KLN

On 1/1/2022 at 2:40 PM, carolineg said:

The oddness of John/Marlena accepting a nicer, gentler Kristen was freaking bizarre.  Leave them out of it or play up the endless rivalry.  I agree you either make Kristen reformed and have SH play it or don't.  Going back and forth with different actresses, different motivations, different screen partners, etc is a disservice to both actresses.

Again, Kristen is a smart character, regardless of her flaws, but Ron makes her epically dumb.  Her plans consist of face masks and ridiculously bad choices.  Kristen in the 90's was nothing if not one step ahead and this Kristen is just not that bright.

I agree with a lot of this.

The mask stuff is a problem and I've voiced it. It's stupid. But the combustibility of this Kristen?

Yes please.

On 1/1/2022 at 2:26 PM, Vee said:

Ironically, the only place I think Stacy is actually that popular is a subset of Twitter. 

Again, talented actress, and I do think Kristen has always had layers. Just not the kind of layers to justify what the show has attempted to do with Kristen via poor writing, which is defang her and then reverse themselves with a 180, repeatedly. The show isn't capable of reinventing the wheel with Kristen. If they were I'd have been open to it, as I was with her when they originally did the time jump. But they couldn't pull it off and they haven't done it. Eileen can play layers too, the current show just isn't interested. They thought they could make a 'new' Kristen with a new actress, and instead failed to write it. Now IMO people are conflating their admiration for the actress trying to elevate the material with a legitimately good attempt at remaking the character. But DAYS hasn't delivered it.

This is something Ron has done with many villains at other shows, BTW; he falls in love with a character or actor and tries to slowly make them more palatable and rootable, usually by slanting or skewing the writing and cutting corners. In doing so he often turns initial audience favorites into overpropped messes. It happened at GH with Obrecht (among others, and some characters at OLTL as well), it happened with Gwen at DAYS and in a different way it's happened with Kristen who was an actual established character prior to him, which was a bridge too far for his usual schtick. And whenever it flops he goes back to the factory settings. Kristen is no different.

Those are valid points.

I like Stacy's Kristen but I respect anyone who feels differently.

On 1/1/2022 at 2:05 PM, carolineg said:

I have never considered Kristen to be a straight villian.  She was driven to do the things she did out of insecurity, fear, doubts, etc.  Let's be real.  Kristen was a fairly clever psycho, but she wasn't wrong about John.  He REPEATEDLY told her he loved her and only her.  He willingly made a baby with her and proposed to her.  All the time he was lying to her and Marlena.  John's kind of the villian lol.

To this day (outside of JER being JER) I don't understand why John and Marlena couldn't just be honest with one another.  Blah, blah, blah the pain of the affair, the baby, each other's happiness.  Stop being lame.  Them being together, IMO, would have legitimized their affair and stopped a lot of their problems.   For storyline purposes it was great, but it really made 0 sense.  Marlena telling John the truth about Kristen from the beginning of the pregnancy was arguably less stressful than Kristen keeping secrets the entire pregnancy, but whatever.  I digress... Plus the woman had to live as a sex slave on an island for years.  

You said it all.

JER's take on religion and morality was distorted as hell. At the time in a more black and white world, at age 13, sure... I bought what it. Now? I appreciate his craftsmanship but the dude was tortured.

On 1/1/2022 at 1:12 PM, janea4old said:

You described Kristen as "a perfect tragic anti-heroine".
WHAT? Kristen should NEVER be written that way!
Kristen is a villain!

.

On 1/1/2022 at 1:15 PM, carolineg said:

I just wish the show would chose a lane with Kristen or even just a single actress.  

Kristen is a villian, but she does have tragic anti-heroine qualities.  She was a good person.  John/Marlena being a**holes kind of turned her crazy.  They were the ones drooling all over each other while lying about their feelings.  Kristen was a hot mess, but those two did sort of bring it on themselves.

Kristen is layered and complex if they let her be. Like any other character.

I think some people are stuck in old bias... nostalgia, whatever.

On 1/1/2022 at 1:06 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

In all fairness, the SHOW is using SH when the storyline is about Brady or the current stories.
ED's cameos are far and few between so when they use her it is for nostalgia purposes; in scenes that involve John and Marlena.
I am not sure it is so much an acting choice than just the way the show is using them at the same time for different purposes.
ED had plenty of chemistry with Brady when it first played out; that's why the story worked when it really shouldn't have.

Fair points.

On 1/1/2022 at 12:06 PM, carolineg said:

In the flurry of activity last night I didn't read this properly.  Did John actually sleep with Kristen?  I thought they were just making out in bed so Brady would catch them.  Admittedly, I didn't tune in to all that story back in the day. 

