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It was great seeing the first two behind the scenes episodes. Getting into the show's lore was fascinating. I didn't realize they were actually going to have Duprees as the founders of this community, which I thought was wonderful. Tying the development into the real life father of the Paramount CEO was very touching. The amount of detail going into this is awesome, but I should have known by all the magazine covers in the photoshoot scenes of the preview featuring Chelsea and Chelsea/Dani that details weren't going to go overlooked. The Dupree wealth coming from property development is interesting. I am curious if that family business won't be lingering in the background. There are certainly opportunities to explore with Vernon being retired but not the settled down type returning to business as well as linking a property development business up with Vanessa McBride, the realtor. Orphey Gene's origin story is wonderful involving Val Jean's mother and that real life spot in the D.C. area that served as a hub for activism and community. Orphey Gene's not just being a meeting place for characters, but a cultural center for the community due to its history is just very smart. It washes away the potential class line issues that soap gathering hubs face based on the appeal of their clientele. Regarding Brad being white, I think the show was purposefully looking to integrate the family while also deliberating avoiding the typical daytime trope of a white man with a black woman. This left Martin as the sole choice. In addition, I think featuring an interracial couple may have been important to TPTB and, as stated earlier in this thread, Vanessa McBride was originally (at least according to what was posted online) intended to be a woman of color. I think Jon Lindstrum's character is the perfect addition as a casino owner, though I imagine the show would use the casino a resort with hotel, restaurants, and entertainment. In this state, it allows you to explore the possibility of Joey trying to lure Anita as a headliner (or if Anita turns him down pursuing Naomi) while also looking to purchase property in Fairmont Crest. I was watching some of the last episodes of "Generations" the other day and thinking about casino owner Jordan Hale and nightclub owner Peter Whitmore, I cannot help but wonder if Joey and Anita don't share a romantic past (though this would kind of ignore my earlier comment about the white man/black woman avoidance). It would certainly give Joey's desire to move into Fairmont Crest a bit more motivation. There is just so much possibility based on the foundations that we have gotten so far from Michele Val Jean. Creatively, this stuff is very strong.

I thought the initial contract cast seemed small. Maybe it still is, but it seems like there might be some additions that weren't revealed. Did we ever find out what Real Anderws secret project was? I am wondering if he might pop up here too if his new project hasn't been announced.

I know you and others have spoken of characters that you felt could have returned, but I often feel that so many of the characters feel like names and not people. This isn't a slight to the writing, but rather to the passage of time and how much of the CBS run is gone. Those 1980 episodes are a treat because its nice to see a continuous glimpse into the show. My point being I often feel like the characters who are always slated for a return needed a strong entrance story and not just a reliance on family ties. In the past few decades, soaps haven't been great at building connection between people beyond romantic (and even that has been lackluster in many cases). Jo's prominence seemed to depend on whoever was in charge that week during the NBC run. Cherrill gave her a lot, while the end of Hunt / Ellis seemed to feature her little, but did feature Stu. Tomlin gave Jo the Vargas tale and Stu had his romance with Barbara. Glynn tried to keep Stu and Jo in the thick of things with the Murder at Midnight Party and lots of family scenes for Stu and Warren's revenge involving Jo. I know they aren't well liked, but I thought Paul Avila Mayer and Stephanie Braxton were smart to bring on Sarah and bring back Danny to tie Jo and Stu to the young set especially as Liza and Suzi had aged out. I also thought Caldwell House was a great setting and it was nice having them back in the hospitality business. Tomlin making Jo in charge of Liberty House was probably good, but I've seen very little of it. With the Kendalls, there was such turnover with the characters due to the change in producers and writers. Cherrill created Steve and Michael, but it was Tomlin who revealed they were brothers (not sure if that was Cherrill's original intention) and brought on Lloyd and later T.R. I thought letting Michael fade out made sense given the trajectory of the character (his romance with Jenny) had come to an end. Personally, I would have had him pop in more as the moral compass, but that wasn't meant to be. Steve's departure was downright criminal given that he was Martin's biological son and the building of T.R. as the long lost Kendall daughter being raised by the Sentells. I think Glynn loses the plot for a bit by bringing in Alec and Chase, the twins. Pairing them with a McCleary was not the choice I would have made. I wonder if it would have been any better had the show explored the original angle; Adair being the mother of baby Elan that Liza and Travis had also been raising. I wonder if T.R. would have turned out to be someone else or if the Sentells would be raising two Kendalls. I think they might have been able to make that work if it was Tracey Whiting they were torn up over with Wendy playing spoiler. Though, it would ultimately still be three new young people being asked to carry a bulk of the story. I am not sure when Bunim was there. Was the late 1970s until 1981. I feel like Fred Bartholowmule was hired when the show was going to NBC as Bunim and Lemay had fought earlier in 1981 over a rape sequence that ended up playing out under Don Chastain. If that's the chase Bunim oversaw the Corringtons and Mulcahey was a script writer who was brought in by the Corringtons. Joanna Lee oversaw most of the initial arrival of the Kendalls (Michael, Steve, Lloyd, Estelle in flashbacks only). Ellen Barrett would be the one to introduce the McClearys (Hogan, Kate, Cagney, Adair, and family friend Justine Calvert) though Hogan may have been introduced in the final episodes of Lee. Barrett would expand the Kendalls to include T.R., Alec and Chase.

