Paul Raven

As mentioned primetime soaps didn't really go back to past stories and characters to propel new plots

 Sid's daughter, Abby's  ex Jeff, Judy Trent, Karen's brother and assorted others never came back to stir up trouble or provide story for the regulars.

Seems a missed opportunity in a lot of cases.

Did we ever learn about Val's father?

@Matt thanks for posting and reviving the thread.

Thanks for Tomorrow must have been fairly short lived as it is quite obscure. Hasit been mentioned here before? And it seems Mary Jane Higby was the lead in this and When A Girl Marries.

Oh and I think it should Nov 1951.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

I still would love to know who "K.C. Collier" was.  I've never seen that name pop up anywhere else.

Yes pretty sure it was Millee Taggart as witnessed by the fact that she and Tom King were long timer writing partners and she was listed on their next  writing stint.

Wasn't it the case that P&G didn't want actors on their shows to be recognized as writers? hence Don Hastings was CC Matthews etc - but once Millee left SFT she could use her own name.

Meanwhile a wickedly seductive Phyllis battles with Christine to get into Danny’s heart (and his pants).

Phyllis going all seductive with Danny is creepy. If it was written that she has such low self esteem that she's driven to this and Danny thinks she's quite pathetic and tries to help her it might work.

But we have to believe that Phyllis is still one sexy lady and Danny can't help but be tempted. He looks like a total idiot. And really I can't see why even Phyllis would be interested at this point.

The notion that Danny is still some relevant rock star is ridiculous. Have they said he is touring on the oldies circuit?

Why not have him on the management side of the business now? Would be more believable.

But Josh wants Danny/Phyllis/Christine from 1993..Over 50's acting like teens is not a good look.

3 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Where do you see that? I don't see any sign that happened. 

Well soaps were seen as womens' entertainment so that immediately placed it lower on the ladder.

And coupled with lower budgets and salary and working conditions they were at the bottom of the pecking order.

And we have to be honest,sometimes the finished product was lacking.

in light of Bridget Dobson's passing,i was thinking about the Dobsons 2 stints as headwriters. Why did they return? There was never much mention of that in the press.

I think most would agree that the initial stint was pretty hit and miss.

They introduced James Stenbeck but early on he became a fully fledged villian which was limiting. At first he seemed to be more of a grey character as we were (like Barbara) expected to be swept away by his charisma and be intrigued by his dar side.

One thing James did do was introduce international intrigue to Oakdale.

In contrast to GL where Roger and Rita's shenanigans took place in Texas.

Margo was the other key character, being the daughter of John Dixon and a new feisty heroine.

Bur Brad, Nick, original recipe Steve were duds.

Instead of the proposed headwriting stint  at AW in 93, imagine if the Dobsons returned to GL.

I think only Ed, Ross and Roger were still around.

Wonder how they would have reshaped the show?

4 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Having delusions is a serious psychological issue.

I agree. I did not use that word.

57 minutes ago, Beachstorm said:

Tara Locke was imprisoned for embezzling from her shoe company (not for tax reasons), just FYI.

OK Thanks.

Small change compared to stuff Phyllis, Victor and others have got away with.

If you are a woman of a certain age and status in Oakdale you WILL wear a fur coat.

Another thing common to ATWT and other soaps is that the hospital is absolutely buzzing. Doctors and Nurses are hurriedly moving back and forth , but there never seem to be any civilians except the main cast. It's like they were so delighted in the 80's to finally have a bigger budget for extras, they went over the top. IRL a hospital floor can be fairly quiet.

Same with the police station. There seemed to be 5 or 6 extras almost running into each other . I'm glad those guys were getting some work but they could have easily cut down on the extras budget or at least slowed things down-maybe 2 guys talking at a desk?

Both of those primetime shows were pretty bad.

AW was basically trying to push some sultry vibe that did nothing to entice anybody to watch either the special or the regular series. It certainly wasn't on brand.

And the GL special was pretty slapdash as I recall.

Yes, I don't recall any pre publicity stating that the show was going to be tongue in cheek or satire. Had they done that then maybe viewers/critics might have had adifferent attitude.

