soapfave06

That’s unfortunate, at least we know the show tried. I would rather not see a recast, all they can do is move on. 
 

The closest we could have gotten was Olivia with Nate, Malcolm and Mamie, we know VR is never stepping foot back and frankly she has nothing to come back to. 

5 hours ago, Vee said:

My idea some years back always was to have Dan Wolek (maybe going by Daniel) return as a new love interest for Blair. He would have long since left medicine, would have spent years away in dark places. He would be a troubled, gray character with ties to higher levels of the international criminal element, but he would be a good man beneath. The idea was casting someone like Grant Aleksander, Michael Park or Brian Bloom, and to craft someone with enough gravitas and stature to compete in the audience's mind with the spectre of the Todds who would no longer be a going concern post-Me Too era. Further, bringing back Daniel would bring back the Woleks - you could have Michael Storm appear with father and son estranged for years, and Daniel would also have a runaway young adult son or perhaps multiple children who could shore up a youth scene. (A roughneck young cousin could romance Kevin and Kelly's kid Zane.)

Speaking of Katrina Karr: By the same token, I'd wanted to do a story where Bo, on the cusp of mandatory retirement, reopens an ancient LPD serial killer cold case a la Zodiac - something dating back to Ed Hall's time that was never solved. Fearing the culprit has returned and trying to beat the clock on his exit date Bo would pore through Ed's records, and this could lead to a guest appearance from the great Nancy Snyder as Katrina, who knew Ed well and knew the streets of the city in those years, and maybe some of the victims. It could also be a nice flashback to that era of the late '70s/early '80s, where I agree the vibes were immaculate.

I’ll happily accept any ideas you have in your head, seriously, I would happily read them all! Haha 

Daniel had such a clean slate, I love the idea of him with chemistry magnet Kassie/Blair, and taking the mantle from Todd as well defined gray character. 

And actually, the scene Katrina was in was with Ed, they had such great friendship chemistry and I can’t think of a better way to honor that era. 

I watched a few episodes from 1983 on YT and the characters are just so immaculate, though the show moves at such an odd pace. In one episode, there is a hunt for a cash prize that begins and ends in one episode, even with half the cast present. In another, so many revelations come out regarding Bo/Delila/Asa come out at break neck speed and even that episode began with Clint getting his butt kicked by Asa’s goons.  
 

It is a shame they couldn’t find a way to keep a few of the late 70s-early 80s golden era characters: Katrina, Brad, Marco, Ed, Carla, Sadie.
 

Brad and Marco at least made it half way through the Rauch era, but of course never were the same. I thought Brad and Tina had great chemistry they could play off of. 

Katrina would have been great supporting character for a community feel, and of course the ties to Jenny and Brad. 
 

Ellen Holly and Al Freeman as Carla and Ed have such a great theatrical, old Hollywood feel to their acting, they should have been a writers dream. I think Carla would better serve as a successor to Dr. Will Vernon as a psychiatrist than a judge, and Llanview had plenty of crazies in the 80s. 
 

I would also say they excelled at casting Ava Hadad as Cassie, had they even remotely tried to cast a good Danny Wolek and Josh Hall, they could have had a charismatic, legacy centered youth set to build from in the early 80s as AMC was killing it with Greg/Jenny and Angie/Jesse with Liza mixed in. 
 

I love the late-80s utter camp, but the entire reliance on Viki/Clint/Cord/Tina and later Sarah/Megan, really hurt the show for a good two years when it dried up/the actors left and they completely failed to write in a single new family in that time. 
 

Now with that said, Viki and Clint not being at the center of most of these episodes is shocking, Rauch did make a great choice to revamp with Viki/Clint as the focal point. In some episode they are almost supporting players. 

I can’t wait to see this, looks fun! 

That time of DAYS was pretty great and for the most part, character driven. If they had given John/Marlena some better material and not destroyed Jennifer and Nicole at the altar of Daniel, I don’t think I would have had complaints. Nick/Gabi/Will/Sonny could have lasted years, Sami/Gabi/Kate teaming up to dispose of Nick’s body was awesome, but for some reason I remember it all falling apart and losing interest with his return and murder. But from Fall 2012-Fall 2013, added with the return of Kristen, it was pretty on fire. 
 

I think Banus could command a scene, wish they did more with Gabi in contrast to Sonny and Will and versus Sami, and then when she finally had a great pairing with Stefan, they killed him off and did the Jake debacle. And I must admit, I did love the story of the heart transplant and Gabi controlling Julie’s heart lol

I wish soaps would introduce characters like this more often, gives time to test the chemistry and where they fit best in the canvas and the see the strengths of the actor. 
 

I don’t know if she exactly counts but Tina on OLTL was brought in as Viki's ward, seemed to just cause trouble here and there with no successful pairing or long term story until leaving, returning in 1984 searching for her father and catapulting to the front burner. I wonder who dug into the history books and decided to go there? 

