Sapounopera

6 hours ago, Forever8 said:

Something tells me Audra created an identity to be suitable for corporate America. I could see her thinking perhaps her real surname is "too ethnic," and she was having a hard time getting hired until she decided to change it, and that's when Tucker came through. Maybe she tried to send money home to her working-class family but feeling she had turned her back on not only them but their culture, they told her to stop sending it if it meant she continued with this facade.

I wouldn't mind if eventually they brought on a younger brother or sister and perhaps a salt of the earth mother who has no problem reminding Audra where she comes from.

Y&R is in desperate need of something like that. 

Since we are trying to talk about star billing on soaps...

Wasn't Mary Page Keller supposed to get star billing on Another World if she chose to stay with the show? 

I wonder what Victoria Wyndham thought of that. 

8 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

Zuleyka Silver posted a clip of her audition tape:

 

Y&R is lucky enough to end up with women like Hilary, Imani and Audra, but they have no idea what to do with them because they are obsessed with a small group of characters. They end wasting them because Victoria, Phyllis, Abby and the rest of the gang.

I want to know more about Audra's past. Is that even her real name? Or did she make up a brand new persona to erase her blue-collar past? She could be a new Jill (going after Ashley's Tucker?) and bring some relatives to Genoa City. The show could use some not-80s filthy rich characters. 

I can understand someone like Erica Kane getting married as often as Elizabeth Taylor and Zsa Zsa Gabor. But this doesn't work for all soap characters and it shouldn't be the norm
When many people have been married more than 5-6 times on a show, it is time for several of them to go (or move to the backburner) and be replaced by new people.
 

Victor and Nikki on Y&R have been married like fifteen times each. 

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

So which new family addition/expansion did more long-term damage, Lewis or Cooper?

The Lewis family was introduced in the Allen Potter/Douglas Marland era and they were clearly influenced by Dallas but it was in the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era that they were expanded and elevated to a main family.

The Cooper family was introduced in the Joe Willmore/Pamela Long era but expanded in the Robert Calhoun/Nancy Curlee era and elevated to a main family in the JFP/Nancy Curlee era.

Both families remained until the end but I find whenever there is any discussion about GL losing its way during the final 25 years its almost always pinpointed back to storylines involving one of these two families.

In my eyes the Lewis family and the Reva obsession ruined GL for me.  Prior to them it was a very classy show and all of the sudden beloved characters were leaving and tacky, loud, immoral people were taking their place. They even turned the notorious Vanessa Chamberlain into a Sue Ellen mess. 

The Coopers were ok at first. Nadine was fun, Harley was a charismatic young girl (the first successful one since Beth), Frank was the typical 80s soap hunk, Buzz was Buzz. They overstayed their welcome and they morphed into something else, but the Lewis clan's impact was far more obvious. 

7 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

From your keyboard to the soap gods ears!

 

What do we see here? 

Carly started out as a fascinated character and ended up a Real Housewife of New Jersey.

Angela was all about the land. I have read somewhere that she was Scarlet O'Hara grown old and I really liked that comparison. 

On 7/31/2023 at 6:26 PM, Donna L. Bridges said:

Yeah, DAYS wanted Tom for that Calista Flockheart character story & Tom's boss wouldn't let him take off his regular job, whatever that is, to do it. Bummer. 

What do you know, Donnatella was right again.

I didn't remember any of this either and I was about to google how CF was connected to Days. 

I always saw Marland's Stacey as Loving's Hilary Bauer. She was never meant to be that important. Unless they did  a story where Lily has to marry a paralyzed Curtis and Jack gets married to her. Something like that.  

Jack Forbes the adopted heir, shared many story similarities with Phillip Spaulding. Lily was his Beth Raines and both incest stories took place in 1983.

One of the problems with Merrill was that she was not a very interesting character. She was cheating on a nice guy, but we were supposed to root for her. Why? She was ruining another woman's family. Different writing or casting, might have made her work. Susan Keith might have made a better Merrill. 

