Cat

18 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Now that I'm thinking about it, anytime someone semi famous does one of these housewife shows.. I end up not liking them anymore (Rinna, Kim Fields, Heather Dubrow, Eileen, and Garcelle/Denise Richards is on my side eye list).   Maybe actors/actresses shouldn't do these shows if they hope to have a long lasting acting career LOL 

I see your point, but am also heartbroken that you don't like EiLegend Davidson anymore. It took a minute, but I still love her. Despite everything that happened on RHOBH, I believe Eileen is good people. (I love Garcelle, too, I must say).

1 hour ago, Gray Bunny said:

... complete with her fart box soundtrack. 

I thought I was the only one on earth who noticed that Bravo assigned her segments (and ONLY her segments) the farty saxophone! 

I really dislike Wigs n Cigs, but do I kind of want to see the implosion? Oui. I want to see the IRS ready to serve her a subpoena at her front door, Lynne Curtin's daughters-style. I want to see Kroy spilling the beans on who she cheated with (yes, he's already said she cheated). I've been waiting a long time for that televised comeuppance.

2 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

and I'd sooner welcome back Kim Fields before Zolciak

FTR: Kim Fields' season was a great season IMO. She was unsuspecting comic relief, and she still bested Kenya in every way -- including at reunion.

Monyetta is a somewhat more erudite Carmon but remains Kandi's hired minion and mouthpiece.

Courtney as a FOH is definitely no Kim Granatell. She's not even a Yovanna.

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

A few years ago, there was a certain number of the banking and business sectors that tried to promote the idea of a “cashless” society and at first, I was willing to hear them out but upon hearing more information, I decided that it would eventually become another facet of a divide along socioeconomic lines, with the ‘haves’ benefiting and the ‘have nots’ being at a marked disadvantage. We’re already getting a taste of the repercussions of this with some establishments that have tried to deny cash payments, for example an upscale fast-casual eatery called Sweetgreen (very popular here in the Northeast U.S.) which was forced to reverse their anti-cash policy after a severe backlash once the policy became public.

I love that people reacted against it and Sweetgreen acquiesced! So many big businesses now talk the talk of 'listening to our customers' but don't walk the walk. They basically want to force square pegs into round holes, as I've said before.

Before I derail this tech thread completely, I just wanted to repeat a rumor regarding the vanishing of physical banks from main street -- there are whispers that the ECB wants to introduce a CBDC (central bank digital currency) later this year (October?), and the removal of banks' physical presence on the continent may be part of that. However, this could also be a conspiracy theory started by an irate bank customer.

7 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

ATL

This season is rough and production knows it. When we see them doing editing tricks to give Kenya demon eyes, and editing the footage of the women packing up their bags and getting Uber Eats like it’s a late 90s R&B video you know they’re in big trouble.

Kenya’s non storyline with that halftime show was such a flop. I’d have respect for her if she powered through and did it, but no she went off and got a chest X Ray that showed she’s fine. At least when Vicki Gunvalson melodramatically goes to the ER it has comedic value. 

Speaking of tired storyline, Kandi should be careful because I cannot imagine anyone gives a f*ck about Mama Joyce continuing to hate Todd for the last decade, plus.

Time to get cameras on Wigs & Cigs and Nene to try and save this franchise.

7 hours ago, Antoyne said:

This cast truly lacks chemistry and it’s hurting the show. It feels like they barely tolerate each other. 

RHOA has lost the humor that took it to the top of the RH franchises. The ones who understood comedy either got grumpy (Nene), fired (Phaedra) or left of their own accord (Porsha).

Kenya and Kandi are not natural comedians. Sheree's comedy was her obliviousness. The shade is now about jabbing each other, not having a belly laugh. Editing is trying to fill the humor gap but failing. There is also no cohesion: everyone comes across as a work hire.

I've been waiting for my streaming service to upload last week's AND yesterday's episode. It claims there is a 'technical issue' but has no problem uploading RHONJ, VPR and other Bravo content. I don't know what's going on, but it happened with last season's RHOA, too. It's symbolic of the way Bravo has checked out of this franchise. They need to bring back Nene, Porsha, Phaedra, Cynthia, even KZB (though I really don't like her). Just throw everything at this show, and if Kandi or Kenya are unhappy about those returns, welp... 

