quartermainefan

I think it's been more than clear too, but I had read some of the books before the series started. But one thing, as has been pointed out, Jon and Dany re the two sorta on either end of the outside--seemingly fighting for a greatergod han all the in-wars and back and forth fighting between the Westeros groups.

Ironic that so many critics think both fo these actors are the worst in the show (something I don't really agree with, I think they are both more than fine for their roles.)

Jon and Dany (and Arya) are the clear leads, but Jon and Dany each star in their own little TV shows that could literally be edited out and set up as spin offs. If Dany makes it to the mainland and interacts with anyone named Lannister or Stark by season 6 I will be shocked. At the pace her story is proceeding, she should hit land sometime around season 12.

I just can't get away from the scene in season 1 where Ned said all the Baratheon illgitimate children had black hair (where Joffrey did not). Targaryans seem as blond as blond can be, and Starks don't tend to have jet black hair either. So where did Jon get his black hair from? That's just thing that sticks with me.

If I have any real quibble with the TV version of the show, it's similar to yours Ann. I'm not sure that people who have only watched the show are getting enough clues as to who Jon may be. It's still all speculation, but people should be speculating and that's not happening because they've left out a lot of the hints that are in the book.

Back on page 8 of this thread, July 2011 I posted my Jon theory

Oh, theories are fine. I said way back I think that Jon Snow is gonna wind up being the son of the dead king because he out of nowhere has black hair. The King had an affair with Ned's dead sister and for some reason or another, Ned took the baby to protect him from the evil blond family. He has raised him ever since, but Mrs Ned has no idea.

Tywin hasn't won anything yet. Stannis and the Red priestess are still at work. Dany is across the narrow sea with dragons and an army of unsullied too. Plus, there are major players in the game we haven't even met yet.

It's not the same, at least not for me. Part of the thing about the series was watching these various Starks all struggling to get back to each other, Arya especially, the boys trying to find Jon, Robb trying to find the girls. And now I see it is just a bleak neverending, no pay off endeavor. Arya will never find anybody as far as I can see. The boys will probably never find Jon, Sansa will never be rescued either. It is just a futile exercise for the family of good.

I love the Lannisters, but every story needs the heroes too, and sometimes there has to be some sense of triumph like the goodguys won one. I just don't see that happening any time soon for any of them. We watched Arya struggle for two years to get to Robb, and all she got was watching her dog die. At least they could have let her rescue the wolf. That simple thing alone would have been satisfying.

Infuriating episode. The show is just so bleak and I don't know where the show goes if you kill off the good guys. So Tywin wins the war 1-2-3. Not satisfying at all. Poor Robb, he was such a good guy who just made a couple of mistakes. The actor did a really good job playing him because the role was not one of the flashy leads and still Rob came out to be an ongoing concern you wanted to see what would happen next. Cat I liked too even though so many of the problems that befell her family stemmed from her decisions. Had she not freed Jaime, the Carstarks would have not turned on Robb,

This made me sad watching it.

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Bob Dole came to fame as Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976 and he was a hyper partisan, nasty attack dog.  As the years went on he mellowed and became known as a lovable grouch quick with a wisecrack.   He dutifully ran against Bill Clinton 1996 when he had no shot but someone from his party had to, and he was an old pro who had been around washington working with the big names of his era. 

This is the first time I have seen him in years and it just makes me sad to see what has become of him.  His mind is still sharp and he knows what he is saying (and what he is saying is right), but his body is failing him.

He also used public dollars to take the trip, he paid it back, but that fact of the matter he shouldn't have used it in the first place.

And Dick Cheney used public dollars to wage a war as a source of his own entertainment. Did he pay anything back? Newt Gingrich used public dollars to not examine whitewater but to seek out Clinton affairs and then used more public dollars trying to impeach him for having the nerve to lie about cheating on his wife. Did he pay anything back? This is the one guy out of all of them who actually paid the government back. The NJ governor that put his boyfriend into cushy jobs, he didn't pay anything back. The pedo congressman who went after male pages a few years back, he didn't pay anything back. The guy who stored cash in his fridge paid nothing back. John McCain was involved in the biggest banking scandal pre 2008 and he paid nothing back. This guy spent a few dollars on planes or hotels, paid the money back, the woman he ran to see he is engaged to I believe. It is a crimeless crime. There isn't a single victim in his case.

