Paul Raven
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Not really a feud but certainly animosity
ATWT Lisa/Ellen
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Jon Michael Reed suggested it was more suitable for a Tampax commercial.
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1 hour ago, kalbir said:
January 16, 1978 One Life to Live and General Hospital expand to 1 hr each.
The new ET schedules starting w/ the soaps until the end of the day were
CBS: 11:30 am Love of Life, noon Y&R, 12:30 pm Search for Tomorrow, 1 pm Local programming, 1:30 pm As the World Turns, 2:30 pm Guiding Light, 3:30 pm All in the Family reruns, 4 pm Match Game
ABC: 12:30 pm Ryan's Hope, 1 pm All My Children, 2 pm One Life to Live, 3 pm General Hospital, 4 pm The Edge of Night
NBC: 1 pm For Richer, For Poorer; 1:30 pm Days, 2:30 pm The Doctors, 3 pm Another World, 4 pm Local programming
The soap time slot rivalries were now
Search for Tomorrow vs. Ryan's Hope
All My Children vs. For Richer, For Poorer
As the World Turns vs. All My Children/One Life to Live vs. Days
Guiding Light vs. One Life to Live/General Hospital vs. The Doctors/Another World
General Hospital vs. Another World
That schedule was one factor contributing to the slow demise of soaps. Viewers now had some difficult choices to make. Whereas only a few years earlier you could spend 90 mins of your day watching 3 soaps, now it was 3 hours.
If you watched shows on different networks, they now went up against each other, so you either gave up one or watched on alternate days-quite likely giving up on one in the end.
It wasn't helpful to soaps as a genre.
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5 hours ago, Soaplovers said:
For example, you have Barbara having past life dreams about Gunnar/James, you have Barbara in the bull ring, you have Mr. Big, and you have Dr Bob married to Miranda. All situations that would have been just another day on Santa Barbara
To me that was the worst of the Dobsons - it just wasn't ATWT. That zany ,larger than life stuff was a turn off.
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1 hour ago, soapfave06 said:
I can’t remember the timeline of recasts though but I think Will, Jenny, Karen and Brad all end up recast around this time which probably did not help them long term.
All of those recasts were successful. Apart from Will, who was supporting,Jenny,Karen and Brad were frontburner and accepted by viewers.
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When TGL resumed in June 47 it was acompletely different show, now set in Selby Flats.
Dr Charles Matthews (Hugh Studebaker) was pastor of Church of Good Samaritan in Selby Flats , an underpriveleged area of LA.
The good doctor's philosophy of life was keynoted in the opening installment by a lamp of friendship delivered to him by a divinity student from Five Points.
'It's the symbol of 'The Guiding Light' says Dr Matthews.Now I know what to say at the state prison.'
The next scene took place at the prison and the new storylines unfolded
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2 hours ago, Khan said:
What was happening on OLTL the week of 11/21-11/25/77 for them to jump to #3? Was it a heavy Karen week?
Jenny canceled the wedding and Brad was incriminated in Lana's death when his ring was found in her apartment. Cathy insisted it wasn't suicide. Karen went bananas over Lana's death. She went on a bar-hopping look for Mr. Goodbar and kept on trucking while blowing Larry's money left and right. Sam shared Brad's confidence about finding Lana's tell-all note to Jenny. Will had the guilts after succumbing to Robin's charms.
Definitely the Will/Robin hookup pushed them to #3...
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Dusty Donovan was an iconic character? Amanda Spaulding?
'In terms of character creation the Dobsons were unmatched.'
I think Agnes Nixon, Irna Phillips and Bill Bell might have something to say about that.
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Regarding the Dobsons at GL and ATWT
They took over GL when it was a half hour show and there were fewer characters and stories to accomodate.
But by the time they took over ATWT it had been an hour show for 5 years and there were many more characters they had to deal with.
It was probably easier for them to make changes at GL than ATWT.
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Interesting to see GH take a ratings jump and move up to #6 in the Nov sweeps before Monty came on board.
