Members MarkH Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yes, that is a very good point. It DID change...noticeably. I think maybe that got a little better in the last 1-2 weeks...so maybe the team is also getting its' groove. But I'll concede that the TINY (credited) group during the WGA strike did pretty well. I think I disagree with you here. Kay Alden, CLEARLY, _edited_ her scripts. Oh, maybe she had others do that too...but one got a clear sense that she did a thorough read-through and edit for tone and structure. I think when you have a big team of writers, the early drafts and the show-to-show continuity are choppy by definition. The trick is...and that is why they pay you the big bucks...at the upper level you're supposed to polish that diamond and make the "show sound like the show" (and also FEEL like the show too). Whenever we see choppiness, I put the blame for that SOLELY at the HW/AHW level. That's a quality control problem more than a script writing problem. Of course, if you have a breakdown/dialogue writer who CONSISTENTLY introduces non-sequiturs, poor structure, etc...that would be evidence for getting rid of someone who makes script editing harder than it needs to be. But for me, the buck really does stop with the HW/AHW on final quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 I found a Chris quote: QUOTE (Chris B @ Feb 18 2008, 11:18 AM) I honestly don't think any LML writers should be kept on. They have no history of the show and were purposely brought on because their style is completely different from what Y&R is about. The biggest problem with LML's Y&R was the horrible pacing and structure of the episodes. Odd quick cuts in the middle of big emotional moments, 2 second scenes, focus on plot, zero character development, etc. Wouldn't this be mainly the work of an AHW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 I definitely remember these. I remember how much hope they filled me with. Sad, sad loss of opportunity. If Latham-Alden-Smith and Scott could have continued to work together, and been kept in balance, I think Y&R would be now (in a different way) what everyone is saying about OLTL. The show "with a bullet" to the top of the quality heap. I still think the early days of Latham (when everyone else was co-credited) had moments of sublime brilliance. But it all fell apart so ridiculously quickly when the balance of power shifted too far. As you may know, Usenet Shirl hates it when I say that...she says there was NEVER a balance of power. (Shirl has a personal friendship with some of the classic Y&R writers who were dismissed). It was always, Shirl claims, top-down and disrespectful-of-history-and-legacy. Even if that is true, I'll say that when LML was "saddled" with the old guard, the resulting product was quite good. As she "unburdened" herself of Bill Bell Sr.'s legacy, there was a direct connection with the decline in show quality. This is more than me wallowing in nostalgia. As JackPeyton has pointed out, the current ratings fall probably owes itself as much to LML's weakening of the show's base-of-indulgence with its' disappointed fans as it does to anything MAB is doing now. MAB's inability to fix the show is simply the straw breaking a camel's back already severely weakened by LML's Machiavellian final days on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yes, I agree with everything. However, this might be because Maria's didn't try to teach these people the real, Bell-esque Y&R. So all these people are left with are Latham's set of rules, which doesn't excuse neither them nor Maria. The one big problem I have with Y&R is that it was never a writers' room soap. So these people are scattered all over the country, doing hours of teleconferencing throughout the week and that's just not the same as sitting in a room with your HW talking story, dialogue, structure etc. It might be harder for an inexperienced HW like Maria to have a feel for certain writers' shortcomings. She did edit scripts; that was one of her primary tasks during her time with Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 I think that Chris quote was very insightful. I seem to think that--maybe--in the last week or so rain1 said something more explicit here, like not letting a conversation extend over two scenes. If I find it, I'll quote it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 It wasn't rain1, it was Sara A. Bibel in one of her blog posts. So since we're seeing a lot of Sarnoff writers movements on Y&R, I hope Hogan brings Frederick Johnson, who is also a Sarnoffian!!!! (So is Josh Griffith.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 That would be one of the things I'd love Hogan and Maria forever for! He's the only one in Hogan's universe that has extensive Y&R experience, training with Bill Bell. He's also worked with Agnes Nixon and Lorraine Broderick at AMC. If Y&R can fire some of their crappy AHW's, Frederick Johnson if he comes should be one of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 So no Bennet & Gottesfeld, no McLaughlin & Ahern? Yes! Thinking about it, he's a very good (if not excellent) candidate for the top spot. After all, Agnex Nixon wanted him as head writer, before his negotiations broke down and they hired another person for AMC. I want Fred!!! BTW: did you know that Diane Messina & James Stanley are repped by the oh-so-famous William Morris Agency (who reps e.g. Darren Star)? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Who is Sarnoff? Is this a writing program? Ah yeah, Sara Bibel. I always get her and rain1 confused. Anyway, the quote you mention is at this link: ETA: Bibel quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Nope, sorry, I think many of the show's current problems are squarely attributed to that 4some. IMO, Y&R's current AHW's suck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 James Sarnoff is, I guess, a guy who founded Sarnoff Company, Inc. The agency that reps a whole lot of soap writers. As I said previously, Josh Griffith and Hogan Sheffer among others. Tom Casiello also... Since Toups' 2007 episode writers list is confusing to me, can you list all of Y&R's BDWs? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Paula Cwikly, James Stanley, Darin Goldberg & Shelley Meals, and Marla Kanelos write BD's, I believe. Out of that list, Paula Cwikly is the ONLY ONE I'd keep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Kanelos is writing outlines?! Oh, you've gotta be kidding me... Anyway, when Toups comes, I'd be thankful if he wrote the Y&R team separated into two categories: BDW and SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dm. Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 I've been following the writers lists for Y&R and it goes like this: Head Writer Maria Arena Bell Associate Head Writers Cherie Bennett Jeff Gottesfeld Scott Hamner Natalie Minardi Slater Breakdown Writers Darin Goldberg James Stanley Marla Kanelos Paula Cwikly Shelley Meals Script Writers Brett Staneart Christian McLaughlin Eric Freiwald Linda Schreiber Michael Montgomery Sandra Weintraub Valerie Ahern Beth Milstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Thank you, dmarex!! Though, BDWs and AHWs are supposed to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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