John/Kristen are always an odd coupling to me.  I can buy they are still attracted to one another on one hand, but on the other John hasn't really shown much interest in her since 1995 and most of his fantasies were about Marlena anyway.  I wish the show was a little more clear on the intentions.  ED's Kristen seems still into John, but SH's Kristen seems into Brady.  They play that aspect of the character very differently.

One of the reasons I prefer Stacy.

Eileen's a legend. You won't find anyone who loved her more than me but I feel the same as you.

Even when John and Kristen were together all he cared about was Marlena. That was the driver of her insecurities.

Reject adoptee finds love, fulfills her dream of a family of her own only to find his heart was never hers. Add the miscarriage, Stefano's influence and she snapped.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

Oh, Gawd.  Just forget I ever brought the damn idea up.  

15 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I would literally give anything for Wayne back as Roman.   I love Jarlena for all it's worth, but I loved Wayne as Roman.  Without him (and I don't think it's all JT but writing), Roman is so lame!!

Same.

I could go for Northrup and Koslow.

I'd love a Kate/Roman/Laura triangle. Throw in a little Vivian (not Dano or Strasser), Northrup's Roman. A dash of Kristen to mess things up. It'll be like old times.

Josh Taylor just isn't Roman to me.

Can I say 'damn Ron' for killing Laura one more time?

9 minutes ago, Khan said:

At least when JER had Marlena become possessed by the devil, he paved the way for it with stuff like her affair with John.  Ron Carlivati having Johnny become possessed is just random as hell* with absolutely zero build-up.

Like I always say, an audience will go wherever you want them to, you just have to take the time to get them there.

 

(*no pun intended)

Ron was more interested in outdoing the original story than crafting a cohesive plot with proper build and investment. He became so proud that he lost what made the original story magic in the first place.

Ryan Murphy syndrome.

You can be unpredictable and still maintain the mechanics of good plotting.

That said, bring on devil Johnny. At least he speaks in full breaths. (Love you Dee.)

3 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Forgot about Johnny's fake eye.  Maybe it will make a comeback like Phillip's fake leg.

Maybe they took out the fake and put in a cadaver eye. He can be like the Three Eyed Raven.

2 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Once again Ron skips the beats. We didn't even see Johnny fighting the devil for his soul. I know if they had it would've made the ending today not as shocking but still.

Ron's middle name should be bullet points.

He must not be regular with his ADHD meds.

I'm glad Johnny's the next 'devil.' I was hoping (if anyone) it would be Abby or Kayla but he gets the job done too. He's charming and weaselly so he can be devilish without sounding alarms. I'm sure the characters will be lobotomized either way, but I digress...

I worry a bit. The guaranteed homoeroticism is something I'm all for but I don't need Ron conflating gay/bi/fluid with Satanic, even for entertainment. Just write it for what it is.

That said I'm looking forward to this. Just no more MarDevil. Stay in 1995 please.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I was thinking more of a RC wacky fave like Tuc Watkins and he'd be in a Speedo openly trying to seduce Marlena lol.

Be careful what you manifest!

Noooo.

They're all gone.

I don't think there needs to be an origin story, it's the devil.

He found her at her weakest point, failed to consume her so he tried and failed again. Now it's personal and will keep trying until she and the ones she loves pays. Simple.

Next time take it seriously and let Marlena be the recipient vs. the driver.

I agree about Peter. He's heaps more relevant than Colin but I'll keep an open mind.

44 minutes ago, DaytimeFan said:

Vivian helping Laura fake her own death would make sense since both were in the same mental hospital in the mid 90s, one helped the other when there was a fire at the institution (can’t recall who helped whom), and they both hate Kate.

I love this.

Laura's a workable character.

Her rivalry with Kate and ties with Vivian. Her hatred of Kristen who tormented her to the nuthouse. Her friendship with Marlena. Her entire branch of the Horton family tree who still leads story. It was more than a waste killing her.

40 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

We go back to AlexElizabeth's point.

Ron pulled a name out of the show history in Laura because "Look I am using History!" but he didn't understand who she was and what she meant to the audience so he saw no problem treating her as an expendable chess piece in the story *he* wanted to tell with a character *he* created.

100%.

I like Gwen though. Don't hate me.

The most memorable thing about Colin was his vacant model girlfriend and how excited she was to go to Hope's potty... party, in 2001.

She had an interesting accent.

I can't imagine why they'd bring Colin back, he was a pretty big flop of a character. I definitely didn't like the actor.

22 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

The show features Will and Sonny, as heteronormative, wholesome and unremarkable as two gay men will ever be on a soap.

