DRW50

He's brought in a ton of new characters, although most of them are working out, at least so far. There's a big shift away from many of the characters who had story with Anita Turner. For now the ratings are stable, I'm not sure if gains were expected, or they just didn't want to see more losses.

Most of his time at Corrie wasn't exactly known for comedy. There were very very dramatic, hard-hitting storylines. But if this means the level of comedy will go above "Look at how fat Heather is," yay.

I think it depends on the handling. The first 3-4 years were quite dark and the ratings were great. They hit a rough patch when they started to become more lighthearted. I think the problem with darkness now is it does not feel organic, it's just there for the sake of it.

That's always been a part of EE. Even now they do dark stories, they just end up skirting the surface, which I think leaves an empty feeling. If they're going to do them I think they should get the most possible mileage out of them. It doesn't have to be like what Kirkwood did at Hollyoaks, with the long, depressing Niall storyline, or the Osborne debt story, but there's a way to make people feel moved, instead of just hoping they'll forget.

That's a good point. Eastenders is gritty in the sense that characters are often miserable but it's more where you can see it's just for drama. Everything is very safe, very cozy. The Jackson kids always look like stage actors who are told to pout on cue -- you'd never believe they're struggling for money, or from lack of a father. You know the Mitchells will never seriously be affected by their problems, you know Stacey will come in and out of sanity depending on the plot. The bad characters tend to be more sleek now, like an Archie, or even an Owen or a Lucas. The days of characters like Donna, slowly sinking into the depths, you wouldn't have that now, because of complaints. You'd certainly NEVER have a story like they had on Hollyoaks with Jack Osborne being so overcome by debt that he faked his death, ending in him being sent to prison. That was unremittent darkness and it destroyed the character. I do think there is more room for some darkness. The way it is now, the show is so obvious in wanting it both ways. Bury Max alive? That's OK, just send him away so we can't see his devastating psychological damage. Kill off Ronnie's daughter? That's OK, edit out any talk of her suicidal thoughts and just focus on her being a crazy baby-obsessed lady. Probably the one who reminds me most of the old days of EE is Jean Slater. That ugly rant she threw at Charlie after he told her he was sick of hearing about her and Stacey was magnificent. The change will be a big adjustment and I'm not sure if Kirkwood's up to it but I think a lot of the stuff he did at Hollyoaks in terms of montages and music was already part of Hollyoaks before he arrived.

I don't think he will have as much power at EE as he did at Hollyoaks. As Sylph has said, they need to get rid of this Collins person. Enough of these "shocking" stories. Hollyoaks also had a few too many of those, but generally they worked a little better. I wonder if Syed/Christian will still be going on by the time he gets there.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that Hollyoaks had those montages before he arrived. The show is a half-hour, edgy show. That was a way to get viewers hooked early and want to see what happened next. Obviously that won't work on Eastenders. Frankly the teens on EE are in need of help. When they get major stories the limitations show. Most of them are wooden and dull, and Jay, who does have some personality, is written like a dirty old man. Abi does seem to be getting better, and Lucy has her moments.

I agree about the Connors, especially Michelle. She is supposed to be the new Bet Lynch, but she isn't anywhere near as complex, or vulnerable, or entertaining.

danni, I'd heard about the reason for the lack of intimacy, but I think it hurts the story, especially because they didn't show us Syed and Christian falling in love. If they had paced it more slowly then I wouldn't mind the lack of intimacy. Kirkwood? Really? He loves gay characters but he may not get to do that on EE. He also loves darkness, and loud women, so that will be a good fit for EE. He was a mixed bad at Hollyoaks, but his first two years were solid.

The thing with a gay relationship is as long as you give a little something, and the actors have chemistry, then they will get a lot of fans, at least at first. So the show may not care. If they were interested in keeping gay fans then they wouldn't have episodes where three straight couples kiss and pull clothing off, and the gay couple don't. I can't see Syed/Christian as a couple, there really aren't any stories for them beyond disapproval from Zainab and Tamwar, so either they will break up and spend all their time moping and being supporting characters, Syed will be bi (which is probably what he should have been all along), or Syed will be written out. I don't know if the show worries too much about fanbases; they've kept Stacey/Bradley apart, mostly, for about two years now. Poor Charlie Clements, I think he's a better actor than they give him credit for. I think lack of strong couples hurts the show -- a strong couple is what got EE put on the map in the first place (Angie/Den). I think that's why viewers respond to Zainab and Masood. Right now I'm interested in the dueling psycho story with Owen and Lucas. I hope they will keep Owen around long term, and not make him too psycho. I also wish Chelsea would stop yelling her lines.