Here's what was happening
Katie fretted about Lamonts deteriorating condition while Mark called in specialists. Lesley softened her regard for David, while Laura took a special interest in him. Lana buttered up Jeff for a seduction and confessed she and Lisa played twin tricks on their boyfriends. Monica was further attracted to Alan while working on their helicopter operation study for cardiac patients. Peter and Diana returned home with their adopted son, little Peter'
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3 hours ago, Vee said:
So did Martha Marceau just fade offscreen in the mid-70s, still in town but unseen like Bill a few years later? What little I've seen of Teri Keane on the show is very impressive.
I recall reading that at first Martha was said to be spending some time at the Marceau's Summer cottage but then she was just not mentioned anymore and Bill was seen in a professional capacity only.
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3 hours ago, SoapDope said:
Another jarring recast was the sudden firing of Mart Hulswit and the hiring or Peter Simon. I guess Marland brought him over from his stint on ATWT
Was that anything to do with Marland? He had written for Ed for quite a while before the switch.
I think it came from the higher ups - same as the decision to fire Adam, Barbara and Steve.
Ostensibly it was due to Hulswit balding and weight gain, but didn't he say something in a Locher Room interview that he was a strong union supporter and clashed with producers on some issues?
6 hours ago, Khan said:I know that L.A. itself played a crucial role in the storyline where little Mike Bauer, upset about all the attention being given toward his newborn baby brother, "Billy," ran away from home. IIRC, they searched for Mike in several, well-known parts of the city before finding him in (I think?) Griffith Park.
That was back in the 50's when Irna was still writing I think andif the show was based in LA she adhered to that. But later on, maybe not so much.
Selby Flats as a name actually suits what we saw in the the Peapack era.
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Probably the time has come to reunite Nick and Sharon. Really any other romances for them at this time aren't working-they should have evolved somewhat beyond falling in love repeatedly.
Now I know putting them together supposedly means less exciting stories but really, have either of them had much excitement over the past few years?
I'm thinking the breast cancer story, Cameron's return could have played out with them married.
They could still be active in the story if Mariah, Noah and Faith had more prominence.
Then we have the oft requested search for Sharon's father. That could provide airtime and possible angst. Sharon discovering a shady half brother could shake things up.
Desperatedly searching around for new love interests for them is no longer cutting it.
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@DRW50 thanks for posting.
Those live NY shows of the 50's were bursting with soap names. Probably everyone in that cast had done a soap.
It's often our only chance to get a look at some of those performers.
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Re Selby Flats. The explanation that a town name was not mentioned for a good while seems most likely but still the question remains as to why there was need to change it.
Selby Flats had operated as the locale since the 40's so why would anyone feel it was a problem ? It's not like the show was dealing with issues about living in an LA suburb. Mike Bauer wasn't kvetching to Bert about freeway traffic.
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1 hour ago, te. said:
Interesting how similar these numbers are, yet if I read this right, Knots had 12.5% coverage yet had pretty much the same numbers as Dynasty and Dallas which both had around 50%? Makes you wonder if Knots could've done better than both of them with more coverage, but maybe these just overperformed in some and bombed in others.
I guess a lot depended on timeslots. Some stations might show Knots at 4pm and others late night. It's not as straightforward as network.
I remember seeing in Variety Lorimar placing ads to tout KL for example, and cherry picking markets where the show was doing well, whereas actual ratings reports painted a different picture.
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Or Walter was in on the whole thing and faked being dead...
Or Walters wife/son/daughter/grandkid etc blames Nikki and comes back to torment her...
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Days from #4 to # 10 the next few months should put the Ann Marcus era in perspective.
Although Love of Life was way down in the rankings it was airing at 11.30 am when viewership was lower. The competition was Knockout on NBC and Family Feud on CBS so I would imagine LOL was #2 in the timeslot and may have been scoring slightly better demos in W 18-49 than the game shows.
EDIT went back through this thread and found ratings for w 18-34 Jan thru Aug 78.