13 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Wow, @Catwhat happened to your parents with the Eurostar was unacceptable! That makes me incensed just to read it. The use of tech in customer service has now become infused with a deliberate lack of humanity—soulless, devoid of regard. I have often felt as if these systems have become a barrier so that companies can minimize their contact with human beings.

100%. Companies want to block any criticism or duck accountability with regards to delivering a service. They sent two young kids to deal with hundreds of passengers, and they just repeated the mantra "Please go onto the website and rebook your journey." Not one executive or decision-maker was visible.

To compound matters, I ended up catching Covid from the melée of passengers at the station, lol.

This is what I mean about being let down by tech. A more personalized, human(e) service would have been more efficient in this situation. Within an hour, most passengers could have been quickly rebooked on trains that very day. But Eurostar just wants the algorithm deal with everything, and save some $$ and avoid either training humans or having to deal with human customers.

Another example: the closure of physical retail bank spaces in the UK. They want everyone to do banking 'on the app.' This is isolating a sizeable portion of older or immigrant residents who prefer dealing in cash and checks and don't know how to use computers or fancy smartphones. How to take out cash or deposit checks? Where do you go when you notice fraud in your account or on your credit card? Sit on a phone for half-an-hour and go through the motions dictated by automated voicecall?

14 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

To get around the protectionist accusations, I think the Biden administration is trying to carve out some collaborative trade agreements with allied countries, particularly European Union nations where the concerns and grumbling has been the strongest (and loudest). I think that neither the United States nor the EU wants to close off any potential pathways to sell their products to the other’s consumers. As long as no nation becomes dependent upon any one nation outside of its own borders, the cross trade agreements could be a sound idea.

Biden also recognises the alliance aspect of shared values under threat. But I will say that the Inflation Reduction Act was not well received in the EU -- it was seen as a competitive strike to attract European green business across the Atlantic to the US. Now the EU is trying to formulate meaningful green subsidies and incentives of its own.

13 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The U.S. is already doing in this vein with some foreign companies from Taiwan and South Korea having built fabrication plants in some U.S. states, mostly in the South but at least one major fabrication plant in upstate New York.

Fear of an invasion of Taiwan is also governing this decision. Will the US back the Pacific alliance of Taiwan, Japan and South Korea? Guess that depends on who is in the WH.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

There will always be the aspect of unintended consequences.

In the mid 1990s as a student, I started using the Internet, when it was still referred to as the “World Wide Web”. By the late 1990s, I took a college computer science course in html, where we “practiced” how to build a website from html code. There were no  templates back then, you had to create one. Inside humor but if you couldn’t make the little dog fetch, you couldn’t make the links work, essentially rendering your website unusable. Back then, the intention of the internet was as an information tool, to share information, which is probably why it is often referred to as Information Technology (IT), right? Also the reason why educational institutions like colleges and universities were among the first places outside of NASA to open up use of this technology. It was meant to be am educational and information sharing tool. There was never any thought to commerce or porn or harassing people online. But it happened, and it happened very quickly. I remember the first AOL online disks going out into households (I used Netzero myself, as it was still free back then). I didn’t visit chat rooms but at the prodding of someone, ventured into one and noticed the harassment almost immediately. Strangers (most likely men) asking for my measurements, what I looked like…I handled it by giving ridiculous responses. But, after batting away relentless impertinent questions, I exited the chat room, and have never entered one since. I mentioned this because the Internet has consistently evolved this way. The big corporations entered the chat, so to speak and gulped down all the smaller, locally run ISPs started by entrepreneurs and ramped up the price and gradually stalled innovation. In the early ‘00s, I was the first person to complain to my local bank about a phishing email that I had received from a scammer spoofing their website. They had no idea what “phishing” even was back then, but promised they would investigate it. They soon sent emails and letters to their customers warner of scams using websites that are designed to be nearly identical to their website and notified customers that they would never e-mail their customers request account information or personal details via email. At the risk of sounding negative, I bear no illusions of AI being used as a tool for any kind of altruistic purpose. If the “Godfather of AI” is warning of dangers, after he abruptly quit Google, hey I’m more in favor of giving more regard to what he is saying. JMO.