Given his ethical flaws, I would not have voted for Sanford. But,

I don't think what he did had anything to do with ethics. This is the guy that ran away to south america to be with another woman? Isn't he now engaged to her? It's not like he was conducting a sleazy hooker binge one weekend. Clearly he was married to the wrong woman, and he felt so strongly about it to the point where he literally ran away. How is that a matter of ethics? He didn't steal money or anything like that. About the worst he did was use public money to pay for his traveling. But lets be real here, if the country wasn't so provincial and puritanical he wouldn't have felt the need to run. He cheated on his wife and therefore you admit you could not vote for him. How does he cheating on his wife in any way impact his intellectual capabilities? And what does any of this have to do with ethics? Who is worse, Newt Gingrich who dumped his dying wife on her deathbed or this guy whose big crime was that he ran away to be with a woman he wanted to marry?

Ethics would be a discussion of John Edwards, the scum of the earth. This guy is a saint in comparison. Now if you want to discuss a lack of ethics, look at those republican Oklahoma senators who were against FEMA and money going to NJ and NY but suddenly want FEMA to come in and help Oklahoma, population 3 when last checked. Ethics is we help those 3 people even though they were against helping the millions of NY and NJ people. That was petty and hateful, showed a lack of character and no ethics whatsoever. I would trust Sandford over those jokes from OK crying for help when it was only a few months ago they were willing to let NJ be washed away.

Good episode. You have to love how Joffrey never fails to find new ways to be rotten. He has to be the meanest character on all of TV. All the Lannisters were in fine form this episode. I loved Cersei first threatening to kill her future daughter in law/sister in law, and then dismissing her beloved gay fiancee so nonchalantly. I really don;t understand why Cersei and Tyrion just don't tell Tywin no at some point.

The Gendry stuff interests me, but what is it with this show and penises??? This is the second episode they have come under attack.

Epic season finale. Not a single bad scene in the entire show and it was non-stop. I loved the melodramatic Roy/Thea embrace amidst the carnage and the end with Tommy was perfect. This gets a 10 out of 10 from me. A great, fun show and a bright spot on network TV.

Considering all the scenes we've seen of Tywin (from his first with Tyrion to the one with both his children) Charles Dance has been terrifying. The scene was a major disappointment cuz Joff didn't really seem all too worried or scared of Tywin. Nor did Tywin really put him in his place like he does in the novels (albeit in a totally different scene with both Cersei and Tyrion present...)

Charles Dance has emerged as one of the MVPs of the show. His character started out so minor in season 1, but now if Tywin doesn't show up every episode I am disappointed. And he works well with everyone, from Arya to Joffrey and all the adults along the way.

Poor Theon, I have to just hope for his sake this is all being done by renegade rabbis.

This story seems so unnecessary to the greater plot, I am not sure why the author felt the need to add it. This episode was sort of so so, not much happened except for Jaime continuing to show his attachment to Brienne. I wanted more from the Tywin/Joffrey scene. I don't know what I wanted, but I guess I wanted Tywin to take charge and not pretend to placate Joffrey and his kingly fantasies about running things. Robb seems incredibly happy so his days have to be numbered.

In 2011 HBO's subscriber fees were $1.3 Billion. HBO as I read this is owned by Time/Warner which has annual revenues exceeding $10 Billion and possibly $15 Billion by now. Assuming each episode costs $6 million, HBO spends $60 million, a paltry sum to T/W who also makes money by showing HBO content overseas. HBO has over 90 million subscribers worldwide forking over their money every month.

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0812/how-hbo-makes-money.aspx

I honestly don't think HBO is breaking the bank on these shows. They are rolling in cash, T/W is beyond capable of financing HBO.

Im disappointed by who was really catfishing Ryder. Wish it was Joe. Why? To give him personality

He should have punched him out. It's creepy and shows signs of a sick obssessive personality. The MIT thing was beyond silly. The songs weren't so hot either.