I didn't like how the Forbes family was replaced by Clay's. Ann's alcoholism story didn't need Dane, it could be done with Roger. Shannon Eubanks was great as regal Ann, Callan White was a brand new person. Same goes for the Donovan brothers recasts. 

Nada Rowland would have been a great Rose with Ava being a Donovan cousin. 

I hated Lorna as a tortured heroine. They even gave her a spoiled stepdaughter after two or three years. 

Edy Lester had potential with Doug, but they made things too dark too soon. 

On 7/29/2023 at 12:39 AM, dc11786 said:

@Sapounopera There are probably more detailed responses in this thread from around 2019/2020 when @EricMontreal22 first discovered the bible. Actually, you commented on some of them I believe. It's been a while, but I will share what I recall. 

The story was originally set in a town called Carthage. The bible is written with three sections in mind: (1) the Jack & Lily romance with the Slater family secrets, (2) the affair between Roger and Merrill, and (3) Mike's struggles to cope with the events that occured in Vietnam. There is a character list towards the beginning that includes Jake Vochek (the father of Merrill, Noreen, and Jim as well as Patrick Donovan's army buddy/childhood friend) and Jeff Turner (the son of psychiatrist Dr. Ron Turner and Jack Forbes' best friend). Gwyneth and Clayton Alden are included in the list with a note that they would appear in Year 2. The bible itself covers story starting with the first daytime episode and going through the cliffhanger before the August, 1984, Olympics. 

The Slater family section spent a significant amount of time describing the backstory of Garth and June's marriage including the fact that Garth had knocked June up and had to marry her, only for her to miscarry the child. June later gave birth to a stillborn son after Lily I believe which led to severe depression and alcoholism. Garth had felt that June had stunted his career advancement. There was also a significant amount of space devoted to research on incest that Nixon had done. The research section reads like a pitch to sell the incest story, but also to provide ways to tell the story without a sexual aspect if necessary. Nixon outlines how incest can just be an inappropriate relationship between a parent and a child, which to me suggests that this research may have been done when she was planning the initial Nina and Palmer Cortlandt story. 

Jack and Lily's romance was slightly different than what played out onscreen. Lily's multiple personalities were not a story element in the bible, which meant that there was no romance between Lily and Curtis. Jack and Lily were to go on the run for a significant amount of time and build a life together in their new location. They did a much more abbreviated version of this with Jack and Lily running off together shortly before Garth's murder. 

Jack was still adopted. His mother was still a friend of Ann's from college, but there was no reference to who Jack's father was. There was animosity between Lorna and Jack as Lorna felt Jack was an outsider. Lorna was originally set to become involved with Jeff Turner in an interracial story that was just going to be about two young people falling in love without consideration of race. There was also a hint that Lorna would one day be drawn to Doug Donovan, but this was never completely sketched out. Stacey is mentioned as Lily's friend and pseudo romantic rival. There is a suggestion that Stacey might be manipulative in trying to gain Jack for herself, but that she would probably end up with Curtis for a bit as well. Stacey wasn't mentioned much, but I believe that she and Lily were suppose to be recent high school graduates. 

When Jack went on trial, June was going to go into a catatonic state of some sort and when she was at a sanitarium, Merrill Vochek would visit her. On the Friday before the Olympics, June was suppose to remember what happened the night of Garth's murder leaving the audience waiting until the Olympics were over in order to stay tuned. 

