P.J.

As much as i like to rag on KZ/Reva---I don't think TIIC really had anyone to "pass the baton off too", so to speak. Their younger leads kept leaving. By 2000, the character most like what Reva had been was Dinah, and she was already gone. Harley and Blake were reformed (Blake is basically a walking hormone of idiot choices), Beth was never the dynamic kind of character Reva had been (at least as played by BC). Michelle is the legacy ingenue, and while BJL is great in the role, I think everyone knew she was not sticking around. I guess there's Cassie, but they were never going to let her be as messy as Reva had been, she already had a kid when she came on the show. (Not that these women didn't have fans or act their asses off with what they were given.) So maybe...it's not all KZ's doing that she kept getting the over-the-top stories. Yeah, she wanted to be front and center. But I also don't think the show wanted to let Reva age either. (or at least write her as a sick old lady.) Kind of the same way they kept de-aging Susan/Daisy and let Harley keep making the same stupid romance mistakes she'd been making since her 20's. I swear, I think Reva only got cancer in '06 ish because it was literally the last resort, and TIIC were going to make sure that KZ understood Reva could die with a keystroke.

Well, her punishment was usually getting treated like dirt by the next guy. She screws over Phillip and jumps to A-M, both while dealing with Gary's obsessive, spiraling plots, which at different times nearly cost both men their lives. A-M then uses her, which, well, is shitty, but kinda justified. Maybe her leaving Ben is supposed to be growth, but she just expects Ross to forgive and forget. I remember it all, so it'll be interesting to see if they address whether or not there's lingering disagreements directed at Ross over Dinah's escape. Even if he didn't help Van, I don't think he wanted his kid behind bars either and believed that it was accidental.

Dinah is usually mad at Vanessa. Or at least unwilling to listen to anything Van has to say. I think when Dinah returned in '04, we found out that Dinah had been imprisoned most of the time she'd been out of town. That she had never been pregnant (the excuse that sends Van out of town), and Van didn't know where she was a lot of the time. I don't know if the later regime even explained what Vanessa knew, or they just skipped it, and the viewers were left to fill in the blanks. When Dinah returned, she tries to be Cassie's surrogate, which both Ross and Van try to stop. After Van returns to town (after Ross' death), it's pretty much one long, string of Vanessa trying to help her daughter, Dinah refusing that help and then blowing up at Van when her life blows up anyway. The big thing was Dinah getting shot, which Vanessa ultimately blames on &&&& because he got involved with the loanshark and Dinah catches a bullet from it. They actually divorce because of it, although they don't tell Dinah until she's along in her recovery.

@Spoon spoiler unless you mean Harley, then nevermind. I don't remember. @alwaysAMC yeah, Dinah pretty much picks up where WM left off. But more unlikeable. Or less motivated and heavily plot-pointed.

It's part of the problem after watching for a long period of time, you know where everyone's skeletons are buried. It's part of the reason I got so fed up with Reva by the end. (well, long before the end, but at the end, I couldn't watch her without going out of my mind. She does crap to Lizzie (long story), but then everyone's supposed to feel sorry for the fact she's briefly considered a murder suspect thanks to Dinah (a longer story).)

While I get that Vanessa was wrong, and that Hart was Blake's brother...there are times Blake had a lot of nerve being angry at other people's lies. There was not enough Febreze *yes, product placement* in the world to cover the stench of her affair with Ben, and on top of how she'd lied for months about the paternity of her children. Vanessa made a snap decision, and chose to go to jail. I can't remember Blake ever doing anything but crying and moaning apologies. And surely there was a felony or a dozen in her list of crap. Oh, and WTF? Reva had those beginning years with Marah. Sure, it was only until Marah was about 4/5, but she still had them. But any excuse to get laid, I guess.