3 hours ago, Khan said:

 

I agree with both of your statements.

In my mind, Larry and Karen reunited eventually.  It was one of those "chance encounter" things, where they ran into each other accidentally while Larry was in Chicago on business.  However, I don't see them ever remarrying, nor do I see Karen ever willing to return to Llanview.  Instead, Larry and Karen began a "Same Time, Next Year"-type of arrangement, where they would agree to meet once a year and resume their affair, with the understanding that Larry couldn't ask Karen any questions about her life now.  Larry would be concerned for Karen's well-being, of course.  In time, however, he would come to understand and accept that this new arrangement would be all that Karen could commit herself to.

Now, here is where I might work in Karen's return.  First, I would bring back Michael Storm for an arc where the long-absent Dr. Wolek raises Viki's and others' concerns that he is exhibiting signs of dementia.  Eventually, Larry would be diagnosed with Alzheimer's or Lewy Body Dementia.  Danny and Wanda would return to Llanview in order to discuss with Viki what should be done about Larry.  Together, the three would agree that Larry should remain in Llanview, at a memory care center, so Viki can keep a close eye on him.  Wanda would return to her bookstore/cafe in Seattle.  Danny would make plans to return to San Francisco, where he runs a women's clinic; however, he changes his mind after sparks fly between him and Tea Delgado.

In the meantime, as all that is playing out, Karen becomes concerned when Larry fails to appear for their yearly assignation.  When she is unable to reach him, she fears the worst and reluctantly decides to return to Llanview.  At Llanview Hospital, Karen overhears a conversation between two other characters and learns about Larry's illness.  Before Karen can go see Larry, however, she runs into Viki, who is, of course, shocked and delighted to see her again after all these years.  In that moment, however, Karen has other things on her mind than reminiscing with her old friend - she's got to see Larry right away!  So, Viki takes Karen to where Larry is staying.  Danny is visiting with his father when the two arrive.  For the first time, Viki learns what Larry meant when he kept saying he had somewhere he needed to be.  With Larry and Karen alone, Danny fills Viki in on Larry and Karen's yearly meetings, revealing that he learned about the two several years ago when he spotted them together in public, but agreed to keep quiet for Karen's sake.

Later, Viki and Karen are back at Llanfair, where the two finally have an opportunity to catch up on old times.  Karen is again very cagey about what she's been up to, saying only that she has a life that works for her.  However, the implication is there that Karen has, indeed, returned to "the life."  Viki asks if she knows about Jenny, who perished years ago in an avalanche.  Karen says she does, and that Brad Vernon has finally settled down as a girls' tennis coach, and that Marco Dane is a private investigator living in Florida, and so forth.  She also expresses her amusement over Dorian Lord once being the mayor of Llanview (and married to a woman).  Viki hopes this means Karen will return to Llanview - if not permanently, then at least on a regular basis, to see Larry.  Karen, however, makes it clear that that can't happen.  But she does tell Viki to take care of Larry for her.  But what if Larry ever needs you or asks for you, Viki asks.  Karen assures her that if Larry ever really needs her, she'll be there.

There also could be a scene between Danny and Karen, where Karen expects Danny to confront her for forcing his father to keep her whereabouts a secret from everyone for so long, but Danny thanks her instead for being there for Larry after he had spent so many years alone.  (And if Aubrey Wentworth were still in town, then there could be a run-in between her and Karen, too, with Karen amused that Kristine Karr would have the audacity to use an identity she had stolen from an elderly man who'd been the victim of one of Kristine's "pigeon drop" scams.  "You know," Karen says, "maybe Marco Dane and I did the right thing after all, giving you to Jenny so she wouldn't think her real daughter had died.  Who knows?  If my sister had raised you instead of Katrina, you might've amounted to something.")

Finally, there would be one last, tender moment for Karen and Larry at the facility.  He asks if they're on for next year; she says yes.  She smiles at him before leaving his room. With his door closed, Karen whispers goodbye, then turns and walks away.

Oh my, what could’ve been. It’s simple, heartfelt, covers all the tracks and honors history. Thank you for sharing that!

OLTL had so much turnover I think it made it difficult to bring back almost anyone, and comparing even just RC’s stint on One Life to that of GH and DAYS, where almost everyone has or had returned and Marlena has been the center of DAYS, unlike Viki on OLTL during his time. And even the returns they did do missed so much-what a failed opportunity to get Tina, Dorian and Viki in one room together. Alex had decent returns, I guess. Pamela was killed. Poor Marty (enough said). Pre-1983 was forgotten altogether. 

37 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think Natalie was created with Tina (and Tina and Viki's relationship) in mind.  Even after she got pregnant by Will, Jessica was Viki's "perfect" daughter - likely because, as @Vee said, Erin Torpey was too intelligent to portray Jessica as a stereotypical damsel in distress.  Jessica wasn't "messy" enough to keep herself and Viki in angst...but Natalie could've been.