I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing in new families like the McClearys and the Kendalls because you cannot just have Jo's brood marry Stu's brood. There needed to be interlopers. The problem becomes when this all happened without tying back into the two family lines. For example, I tend to hear less complaints about the Sentell/Tourneurs and the Adamsons because almost every character introduced in those clans were introduced as love interests or conflict for Stu and Jo's family. Travis was linked to Liza, which made Travis' mother Liza's enemy. His uncle Martin became Jo's latest love interest. Lee becomes one of the exceptions to the rules as he mainly becomes involved with Sunny, who was initially brought in for Tom (I think). Ted was for Janet and Stephanie. Tod was for Wendy. Laine was conflict for Gary and Carolyn. The initial arrival of the Kendalls and the McClearys is fine in my opinion because Tomlin followed the Corringtons path of tying the new and the old. I think the biggest mistake was Jeanne Glynn's reign where she started doing things like Adair / Chase / Alec without any real ties (besides a brief attempt at Chase and Wendy at the start) and jumping into Cagney / Suzi / Justine rather than giving Suzi the third leg of the triangle (preferrably Brian) or fill Justine's role with the already established Kristin. Throw in Hogan / Sunny / Victoria and you got a real mess. Nothing was about the long term characters. The center of these scenarios were all newcomers. The only story with the central character in the center was Liza / Kentucky / Cord though none of that was cohesive enough to stick. Once the show was unbalanced there, it was hard to come back.

@Vee The Corringtons were only at "Search for Tomorrow" only once from about September, 1978 - May 8, 1980. They assumed the writing reigns from Henry Sleasar on August 14, 1978, so there work was probably in place within a couple weeks. Prior to this, they had done some work writing a sample projection for "Another World" with Paul Raunch as training. This is probably how the origins of "Texas" began. Once they leave, they never returned. There were six headwriters after the Corringtons left before the show went to NBC less than 2 years later. Two of which I don't think lasted more than two months (Lemay was interrupted by the Writers' Strike of 1981 and Millee Taggert's original run was nixed when NBC bought the show and P&G hired Hunt and Ellis to return and write the show).

I don't know about that. I know Conboy's removal was quick. Briefly, Wheeler was executive producer at "Guiding Light" and directing episodes of "As the World Turns." Maybe only for a week or maybe two. The show's numbers didn't collapse until Conboy was already out the door. I think there was a bit of a dip after the Maryanne Carrouthers hall of mirrors climax that the show didn't really recover from until maybe when Kriezman took over. Conboy probably was let go at the end of the first contract cycle of his second year having first worked in December, 2002, and his last episode being in mid-March, 2004. Weston's departure was announced in May, three months after Conboy was booted with Kreizman's work starting in early July. I thought the Weston/Wheeler period was decent as Wheeler took the material and shaped it into something more grounded. Some say Donna Swajeski was doctoring the scripts, but I found that to be a hard sell given the fact that the show lost much of its energy in the first few months of Kriezman before launching the big stories: Roger's death, Jonathan's seduction of Tammy, and some of the Dinah material started to spark.

@All My Shadows If you hadn't found this on your own already. Holloway was hired by Abbi. I think there were nice elements that Abbi did that you noted (the new opening, the sets including the Sterlings new home, and hiring Marcus later. I don't think all of the casting under her was spectacular. I find a lot of the young women she hired fairly bland with the exception of Dana Delaney. Given the parameters, I still think Abbi was a decent producer, but letting Tudi Wiggins go is the kind of mistake that makes me reconsider how great she would have been in the long run.

I think Tom as a coffee house owner would have worked. The show was missing that sort of common setting where characters could frequent that wasn't the classroom. There was 35 Maple Street that acted as a defacto dorm / community center, but something more traditional makes sense. The bowling alley was a great set, but it didn't scream college crowd the way I think the show tried to claim it did. Taggart and Guza played some Steffi / Frankie material to suggest that they might go there in the fall of 1993, but with several episodes Nixon had taken over the writing. I always wanted Steffi's secret father to be Dane Hammond because I felt that would have caused havoc. I think Sean could have been Matt Ford's father if they had kept him around long enough. The Reverend had been his stepfather so his biological father was a story thread that could have been explored.