In terms of tech sovereignty, I am in favor of it, and I rate it as somewhat in line with food security, every nation should look to have a degree of sustainability for national and economic security. I do think that when a nation like Chile does it, it is regarded as being for reasons of sovereignty and no one questions it, but when a nation like the U.S. does the same, it tends to be regarded with immediate suspicion. I am not saying that, based on the U.S.’ history, suspicion isn’t warranted, I am just saying that people will not regard Chile or Tanzania in the same way, they will regard the U.S. doing the same thing.

One final thought about  why I am skeptical about AI, I read an article in a tech blog which stated that AI will not help decrease or mitigate the effects of scams (including deep fakes, phishing and spam call, emails etc and identity theft). If nothing else, I had hoped AI would at the very least, help prevent these things from occurring. Well, maybe the law of unintended consequences might work here and someone will program some safeguards?

DD, we were college students around the same time, because I too was dipping my toe onto the World Wide Web when it was in its infancy. Or reading info on university wide intranet systems.

I believe the Godfathers of AI and their doomsday prophecies. I am by nature pessimistic (read: realistic), and having seen how automation hollowed out people's lives in places like West Virginia or Ohio, I very much fear what is coming down the pipe.

Descartes once said "I think, therefore I am" or something like that. Well, if big tech is going to do the thinking, or rather the journey of discovery of learning for me, why even get up in the morning? I feel so much personal accomplishment from.my work, from talking with and learning from people and books. I learned Japanese and Korean for five years -- just because I was fascinated by those places and wanted to.

A lot of examples you cite, and which I also have experienced, illustrate how tech has let us down almost as often as it aids us. And that is because in the rush to maximise profits, companies fire good people who could make their product or service so much better, and go further. Instead, firms have picked cost over quality: give them any old tech crap and let's force these square pegs to fit into round holes, and at least an app is churning this sh!t out which costs us nothing!

(Example: a year ago I took my parents to Paris on the Eurostar. The company inexplicably cancelled our train back to London, told my aged parents to download the app on their phones (!! Which they don't have) so they could rebook a train which would not be available for +2 days. They expected my parents to sleep in an unfamiliar and somewhat dangerous train station for two or three nights. Eurostar did not want to man the ticket booths in order to rebook their customers on earlier trains and in a more dignified way. These were expensive tickets, too. Anyway, leaving it all to AI triggered pandemonium in the Gare du Nord in Paris, to the point where French transport police had to be called in).

If AI cannot fix some of the basic phishing problems it originated in its early days, how can it solve more complex issues? And pre-empt future problems we haven't even predicted yet?

IA that US would be harshly criticised of it did what Chile did. The US and the West is in a position of weakness currently as it tries to secure expensive and necessary resources for the smooth running of its economies: labour, oil, gas, LITHIUM lol, etc. It is reliant on, say, Saudi goodwill for the oil, for example, at a time of shifting geopolitics. The Saudis have their own agenda, don't want the US lecturing them about human rights, and can leverage their position. Other emerged or emergent powers are offering them deals without certain preconditions. So that is the Saudi bargaining chip currently. 

But the US has some national resources, too. Not just oil and shale and lumber. And Wall Street (though I believe Wall Street may be in a vulnerable position these days if the dollar stops becoming the world's de facto cutrency). It has Silicon Valley. If, say, a certain search engine behometh were to be partly nationalised? Or a maker of smartphones and tablets? Or OpenAI? That would make crazy waves. Maybe scare the rest of tech to leave the US? Who knows. But it might also give the US government its own major bargaining chip on the world stage.

Obviously these are all hypotheses and I haven't thought all this through. Lol.

Two interesting articles on AI that made me view differently the whole political theatre we've been seeing of AI inventors saying its only a matter of time before AI makes us all apparently obselete. So just give up now, right? 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/lawyer-chatgpt-research-avianca-statement-ai-risk-openai-deepmind

The second article is linked from the first, and I especially liked her analysis. Who decides what constitutes 'rote work'? Some coder in Marin County?

https://margaretwertheim.substack.com/p/ai-as-symptom-and-dream

While the author doesn't explicitly mention this as a solution, she implicitly ("community control of resources") hints at a solution--- the nationalisation of too-powerful tech industries. Otherwise we risk slipping into feudal fiefdom reliant on tech-detrrmined UBI (basically a welfare handout). The point is not to hand sovereign tech behemoths control over our entire lives -- whether we work or not, whether we live or die in destitution and despair.