Yeah, I think it's time to ship Dana/Leslie off to jail. I'm tired of her antics, I was never that impressed by her cartoonish need for revenge, and she really doesn't have a purpose other than hurling annoying taunts. I'd much rather see Anastasia challenge the Duprees for a while. I'm all for Mother Anita, the proud strong life force of her family. Can we dial back on the St Anita talk though? The idea that even 24 hours later, all of those breast cancer awareness/reactions could be organized is ridiculous. Speaking of Anatasia, while she's a pain, her horror at Anita's "tail-shaking" past is hilarious. Because every EGOT winner (which I swear they said Anita was; because BTG is never subtle when praising the Duprees) never "shook" anything. I get Kat's frustration with her life. Even if Tomas isn't worth spit, he's what she's got. Chelsea literally fell in love in two days, and somehow made it work (well, that's what Kat perceives anyway.) Even her mom's got two hotties on the hook. I don't really mind that she took it out on Chelsea. Chelsea sort of annoys me. I wanted to slap those ridiculous butterfly earrings off her this week. Kat needs a new man--a guy she's really in to. Tomas ain't it.

I know Brian Gaskill had some early success at AMC, but his CBS roles were lackluster to say the least. I'm not even sure why they bothered bringing him on as Dylan. For Susan's (or is she Daisy again at this point? I can never remember.) abortion? The only place I really see a scene with him is I think after one of Bill's injuries put him in the hospital. The rest I must FF if rewatching.

ICAM. Some writer chose to invent Reva/Jon issues instead of dealing with any of the other kids she'd abandoned. I'd have much rather seen Reva dealing with Dylan's sudden recklessness (hey, Dinah's approximately the same age...and had her mother worrying over her....) than Tom Pelphrey and his scream-acting.

Well, I'm not exactly sure I needed Bill and Michelle (at least the adult versions) to end up together, the fact that they weren't the building blocks of another incarnation of the Four Musketeers sucked. Curlee set it up perfectly, and succeeding writers just either misused or ignored it. That Ben was killed off was atrocious. And it stuns me that Josh and Reva's kids are so meh and largely absent during the shows final years. Meanwhile, Marina is shoved into inappropriate relationships with her godfather Mallet and her near-father AM.

No, she didn't. I think she had a brief return after Max's death, but Remy moved on to Christina (played by Karla Mosley now on BTG) in the final months. I think the writers tried to recreate a Holly/Roger/Blake vibe with Olivia/Jeff/Ava, and of course, it failed miserably.

I know newbies are less expensive, and at the end, especially budget-friendly, but lord....keeping the likes of Ava Peralta or Remy or Ashleigh relevant was painful. Just because Ava was the rotten kid of two rotten parents didn't mean you needed to keep her around.

I also think Roger especially envied men who had close relationships with their children. He wanted that for himself, but he could never really achieve it. Even in his relationship with Blake, there's a foundational mistrust.

I guess they didn't need Hart, but how long could you keep playing Roger interfering in Blake's life? And what do you do with him when Blake (even temporarily) broke free of his influence? I understand the reservations about Hart, as written, and is ultimately little more than a footnote in Springfield history. But (and I know it's sexist), I do think it's a little sad that, theoretically, there's no one carrying the name Thorpe in Springfield...even if Roger ended up having five grandchildren on the show.

I recall nothing of Gus---other than I found him annoying and thought he ruined Harley. Is Beth looking to [!@#$%^&*] him? Is she screwing Harley over because she's getting off on it? At Alan's bidding? I don't know.

LOL...in the dictionary beside "meh", is a pic of Nancy St. Alban. Y'know, because i just had to WTF about a Gus/Beth scene, whatever's going on....it's disturbing to see Beth slither around him like a snake.

I don't remember if it was explained or not, but Robert would be a heck of a lot closer to Bert than Bernadette (or whatever Rick and Beth tried to name that kid.) Yeah, Bizzie was cute. And God knows Marcy Rylan did the Lord's work after Crystal Hunt nearly destroyed the character.

I didn't know that. It makes me happy though. When I watch the newer stuff, I never seem to find the credits.