No. Conboy was out the door by mid-March on screen let go at the end of February. He let go of Lindsey McKeon and then was let go himself hours (or maybe a day) later. Aubrey Dollar didn't resign and Kit Paquin was hired to assume the part of Marina. Everyone else was let go by Ellen Wheeler. Wheeler quickly dumped a bunch of people and the mass exodus started in May though Kit Paquin was dumped a little earlier (late April after only premiering in early March) and Lindsey McKeon's previously scheduled exit was earlier in March. Peter Simon refused to resign and was out in May. Troy Kurtis' Nico was fired and shipped off to New York to explore his music with Jesse and Drew (probably the last mentions of the characters). Deborah Zoe's Eden got caught up in the mob drama and had to turn evidence so the FBI faked her death in mid-to-late May. Everyone believed her dead including her fiance, Bill Lewis. Eden's death in the bombing was a big sweeps event that coincided with JER revealing everyone was alive on "Days of our Lives" after the serial killer plot. There were also a ton of minor recurring parts that had first appeared under Conboy that were dropped. Sophia Hayden's Lucia quietly stopped appearing in February. Carrie Nye's Caroline reached her natural conclusion in March, but returned for a one shot in either late March or April to resolve the story that had left Marah on the hook for Caroline's murder. Russ Anderson's Dr. Christopher Langham stopped appearing once the Caroline stuff had ended as Reva's second sight faded in April. The actress playing Darcy Matthews, the escort friend of Eden's who was dating (engaged?) to Frank, skipped town when the news of her past was about to come out. Vinnie Salerno, the mobster, was around through May, but I think came back for a one off in June or July, but I might be thinking of his return a year or two later. Mark Pinter's Brad Green, the shady Spaulding executive, was killed off in June during the climax of the Spaulding drug storyline. Tonja Walker, playing Brad's wife Marie, also stopped appearing in June. There was a brief run by Lauren B. Martin as Sheryl, a nurse at Cedars in a triangle with Bill and Tony for a couple days, who first appeared under Wheeler that was quickly dumped when Kriezman came in. Wheeler and Kriezman dumped Joey Lupo in September in set up fo the Jonathan's revenge and Phillip's death storylines. Then, Phillip was killed off to spark November sweeps. To clarify, Ramsey was briefly recurring in 2004. I want to say March-April 2004. Chappell returned from maternity leave in January with Olivia claiming her baby had died. Eventually, it was revealled Sam was watching Emma for Olivia while Olivia was trying to secure Emma's future and safety. When Emma's existence was revealed, Olivia went to live at the Spaulding mansion and Sam stopped appearing. I don't remember if he got an exit scene to be honest. I think Ramsey had started doing some independent work. In addition, he appeared on "Days of our Lives" in 2009 in a contract role, Owen Kent, who was the Kiriakis gardener on the Dimera payroll during the early stages of the Kiriakis / Dimera feud. Owen was quickly killed off after kidnapping and falling for Stephanie, who was engaged to Phillip at the time. Despite the quick exit, Ramsey was on contract. Gordon Thompson appeared as his mortician father. There were onscreen mentions of a twin brother. I assume the plan was to continue on with Ramsey as the twin brother, but instead they brought on Mark Hapka as Nathan. Phillip died in 2004. There was a pre-filmed scene of Alan and Phillip that was used in June, 2005, to resolve the murder mystery and reveal that Phillip was alive. This wasn't a return on Alexander's part, but Phillip did appear onscreen in his office at Spaulding. I believe it was revealed that Alan had setup a duplicate office set like he had for Annie. 2005 was the year that the show insisted on the paycut that Kim Zimmer fought them on. A bunch of people were dumped, or reduced to non-contract, in this period. Tony was killed off in March. Danny and Michelle left town in the fall after the brief Hope baby switch. Daniel Cosgrove also jumped ship. Laura Wright took an offer to go work at "General Hospital." Jerry ver Dorn was reduced to non-contract and immediately scooped to play Clint on "One Life to Live." I think Edmund was also written out at this point. Richie Costner I believe was contract as Jonathan's stepfather Nate/Alfred and I believe he also was given the boot by the fall. Doug Hutchison's Sebastian fled Springfield in July after trying to kidnap Lizzie, I think. Not a contract part, but Maureen Garrett, who had been appearing regularly again, was dropped in May when the show nixed a Spaulding / Lewis war which involved Alan selling Holly interest in Spaulding in exchange for interest for the Herald. Holly disappeared almost immediately after Blake learned of the business transaction.

Sam was a guest in 2004. He had returned when Olivia claimed Emma was dead. Sam was brought back to look after Emma while Olivia continued her charade. Eden August, Nico Castano, and Joey Lupo were also contract characters written out in 2004.

Throughout the 1960s, I believe Bruce was in education. First, he was at a private boys school and by the end of the decade he was a college president (I believe). I think the journalism angle was in the early 1970s. In December, 1978, the Sterlings purchase a large home from Professor Timothy MacCauley (Sheperd Strudwick). MacCauley was also a lawyer who would be helping Betsy during her divorce from Eliot in early 1979. I think the house was on the college campus, or the edge of it, and that is how they brought Bruce back into the fold, but I may be wrong as I feel like Bruce and Van may have been both offered their positions in the first week of Marcus in May, 1979. I don't think that Bruce had many career stories in the last few years when he was a reporter. I seem to recall the big story for him in 1978 is when he believed he was dying and he tried to pair up Van and Andrew Marriott. I think Upton may have briefly tested Bruce with shop owner Faith Manning, but that was very late in Upton's run before Cathi Abbi arrived so I don't think it went anywhere.