The repeated jokes around Leo's predatory behavior do suck but if people decide to draw conclusion about gay men based on that one character who crosses boundaries with consent on a show that features a murderer and a rapist among its STRAIGHT leading men, I think we can safely say it has more to do with them than with the show.
 

Valid.

Art is subjective. 

I'm a gay male with a robust sex drive but the way they write Leo... I dunno. It's not my favorite thing.

Toying with consent is a slippery slope but I can't argue with the points you made.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Of course!  That would be my first order of business: remove Josh Taylor as Roman, bring back Wayne Northrop the next day, and then, a month or so later, bring back Josh as Chris Kositchek, and not make a big deal about any of it.

Even worse, with SSH/Julie getting on in years, and DH/Marlena not exactly the strong, capable, professional woman she used to be, Laura was a good candidate to replace Frances Reid/Alice as DAYS' new central matriarch.

It irritates me thinking about it.

There are plenty of actresses with enough range to play Laura, uptight professional grandmother, sometimes borderline schizo romantic rival with legitimate ties to the whole damn town, starting with Kate and Kristen. Marlena. Her whole branch of the Horton family tree.

What a waste killing her off.

An even bigger waste killing her the way he did.

Damn Ron.

1 hour ago, AlexElizabeth said:

They really brought Missy back just to dress her in this. 

Tragic. I like her hair though.

16 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Another big mistake that had me asking wtf?

There was no reason for Laura to die and no reason to tie her to Gwen or Gwen's mother either. They could have just pinned the whole thing on Harper and it would have made perfect sense.

Definite mistake.

She's a workable piece of the canvas with legitimate ties and rivalries. Jack, Jennifer, Abby, Kate, Kristen, Marlena, etc. I mean damn.

She shouldn't have died like that. Not without a last hurrah or something. But Ron didn't know who she was and she didn't qualify as iconic (to him) so in the rug she goes.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

If Laura were to come back from the dead -- and again, I'm not supporting any more characters coming back from the dead, on this or any other show -- then I would want to see her fall gradually into a relationship with Roman, thereby having her and Kate square off once again.

Nice! I like that. Not Stumpy though. Northrup.

Damn Ron.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

I HATE that Ron killed off Laura, but I am sick to death of people coming back from the dead on this damn show!

I'd love Laura/Kristen but it's not worth another back from the dead story, I agree.

Lexie, I think so. Laura, nah.

Damn Ron for killing her though.

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

I can't be the only one that sees it!

Maybe I am.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

Soapsuds: "I keep waiting for Johnny to make the moves on Tripp. I always thought Johnny was fluid."

Honestly...?  The last thing we need is Ron Carlivati conflating same-sex attraction with ....  (And no, I'm not putting spoiler tags what I just said.  I'm too busy putting GLAAD on speed-dial to bother right now.)

Agreed.

Cheap, counter-productive and not worth whatever temporary thrill Ron might get out of it.

So of course he'll do it.

Just write fluidity as fluidity.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

Agree.  Not every gay character has to be as pure as snow, but Leo reinforces some stereotypes about gays at a time when we are still fighting for greater visibility and credibility in all forms of entertainment.

Look, I don't watch movies like "Rosemary's Baby" and "The Exorcist," because I simply don't want that [!@#$%^&*] "in my spirit."  And when JER began his story, I stopped watching DAYS, because that was a line that I was never gonna cross.  But I give him props, because, from everything that I've read about it, he took the subject matter seriously (or, as seriously as a truly fucked-up man like JER ever could) and crafted a real love story (John & Marlena's) out of it.  But Ron Carlivati has conflated demonic possession with wacky hijinks; and that is not only distasteful, it's dangerous.

100%.

JER was supremely messed up but at least he wrote semi-adult, semi-serious stories. I appreciated the tone and structure but his pathos ran deep. He was a reclusive, regressed, self-hating religious bigot with no understanding what actually motivates humans outside the simple, tribalistic black and white lens he viewed the world through. Some of that lends itself to soap storytelling but he was nuts.

Potato flakes Ryan Murphy took the most messed up parts of JER and poured glitter glue all over it with this story.

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

That is true ^^

There are some things that are beyond his control, and I accept that but there are other things (Laura's death, Calista, Kristen in a Sarah mask) that are just so pointless and unnecessary that you have to say Wtf?

Yeah I'm done with the mask stuff. 

Kristen/Susan are part of the canon but it should end there. Really I'm fine if they never swap again, even though Stacy kills the variances.

Perfect example of Ron taking something fun (in it's time) and indulging it to death. Nobody asked for masks.

I don't like that he killed Laura. Ron did to her what Paulina wanted to do to the square except they need to actually tear that down and build a new promenade, Salem Place part deux because HTS is stale. 

Laura should be alive to face off with Kristen.