to deal with.

LOLOL about Kim D.!!!!!

I think Danielle is a psychopath--she well proved that in s2.  But there is something SO tragic about her.  I do think that she experienced really deep pain at losing Jacqueline in s2 and she was bullied by Dina (the real b*tch on this show), Caroline, and Teresa... but she mishandled everything, including sorta kinda threatening to KILL them at some point.  OMFG lol.  But I question her authenticity since her return.  She's had real moments come through a lot, but she's definitely playing for the cameras.  But the Marge falling out has been like watching a multiple car crash with fatalities on the freeway.  Wow.  There is more to Margaret than HW is showing.

10 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

How did they all turn this around on Danielle? Danielle shouldn’t have mentioned that Teresa was a part of it? She ended her friendship with Danielle because she wanted Danielle to take the fall all by herself, that’s bullish.it.

It's mind blowing.  But Teresa and Danielle becoming friends after seasons 1 & 2 was... I can't even articulate how WTF that was.  Danielle is stupid again, though, for leaving and letting them off the hook essentially.  She foolishly thinks she's set with Marty's house and she'll use Housewives to launch a successful cooking career.  She won't and she'll be as desperate as she was in seasons 1-2 until she married Marty.  I think Danielle is certifiable, but I feel bad for how down and out she always becomes.

I think it will turn out to be Summer.  But there has been so much damage from this situation and the payoff will likely be disappointing.  Will won't be adequately vindicated after all he's lost, Victor and Xander won't face appropriate consequences, and Maggie, Justin, and Sonny's lives have been turned upside down and they'll just move on.  It's a cluster f, which is fine, but it should carry all the gravity this soap can give, and I just don't see that happening.  I also wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere down the line (esp. if the show doesn't get another pickup ) that they'll do the Bonnie/Adrienne switch courtesy Dr. FrankenRolf.

I know RC was dropping anvils about Evan, but there should have been a LOT more buildup to this.

I feel really bad about this Maggie situation... but again, it feels rushed.  Everything on this show feels shoehorned, and has for, like, 10 years.

Wow, Tre.  Lol.  This show has evolved into something very nice--it's not the life-destroying, scum bag stuff that came to define this show... but it's not just fluff, either. The women are equally contemptible and super relatable.  Even the newbies are satisfyingly complex... Jennifer is a thirsty tryhard who lives in a disgusting wealth bubble, but that's balanced with her really lovely, relatable family life.  And Jackie is a sour puss killjoy who also seems to be crippled by her privilege, but those eating disorder scenes are raw.  This show is very well-rounded and Danielle brings the crazy housewives drama (don't know how they're gonna make due without that next year).

But the vets remain problematic... Tre is Tre at this point, I guess.  And I LOVE Dolores, but she can be very unreasonable and angry, and it goes unanswered for.  And I can't help but think Margaret has some hardcore shady life stuff happening that's not brought to light.  And when is Melissa's day of reckoning gonna come?!?  For whatever reasons, Jacqueline, Caroline, and KATHY & ROSIE are keeping quiet about her... but I hope Danielle will finally tell all at the reunion.

So is this Gabi situation a freak coincidence or is this foreshadowing another twist in the baby switch that I cannot begin to figure out??

I'm surprised RC didn't give Evan & Abby a "wink to the audience" scene since Brock Kelly played her high school crush for a min 15 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I've surprisingly grown to really enjoy Chloe.  She's such a quintessential soap bimbo--I love it!  (I know this is SO not who she was originally.) And her friendship with Nicole (however insane after, you know, the flesh eating bacteria) is lovely and has become (to me) one of the real cornerstones of modern "Days."

BUT NB is really lucky that, for whatever reasons, they are so committed to trying over and over and over again to find a place for Chloe on the canvas when every storyline she's had since her '07 return has basically totally flopped (except for her affair with Philip and the subsequent wtd, but I know a lot of people didn't like that because of Daniel and Melanie and then TomSell completely ruined it by making Parker Daniel's after all).  If it weren't for her shockingly wonderful friendship with Nicole (which is really good for the Nicole character, too), I'd see no reason for this character past NB's really great charisma and sex appeal (because it's definitely not acting ability).

1 hour ago, Antoyne said:

Apparently the show cut all the flashbacks for Caroline's funeral. I would've like to have seen Ron's original funeral for Caroline.

I would, too.  But it still doesn't change the made up stories--so weird when they had SO much real stuff to work with.  And even though it was a family thing, they ought to have included more characters... not just for Caroline, but for more of Peggy McCay's colleagues to be there to pay tribute to her life.  It was disappointing.  And I think Patsy Pease was out of their hands, but I wonder what the coversation was re. Billy Warlock and Darrin Brooks?

Back to current "Days"... how crazy is it that "Gina" and Jenn's meeting happened off screen?!?  That should have been one of the BIG moments of the story, considering it was the event to basically kick off and frame the TJ.  This is a production issue, and if this kind of stuff can't be worked out, the show can never truly improve.  If the schedule can't accommodate this, it is broken.

Omg Tommy lol.  Did they mention he died in 2010?  He feels like he was retconned out of the show.