I'm not super knowledgeable about the details of "All My Children," but didn't Dimitri Marick basically usurp that role (sans the accent)? I've never liked Jeremy on "Loving" mostly because he just seems to be so extra, but also because he seems to replace Giff, who was intially such a vibrant character before Addie Walsh got a hold of him. Killing off Jeremy would have been wonderful. What would you like to have seen done with Tom?

In those early rough days, Mina Kolb's Aunt Mary was a highlight for me of the original version of "Generations" when it was trying to do drawing room drama fretting over things like Adam Marshall living with two white women, Jessica's scandalous past, and attempting to humiliate Ruth Marshall when she joined the Women's Art Council by bringing up Vivian's work as the Whitmores maid. I know Kolb's background was comedy so I can see why they shifted in that direction, but it is a shame. When the initial change is made, Marla Adams' Helen Mullens fills that role before they soften her with the domestic abuse angle, the dead daughter Karen, and the connection to the Reubens family. I grew up on the NBC daytime lineup so I can see why "Generations" made the changes it did and it was creatively more engaging as a result. I am not sure anyone could have matched JER after 1997, not even JER.

I think Kathy's place on the canvas made sense, if not Goulet herself. Was the Kathy / Stephanie friendship a new thing under the Corringtons? I imagine Kathy's work with John Wyatt had put Stephanie and Kathy at least in the same orbit. I believe the show briefly tried Erich and Wendy, before that was abandoned. The bulk of Kathy's return under the Corringtons though was a reunion with David, or the possibility of a reunion. I don't think that gets very far though because the Corringtons may be there until May, they are on auto-pilot by late March. I also have to wonder, myself, if I would have more interest in Allison if someone other than Breon Gorman was in the role.

1992 is such a mess of a year. Addie Walsh seemed to be testing out a long tease of Trucker / Stacey in the spring of 1992 and then someone revived that in October when Trucker had amnesia and thought he loved Stacey. Beck's contract should have been up around December, unless it was extended due to maternity leaves. I know Beck agreed to stay on so that Taggart had time to properly write her out. I thought the show was planning on going Stacey / Trucker / Trisha / Giff. Who wrote the second half of 1992 is a bit of a question. Walsh (and Ryder, I believe) are credied, but Paul Anthony Stewart stated to the press they had no headwriter in the summer of 1992. There was a wiki article about Haidee Granger, I believe, that stated Granger and Walsh had butted heads and that Walsh left in mid-1992, but that's not reflected in the credits. I am pretty positive that if Granger/Walsh did come to blows, it was over the Cooper / Selina story. You are probably right about the direction being Dinahlee / Clay / Stacey / Jeremy. I never would have considered Jeremy / Dinahlee because Dinahlee / Giff had such a strong (non-romantic) friendship that I just assumed they were crossing out Giff's names from scripts at that point and inserting Jeremy's name in (not ltierally of course). Dinahlee and Ava were both present, if I recall, at the airport when the Ceara wig was murdered. The gaslighting story was one of my least favorites, though I felt the ending was much more interesting than it had right to be. Parlato was a saving grace and made so much of the material more engaging than it should have been. This was humorous to me because Larkin Malloy stated he took the job as Clay because Walsh was writing and she had written so well for him as Kyle on "Guiding Light." Malloy's Clay never seemed to be able to figure out a personality that worked best for him. None of Jeremy's stories worked well for me. The best situation he had was under Nixon where he owned the ad agency and was dating Gwyn, though this was hardly Gwyn's best situation. Jeremy could easily have been replaced by someone who cost less money than LeClerc. The Tess / Jeremy stuff seemed to be abandoned when Nixon abandoned the Clay / Gwyn reunion in favor of Clay / Steffi / Cooper / Tess with Jeremy and Gwyn off on an island for a bit. Was LeClerc that much of a draw, though? I got the sense that LeClerc wasn't getting much work in his final year or so of "All My Children" and that he seemed happy to jump ship. His comments in 1991 were that he liked being on the "Loving" set because of the faster pace of filming a half hour. I think he also may have alluded to onset tensions at AMC, but I may have misintrepreted what he meant. Genie Francis was definitely a name and sending her to Corinth to work in the office at Alden University made sense because Fran Sears had arrived in the summer with the plan of refocusing AU. The first stage involved the arrival of Giff Bowman and the art studio where Dinahlee worked as a model while Trisha managed the Alden family art collection. Cox was a treasure and its a shame what they did to Giff within the span of a year. I still think Cox's Giff was sacrificed for LeClerc.