Recently, Chile nationalised its lithium industry. Because without lithium for batteries, tech cannot really exist. Machine learning cannot exist. Crypto mining cannot exist. Smartphones cannot function.

Instead of decrying this 'socialist' move, many countries are tendering offers to the Chilean government to be part of their industry.

Full nationalisation is not necessarily a cure-all, but here we are. FTR, I'm pretty much a moderate when it comes to many things economic and political. I believe in balance, yin/yang, all that stuff. But Chile's recent move got me thinking.

2 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

That's cute. I hope they don't feel compelled to transform their faces into funhouse mirrors like their mothers or Kim Zolciak's daughters. 

Re: RHOBH returning in November... Yeah, I'm excited to see what this new chapter brings. Of course I could be wrong, but I get the feeling the remaining Mean Girls club has been de-fanged without their lead hyena. I think Ozempic Kyle sees the audience favoring Garcelle and doesn't want to be on the receiving end of fans' ire. Meanwhile, play-out Dorit and Ozempic Erika are just happy to still be on the cast and collecting Bravo cheques. 

I hope not either! That pic takes me right back to when Milania and Antonia were 8-year old munchkins, squealing when the other showed up for a playdate.

The Coven De-Fanged is definitely the vibe I'm getting now that two malevolent spirits have been banished from the sister circle. (I have no proof to support this, but I still feel Rinna and Diana had a hand in Jax getting abused by bots on social media).

Kyle will rest a bit easier without Rinna breathing down her neck. At reunion, Garcelle & Sutton had Kyle's back the whole time. I have to imagine that Kyle will want to get closer to the incredibly popular Garcelle. She already has Sutton in her pocket.

Dorit has darkened her hair to look more like Natasha of Boris & Natasha fame. 

The real question will be Erika: can she move on without her co-enforcer, Hyena? Can she make it copacetic with everybody and join in some light-hearted nonsense? Or will she remain a miserable thug? The choice is hers. She has been hitting the Ozempic hard and found herself another absolutely ancient sugar daddy with a criminal record, so she must be in a better mood these days.... right?

38 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

Love it; can't wait; f__k the haters. 

LOL yeah I'll be watching too.

Speaking of the RHONJ kids...

looks like Antonia and Milania are close and went to each other's prom:

A Rinna-free RHOBH is a ways away (November), but I am willing it to do well. I know Housewives Twitter will be decrying BH as 'boring' without her mean-spiritedness and dirty tricks, but I'm hoping for some light-heartedness and contentious Annemarie giving drama.

13 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

NJ this past season is what happens when producers don't pull a OC season 9 fix.

Season 8 of OC.was fun...but it was starting to feel played out by the end of the season...with a revived Gretchen vs Tamra..and Alexis basically being iced out of a lot of events by the cast.  Producers saw how season 9 would not work with the cast in tact..and they dropped Alexis/Gretchen...with Lydia quitting.   Doing that helped usher in Shannon and Lizzie...and season 9 felt fresh.

NJ needs to either drop Teresa or Melissa.....and Aydin or Margaret..before it comes back another season.  Don't ignore it like Potomac seems to do

I think Marge & Jennifer have a bit more shelf-life than Melissa & Teresa. Melissa is a low-achiever who lucked out with +12 years on this show, thanks to her husband. 

I think Teresa would be far happier with a Bravo spin-off. I actually love watching Teresa and her family. If they ever wanted to reboot RHONJ with the kids -- Gia, Gabriella, Milania, Audriana, plus Antonia/Joey/Gio, plus Frankie, I'd be for it.

I'd keep Dolores because she knows everybody, past and present. Not that Dina would ever rejoin the show, but my God, what a rivalry that would be.

5 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

Watching RHONJ and then coming here to read y'all's thoughts about who should do what to who next season... it's exhausting. And it's too much chess playing and strategizing. It's Beverly Hills all over again.