I think we were going to learn that Jessica's biological parents were Roxy and Mitch.  I think the revelation would have caused a temporary rift between Jessica and Viki, as Jessica struggled with a sudden loss of identity.  "If I'm not Clint and Viki's daughter," she'd be asking, "then who am I?".

I think Mitch was brought back (even though we saw him die on-screen) so that he could be there as Jessica learned the truth; and I think Jessica would have reached out to him and to Roxy (as Viki looked on in dismay) in an attempt to replace the ties she believed she had lost with the parents who had raised her.  But, once Jessica realized that her biological parents were no damn good, Roxy and Mitch would have been disposed of, and Jessica and Viki would have tearfully reunited.  Jessica still wouldn't be a "real" Buchanan anymore, but Viki (and Clint) would have "adopted" her; and Natalie would always be torn between her sense of devotion toward her adoptive sister and her fears that her biological parents preferred Jessica over their own child.

Some of that actually played out, of course, but I think the key fact in the story - that Alison Perkins switched Jessica and Natalie at birth - was changed early on, because the EP and HW's were more concerned with surprising the audience than with just trusting that they would hang on to see how it all played out.

That’s a great assessment, I really wish they would have delved into the psychology of Viki with Natalie and Jessica-with Natalie being messy and wanting acceptance like Tina or Karen, and Jessica being so similar to Viki but wanting her own identity and not to live in the shadow of her mother, could have led to years of character driven story, instead Jessica and Natalie became damsels in distress. I would have loved to have continued to see Natalie causing hell, intentionally and incidental, for Jessica and Viki for years. Putting Jessica with Antonio and Natalie and John…just., no. Makes no sense. 

Just now, soapfave06 said:

That’s a great assessment, I really wish they would have delved into the psychology of Viki with Natalie and Jessica-with Natalie being messy and wanting acceptance like Tina or Karen, and Jessica being so similar to Viki but wanting her own identity and not to live in the shadow of her mother, could have led to years of character driven story, instead Jessica and Natalie became damsels in distress. I would have loved to have continued to see Natalie causing hell, intentionally and incidental, for Jessica and Viki for years. Putting Jessica with Antonio and Natalie and John…just., no. Makes no sense. 

And in my dream world, once that saga dried up, a gay CJ and a troublemaking Sarah would have returned with Tina and Cord on recurring, preferably both played by half Mexican/half white actors, to honor Cords roots. 

43 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think Erin and Melissa had much more interesting chemistry than Bree Williamson and Melissa. It was very difficult for anyone to write Erin's Jessica as just a damsel in distress, or just an idiot ingenue as the recast became; like Kimberly McCullough on GH, Erin radiated more intelligence than that. So what you had onscreen with those two was Melissa as the fire and Erin as a calm, mature presence. I thought it was a great contrast. Of course once Bree arrived it became much more bland.

Erin did not hide her distaste for her storylines in 2001-2002. IIRC she was vocally hurt by the early implication that Jessica was not Viki and Clint's daughter but some random castoff, and I think Erika has said the story was hard for her. (I wasn't upset by the story at the time because I assumed it would end up reversed in some way; I don't think GT or anyone else had ever intended to not resolve it eventually as Jess being Viki's daughter after all, but they could've let ET know and the Mitch vs. Clint paternity angle stood for way longer than it should have.) She also was very, very vocal even in press and online interviews about hating the pairing with Seth Anderson. She talks in blunt terms about Brandon Routh's attitude without naming him in the OLTL oral history, and made it clear at the time of the storyline in many interviews that she didn't like Jessica staying with the con man who had slept with her 'sister' and stolen her life. Jessica and Seth's stuff was kind of a B or C-story in 2002 as Natalie became popular and then became the central heroine. I loved MA and Natalie so I adjusted, but Jessica was handled poorly. It didn't have to happen and I wish Erin had stayed.

Of course, it didn't last: You cut to 2003 with the insane Malone II run which I could talk about for years, and suddenly Bree Wiliamson's Jessica has arrived as the ultimate clueless soap damsel Erin's never was, is dominating airtime, has an A-story with her character's teen sweetheart's older brother who has known Jess since she was like 13, and meanwhile Natalie and Cristian, the A-story leads of the show in '02, could now barely buy airtime all year along until David Fumero leaves. Things can change on a dime.

Well, by the time Kelley Missal got there Eddie could act (at least IMO). After years of being not very good, seemingly overnight in late '08 or early '09 he suddenly began seriously stepping up as part of the story with Matthew being paralyzed, Bo and Nora reuniting, etc. And from then on I feel he became the strongest actor in that age range on the show. (Kelley is also very good, but in a role that on ABC basically amounted to Starr Jr. she didn't get half a chance to show what she was really capable of until the Hulu revival, where she crushed it and dominated. I know @DRW50 had a lot of opinions on that back in the day.) 