I watched another week in February, 1990. The highlight is the Daniel Reubens story. This week the angst was mostly with Maya and Adam, who has followed Maya and Daniel as they leave Chicago. Adam learns the "truth;" Maya claims she is leaving to go marry an old boyfriend. Adam is a mess afterwards and has a very nice conversation with Sharon Brown's Chantal who notes that Adam is very soulful. It's a rather accurate description of Kristoff St. John's performance. Adam also alludes to how he feels Maya and Doreen are alike in the way that they have lied to him. Daniel and Maya come back to Chicago so that Daniel can fight to reclaim his freedom leading to Maya finally telling Adam the entire truth with Adam commenting he isn't sure how he can trust her when she lies. Meanwhile, Adam still hasn't let Maya in that Doreen is carrying his child so.... There's nice movement in Kyle and Sam's relationship. There is slow set up for a longer mob tale with lots of background action involving Kyle and Nestor complainign about an informant (who down the line is tied to the Taylor mob organization that was after Peter and who's leader is Jordan's father). The cop shop stuff is effective because it is very comical. Less comical is Sam's realization of how dangerous Kyle's work is while she watches him strap on. It's a nice beat that can real make you see why she wasn't just choosing Kyle because in many ways Jordan was a safer, more stable, choice. A picture from a photo shoot taken the previous August comes out setting off a series of nice scenes. One includes the revelation that Kyle knows about Sam and Jason being together in Los Angeles, but it is not clear if Kyle knows all the details. I imagine this was set up for something that might never have happened (much like a future scene with Jessica and Jason later). Sam calls her mother (who appears to be out of town already). Sam nearly leaves the Hale Hotel to resume her modeling career, but Jordan offers her the spokesperson job he already promised Jessica. All's fair in love and the hotel business. Jessica and Jason are looking for the money that Aunt Mary has had. The big moment in their story this week is going to see Aunt Mary who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. During the visit, Mary assumes Jason is her brother Hugh and gives him some details that lead Jessica to think she knows where it is. The mother-son duo return to the Gardner mansion and cannot find the money. What is discovered by Jason is some paperwork surrounding a custody battle between Jessica and her father over Jason which Jessica proceeds to throw into the fire. I am curious what sort of intrigue they were trying to set up here. In the Jacksons story, Doreen and Martin go out for dinner to return to their house being ransacked and all of Doreen's jewelry being stolen, including her mother's wedding ring (the last thing Doreen has of her mother). The show plays the beat of Doreen feeling unsafe and Martin's rage but quickly shifts to Doreen realizing that this all too convenient given the money issues the Jacksons have and that Martin had insisted they go out to dinner. Doreen's intuition is correct and Martin is left scrambling trying to get the ring back. The show moves very well. It's a shame it couldn't maintain the momentum throughout the entire year.

I think the best crossover was Ceara's in October-November, 1991. The show very smartly tied Ceara's story to Matt's story as Matt had been falsely accused of raping a young woman that had actually had been raped by his preacher stepfather. Ceara and Jeremy were on the outs because of Ceara's fear of telling Jeremy about the incest that occured when she was younger brought about by her late father. The bond between Ceara and Matt was sweet; Francis and Wooddall had nice chemistry (big sister/little brother). The chemistry worked because Ally assumed Ceara wanted Matt and locked Ceara and Jeremy together so that Ceara would stay away from Matt. In the meantime, Jeremy had been Trisha's shoulder to cry on when she learned Trucker and Dinahlee had slept together while she was heavily pregnant. Pure speculation, I think the original plan for Jeremy's 1992 return was for Jeremy / Trisha. Jeremy / Stacey feels so underdeveloped. I think Jeremy arrives just as Richard Cox has been dumped as Giff Bowman and it was recently announced that Noelle Beck was leaving the show. Phoebe's 1993 crossover wasn't terrible as it was superficial and was slightly better than creating some snobby society character that wasn't revisited (though I did enjoy Susan Pratt's Elizabeth Barnes a year later).