We've gone from the days of "I'm not gonna film with Bethenny / Danielle Staub / the new girl, etc." to temporary alliances and marriage takedowns and coverups and yada yada yada. It's taken the fun out of what made these shows fun in the first place. 

Make no mistake, I'll be watching this reunion from start to finish. But this current cast cannot go on as is. And I wouldn't even want them to, as a viewer. Season 5 was already a stretch with Teresa trying to play nice-nice with Caroline, Kathy, etc. 

Meanwhile, Jennifer Aydin is so far up Teresa's hole... Rachel vs. Danielle is the poor man's version of newbies Kenya and Porsha going at each other during Season 5 of Atlanta.... Marge vs. Aydin has gotten too ugly and they'll never recover... 

Can we just retool this show around Dolores and her funky family living arrangements?  I dunno... 

If the new RHONY proves to be a success, I can almost see Bravo starting from scratch in the Garden State. 

Agree with everything you said. I will watch to the bitter end, and bitter it will be. However, this is the end of the road for this cast.

I don't really like the majority of the players anymore. I find Marge smugly unwatchable and Jennifer is so thirsty as to be unpalatable. Melissa really thinks she's doing something by merely showing up as the wicked queen (voiced by JLo) from a Pixar movie.

Budget Porsha vs Budget Kenya does nothing for me. Though I did feel for Danielle when the opposing couch smirked, condescended to and scoffed at her. It was so mean girls. Like they have anything better to offer? Like Jackie does?

Dolores's interview was the only one I was fully invested in. I just enjoy how honest in herself and her story she is.

All the women looked fantastic though, and special shout out to Dolores and Teresa's respective hair styling teams.

16 hours ago, kalbir said:

Lauralee clearly stacked her Cricket and Lifetime movie coins.

Gotta hand it to the Bells for their real estate game.

Real estate is the appreciating-value, return-on-your-investment gift that keeps on giving (I'm a bitter renter, LOL). The Bells bought at the top end of the market and just kept on acquiring. Their homes were all magnificent, but in different ways. Sad to see a lot of them get sold off in a way, as some of these estates were intimately connected with the Bells' tenures at Y&R and B&B. 

15 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

No doubt, she was paid a ton of money, didn’t have to interact with any of her four former co-stars nor the current show runner. I wouldn’t be surprised if she got Patricia Fields to do her personal wardrobe for the scenes lol. Kim Catrall is a true G.

The show was obviously willing to accept her terms so what does that say?

I'll take it, even though it will probably be a blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene. KC very likely asked for certain conditions to be met, including financial compensation, script approval et al., and she got them. 

Personally, I thought it was awful the way AJLT slyly trash-talked the character of Samanatha in season 1, and during promotions, the AJLT cast were all "Kim is never coming back" -- like it was their decision to fire Catrall or something.

What all this says is that HBO Max is sufficiently concerned about AJLT's longevity and SLs. The network wants a reason for fans to tune into season 2. It was an entertaining hate-watch in season 1, but that's not sustainable season-to-season. 

3 hours ago, Cheap21 said:

I dont care what anyone says. I enjoy Tamra and think she is the missing link to this show and her absence is partly why it went downhill fast

1,000%. I like her, and still cannot fathom why Bravo let her go for FOUR full seasons when it was clear how badly she was needed on the show.

Last year, I believe, TC was interviewed on Maurice Benard's State of Mind and spoke about his battle with addiction. He said he battled it through marriage and a baby in Ohio, and divorce. He'd moved back to LA for work, but his alcoholism had left him unemployable and basically homeless. How he hoped that by talking about it, he could battle this demon and return to a better place. Benard told him he was one of the finest actors on GH he'd seen, and he looked forward to seeing him back in the GH halls again one day. 

I am devastated that one of my fave soap actors way back when has experienced such a setback.  It sounds from the TMZ article like he may be homeless again.  I hope he finds help and support.

RHOC starts in a week. 

20 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

I really agree with the bold. I like Kandi a lot, but she has swept anything under the carpet that she doesn't like. I am a believer that if people want to be on these shows then they should be prepared for their lives to be exposed out in the open. Otherwise, Kandi is boring to me and I really don't want to have another season of Todd complaining about how busy she is. 