Instead we were promised a Peyton Place meets Twin Peaks vibe. Kinda gothic, suspenseful and mysterious, maybe a little off beat.

And what we got amongst other things in the first ep  was Galen Gering and Jesse Metcalfe on location having an episode long conversation...

Definition of deluded

adjective. entertaining a false belief or opinion; mistaken or deceived in mind or judgment:

My comment stands.

12 minutes ago, danfling said:

The departure of Martha Marceau, as badly as it was handled, was better than the departure of the character of Phil Capice.    Ray McDonell left the show to join the cast of All My Children.  Mary K, Wells as Louise remained.  Phil was always somewhere else when Louise appeared.

I remember one particular time when the show opened with Ann Flood as Nancy yelling from the front door of the Karr home saying,  "Bye, Louise and Phil...."

So Ray left to do AMC . You would think EON would just have Ray accept an out of town job offer and depart with Louise.

Maybe it was very sudden and they were caught unawares?

So while they thought about recasting or dropping Phil altogether, Louise stayed on until Mary K Wells could be dropped per her contract. I assume she too just disappeared.

Just checked out Liquid Soap -what an odd selection of videos. The concept is great-the execution not so much.

13 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

There must have been a catalyst to propel all the change in the early 1980s.  What was it?

As I said the success of GH that got media attention on soaps in a way that never happened before and the arrival of nightime soaps that gave the genre way more attention.

So TPTB decided that the slower pace domestic angle was not what the public wanted, even though that had worked for decades. Also demographics were changing with more women working, VCRs introduced and new competition from cable. Things were in a state of flux but the response was in the main wrong.

6 minutes ago, Errol said:

Didn't she go to prison though for some pretty severe crimes?

It was some tax issues.

Meanwhile other criminals guilty of far worse wander shamelessly through town.

That kid is going to have major issues down the line.

These deluded folk think that they can get Bo and Hope back because they really, really want that.

Isn't Tyler Perry's stuff all done on the cheap (non union etc) and people work on the shows because he is creating employment and giving opportunities to black actors and creatives?

Jamie probably realizes that his work options are limited by a number of factors, including an apparent lack of talent, so he'll go back to Days in the meantime.

Ron probably likes his campy take on the scripts.

Tara is Harrison's mother but Y&R have Summer acting as his mom and everyone pretending that Tara doesn't exist.

The people involved in the soaps from the more traditional era 50's-70's slowly were edged out, retired and died.

Roy Winsor, Irna Phillips, Henry Slesar and later Harding Lemay,Pat Falken Smith, Bill Bell,Agnes Nixon plus people like Ed Trach and Bob Short at P&G. 

The list goes on.

So the next generation- people like Pam Long, Chris Goutman, Megan McTavish, Jill Farren Phelps,Chuck Pratt and Ron Carvilati really only knew soaps from the 80's style and were not aware or interested in the past. Execs were the same and kept trying to 'update' the soaps in the wrong way.

Hence Passions,The City and Sunset Beach.

GH got a lot of attention and ratings success out of LnL. a failing hospital based soap was re-invented as a more action oriented serial.

So other shows thought far out stories involving young couples was what the audience wanted. They too would take on a new identity as GH had done.

And nightime soaps took off so that become the default template and  in came glamor and big business.

The domestic/ small town / generational/emotional angst angles that had been the bedrock of soaps for decades  took a back seat.

It was a short sighted approach as soaps became dependent on hot couples and plot based storylines.

41 minutes ago, Vee said:

I always forget that it wasn't Marland that brought on Amanda and Lucille Wexler but the Dobsons. How much did they set up with Amanda being a Spaulding, etc? IIRC the Jennifer angle and Morgan were all Marland.

I think as soon as Amanda and Lucille was introduced the Dobsons had the long term plan in place that they were tied to the Spauldings and that Alan was Amanda's father. The identity of the mother was not dealt with.

 Then  Marland explored that  introducing Jennifer and Morgan.

Two characters sitting at Society talking-that pic could be from any episode in the last 4 years...