Marcus moves quickly to rectify the issues that had been set in place during Jean Holloway's brief run. She wraps up the Bambi Brewster story and quickly shifts Van into the college setting teaching commerical art. Putting Van on the college campus opened up some story for the Sterlings in a series of interesting ways. I really hope one day we get to see some of the story of ex-con turned law student Steve Harbach having his sexual fantasies about Van. I wonder if Peters enjoyed that or was completely appalled. I think the younger characters introduced by Marcus were a mixed bag. Amy Russell is a good schemer and I like her partner in crime Joel. I think Steve is also interesting. I don't know what to think of Wes Osbourne because his character has such a terrible story to start (his romance with Gina Gaspero and her thinking she was pregnant when she wasn't). Lianne's sister Kelly and Judy Landers' Cheryl were introduced in January so it's hard to get a sense, but Kelly seems like a drip in that scene with Lianne. Cheryl seems to be a woman of mystery at this point so it's hard to figure what would have happened with her. I don't think Marcus' work on "Love of Life" is terribly originally as most of it was retreads of her plots on other shows. The rape plot involving Elliott and Betsy was sorta replay of Mark raping Iris when she conceived her daughter on "Love of Life." I think the Gina Gaspero plot was a variation on a story Marcus told with Patty Griffin on "Days of our Lives" but I think the pot brownie angle was new. The Tony has a child from his time on Vietnam was something Marcus had tried to do on both "Love is a Many Splendored Thing" with a returned Mia Elliott and with Chris Kositchek on "Days of our Lives." Also, the Amy Russell story was suppose to follow the projection that Marcus' Donna Craig story on "Days of our Lives" where Amy turned out not to be Bruce's daughter. Despite the replays, it seems the stories fit better onscreen in Rosehill than in Salem. Bruce was teaching law in the final year. I cannot remember if he was already practicing under Jean Holloway or if that was a move made by Marcus early in her run. I know Marcus put him at the college in her first week or so, but I cannot remember if he was working with Timothy MacCauley already or not. Bruce's law students included Amy, Joel, and Steve. I don't have much use for Ray Slater, a precursor to Sonny Corinthos. Under Holloway, they built an entire family around him with his parents and a younger brother and sister. Thankfully, Marcus cut most of them wihtin the first month but let Gina stick around to tell the younger set story. The show was cancelled very late in the game to the point that there may be unproduced outlines. Wikipedia (not the best source) states there 7, 315 episodes and Marcus has scripts thorugh 7,316 and outlines through 7, 320. Tudi Wiggins was leaving "Love of Life" had it continued. She stated so in the press. I don't think she and Cathi Abbi, the final LOL producer, had a good working relationship. It's a shame because I think Meg's final story with Tom / Lianne while she was faking paralysis was fine. I wonder what would have happened had the show continued. I suspect they could recast, but I also wouldn't have been surprised if the show pivoted to Tom / Lianne / Andrew as there was some setup between Andrew and Lianne while Tom and Meg were involved. Throw in an anchorless Mia possibly wanting to get back invovled with her ex-husband while Mia and Lianne's siblings were dating would have kept things messy. As I believe I said above, I have little use for Ray Slater. There were ways to make him work, but it was unnecessary. Pages back, I think I suggested they should have gotten ugly and repaired a pregnant Arlene with Tom (or maybe Ben?) while Ray sought custody by marrying Meg. Meg needed a stronger enemy than Lianne. I also had her going up against Amy Russell after Meg discovered that Amy wasn't Bruce's daughter. I think the cancellation notice came within four weeks of the show's final episode. They were still introducing new characters as late as the final ten episodes. I think Cheryl might have premiered in the last week. Kelly Wilson was only there for about three weeks.

@GymnastGuy Thanks for posting those episodes from 1980. I watched the first couple from 1980. The first one was very good. I suspect it may be a Patrick Mulcahey script. Stephanie Wyatt is the kind of character that Mulcahey can breathe life into with minimal effort. Using the custody battle outcome as motivation for Stephanie's seduction of Martin is a nice move. Stephanie's motives are devious, but I love the way that she just manipulates Martin through telling the truth and withholding important details. The inneudo filled conversation between those two were great. There is such an easy chemistry between Aniston and Cheatham. I really enjoy Stephanie's relationship with Steve Kendall years later and I wish there were more Stephanie / Martin conflict over Stephanie's involvement with Martin's newly discovered son. I thought Renata's comment about living in fantasies given her actress background was insighful. There seems to be a bit of chem testing between Renata and Marc D'Antoni, but I don't think Marc and Simon are around much longer. Is Simon still blind at this point or was his blindness cured? I can't recall. I am curious about the decision to end the Laine / Gary / Carolyn scenario because I suspect that the Corringtons are recycling elements of it with Renata / David / Kathy. Wasn't Carolyn involved with Marc because of the interest in his son? Similar to the set up between Renata and Marc? In addition, Kathy was brought back to revive that conflict for David, though I think the law firm was still very important to the show at this point in time so having an extra lawyer is nice. I wonder if the Corringtons purposely repeated it or were simply already creatively shot. The Italy stuff is not my cup of tea. I don't care about Prince Tony especially since it complicated Renata's already complicated situation. She was the illegitimate half-sister of Travis who had been an actress, novice nun, and a nurse who was now raped by an Italian prince, who dies at the hands of terrorists. It's just all too overheated. Bless Rod Arrants for playing it all with a straight face. The Boilermaker story isn't my favorite. The dynamic between Cissie and Lee is workable, but I don't really care about Beau. I had forgotten that Beau was trying to use the Inn as a front for gambling at one point as this was why he was trying to get Stu to sell. Stu's heart issues were earlier, correct? I'll be curious to see the summer 1980 episodes.