In the second major story, there was a very vague outline of what the story between Roger and Merrill was suppose to be about. The description of their emotional state was the main thrust and their motivations for the affair. Merrill was suppose to be someone who was deeply disturbed by her mother's untimely death during childbirth with her or another baby that didn't live; I seem to recall there being a bizarre number of miscarriages mentioned in the bible. Anyway, due to this, Merrill feared chidbirth. She was more career driven than romance driven. The implication, as I recall, was that she and Doug had been together a long time and that was what was expected of them, where as her relationship with Roger was more about lust. Merrill and Roger were not endgame. Roger was suppose to be a step in her romantic journey. Doug was deeply underdeveloped. All I recall is that there was a reference to a scene that was going to occur in the classroom where Doug basically admitted how joyful he was because he was getting married. Of course, he wouldn't get married. Ann was mentioned on a handful of occassions, and nothing to give a sense she was anything other than an obstacle in Merrill and Roger's romance. In the end, though, the larger obstacle would have been Merrill's resistance to commit to any man. Jim is presented as a moral compass for Merrill which she may or may not listen to. Roger's political motivations are discussed. Again, nothing to suggest any major plot movement, which is why I think Nixon needed to write the first year. I imagine it was only underdeveloped on paper and not in her own head, but maybe I'm being too generous. 

Lorna was also a thorn in Merrill and Roger's romance, which I think played out a little bit on screen, but not as much as I felt was written about in the bible. 

In the final story, Mike's Vietnam flashbacks were discussed. The 4th of July Speech was discussed, but I think in one of the few mentions in the bible, Jake Vochek was the one to present the award to his best friend's son. Mike refused to see Dr. Turner, a fellow Vietnam vet, and ended up involved in the police force where he was paired with an African American partner, who's name I don't recall, who would have also been a Vietnam vet. This partner on the force never materialized onscreen. Instead, the character may have been the basis for Mike's buddy Gage, who died in Vietnam and haunted Mike in the his memories. Similarly, Jeff Turner, Lorna's beau and Jack's buddy, became Tony Perrilli. 

Rita Mae was suppose to befriend Noreen and start sleeping with Mike. She was also going to carry on bit with Curtis Alden. There was a bit of a triangle among the three of them which escalated into a violent confrontation and would later be fueled by Patrick Donovan's death. Patrick was suppose to chase down the local campus drug dealers and die of a heart attack. This was going to haunt Mike as he was supposed to be on duty that night, but wasn't (he may have even been carrying on with Rita Mae). Billy was sort of a non-figure as he was impotent and refused to acknowledge the issue, from what I remember.  

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I didn't remember any of this. Too bad that they gave up on their original ideas so soon. 

Thank you so much @DRW50!

7 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

You can take it to the bank. Once a week they do something to foul things up!!

Also 3rd day in a row written by scab writers. Unknown ones. The good doc, Montague, is practically twirling a mustache. I'm horrified at Sasha's story. I would have sent her on a 25-city tour as the Face of Deception illustrating that vibrator or whatever it is. 

Sasha today reminded me of being in the hospital for a week in May 2021 when for 2 days I could not sleep & I just cried nonstop. I had a doc who told me he was going to hit me if I didn't go to sleep. That was so helpful. I have Parkinsons & I had begun to have Parkinsons hallucinations & until we got some meds changed & titrated it was sheer misery.

Loved Carly at Kelly's & her line about why would she give it up, great dialogue. Nina so typically thought wrong so said wrong. Seemed like Carly was doing everything. No employees?!! But she did refer to a waitress. 

NuGeorgie did not look like her picture. But I really love Leo. James did a perfect pout. I predict NuGeorgie & James are soon going to love not sharing a room!

I thought NuMolly sounded youthful & her voice reminds me of Haley. Gladys keeping Maxie from seeing Sasha? That woman is going down!

Going back to Wednesday, Mo & Maura were just divine. Give them 20 minutes. Say anything & they make it work. 

Yes, to Magic Gran Felicia. 

@carolineg  Brooke was a very effective crier. But the set-up, premise & predictability of the Curtis POV is just so awful. My 1st goals for Curtis was dead. My 2nd was mute. I see this dragging on, endlessly. 

Thank you for sharing your story Donnatella 

8 hours ago, dc11786 said:

The bible left a lot of characters significantly underdeveloped which is why characters like Rita Mae, who was developed, end up falling by the wayside. Ann Forbes basically assumes the role of several characters by taking up with Mike Donovan and also developing a drinking problem (which was originally slated for Gwyneth when she arrived in Year 2 with Clay). There is almost nothing about Ann in the bible as she is merely a complication to Merrill and Roger's happiness, but even Roger and Merrill were never intended to be end game. Roger was suppose to just be one of the many unavailable men that Merrill would find herself drawn to because she was afraid of suffering her mother's fate of dying in childbirth. 