I disagree about Marlo though. I enjoy her. What I saw her doing with Drew was saying, 'why aren't you saying on camera that it's a shooting because that's what it was' because of her personal gripe with Kandi over her relative's death...Marlo is over the top when it comes to dealing with everything, but at least she's giving us something to watch. 

 

I'm not sure Bravo wanted to give Kandi the reins of power over on RHOA, but Kandi worked hard for that quasi-EP status! When season 10 introduced a largely non-black production team, Kandi advocated until she got a more representative crew. Kandi reportedly has a great law firm backing her (unlike Nene and Kim Zolciak) so when she and the lawyers negotiate with Bravo, she gets paid her worth. Kandi demands that Bravo treat her like a peer, and in return Bravo gets first pass at the TV projects she pitches.

However, it seems to me that since season 9 (when she saw off Phaedra, Carlos King, and any future SL detrimental to her image), Kandi has been able to call all the shots, and that absolute power creates injustices and resentment among co-workers. 

Like you, IA that these HWs must be prepared to deal with public scrutiny. Some things have to be, and will be, exposed. When you use your clout to sweep sh!t under the carpet, that's when you lose your audience. The 'cover-up' becomes almost worse than the crime.

I haven't seen the most recent episode so I reserve judgment on how I will view Marlo after watching it. But I take your point about Marlo keeping the drama going when Sheree, Kenya et al., are not really bringing it. Certainly, Marlo has left a few of her castmates triggered after Sunday's show:

On 5/24/2023 at 3:46 PM, Faulkner said:

Ratings for ATL are… not great so far. We’ll see if it trends up. I’m sure Bravo is spoiled by the massive VPR ratings.

I think that once Drew & Ralph's divorce starts to gather pace, ratings will go up. This is RHOA's 'unexpected scandal' moment which Bravo needs (and plans) to capitalise on. I haven't caught yesterday's episode yet, but thus far, Drew has been playing fake happy families on screen. This is the problem with Drew: she could be GREAT, but she's just good, because everyone's blind grandma can see that she is play-acting. Once she lets go of that, Drew could really go places on this show.

And this may be the problem with this season's cast. It is a good cast but it's not great by the standards of RHOA's golden era which lingers in the minds of the audience. Last season's reunion didn't have as much momentum going into this season as we've enjoyed in reunions past.

In a wider context, I think the show is still suffering from losing Porsha and firing Cynthia. Kenya has been curiously underpowered this season thus far. Sanya is ok but making classic newbie mistakes as she lets Sheree and Marlo use her against Kandi. And I agree with Kenya's latest Tweet: Marlo should not be a Real Housewife. For whatever reason, she's not up to it. She is doing too much and her acting is so poor. That tantrum she threw at Candiace's concert was cringe.

Despite all my criticism, i am actually really enjoying this season a lot. In addition to Drew's personal story percolating, another thing that has me intrigued is people going after Kandi and pointing out how she's swept stuff under the carpet. IMO this is long overdue. Kandi does great things for her community but she does have a few skeletons, and if others' get exposed, so should hers. Otherwise it is yet another season of Todd bitching about Kandi not having enough time for him.

Courtney is Yovanna 2.0. 

RHONJ Teresa's Getting Married was by far the best episode of this season, which I know isn't saying much. But having watched NJ since S1, it felt full circle-ish. In many ways, it would be a great launch for a spin-off show featuring Teresa and her blended family and friends. Her personality was so much lighter, happier and unguarded l this episode than it has been in years on RHONJ. What is also clear is how much she adores her dorters and they adore her. The Siempre Insieme embroided on her veil in reference to her parents was also poignant.

Putting my concerns about Red Flag Louie to one side for a moment, he seemed equally thrilled to be marrying her, and something about his family resembled Teresa's wider family circle back in the day.

Having followed the wedding clips on social media last year, I wish we could have seen more of Chanel Ayan, Phaedra, Ashley, Alexia, Kenya, Jill, Dorinda and the other RH guests. This could have been another RHUGT, lol 

I agree with @AMCHistory that Jennifer is coming across a strategic ally rather than friend -- although on social media, their families, including the kids, seem naturally very close and intertwined. 