I think Eddie and Kelley were good young talent, and Matthew and Dani were fine characters. (Jason Tam as Markko and Brittany Underwood as Langston were also good, but they were in Frank's designated roles of 'ethnic sidekicks for Starr and Cole'.) I think Destiny has a character had potential but Shenell Edmonds was never much of an actress; her charm and rapport with Eddie put her over with the audience. But the thing is that they clearly backed off Matthew/Danielle in the first place because someone at the show (allegedly, FV but possibly Frons as well above the show) decided Eddie was not hot enough. So they hired the Fords, all overgrown hardbodies, let them dominate the canvas, let one of them squire Dani around and Matthew was relegated to mostly C-story with Destiny or the backburner from then on for as long as the show remained on the network. The Matthew/Dani thread - and the complicated web of romance with them and Matthew/Destiny, and those three characters' childhood friendship and romantic connections - was not properly picked up on again until the Hulu revival, and frankly that triangle could've driven the show as a central axis for years to come, still could today. C'est la vie.

I’m not sure if Erin Torpey would have stayed anyway, but another example of decimating the core, that’s a nice balance and a great example (Natalie/Jessica to Karen/Jenny) I also like the contrast of Viki/Tina with the red head and the blond sister. I can’t recall how GT wrote heroines in general across the soaps. 
 

I so loved the Hulu revival, I thought the casting for Matthew for excellent and Kelley SHINED as Dani and her relationship with Tea, I just loved it, and yes I thought Matthew/Destiny/Danielle could have driven story for a long while and it would have been worthwhile with Matthew from a core family and Destiny and Danielle as diverse leads.  
 

I think I gave up on the show around Spring 2010 after the lesbian wedding fiasco and ousting many diverse characters, on top of the utter waste of Tika Sumpter as Layla, I was tired. 
 

I never could get into Langston and Markko after the initial story but they didn’t try much, I would have liked to have seen Starr keep her scheming side as a troublemaker, I think that botched that foursome for me the most. 

29 minutes ago, Khan said:

Plus, they were fighting over John McBain, which was just about the biggest WTF ever, lol.

Ugh, I’ll never be able to forget that

1 hour ago, Vee said:

The way I recall it, fans were very happy to see the back of JFP. Gary Tomlin was welcomed, and a lot of his early changes made people happy. The thing about Gary is that he also loved grand pronouncements to the soap magazines. Literally any actor who prepared to leave the show he would gush was 'irreplaceable.' Jason-Shane Scott leaves as Will: Irreplaceable! Erika Page leaves as Roseanne: Irreplaceable! I didn't hate Erika Page or anything but it was all a bit much. Still, he clearly had genuine affection for the show and the canvas, he brought back things we cared for, brought back fan favorite characters like Alex and David Vickers, lightened it up and created a new spirit of optimism and hope for the show after several miserable and very long years. (Gary was also responsible for hiring Eddie Alderson as Matthew, owing to the fact that the kid hung out BTS with his sister and the adult actors adored him. The fact that Eddie did not learn to act for another seven years and that his Matthew gradually began to resemble Ralph Wiggum from The Simpsons in the meantime was immaterial, but hey, it all worked out in the end.) AFAIK, there was a real sense of happiness BTS again. And the Viki/Jessica/Natalie saga with Allison Perkins and Mitch was a huge engine for story, and gave us Roxy.

But Gary was never much for taste. The vile Baby Jack story with Todd and Blair was played for laughs, with a Mariachi band and actual cartoons onscreen. The extended storyline in which Mark Derwin impersonates a mentally challenged man would not fly today! The return of Gabrielle was lampooned because of Fiona Hutchison's very campy performance, which (allegedly) led to BTS pressure from certain parties to end the storyline with her, Asa and Max ASAP. (I loved her performance, but I was in the minority.) And the Natalie story was controversial with the audience and BTS with Erin Torpey, where I think it ultimately helped push her to leave the show due to how she felt Jessica had been marginalized. (She was.) The Mitch rape retcon with Viki was unnecessary. The Keri Reynolds/Antonio saga sucked. The Todd/Tea island adventure, don't get me started. The Colin/Troy switcheroo, with Ty Treadway rehired with great fanfare to play Colin's identical twin so Gary could eagerly tout responding to fan demand to see HBS and TT paired for real, flopped and led to the horrendous "Joanna" plotline - but it also gave us the scorching Troy/Lindsay affair in Gary's final months. The focus on Jen Rappaport sucked, until in his second year Gary realized the fan rooting interest and made her the villain opposite Natalie.

So it was a very, very mixed bag. There were fun stories and new characters and then very bad ones, and the audience rebelled. The show had gone from grim and miserable to OTT camp and silliness. But Gary did give us some new characters, couples and stories we cared for (Natalie and Cristian/Natalie, Roxy, Bo/Gabrielle). I think Gary's heart was in the right place, but the taste and a lot of the writing went to Saturday morning cartoon levels. Still, he reignited the show's heart and he gave us Live Week. Which we should've done again, every year.