ITA. The books are dense with too many characters. TPTB have to adapt them in a way that keeps the tv audience entertained or there will not be many more seasons ahead. On the show, there are simply too many characters and storylines as things stand. It makes it hard to keep track of the plots and important characters/stories get omitted out of some episodes which make the plots move at a snail's pace. The show should focus on the intrigue at King's Landing, the Starks, Jamie/Brienne, and Dany and cut down on everything else including Stannis. Theon's torture should be eliminated completely.

I love that there are so many characters. I think the answer is not to cut characters but to have 5 more episodes a year or make each episode 90 minutes. It adds to the sense we are watching this whole world.

She's not, but she sure does act like one.

well her nickname is The Queen Of Thorns....

I loved this episode. One of my few complaints with the series has been due to the large cast no one ever gets more than five minutes of screentime in these short little eavesdropping scenes. We got a nice extended visit with Jon Snow which was really needed. I wish the show would occasionally showcase a single locale like they did with the war episode last year because this one episode with Jon really served him well and helped establish his relationships with the people he is with. If he isn't seen again until the finale it wouldn't hurt him one bit because the show went into great detail with him this episode.

Diana Rigg is great. She's been great for 50 years and the scene with the Queen and Tywin was outstanding. These two should get married! I had to turn away during the Theon scene, it was gruesome. I was a little unclear about who was sailing away at the end but I have to assume it was the gay knight (I forget his name). Poor Sansa. I continue to love Jaime and Brienne and I love how she helped him cut his dinner. These two are an unlikely breakout pair but they just work. And again he is looking out for her.

No, not as a favored child but he does think he is above Cersei as a person (and maybe he is). She thinks she is above him too. And both are impressed with themselves and Tywin is impressed with neither.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has become the best actor on the show, or at least he is a good actor in the best role. His scene retelling what happened at King Landing was just a guy talking and yet riveting waiting to hear what happened and why. I also loved the last bit when he corrected Brienne on his name. Tywin Lannister has to be the toughest Lannister of all, the guy just is relentless. That scene was great too and I loved how it started out brother and sister each thinking they are above the other, and by the end of it they were exactly in the same boat when it came to dear old dad.

Yet another episode where Santana steals the show. Naya Rivera is the unsung hero of Glee, routinely outsinging people with bigger voices. You don't need glory notes to sing songs (which is why you are dull Unique and Mercedes) and you do need to do more than just sing every note technically correct (that would be Rachel and Kurt). I don't think she has ever given a bad song on the show. And I was surprised at what a performer Jane Lynch is musically. She really sold that song. Sarah Jessica Parker was also good.

Was that Chad from DOOL playing the frat brother?

I thought Rachel's number was nice that the entire original cast sang back up for her. Other than that it was a little blah. The scene with the coach making them take a vow was amusing, but storywise and musicwise this episode was a giant nothing.

So innocent people deserve to die that never voted for any of these people?

No, no individual deserves to die, but the society as a whole deserves whatever ills befall it because of its decisions. If 100 people watch as 2 get shot, and then the 98 decide guns are good, and then out of those 98 watch 2 more get shot, they sort of lose the right to blame anyone but themselves. As long as the US population doesn't object to everyone owning a gun then we will continue to have school shootings. It really is that simple. Maybe my math is wrong but if you check every other western country on earth where they have strict gun control, you will see gun violence is a fraction of what it is here even adjusted for sizes in population. I feel bad for the kids and everyone who wants gun control.

For continuing to elect conservatives who fellate the NRA any time it demands, the country deserves every school shooting it gets. 85% of the country supported improved background checks, but the conservatives just don't care what the country thinks. Then when the next shooting happens we will hear desperate wailing of "why god, why?" and the answer will be, as it ever was and always will be, " because you elected conservatives who whore themselves out to the NRA, that's why"

I didn't now Emily McL was married to Jeffrey Hunter. He was a good actor, I guess most famous as "Capt Pike" on Star Trek and Jesus in "King Of Kings" but if you want to see him in what is universally considered a classic, check out "The Searchers".

Poor Jaime. I don't know what use there is for a kingslayer if he can't slay anyone. He is my favorite Lannister and I love how his character has changed so much since the first episode where total evilosity set the whole show in motion. He didn't have to go to bat for Brienne. The one thing I don't understand is if she was bringing him to King's Landing anyway, why even bother to try to escape? Their sword fight last week was great but it was literally a no-stakes confrontation since whoever won the result would have been the same.