Marge was the grey rain-cloud boohooing through the ceremony about Joe & Mel in order to secure more airtime. Lady, go get your mom (whom you banned from attending this wedding) and go join your BFFs without the cameras.

Joe & Melissa blitzing social media with their 'This is way better than a stoopid wedding!' tantrum was just as petty, tacky and gaslighty as you'd expect from those two jealous morons. They're the ones who chose not to come. 

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Ms. Tina Turner’s personal story is also instructive because it illustrates to women, and Black women that you can move past trauma and start anew, and after after 40+ at that! With all her talent, drive, appeal and grit, probably the way she was able to start over at a time when society used to want to discard women and ignore Black women- that’s a legacy every bit as important as her vast legacy she left through her musical and entertainment career. Bless her soul.

Tina Turner almost single-handedly (along with Joan Collins perhaps) represented 1980s femininity. The elegance of the smart 40+ or 50+ lady, in a spandex mini-dress, elegant high heels, gigantic geometric earrings and big hair.

Definitely Tina Turner's life story made women (and especially black women) believe that a second chance was possible and attainable for them, even after all else was lost. Tina Turner left her abusive husband after one particularly horrific beating in Dallas in 1976. She ran for her life to the Ramada Inn across the street with only the clothes on her back. The receptionist there called the police to help her, and also gave her a few bucks for a taxi ride to the airport. She didn't know it yet but she was already penniless as Ike had spent her earnings. She started again with absolutely nothing. Within 4 years, she had written her autobiography and re-invented herself as a solo artist -- as well as reinvented her music. She took a gamble on the electropop route, and her sound became the sound of that era.

With brains and hard work, Ms. Turner built a life of independence, security and new artistic achievements. Her songs electrify the listener to this day. Who doesn't get goose bumps when hearing the opening to Simply The Best, knowing what vocals will follow? Her story is incredibly uplifting and inspirational.

I watched the HBO documentary TINA about her life a year and a half ago. During the documentary, Ms. Turner made it clear that this would be the last time she wanted talk about her life -- mainly because it had been traumatic and painful. It was also clear that she was going into full retirement and wanted to enjoy her personal life to its utmost, in peaceful Switzerland with her longtime partner.

It is devastating to me that she couldn't have had longer to enjoy her glorious retirement, and her passing yesterday puts her words in that documentary in a somewhat different context now.

Nevertheless, even as I mourn this sad news, WHAT an inspiration Tina Turner was when I was growing up in the 80s. She seemed to embody that strong (but also deeply kind) 80s female. When I learned about what she had gone through with Ike Turner (the confidence she gained as a woman post-divorce because Ike broke her down physically, mentally and emotionally and made her feel truly worthless, a lack of self-esteem she wrestled with since childhood) -- my admiration for this tremendous human grew even more. An amazing talent and even more amazing person.

Deep breath. RHONJ reunion trailer.

On 5/17/2023 at 4:36 AM, DaytimeFan said:

NJ

Well, this season sucked. What a flop. 

I do not think we're seeing the fall of the House of Gorga. Not even slightly. Unless they totally botch the reunion I believe we'll see them return. This episode only reinforced that the relationship with Teresa is totally broken and it's not all their fault. Teresa and Louis (and Gia) are equally to blame. That Gia would call Joe and tell him they all think he could do better than Melissa, when it's clear the two of them are pretty devoted to each other...she's such a meddling cow. 

The whole Laura/Affair storyline is so lame that for the finale to be premised on it...Lord give me strength. 

Margaret annihilated Jennifer with the "Bill slept with a subordinate" line...Jennifer was literally screaming "She threw herself at him!" and frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog...Jennifer still doesn't get it. The affair is Bill's fault. She continues to make excuses for him and cannot move on.

Danielle was a total flop this season. It's clear production hired her for the potential of the brother storyline. 

Rachel is sane. I don't know if that will hurt her chances for a return, but it hasn't hurt Dolores whose the only one who had a 'good' season aside from Jennifer Fessler who should definitely be upgraded to fulltime. 