Anyway, mine is just one opinion. I'm sure many can weigh in.

Great review, I appreciate your feedback as it was a complete turnaround after being critically acclaimed, critically boring and then critically depressing. 
 

Speaking of the Natalie/Jessica switcheroo, I was reviewing old SOD postings on twitter and it appears OLTL was a steady #2 in the late summer/early fall of 1986, so I would presume this to be the Mitch climax, Dorian on trial for his murder and baby Jessica being kidnapped, I reckon it was a good idea to revisit that but I had not realized Jessica ended up marginalized, I would love to see the initial ET Jessica and Natalie feud. 
 

Also, very funny and accurate comments on Matthew, OLTL really tried with the teen scene and despite being a teen at the time, I just…couldn’t with any of those actors, save for Kelley Missal as Dani. 

29 minutes ago, Vee said:

IIRC, JFP had ratings up at that time because she went for the jugular early and often. Much of the late '90s for OLTL were sleepy doldrums, a hangover from the glory years under Gottlieb/Susan Bedsow Horgan and Malone/Griffith, which were built on a succession of massive umbrella storylines and heady supercouples. Several subsequent revolving-door regimes under Laiman, Labine, etc. mostly coasted on the fumes of that glory and those couples, some bad regimes, some so-so. Labine was just finishing out her network contract at ABC after her GH spinoff was turned down and was clearly not fully invested in being there. There were a few good stories, ideas, couples, etc. but mostly it was a fallow period. It always felt like a lazy fall season to me.

JFP changed that. She came in hot and suddenly huge things were happening. As @Khan IIRC and I have both discussed, the Georgie Phillips scandal with Bo, Nora, a video-manipulated 'sex tape' (an early precursor to CGI and AI fakes today) and her subsequent murder gripped a lot of people - me included. All of a sudden the teenaged me opened up a soap magazine and saw the actors playing Bo and Nora, my favorite couple, touting a hot new storyline for them after they'd spent the last couple years cuddling and snoozing in the background. RSW and HBS both openly cheered on the story, saying they'd spent the last couple seasons 'in the freezer'. Then Jessica loses her virginity in what I thought then and now was a very honest, realistic way - drunk, to the wrong guy, who promptly knocks the perfect daughter up. Then Bo and Nora are broken apart. Cassie goes insane. Jessica loses her baby, to Dorian. It was urgent action and drama. It brought me back, I think it brought a lot of people back.

But what many of us didn't know about JFP initially, but learned quickly, it that it was empty calories. The flash faded and you began to get an idea of what you were really looking at. The day to day writing suffered terribly, got very stupid. The murder story with Rachel was crass, histrionic and misogynistic, the first of many. And while JFP had used key popular characters to bolster ratings and push her narratives, Bo and Nora together were not her priority. Dorian was not her priority. Sam Rappaport (played by her lover Kale Browne) was her priority; Tim Gibbs as Kevin was her priority; Sam's son Will (the wrong man for Jessica) was her priority; Ben Davidson was her priority.

I remember being glued to the TV afterschool everyday for my tape of OLTL in the February sweeps of 2000. Nora had finally discovered that Lindsay Rappaport had altered Bo's fertility tests, which had driven her to go to bed with Sam in order to provide a grieving, suicidal Bo with a child. This choice ultimately destroyed their marriage. (And it was a storyline HBS, who initially cheered on JFP's arrival, detested - she tried to go to the head of the network to get killed off, for Nora to die in childbirth.) Nora manages to get past Sam - who tries to physically bar her from leaving her home, something I never forgot or forgave - and rushes to the church to bust up Bo and Lindsay's wedding, while (IIRC) Jessica rushes to stop Cristian from marrying Roseanne Delgado. I was sure things were finally going to be put right for these characters, that Bo and Nora, as a beloved supercouple, would get it together and Lindsay and to a lesser degree Sam would see justice.

But that didn't happen. Bo and a lot of other people blamed Nora. Sam remained a central sympathetic player in the show's eyes (multiple DNA tests were even done in those years to try to force the audience to accept that little Matthew was in fact Sam's son, something that was only undone once JFP was gone). The focus of the show remained on the Rappaport family, populated largely by actors JFP either had long favored on other shows or who she herself had discovered, and on the veteran favorite characters (Bo, Nora, Viki, Jessica, etc.) who JFP could carefully attach to them in frontburner romances. And Bo and Nora stayed broken up for almost another decade.

JFP was very clever. She knew the way to make her characters and performers indispensable (for a time, anyway) was to link them deeply to popular characters, and to play the longtime characters heavy in those major stories. She got one thing right: She played Bo, Nora, Viki, etc. everyday. But the stories often sucked, the characters were a mess, and it took years to recover from what she did. She eviscerated the show.

That said, yes - the ratings went up.

Thanks for sharing, when I was reviewing the ratings, I did see a huge boost for February 2000, so that makes sense and a huge missed opportunity to not reset the show back to the proper couplings after all that hell. 
 