Family Feud was #1 in that demo and LOL #17
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May 87 Syndicated Ratings Rating/share/number of markets/percentage of the country
1. Wheel of Fortune 18.9 34 199 99.6
2. Jeopardy 11.3 27 187 98.1
3. Oprah Winfrey Show 9.3 34 154 93.6
4. PM Magazine 8.5 17 39 31.1
5. M *A *S *H 7.7 19 164 91.8
6. Peoples Court 7.1 21 185 96.7
7. Phil Donahue Show 6.9 28 182 97.5
8. New Newlywed Game 6.6 15 178 97.2
9. Ent. Tonight 6.5 15 142 87.8
9. Three's Company 6.5 16 146 87.1
11. Big Spin 6.4 14 10 10.8
11. Hollywood Squares 6.4 16 142 85.6
13. Card Sharks 6.1 15 29 21.3
14. Facts of Life 5.4 13 109 79.4
15. Magnum, P.I. 5.3 15 119 77.6
16. Benson 4.9 13 102 60.6
16. Diff'rent Strokes 4.9 13 123 77.2
16. Jeffersons 4.9 13 102 66.1
19. Hee Haw 4.8 16 172 82.8
20. Divorce Court 4.7 16 138 85.8
20. Fight Back 4.7 15 29 36.5
20. Gimme a Break 4.7 11 97 75.9
23. Barney Miller 4.5 13 89 56.3
23. Judge 4.5 17 73 63.2
23. Superior Court 4.5 16 107 71.9
23. Too Close- Comfort 4.5 10 80 66.6
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Not invested in GH but have enjoyed the thread.
What I don't understand is that certain actors, most of whom are well past their use by date are being given (perceived?) power to dictate aspects of story and couplings etc.
They should be damn grateful that they're employed in the first place.
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Night time soaps rarely dug into the past, unlike daytime. Especially the self contained eps.
The above mentioned examples as evidence.
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AW
Donna -Anna Stuart v Philece Sampler
Vicky - Anne Heche v Jensen Buchanan
Y&R
Over time Jack Abbott Terry Lester v Peter Bergman
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8 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:
According to stories, they existed on many shows. Do you judge them all so harshly?
Pretty much yes! Worked with one at one time and was unamused by their antics.
1 hour ago, Lye-C said:I’m very curious about the Manhattan Lives spinoff which was intended to star Deidre Hall. It involved Marlena relocating to New York. I believe Sheri Anderson developed it. I’m not sure if her leading men were meant to accompany her nor do I know if any other cast members were going to join her. They likely would have aged Sami and Eric. Would Carrie have stayed in Salem?
I believe there was another spinoff developer called Pacific Lives and would have been about Tommy Horton working as a doctor in Hawaii.
Check out the Proposed Soaps thread for details on Manhattan Lives.
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‘Falcon Crest’ writers call Palm Springs home
Desert Sun Dec 19 2013
By Xochitl Peña;It may be surprising to know that two of the writers behind some of the most theatrical nighttime soap operas of the 1980s are anything but melodramatic.There are no angry slaps or throwing of cocktails between Steve Black and Henry Stern — just a lot of laughing.
“We laugh all the time. We wake up and we start doing shtick. When we’re making the bed we are laughing and talking,” said Black.
The Palm Springs couple have logged more than 600 hours of primetime and daytime television between the two over their approximately 27 years as writing partners.
The two are known for their long run as writers and producers of “Falcon Crest” — the nighttime soap that ran from 1981 to 1990 and featured the late Jane Wyman as the matriarch of the Falcon Crest Winery.
But throughout the years they also wrote episodes for “Flamingo Road,” “Paper Dolls,” “Matlock,” “Knots Landing,” “Silk Stalkings,” “Dynasty,” “Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman” and “As the World Turns.” Their first paid gig was a script for “The Love Boat.”
“The thing we love to do best is tell stories and the best genre for that is an ongoing serial drama whether it is daytime or nighttime and we found that we had a great affinity for it and we took to that,” said Stern, 67.
“It was Black and Stern all the way through,” said Black, 71.