I watched a bit of January, 1990, today. I forgot how they managed to take Rob Donnelly, a character I found pointless and expendable in the first half of 1989 and gave him such a strong sense of purpose. In the aftermath of the scandal with Sam, his insta marriage to Jessica, and being accused of murdering his stepson Jason, Rob decides to find a new path investigating a piece of his own personal history. As a student, he had worked in a lab with Dr. Daniel Reubens, who had been investigating the drug Rioxin. Reuben's wife, Amy, had died shortly after taking it and Reubens lab work showed that it was dangerous. Rob as Daniel's champion is a great facet to the character, and I don't know why the show would even consider keeping Ian Oglivy's Reginald, who is supporting at best. The show minces no words when it comes to the Daniel Reubens story. Rob states that Daniel's investigation was about a black activist taking on white corporate America. In "archival" footage, Daniel states that Rioxin was released in areas dominated by people of color because Newton Labs were using the residents as guinea pigs. Throughout this, there are little beats too that I just couldn't imagine seeing today. As Daniel Davis, Reubens is running a community clinic out of the back side of Wilson & Friends, the bookstore that is housing (and hiding) Daniel and his daughter, Maya. In the clinic, Reubens treats Ana, a young mother, who has agreed to bring her son to Daniel for a flu vaccination and convinces her to bring her grandmother who is afraid of doctors because of the importance of the elderly being vacinated. When Daniel attempts to flee Chicago because Rob has started investigating, Ana returns to discuss the booster and learns Daniel is leaving and makes it clear that she too doesn't trust the medical community. I couldn't see anything like this playing out in the last twenty years of daytime. I haven't gotten there yet, but I am pretty sure it's revealed down the line that Kate Wilson, the "Wilson" of the bookstore, is a college classmate of Rob and possibly a former girlfriend. In any posiiton, Kate is a positioned as a potential love interest for Rob. It is very interconnected.. There is more Sam and Kyle shenangians (which I do enjoy) with bits of Jordan Hale thrown in. There was a snide little comment made by Sidney, bellhop who is friendly with Jessica and hates Sam, commenting that Mr. Hale never whisked him away to New York with a jaded bitterness that is just fun. I had forgotten all the side characters this show had like Lt. Nestor who Kyle calls Nasty and Ted Winters, who is Daniel's partner in the underground network that includes Kate. Gail Brinkley (Colleen Casey) returns for a moment to reveal that Aunt Mary's fortune is missing (Jason had promised it to his mother). Monique and Jason have been positioned into a supporting role at this point after their wedding which they really don't come back from. Doreen and Martin's marriage is struggling on two fronts: a) Doreen is pregnant by Adam and b) Martin's business dealings have left the Jacksons on the verge of bankruptcy. Fitts and Allen are great together. Sharon Brown's Chantal pops up to talk about how she is singing at a club. I think Chantal's singing was dropped when Debbi Morgan assumed the role. I wish Brown had been given more to do or a chance to play the Eric Royal story. Morgan is an incredible actress, but Brown wasn't really given a chance in the spotlight. I want to try to get to the housewarming bombing which is such an intense moment. I had forgotten it was at the end of February, not the start, so I have a few weeks to make it through before hitting it.

@EricMontreal22 Gilbert ends up kidnapping Ava and Sandy and dragging them off to some abandoned church which I think was in the middle of nowhere. While in this decrepit house of God, Sandy nearly dies and Gilbert ends up saving him. In the meantime, back in Corinth, Alex and Charles have tracked down Denise Nostrand, who had been the Hunter family caretaker, who revealed that she had taken Gilbert and told the family he had died, while telling Gilbert his family hadn't wanted him. It's Marian Seldes in a role that she gives her all to as the uncaring, unfeeling Denise. Gilbert starts to show signs that he isn't a terrible human being and Ava definitely starts to soften to him. I never really liked Ava and Jeremy; I thought LeClerc and Peluso had workable chemistry but there was not really a story to tell. I thought Gilbert and Ava MIGHT have a bit more possibilities. Eventually, Alex arrives at the church and shoots Gilbert in a moment of hostility when Gilbert really is not threatening Gilbert's life. There was a question of whether or not Alex went to far in shooting Gilbert which left Ava in the middle. By that point, I wasn't super thrilled with the rest of the canvas other than elements of the youth set (Cooper and Ally were fighting over Casey's drug problem impacting Tyler as I think Tyler got into Casey's camera case where he was keeping coke and Casey and Steffi appeared to be growing closer during a drug induced photo shoot where both of them got high). The Tess / Stacey / Buck hijinks were stupid. I remember not enjoying Danny at all. I don't think there was much Alden story from what I recall, but it's not a period I commited much too. My DVDs end at January, 1995, so I mostly know of the pre-murder stuff from what I've read, but honestly very little of the final months of "Loving" appeals to me. I tried watching the murders during COVID but they were just so plot heavy that I couldn't really find a reason to continue. The pre-murders B&E includes a lot of the early stages of Angie / Jacob and the set up of Bree and Lorraine Hawkins with the write out of Cooper and Casey (both actors contracts were up). There was also the exit of Elizabeth Mitchell's Dinahlee who runs off to tell Trucker she's pregnant again. Then there is the drug storyline ending in Casey's murder and the silly FBI agent Carolyn stuff.