I did quite enjoy Nora and Bo reuniting in 2009 when I was watching but there wasn’t much story for either even with them apart. 
 

I appreciate your detailed recap, if you don’t mind, how did that era contrast in fan response to the more cartoonish Tomlin era? 

16 minutes ago, Vee said:

Yes. People were furious about LB's firing as well as Robin going. The Tim Gibbs Kevin recast was wildly unpopular both with the audience and BTS, but he was a JFP favorite and was played everyday. Once Jill left OLTL, Gibbs' Kevin didn't even get an onscreen exit; that was how little the network and show knew fans regarded him.

The miscarriage storyline was well-performed and had some decent drama at various points, but all of it was designed to marginalize Dorian as a character. And it did that. I don't even remember the nonsense with Hugo Monroe, that entire mob storyline and family was completely forgettable months after it happened. This is the first time I've thought of the Monroes in years.

I wasn’t watching them but had read about Hugo before, never realizing Dorian teamed up with a killer and helped him kidnap Viki 

In just a few short months Dorian did that and caused Jessica to miscarry 

I wonder how much stronger the ratings could have been if they avoided this nonsense 

On 5/19/2023 at 7:32 PM, Vee said:

And ironically I think (based on Labine's own interviews) that it was originally possibly intended as a triangle for Dorian and Viki. Mel and Viki's connection was teased early on and Labine has said, IIRC, that the Mel/Dorian pairing came about in part because one other party was not interested in being in a love triangle. That would have to be Erika Slezak, and I assume despite her personal fondness for Robin that she just didn't see the appeal in a love triangle opposite Dorian.

Labine also teased a reconnection with Viki and Clint (and gave us maybe Clint Ritchie's last great scenes on the show when Clint finally confessed his resentments about the dissolution of their marriage), but my understanding is that also didn't happen because of CR's drinking and possibly Erika not wanting to deal with that again.

I very much enjoy reading your thoughts on OLTL! 

I was already digging into the JFP era but the comment of Strasser got me looking into Dorian more, so it does seem obvious the character assassination from a recap angle but did any of the plots play well onscreen?

Dorian helping Hugo kidnap Viki, only to join her and ending her quest for revenge for Mel 

Dorian mowing Jessica down and causing the miscarriage 

Did RS play these in a way that it didn’t decimate Dorian or did it greatly hurt? 
 

Was the sidelining of Dorian and Cassie and recast of Kevin hurtful to the overall show at the time? 

On 5/11/2023 at 7:21 PM, Broderick said:

Jazz was interesting, but honestly Jon St. Elwood was more of a "character actor" than a lead.  Phil Morris, though, was a leading man whose time on the show seemed short-circuited, due to the nature of his storyline (the crime syndicate).  And I've always believed dropping Stephanie E. Williams to recurring was one of the biggest mistakes Bill Bell ever made.  Obviously an attractive young lady with her smile and her talent was going to snapped-up by another show; she wasn't gonna wait around indefinitely.

I *suspect* Bill Bell's intention was to give Stephanie a little bit of a rest and then bring her back as the "offset" to Victoria Rowell's Drucilla character.  He CLEARLY intended to contrast Dru with an upper middle-class female rival, which ultimately turned out to be Olivia Winters.  But in his early planning, I'll bet you anything her rival was going to be Amy Lewis.  (You'll recall that Stephanie was brought back to the show following a few months off, then she was snapped-up as Simone on General Hospital, just before Victoria Rowell's debut.)        

Can anyone send me in a direction for some of Stephanie Williams best work? She just didn’t make an impression on me as Amy, Sheila on OLTL or Simone on GH, but I haven’t seen much. 

I love the topic of the strange Bell stories, I’m not sure if these were weird but definitely out of the norm compared to later years and I would love to see them:

The Cult Story

The Psycho Redux with Edward

Katherine going over the cruise and ending up with Felipe on the island

I think there was also the plot with Chris and Peggy discovering some white slavery ring and being kidnapped? 

I absolutely fell in love with Dynasty over the first two seasons but it was tired to me by the third season. It felt like a classic Hollywood movie with glamour and family drama amped up quite a bit. I haven’t watched in a while to give better detail but I was glued to my screen and it seemed to become plot driven overnight. 

OLTL 1987: Tina was shown alive after her tumble over the falls when the Palupe (?) drive discovered her at the base of the Iguazu Falls, and her return with baby Al as CJ was great soap. 

13 hours ago, Errol said:

This era wasn't JFP. She didn't start until 1997. Because OLTL was doing so well, particularly in those demos, as you said, she got the gig at GH.

You’re right! I was looking at too many years and confusing myself lol 

It looked like the only time OLTL did well in the HH under JFP was the Nora/Bo/Lindsay climax and none of the other increases lasted, whereas other soaps would still hit big strides for plot climaxes in the late 90s. 