The two also wrote television movies with the biggest thrill coming when they got to write a movie for Audrey Hepburn.
“It was the only thing she did for American television and it was because she read another script we had done. Because she loved our script, she agreed to do one with us,” said Stern.
The movie was called “Love Among Thieves” and came out in 1987. The two recall how the script originally called for Hepburn to be hiding in a refrigerated meat car. The thought of getting up close and personal with meat carcass, though, did not appeal to Hepburn. So they changed the scene to a refrigerated car full of flowers. That was her only change to the script, they said.
“We lived and breathed television. It became our lives,” said Black.
Early inspiration
What drove their long and prosperous success was a love for the genre and not being pigeonholed as just comedy or drama writers. They tried everything, said Stern.
Before they met and started working together, Stern was producing shows on Broadway and Black was a promotion writer for Look Magazine and wrote plays.
They were both in their 20s when they met at a New York bar that had just opened in March 1969 — just months before the Stonewall riots that led to the gay liberation movement.
“I kept asking him to dance and he declined,” said Black. “I went back and he finally agreed to meet me for lunch.”
That persistence paid off because the two quickly became a couple, committed to each other months later on June 10 of that same year.
“When you know, you know,” said Stern.
Black remembers having to push apart their twin beds during the day just in case folks from work stopped by.
Though they were never closeted, being gay wasn’t as accepted early in their lives as it is today, said Stern.
“The sense of belonging and not having that stigma of just ‘oh well we’re tolerated’ really came about as gay rights became more and more available to peoples,” said Black.
“We were in that transitional generation. We appreciate much more what we have today because of the experiences we had to go through,” said Stern.
he two were at the kitchen counter when the Supreme Court in June cleared the way for same-sex marriage.
“It was a very emotionally draining moment,” said Black.
“That was the day we knew we would be getting married very soon,” said Stern.
When they could finally apply for a marriage license, they were third in line in Indio.
The two were married on July 1 at Palm Springs City Hall by Mayor Steve Pougnet after 44 years together.
“We are fortunate to live in this wonderful community where it’s accepted as part of the fabric,” said Black.
Sitting side-by side on their couch, it’s evident by the gentle touch of a hand or gaze, the love between the two is still burning bright — even after all these years.
“We’ve had a wonderful ride,” said Black.
“I loved being able to work with Steve. That was a wonderful part of it that we got to experience this together. The relationships were symbiotic. The personal enhanced the work, the work enhanced the personal,” said Stern.
As for how they were able to come up with so many dramatic story lines: “Everyone has imagination,” said Black.
“The trick is to take what could happen in real life and to exaggerate it into something dramatic that will be interesting to watch because you don’t want to watch real life,” said Stern.
What are your favorite shows?
Both agree for dramas it’s “Homeland” and “Scandal.” For comedy, it is “Modern Family.”
What actor did you most enjoy working with?
Audrey Hepburn. “Probably the most generous, most respectful actor we ever worked for,” said Black.
“She was everything in person that you expected her to be. So lovely and easy to work with,” said Stern.
What is key to working together?
Trust. “The element you can’t manufacture in a partnership is trust,” said Black.
Also, added Stern, if they had an argument at home, they didn’t bring it work and vice versa.
What was your toughest gig?
They became head writers on “As the World Turns” and moved to New York.
“As a head writer you are responsible for every single piece of material that goes on five-hours a week, no break, 52 weeks a year. We got there and were working seven days a week, 12 to14 hours a day,” said Stern.
What is the biggest difference between dramas today compared to when you were writing?
The amount of expletives that are allowed and how fast paced they move.
“Today everything has to move very quickly and it’s much more visual. The attention span of the audience is much smaller,” said Stern.
Said Black: “It’s a texting mentality. Everything is short and sweet.”
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ALL: From Daytime to Primetime...and back again
in Discuss The Soaps
Posted
Ray Wise
Began his career as Jamie on Love of Life in the 70's, moved on to decades of primetime with Twin Peaks finally giving him some recognition. Eventually returned to soaps in the 2010's on Y&R as Ian Ward.