I had no idea there is info about a LOVING bible. Can you share more things about it, or can we read it somewhere?

So Clay and Gwyneth were part of the show's original concept? I thought that they were brought so soon because Roger and Ann didn't work out. Shocked to read about Merrill. I always thought that she was the show's heroine at first and the idea of her cheating on her nice boyfriend while ruining another woman's happiness...

Team Charles Bateman, Linda Gibboney and Ava Lazar all the way. 

Ava's Santana could have been the show's star. They gave up on her way too soon. 

13 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

What does not make sense is how Bobbie sold it to Carly, when she didn't even own it in May.

Perhaps that is why she sold it to her for one dollar.

I can't see Laura Sisk's Carly run Kelly's. 

 Ι can understand DD's point of view, but in my eyes Paul missing in action isn't that important. 

The real issue with the show's synthesis is that Jill (whom we have seen since day one and who had the most iconic story) is seen from time to time as a random aunt.

Paul was married to Christine -who is not around and who was not connected to anybody either. He was never father material. If I could get some veterans back, I'd try to get Jill and Dru.  

14 hours ago, carolineg said:

  It's funny though because did anyone really even care about Molly before HP's issues and these recasts?  I didn't.   

Nobody did, but now people act like GH is trying to recast Laura.  

9 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I would like to know how Augusta Dabney felt playing Isabelle when she returned in 1994. Both she and the writers tried to find a common ground between the comforting matriarch she originally played and the meddling manipulator that had developed in her absence. I felt a little bad watching Clay being cruel to Dabney's Isabelle over the Tim Sullivan stuff because she hadn't gotten to play any of that story. 

I'd also have loved to seen what would have happened with the character if Meg Mundy had stayed with the show. 

I saw Dabney as a rich Alice Horton.

Celeste Holm was more like Stephanie Forrester and Patricia Barry more like Phoebe Wallingford from the episodes I have seen online.

Judging from her Mona Croft, Mundy would have been amazing with a strong presence.

On 7/21/2023 at 7:09 PM, DRW50 said:

For some reason I think I remember this question being asked over the years and the response was they weren't the same place, just a similar looking set. But I don't know.

Yeah, it was probably me every single time. For some reason the history of several Springfield sets confuses me. Don't ask me why I kept thinking that Ross bought the cottage in the Wexler residence for his new bride Carrie. (And that Alan ended up with the Wexler mansion after Amanda left town). Thanks for the answer!
 

On 7/22/2023 at 4:47 AM, Spoon said:

Yes, Nola sold them Company after the final time that Meals and Wheels burned down.

 

Thanks for the answer! Nola should have kept Company, or at least should have stayed in Springfield running the boarding house.

45 minutes ago, TEdgeofNight said:

YES to Kim Zimmer and speaking out against catty Valentini. He's out lasted his petty grievances.  Love Kim and her candidness. Frank puts his ego above what is best for the show. GH sucks and Frank has to go. The ratings suck. There ARE other producers out there who can bring GH under budget. 

I am afraid that Frank Valentini is the only reason that GH is not comatose like the other soaps. GH is the only soap where things are happening. GH is not perfect, but it is not dead soap walking like B&B or Y&R, or just weird and "campy" like Days. 

BTW Kim Zimmer forgets that she didn't even have a dressing room on GL and had to change in gas station toilets. 

I guess she auditioned for Molly and they liked her. All these girls on GH look like sisters.

Were the Spaulding offices located in the same building as Towers? 

I am always confused with GL sets. Ross's house was supposed to be the same place Ben and Amanda stayed?

Alan and Hope got a new house while they were married. Was it the old Wexler house?

Were the Cooper supposed to be living in the Reardon house in the later years?