On 7/21/2020 at 4:15 PM, Manny said:

Thanks to @kalbir for pointing out this thread to me. I couldn't find it. Thanks to everyone who shared their ratings. 

As I mentioned in another thread, I have some ratings which I have collected all across the internet over the many years. Unfortunately I do not have nice paper clippings like some of you, because all the ratings I find, I input in an excel file, so I wouldn't be able to tell you for most of them what my sources are, but I hope that's not the problem.

 

So I have some partial ratings from 1992, so I can start from there:
 

Week of August 10 1992 (On AW, Lucas died; Shane starts to walk without the crutches on DAYS and Karen invites Jagger for dinner on GH). 

1. Y&R 8,7
2. AMC 6,6
3. ATWT 5,8
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,3
6. GH 5,2
7. OLTL 5,1
8. DAYS 5,0
9. AW 3,7
10. SB 3,1
11. LOV 2,4

Week of August 17 1992 (Sawyer is arrested for Frank's murder on SB, A.J. and Nikki make love on GH and Clay told a devastated Dinah Lee that he cannot marry her on LOV)

1. Y/R 8,6
2. AMC 6,8
3. ATWT 5,8
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,3
6. GH 5,2
7. DAYS 5,1
8. OLTL 5,0
9. AW 3,8
10. SB 3,3
11. LOV 2,5

 

Week of August 24 1992 (Ava accepts Leo's proposal on LOV, Jack and Jenn enjoy time in New York on DAYS and Lionel and Gina make love for the first time on SB).

1. Y&R 8,4
2. AMC 7,0
3. ATWT 5,9
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,6
6. GH/OLTL 5,2
7. DAYS 4,9
8. AW 3,7
9. SB 3,1
10. LOV 2,6

 

Week of August 31 1992 (Bill and Holly search a burial tomb in an attempt to find a statue on GH, andAlly seems to have been possessed by evils spirits on LOV)

1. Y&R 7,9
2. AMC 6,4
3. ATWT 5,4
4. GL 5,3
5. B&B 5,2
6. OLTL 5,0
7. GH 4,9
8. DAYS 4,6
9. AW 3,3
10. SB 2,6
11. LOV 2,5

Week of September 21 1992 (Jack and Nikki discuss having a child on Y&R, Kevin tricked LeeAnn to get Duke on OLTL, while on AW Paulina and Jake reconciled)

1. Y&R 8,1
2. AMC 6,6
3. ATWT/B&B 5,8
4. GL 5,4
5. GH 5,0
6. OLTL 4,8
7. DAYS 4,5
8. AW 3,2
9. SB 2,6
10. LOV 2,5

This would have been the Billy Douglas climax for OLTL? I wasn’t expecting a massive ratings increase for a story climax but almost seems the ratings hurt from it. 
 

Also seems the pit story didn’t do much for DAYS

Just now, soapfave06 said:

On 7/21/2020 at 4:15 PM, Manny said:

Thanks to @kalbir for pointing out this thread to me. I couldn't find it. Thanks to everyone who shared their ratings. 

As I mentioned in another thread, I have some ratings which I have collected all across the internet over the many years. Unfortunately I do not have nice paper clippings like some of you, because all the ratings I find, I input in an excel file, so I wouldn't be able to tell you for most of them what my sources are, but I hope that's not the problem.

 

So I have some partial ratings from 1992, so I can start from there:
 

Week of August 10 1992 (On AW, Lucas died; Shane starts to walk without the crutches on DAYS and Karen invites Jagger for dinner on GH). 

1. Y&R 8,7
2. AMC 6,6
3. ATWT 5,8
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,3
6. GH 5,2
7. OLTL 5,1
8. DAYS 5,0
9. AW 3,7
10. SB 3,1
11. LOV 2,4

Week of August 17 1992 (Sawyer is arrested for Frank's murder on SB, A.J. and Nikki make love on GH and Clay told a devastated Dinah Lee that he cannot marry her on LOV)

1. Y/R 8,6
2. AMC 6,8
3. ATWT 5,8
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,3
6. GH 5,2
7. DAYS 5,1
8. OLTL 5,0
9. AW 3,8
10. SB 3,3
11. LOV 2,5

 

Week of August 24 1992 (Ava accepts Leo's proposal on LOV, Jack and Jenn enjoy time in New York on DAYS and Lionel and Gina make love for the first time on SB).