I could vaguely remember something like that. At least "Little Billy" had some dignity. :)

Pretty sure Lizzie was named after Beth. Why? SMH. Ben's original last name was Stoddard. I don't think Fletch adopted him until after Maeve's death. I think Marina was named after Eleni's grandmother. Daisy was for the flowers that Dylan gave Harley. Ross and Blake's daughter was Clarissa. (which is a horrible name, sorry.) Oh, and lets' not forget Rocky Cooper. Even though every one else did. Not sure where Olivia got Emma from. And Francesca, for the sperm donor.

No, you are not dreaming Josh becoming a preacher for like five seconds before he's tired of listening to people's problems. Oh, and there was something about Cassie's actions that played into him moving on. Gee....wife number *5 (I think, I'm blanking on whether or not he and Annie were legally married), the ex-stripper and ex-Princess, and wife #2's sister, pissed people off somehow. Who'd a thunk it? BILLY WAS AWESOME. :) At times, the way he'd talk people into things, he came off like a tent revival preacher himself.

I'm amazed it was Billy who picked the name. I guess I assumed it was something Bridget suggested to Nadine. And, really....how did that work out? I know there would've been several workarounds for anyone (hey...did you know X really knew Y back in the day and X is (insert Child Z) godfather/godmother? But is there ever a writing regime that impressed you with their creativity after Curlee? Not if Susan/Daisy's introduction is any example.

Well....Van was back, but not full time. I sure didn't need ****, sorry. But he's kind of inoffensive enough, considering. And the Billy/Lizzie friendship worked on so many levels. It made Lizzie likeable as far as I'm concerned. It gives Billy an outlet for all his protectiveness. And you can tell he's trying to fix his own past in a way.

Well, Billy may have picked that name, but it was Hart's true first name. It was one of those "noncoincidence coincidences". And Hart had been named after his grandfather, Peter. I don't know why it's so prevalent on GL. I understand Billy wanting his son named after him and his father. Sometimes (like with Stacey), it's a manipulation. Sometimes it's a nod to the audience, like Vanessa naming her kid Maureen, or Jenna with Henry (Coop). But sometimes it just feels like the writing regime du jour didn't want to offend anyone. (like OH, we know history---we're trying to name the kid after Bert.) Oh, yeah. And when Ross and Vanessa tried warning Cassie that Dinah wasn't stable enough to be a responsible surrogate, she got on her high horse about it. (I guess Princesses really can stomp their feet and get their way...RME) I do love me some Danny Cosgrove. Thank goodness he rescued the role. I think part of the reason they kept Bill around was the less than stellar Shaynes that were cast. but how many of those kids would the audience connect to? And who (assuming they'd be around 16 at the time) has some kind of relative in town to supervise them? Do you really want to stick Ross in a third "some one's got to raise this kid" story? (or fourth, if you count how he was essentially Phillip's father figure for a number of years) Was Holly ever truly stable enough to raise a child? Giving Lujack a child would've been interesting, but a teen Spaulding? I do love the idea of bringing Stacey. She should've come back with Nola. If there was one legacy kid who should've been a slamdunk to impact Springfield, it's Stacey.

Well, the backstory on Bill was that he always wanted Billy and Van back together. He resented Fletch when he accidentally found out Van was dating him, and when Billy went to jail shortly after remarrying Van, he didn't deal with that well either. **** signed up for complications when he got with a woman with three children (she's also coparenting Peter). That said, Ryan Brown couldn't find an emotion if he googled it. He was awful in the role of Bill. Plus, I think the writers wanted us to know Bill "wasn't a momma's boy", and he and Van start having conflicts (I swear I caught a scene where he snarks something about why Dinah's troubled, and then she disapproves of him getting involved with that Santos girl.) The writers did kind of excise Vanessa from the Lewis circle after '95. Mindy and Dylan leave, Josh has his Annie/Reva problem, and Vanessa's off dying/almost dying and dealing with Dinah's issues. We just always know Josh and Van are close. It comes into play at the end, when it's Josh she confides in that she wants to marry Billy and he plays Cupid for them. You can just feel that Jerry and Maeve adored each other. :)