Corrie in particular has been heavily criticized in the past few years. I don't see how moving characters into heavy story, then having them disappear, is an ensemble. It's a way to save money, as others have said. EE at its best was a character-driven show. Now, like most soaps, it's generally plot, and shock value, with some character moments. Some works, obviously enough to get ratings up. Syed/Christian is the tamest "illicit" love affair I've ever seen. They barely show each other any affection at all. Syed spends most of his time pouting and looking like he's about to cry. Beyond the press hype (gay Muslim! controversy!) there's nothing there. Syed doesn't fit into most of the show at all, even his family -- I won't be surprised if he's gone when this story is done. Ben, the article you posted about EE's downfall was a a great read. Berridge doesn't sound that bad. I do think killing Kathy off was a major mistake, and since Santer has gone on about never bringing back someone who is dead, I doubt he will bring her back. It's too bad that are so rigid after bringing Den back. The problem with Den's return was writing issues and Grantham's personal baggage, moreso than Den himself. In better worlds, Den's return could have finally freed the show once and for all from the Mitchell chokehold.

I've seen a bit. I think Rachel and her poor schlub husband Russ were at a wedding...Lenore and Walter? And Steve had recently arrived, and Rachel and Alice were both falling in love with him. I wish more of that were out there. I'd love to see Rue Machlanan as the crazy nanny who slowly poisoned Pat. I remember Rue said she got nothing but positive response from fans, including one letter which said, "You aren't doing this right. Here's how I did it!"

I just wish more of that era were available. I would especially love to see some of the era with Strasser's Rachel. And Lahoma. And John Randolph's daughter.

I agree with you about the women, and the intelligence of the show. There's such a crispness and confidence in everything they do. And this was four or five years after they moved to ABC, when a lot of soap producers might have given up. It just shows you what a great writer Henry Slesar was. I wish more of the CBS era were available.

Yes, he was very sexy, the whole goofy hot guy thing is always nice. I read that they planned to kill him off in that story but changed their minds. He was let go near the end of the show's run when they had to free up budget. Supposedly if the show had stayed on they would have brought him back. It's too bad the actor hasn't worked a lot since. The EON page says Emily was Molly's "surrogate" daughter. This is a transcript of the day Molly confesses all to Raven. http://lavender.fortunecity.com//casino/403/t181.html More on Molly's motivations: http://lavender.fortunecity.com//casino/403/female.html#molly Raven's such a fascinating character, especially with men. Around the time of the murder she has a flirtatious relationship with married Draper (I think she gave him a big kiss on the lips when she walked into his house one time), she still knows how to get to her dull ex, Logan, she had a thing with Elliot Dorn, and then she had a no-strings sexual relationship with Derek Mallory. Don't you love a show where the biggest vixen/conniver in town can have a f*ck buddy relationship with the chief of police? I guess stuff like that is why they replaced poor Bill Marceau. And yet even with all those men you never feel like she's being degraded, you don't see any misogyny in the writing.

Weren't people unhappy with the writing for his last return? Santer doesn't do returns very well, so Grant may be better off gone. I love Carol but I'm concerned about how she will come across. Hopefully since the only one they got right is Bianca and Ricky, that means Carol will be the same.

It was Molly. The climax to the story involves her shooting Raven and planning to hang April. She hadn't actually shot Raven, so Raven startled her when she confronted Molly, and Molly fell down the basement steps. I really liked that Cliff Nelson character. I miss that type of character on soaps. I laughed when he solved a part of the mystery because he took a porn magazine that Dorn had on his desk.