Jackie was a non-entity and I don't see her returning. 

Louis is a walking, talking, red flag. And that's who Teresa is dumb enough to marry. 

On 5/17/2023 at 5:02 PM, Gray Bunny said:

100% agreement on everything. 

Yeah, that comment Gia made really threw me.  We all know both parties are not innocent. But last night's episode shows Teresa is the same old person who stirs stuff up by letting her minions do the dirty work, and then runs away and says lame lines like "look at you / you're disgusting" when backed into a corner. And Louis is just creepy in a bad-tempered, ticking time bomb kinda way... I wouldn't feel safe around him. 

Danielle going after Margaret so hard was stupid. "Don't shoot the messenger" but you got your info from Jennifer, who along with Teresa got it from the infamous Laura.  And Danielle thinking the infamous Laura would have no reason to lie... first of all, you don't even know the woman or her motives (and it sounds like she was thirsty as hell to get on the show, so there's that). Danielle looked like a melting muppet last night. 

[Side note:  Danielle is someone you see Bravo pushing hard to make happen. She has gotten a lot of Greek chorus/her viewpoint talking head footage this season. By comparison, if this kind of push was happening over on OC with Gina, who is strongly disliked for some reason, then I could see why the audience would groan at Gina so hard.]

My goodness, Jennifer's reaction at Margaret's comment about Bill sleeping with a subordinate. Ooh, that came from the gut. But like you said, DaytimeFan, that is still misplaced anger that should go towards Bill. 

Despite dragging out the "rat" etc. comment issue, I do like Rachel overall. She's smart, level-headed, and has common sense and doesn't blow up so easily. I hope she gets another year. 

Jennifer Fessler is a fun side character "Friend of." Perhaps an upgrade next year, or perhaps another year as a friend, much like a Tanya on Atlanta before she got scared off. 

Jackie's presence fizzled out. No reason to return next year. I think the Househusbands will miss Evan though. 

 

I have always felt more endeared to Teresa over Melissa, by a long way -- but I can't really fault any of your logic, @DaytimeFan and @Gray Bunny. This episode was not a good look for Teresa. Clearly both sides are at fault -- and more importantly, it is in both sides' interests to torpedo what little familial relationship each had on national TV.

This season has been a mighty flop and reminded me of the worst of Season 5 -- before Bravo replaced 75% of the cast. We have House Teresa vs House Gorga spiralling into an incoherent mess. And the peripheral cast engaged in off-screen He Said-She Said reminiscent of S5 Penny/Johnny the Greek.

Why Teresa thought she'd revisit that tired old 'Melissa's cheating' trope and get a different outcome is crazy. Joe is never going to leave his wife for his sister and her fam'bly.

Melissa and Joe sat on this secret for 6 months. They knew they would never attend the wedding, but wanted their moment to announce it to the world. On any other RH franchise, this would be considered a boss move, but because I dislike the Gorgas, lol, I find it manipulative. They totally get off on playing victim to Teresa's 'crimes.'

Deluded Danielle really thought she did something. She did nothing -- except get used by Teresa, Jennifer, Margaret and Melissa. A minnow swimming in a shark tank. I had hopes for Staten Island, but Drita D'Avanzo she is not. 

Rachel Fuda stayed true to who she is, but im not sure this is a great future Real Housewife.

Margaret sets my teeth on edge. I just do not enjoy watching her curdled shtick. Jennifer is also getting poisoned by the same affliction.

Jackie got one passing jump-cut, showing how little production thinks of her contribution. Fessluh will undoubtedly replace her next season -- whenever that films.

Team Dolores, who proved this episode why I love her. She is the voice of reason and speaks to all sides without compromising herself in any way. Honestly, a Dolores or Eileen is so needed for balance on these shows -- otherwise you get SLC with everyone straining hard to have their dramatic moment.

Louie is a blistering sunburn of a red flag. OC Brooks was clearly a conman, but Louie is a wannabe cult leader with barely concealed anger (and possibly Adderall) issues. Teresa is his mark, and he has encircled her and her kids. I'm actually worried about where this might lead. Teresa went to prison declaring that her marriage with Joe Guidice was still dreamy. She's in this new relationship to the bitter end.