Bill dying is fine I guess, but if you're gonna bother to do it, it should have impact, because of how relevant he still is through multiple connections.  I really enjoyed MC as Marie in 2010, but that's a character who has drifted really, really far away from current "Days"... even with Nick (who was random back in '06).  Having Maggie and Julie mention her dying and playing two flashbacks... I'd think that was perfectly fine.  It just feels like a waste to kill Bill this way.  But considering how RC blundered Caroline's funeral... oh man.  And I know he has his haters and he (and FV) did drive me away from GH (not even mother f'n Guza & JFP did that), but I know Ron Carlivati has it in him for these events--Asa's death/funeral (I forget what milestone that was for OLTL) was some of the best written (and produced) soap I've seen.

Bill Hayes' tribute was lovely.  Bill Horton's death was not.  As a way to tie into Hayes' anniversary and a means to write out JJ (and Abby?), it was totally unnecessary.  If they were going to continue to inexplicably not use him, then just leave him off canvas.  Without Laura, Mike, and Lucas (and Kate and Maggie, who are ON THE DAMN SHOW lol), this was a disappointing close for one of this show's biggest tent pole characters.  (Even Kayla recently worked with him... Bill was not a ridiculously forgotten character hella removed from the current canvas.)

Bill's branch of the Horton family was the messiest and there was still a lot of angst to be mined.  One of the dumbest things this show did was fully integrate Lucas into the Horton family, as it provided their WASP asses with some very real, complicated conflict.  And they never knew whether Mike and Jenn hated Bill (and Lucas) or not... whitewashing all this is bad from a dramatic perspective.

And I'm surprised RC doesn't want to use Bill & Laura for semi-regular visits, as they have high history and camp value with Kate.  (I remember Dena Higley being fond of Laura vs. Kate.)

As for the wedding--I loved it lol.  Too bad more characters weren't there.  I surprisingly felt bad for Gabi, which I credit the TJ for... we saw how much love and success she accumulated over the missing year, so I could appreciate all she lost.  And despite their efforts (sincere or not), from a soap pov, I get why she and Julie will never not hate each other.  I also appreciated her telling TRUTHS  at the police department about Abby and Lani and how because they're heroines, they get away with everything.  Gabi is so interesting, in part, because the writing has been so bad the whole time she's been on... she gets a TON of focus and the other characters constantly forgive or overlook her "sins," but she ultimately always loses.  As a concept, Gabi is a conundrum.  And I feel like Stefan's memory is getting the Ben treatment.  Oiy.  Lol.

14 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

 

Hmm, I'm not seeing that, unless they've changed something up in the last month? (I'm a month behind).

 

The thing about people living in hotel rooms or showcasing couples in just a tiny bedroom set with a random bed is that it totally erases any personal touches to the characters. (Same thing happened to GL when everyone lived in a Beacon Hotel room).  It makes everything interchangeable and no "stakes" in having someone kicked out of their home, a child having to live with a different family member, or a relationship ending and needing to find their own place. People look like they come and go with just one suitcase and move into a room that is already furnished. When they pack up, the furnishings stay for the next occupant to use. 

It's not perfect, but I think there's been a huge improvement in the last couple years.  The updates to the Kiriakis and Horton sets are great, in my opinion.  The Kiriakis redecorating looks like something Maggie would have done in the late '10s.  (I admit all that teal had to grow on me, but I love the two kinds of wallpaper now.) Putting wood floors in the Horton home is so much better than the white carpet.  And changing the green felt sacrelig', but that super muted blue is lovely.  The art got slightly changed (I love the stacked botanical prints to the right of the fireplace).  The spirit of Alice's home is completely intact, but it feels like Jennifer's now.

Eric's apartment has his Africa photography.  J&M's townhouse isn't as hideous... and though obviously redressed, Kayla's condo's furniture and drapes feel like her... the Titan CEO office has those Greek wall sculptures, which is obvious but I like to think it amusingly reflects Victor's nouveau riche, self-congratulatory tackiness.  Rafe's kitchen is obviously decorated by Gabi and reflects her Pinterest-esque style, their family (Arianna's art), and even a little bit of their Latin American culture.  The 3-in-1 Basic Black office feels like a contemporary space Nicole would work in, it's  a very masculine space for Eli/JJ, and Gina's layer created tons of character mood.  A bigger budget would really help this set out, though.  Then the square clearly has Gabi Chic, Saxtons and the Bistro, Ornament Home Decor (the sign has that Greek wreath looking metal sculpture from the K mansion on it), Bookclub bookstore (for JJ lolol), and Salem Inn.  A few years ago, it had nothing.  And this is much better than the 2011 storefronts.  Even the small DiMansion study has so many little vignettes in those bookcases.  And the Chabby in Paris set looked European and reflected Abby's art background.

Of course the floating bedroom sets are terrible, but it's better than when everyone was having sex on their living room couches lol.

This show is never gonna be like when Tom Langan was EP/HW and almost every character had their own home with bedrooms and kitchens, but I really feel like they're trying after a decade aesthetic hell.  Sorry for the long set post!  Lol.

6 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

I agree I liked the darker production values during 2015-2016 and previously with Ed Scott in 2007/2008. It's a shame they go back to harsh lighting. At least it's not pink like it was for years.

 

I think they are trying to do their best with the sets and giving a little more variety but they need to find a happy medium.

Ed Scott produced a great show.  Even Steve Wyman's "Days" looked pretty good (minus the "special effects).  It wasn't until Gary Tomlim that the show aesthetically went to hell.

Recently, I thought the lighting was so good for the outdoor nighttime scenes with the car crash.  Production has super steppped up, but it's so obvious there isn't any money lol.  At least they're trying again.  I especially like how personalized and detailed the sets have become.