Yes, they do, with the exception of Wendy Richard. I still can't believe that exit. Barbara left the show for a few years because of health problems so I'm not that surprised she's leaving. I just wonder what will replace her. The Mitchell family is depleted. Roxy is dead weight, Phil is dead weight, so is Billy. They've done a lot of damage to Ronnie. jfung79, I wouldn't really disagree with you about 90s Eastenders. While I loved many of the characters and I do think they were much better at pacing stories and having good conclusions, they certainly did go for shocks, and they were also much too focused on Grant and Phil. Since the people who ran EE in 2003-2006 did huge damage to the show (the worst mistake was killing off Kathy), I know they have had to do repair work, but the show seems somewhat hollow now. It can be entertaining, but the character integration, followthrough, and the spirit isn't there. From all the stupidity of the Nick/Dotty story, to Danielle's death and Ronnie becoming a baby-obsessed nutter, to the limp Syed/Christian story where nearly all the relationship between them takes place offcamera, to Tanya burying Max alive, Lauren running him over...they're good at these "big" moments, but I think the show doesn't have the heart, or the strong characterization, or the grit it had in the 80s. But certainly, the show has come a long way in the past few years, in terms of viewer support. I still prefer Emmerdale though.

I had forgotten about that. I guess there was the Lorelei book too.

I wonder if they'll have any teens run anyone over or impregnate Heather. Barbara is one of a kind and has had many standout moments as Peggy. I will probably miss her relationship with Pat most of all. I hope they take the opportunity to write out the Mitchells. With the possible exception of Ronnie I think they've all had their day.

Emmerdale has been better than Eastenders this year, although neither of them are what they could be. Corrie, Hollyoaks, they've had a lot of problems. I think EE's biggest problem is they don't like to tell stories. It's just shock value, then dead spaces, then more shock value, and gimmicks. Zainab Masood is pregnant. There is some conflict because her son Syed made her think her husband Masood was cheating on her with Ian Beale's wife Jane. The family is dealing with having "Bad Boy" scrawled on their front door. This is blackmail, as someone saw Syed and Jane Beale's brother Christian kissing (offcamera, naturally). Sam Mitchell returned to town and is facing charges due to her part in covering up Den Watts's murder. She's engaged to Ricky and is living with him in Bianca's house, but she's bored and has been sleeping with Jack Branning. Jack's ex Ronnie, still a mess because of the death of her daughter Danielle, tracked down her boyfriend from her teen years, Joel. He left his wife and kids to move into the Vic with her, but she dumped him when she learned he was sterile, as she wants a child. The Fox family is struggling because Lucas's estranged wife Trina was killed. Lucas let her die, although he didn't actually kill her (she fell on a rake). Lucas's girlfriend Denise Fox was briefly charged but then the death was ruled an accident. Meanwhile, Denise's daughter Libby is happy that her father Owen, an alcoholic who once tried to kill her, was released from jail. He is trying to reform, and Libby is giving him a chance. Libby is also engaged to her boyfriend, Darren, and has no idea that he recently had a baby with Heather. Shirley is selling drugs to try to get enough money to take care of Heather and the baby. Janine is working with Archie Mitchell to get the pub from the Mitchells. Stacey Slater was recently sectioned because she stopped taking her meds and had a complete meltdown in the Vic.

I think it's still his job. I know some people were saying he comes up with the shock value stuff.

Diedrick Santer has been the main producer since early 2007. They have various writers. Their most respected is Simon Ashdown, who I believe wrote the hugely popular Zoe/Kat, "Because I'm your muvva (mother)!" episode years ago.

Eatenders isn't very real now. They have some hard looking actors, but they don't operate under the grittiness, the sense of things building and building, that they did for the 80s and most of the 90s. Now it's usually just glum characters involved in somewhat ridiculous stories that are never followed up. Like Tanya burying her husband alive. Or his daughter running him over. One of the more recent, which managed to combine both the show's need for shock value and their false mining of history, involved comic relief character Heather (whom they ask us to alternately laugh at and pity for being a self-loathing, overweight weeper) having a baby. We didn't know who the father was, and in a ripoff of the reveal of Den Watts being the father of teenage Michelle Fowler's unborn child, they had various male characters all getting a text and leaving to parts unknown. Then finally, the character who showed up was Darren Miller, who is barely 18, and looks even younger. It added a very weird tone to a story which could have been somewhat moving, and seemed to be done just to get press. Anyway, in better news, Carol Jackson is returning to visit her daughter Bianca. Her kids Sonia and Robbie are also returning. The Jacksons did a lot to keep Eastenders going in the 90s. I can't wait to see Carol again. She's one of a kind. Those of you who don't remember her, but might watch Doctor Who, may remember her as a passenger in last year's plane terror episode "Midnight".

I wish they wrote original books, like they did in the UK for various shows. I know they wrote one for Robin's AIDS story on GH but otherwise it's just been novelizations.