I haven't watched the 1980 episodes yet, but I remember looking into the 1980 summaries a bit after deep diving into the 1981 summaries. From what I recall, there is some interesting set up with Beau Mitchell when he first arrived. I think he had previously known the Adamsons as he had carried on an affair with Ted's ex-wife. I don't think the Prince Antonio / Renata stuff is of any interest to me. The royalty element was recycled on "Texas" in a story that could have been better than it was. I thought Cissie seducing an impotent Lee was an interesting point, but that might be much later than January. I didn't think much of Allison Snowden as a complication for Travis / Liza, but I felt like there was some interesting stuff with her father, who owned a news agency, that was quickly swept up under the rug. I think there was a bit of a cast turnover late in 1979. Gary, Laine, and Carolyn are all dropped or leave about the same time. Then, the Mitchells arrive and Cathy returns with Erick and Doug. If I recall, Kathy's return seemed to be setting up complications for David and whoever his current romantic partner was (was it already Renata?). I remember reading the summaries and feeling like it was a rebuilding period cut short because of the Everything sorta comes to a halt in March, 1980, when it becomes clear the Corringtons are leaving. It feels like the Mitchell story is centered so that it can carry things over until Grover and Porterfield arrive in mid-to-late May. The exact date is definitely in this thread. From summaries, I thought there were interesting elements during Grover and Porterfield. Spence Langley posing as Brian Emerson is a story I would love to see. I think Wendy posing as Dawn and Spence posing as Brian as they fell for each other was intriguing. The fire at the condo complex that killed Renata seems rather dire, but also fascinating. I think Grover continued the Cissie pregnancy story. I'm not sure what the intentions of Dr. Jamie Larsen were, but I don't think that Grover planned for her to be a domestic terrorist as was revealed under Lemay or maybe under Upton. Grover headwrote with Norma Monty in January - February, 1992. I don't think she and Porterfield worked together as I think they were divorced by that point, but I could be wrong.

Tess was best when Agnes Nixon wrote her. A cunning career woman who's outer hard shell hid the pain of low self esteem that had resulted in her pre-Corinth life in an eating disorder during her days as a model and an abusive marriage to the very dangerous Dante Partou. Nixon's Tess could bed down with barely legal Cooper because she understood some of his disappointments in life and could unintentionally play into his past trauma. The brittle Tess of later days lacked finesse. She was painted with a narrow palette which limited her relatability and her longterm entertainment value. I think Curtis' death was plot driven. He was brought back as a red herring in Stacey's murder and then he was killed off so that he could be eliminated as a suspect. I think my other issue with "psycho" Curtis is that it was such a small part of Curtis' history on the show and it also negated the root cause (his experience with Dante). I think if they delved into how Curtis was trying to protect Stacey from Buck, who had screwed him over in Kuwait, there would have been more natural ways to explore Curtis' rationale. If I ever were to revive "Loving," it would open with Curtis Alden coming out of a multi year coma and revealing that the final year of "Loving" was a figment of his imagination. And his psychologist would be Lily Slater. I think "Loving" was smart to kill off the characters quietly in comparison to more higher profile deaths like Alice Frame Winthrop on "Another World" in the same period. My introduction to so much of "Loving" was the old RATS board postings. The very small online audience was pretty chill with all the ups and downs in 1992-1994, but the wheels started to come off when Brown and Essensten started even before the murders. I don't think they were loving "Loving" from what I recall.

I think there is an argument to be made for darkness throughout the show's run, but the show is barren physically and emotionally in those final months. I don't think a lot of those other stories cited can claim that. None of the telefilm plot carried over into the day to day, even though it should have. The original incest plot and even Jonathan's deal with the devil were embedded to the show's fabric, not the entire canvas, which is basically what the serial killer story becomes. In ending a series, the powers that be decimated its history and eliminated the hopes of the people who had watched by eliminating any hope of life continuing on in Corinth after the show had concluded. I found a lot of the writing choices during the serial killer were early of a systemic problem in daytime in the 1990s onward: the brief glint of energy from obliterating years of longterm story and characters without putting any effort into what was to come afterwards. If the show didn't downplay the grief, I think I might have been more interested. Or if the Lorraine / Charles stuff spilled into the City than maybe, but it doesn't. Lorraine arrives and is shifted elsewhere. I am glad Christine Tudor Newman got a chance to shine, but otherwise what a waste of a legacy. And, as much as I enjoy the final performance, it doesn't make any sense what was going on with Gwyn. There was some kind of split because part of her knew it and part of her didn't. God bless Tudor Newman for comitting to the material even while in Trisha drag. I think the "Loving" murders reached the audience it wanted to, and left the ones who had supported it in the dust. I think it was deemed okay because "Loving" didn't have a massive fanbase. If any other show ended that way with a similar tale,

I'd agree it was by design, but I struggled to find it worthwhile at my current age. In the past, I really enjoyed watching the scenes of Tracy paying a group of working actors to play her family. The concept is hysterical and the execution of drunk Lila, gay Edward, and twink Ned is well done, but at the end of the day it fails to capture the real tragedy of this: Tracy was cut off by her family. Watching Tracy's 1993 exit, this is such an emotional wound that there needed to be at least a beat or two covering the real pain that was attached to all of this. Not just it being ammo for Tracy to use to emotionally manipulate Gino. Everything I watch from late in the run is so catty and bitchy. Maybe watching it for a half-hour a day its entertaining, but I found watching stretches of episodes to be bleak. There was a need for humanity that was grossly missing. Or if it was present, it needed to be played up. And also, in my defense, my material gets very spot in the last six months.