1. Y&R 8,4
2. AMC 7,0
3. ATWT 5,9
4. B&B 5,7
5. GL 5,6
6. GH/OLTL 5,2
7. DAYS 4,9
8. AW 3,7
9. SB 3,1
10. LOV 2,6

 

Week of August 31 1992 (Bill and Holly search a burial tomb in an attempt to find a statue on GH, andAlly seems to have been possessed by evils spirits on LOV)

1. Y&R 7,9
2. AMC 6,4
3. ATWT 5,4
4. GL 5,3
5. B&B 5,2
6. OLTL 5,0
7. GH 4,9
8. DAYS 4,6
9. AW 3,3
10. SB 2,6
11. LOV 2,5

Week of September 21 1992 (Jack and Nikki discuss having a child on Y&R, Kevin tricked LeeAnn to get Duke on OLTL, while on AW Paulina and Jake reconciled)

1. Y&R 8,1
2. AMC 6,6
3. ATWT/B&B 5,8
4. GL 5,4
5. GH 5,0
6. OLTL 4,8
7. DAYS 4,5
8. AW 3,2
9. SB 2,6
10. LOV 2,5

 

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2 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

 

This would have been the Billy Douglas climax for OLTL? I wasn’t expecting a massive ratings increase for a story climax but almost seems the ratings hurt from its tale.

OLTL definitely seems to be the soap that could, they didn’t score well in the HHs but we were surprisingly high in the demos and JFP seemed to do more harm than good. 
 

Also seems the pit story didn’t do much for DAYS

I’m very surprised at how quick they took a plot driven turn as the year began. 

Mia was amazing as Blair, rather she would have returned or not, they easily could have created a new character for Kassie. I don’t care to watch 96-early 2000s but was Kelly really necessary? Maybe that’s unpopular

34 minutes ago, Vee said:

I really love Valarie Pettiford's Sheila, especially in the increasing amount of '92-'93 material that has surfaced in recent years. I barely remember her from when I was a kid but she's great, and the initial story with Hank/Sheila/Troy Nichols (which they apparently hired a Black writer for - I know, give 'em a medal, but in those years it was a considerable move), while definitely hamfisted at times in its broad approach to the men and their differing personalities, does not feel like a C-story in the '92 material. (I also really love the scene from summer '92 which is hopefully still on YT, where Rachel and Sheila discuss colorism and actually bring up Carla Hall.)

I adored Ellen Bethea. I know she left apparently to go back to the stage. And I'll always love Kassie but I've said it before and I'll say it again: The strong focus on Mia Korf's Blair in the '92 eps is still way ahead of its time. There have been no AAPI leads on daytime (if any leads at all) with that level of frontburner power since - period.

Oh, I love that scene between Rachel and Sheila. I hate they moved away from Kevin and Rachel, but they could have created a more interesting love interest than Ben. Yawn. 

By the way, was there any dropped threads or opportunities the show missed post-DID? It just got so aimless it seems come ‘96, Viki had nothing to do, Carlo came back, Luna was dead, etc. Maybe David Vickers could have been a full fledge villain? Viki and Clint back together? 

Watching August 1994:

It’s amazing how often the show is overhauled, almost distracts me from watching any era (The Late 80s erased history and failed to build secondary characters, the early 90s was a total reboot, the late 90s lost everything the early 90s gave (except maybe Nora, Blair, Todd?) until the early 2000s folks stayed on through the end, finally stabilizing the community) 

From that perspective, if Gabrielle, Megan or Sarah were still on it would go a long way outside of Max and Cord of keeping that late-80s unit alive, of course I wish AE had stayed as Tina, my all time fave 

Viki is so hardened IMO from her late-80s tone, which I preferred 

The drama with Todd being released from prison is pretty good, the show must have been very consistent in the drama going form Dorians murder trial back to the Todd terror. 
 

I absolutely adore EB’s Rachel and she feels so sidelined and soon to be gone, and unfortunately VP’s Sheila is already recast. 
 

The scenes of Blair confessing to Cassie that she ran Luna down were great, I will say Blair/Cassie/Marty/Nora are phenomenal. And Cassie getting onto Dorian for stealing Marty’s mansion is great too! 

All I remember of CC Marty is her clashing with Todd and Blair and an aged Cole going to school with Starr, is that what SH turned down? That couldn’t be worse than the rapemance.

I just moved and can’t wait to get the WiFi hooked up, I’ve watched some scenes on Twitter and this is the most excited I’ve been to see GH since maybe early 2019. 

I wasn’t sure if there was a thread on this done already but was curious to about stories that were either not approved by the network or the show changed course on:

In 1987, Tina was supposed to go to Hell the same time Viki went to Heaven (I guess after going over the falls, read this in a SOW issue from 1997) - this would have been an interesting contrast but she didn’t have the history Viki had IMO 

Roxy was supposed to be Rex’s father and trans 

RC proposed a time jump on OLTL (and GH, before getting approval on DAYS, glad it didn’t work out)

RC had a Plan A and Plan B if RH didn’t return as Todd for Tales of Two Todd’s, so I’m curious what that was

Tina was supposed to be arrested at her finale wedding to Cord for Victors murder but they scrapped it for their happy ending instead 

Vimal was supposed to stay in prison but was released when Vimal/Rama took off (that may be unpopular but I loved them!)

Very interesting stuff in 1969, awesome to see Scotty and Lee meeting and I wonder what the tone of the Tracey/Jeff stuff was, that story with the blind patient seems interesting in contrast to that of Carla on OLTL in the same year.