EricMontreal22

In the Melrose Place thread you said you found all shows like it shallow and unwatchable (and yes I'm badly misquoting you ). I kinda agree with you but have a love hate thing for them--but Central Park West, when i was 14 was the first one I actively started watching when it began--and I was upset when ti never caught on lol (I wonder if it woulda been a bigger hit on Fox than Models Inc and lasted longer?)

HAahah I oddly love her. EVen after she helped ruin one of my fave novels ever, Myra Breckinridge (though I admit her and the movie are so awful they're pretty much camp) But she wasn't needed on the show...

Sylph I thought you hated these kinds of prime time soaps--or is it only when Spelling is involved? I'd actually love to buy this on DVD--I LOVED it, though I remember actually being more into it before it was overhauled--not sure if it was cuz I liked it better or if it was just that I never got back into it...

Thanks so much for that link! It's hard to find Loving on youtube (particularly cuz typing in Loving and Soap Opera brings up tons of clips from other soaps) so I never caught that! SO interesting to see a different AVa than I'm used to--shame there are no end credits with the writers

I know it's unfair to blame a soap for another soap's cancelation, but one reason I think I never gave this show a chance was I loved Loving so much, and thought the last half year of City (when the ratings were the only ratrings on ABC to start CLIMBING) was SOO good.

Ian was tied to Patrick Thornhart on OLTL right? Which I always found random as I don't think Patrick made an appearance. I think COle or Marty should make a mention of having a vampire in the family on OLTL

I don't think anything from Where the HEart Is exists online--i've searched for a while

I very briefly dated a Lance who told me once that his mom named him after a Y&R character--I guess that was it. Our running joke was at least she didn't name him SNapper

I sorta garee with both points. I did liek the actor who played Eliot (then again I liked a coupel fo the Pierce's too) but maybe not with Brooke--still his community center, the fact he was a priest, etc, were all interestiung elements that the show was missing--even though Agnes Nixon would have to list it as a failure on her part you could still see she played a part--if that makes sense

That Youtube ep is from the end of the Labine/Avila era when they were about to move to their own soap, RH--aren't they even in the credits? I agree it's a terrific episode. Sadly from reading a LOT I think this was the only era of Love of Life at least since the 50s and early 60s that would interest me much--(is RH even on SoapNet anymore? I wish I could watch it at 5am ) Of course it was the writing award Labine/Avila won for their 2 year long stint at WHere the HEart Is that got them transfered to Love of Life andother CBS show when it was canceled. And I always thought Elizabeth Page was a decent writer (her 1999 stint at AMC as co head with Agnes Nixonw as certainly better than when Jean passanante replaced her for some reason) but knowing she wrote the Caitlins has lowere dmy view of her as well

I actually really liked the Brooke/Eliot stuff though I know I'm in the HUGE minority. Although it was a big bomb, it did really feel like Agnes writing to me (maybe not an example of her at her best, but...) Wow that Linda Dano thing was a mess. (The Alex/Anna thign was almost as confusing as Proteus later on, though I did grow to love Finola, she never really played two roles well. But Dog Boy was solely Passanate I think...) Still you wonder what Agnes was thinkign when Libidizone is going on and we're still gettign amazing Bianca scenes--liek did she just try her best to ignore the rest of the show? lol

I have a good tape library of when Agnes returned as headwriter. Becca came on (as did Greens) when it was still written as Agnes Nixon headwriter solely. Soon after it was Nixon and Elizabeth Page. Then soon it was Nixon, Liz Page and Jean Passanante, in that order. And then by September, I think it was just Agnes and Passanante. I still do fault Agnes for Becca as one of her misfires...--But I agree the actor has to be there too (and I'm not sur--maybe Page, a talented lady, was writing to Agnes' stories too, though, besides Bianca's, some cute sidestories, like Marian being jealous of the Queen's tea and trying to wheedle her way in seemed classic Agnes)

I'll try then--give me time i'm new to all this

Loyal--that was shortly before Monty returned for her not well received new era at GH right? David MElanie does sound a mess... I guess the next young love story was the much more successful (and where I started watching) Hayley/Brian one? It's interesting, really since the start AMC always seemed to try to have a young star crossed love story startign with Tara/Phil/Chuck--but many haven't been as successful, althoug Nina/Cliff were prob the benchmark. I'm not even sure if lately AMC has *tried* to have any... When Agnes Nixon returned in 1999 as writer she created Scott/Becka/Greenlee, with Greenlee obviously int eh Erica roll. The thing is I think Nixon made a (rare) mistake--heroines like Tara simply don't work on soaps with modern audiences, and Becka was SOOO amazingly boring I don't know anyone who liked her. E

Wasn't Lemay a consultant too (and apparantly helped Jill write OLTL when they were between HWriters for like a year...) I love Lemay but he seemed kinda off by then--i also remember his comments about how The City simply didn't work at all, somethign I always disagreed with

*edited* now I've read the replies *blush* LoyalToAMC, thanks so much for your great memory and recollections--that makes sense. I wonder if Behr knew DePriest from somewhere else or just her reputation after DAYS? What was the David-Melanie story? From the tapes I have I did love the Nico/Cecily stuff (who woulda thougth he'd now play my hated Sonny on GH). It was funny when I was watching live and Cecily came back, around 1995 and they did that cheesy internet dating story with her and Charlie Brent, who when Lawson played I hated anyway--I NEVER got the appeal of Cecily. Talk about a character return that's not needed and botched. So then it was Washam (back?) Agnes, McTavish and Broderick for the 20th anniversary? I knwo that in the Soap Encyclopedia for the 1992 Emmys (so the 91 season) Broderick is listed as part of Guiding Light's nominated writing team. All My Shadows--that's crazy that UCLA has those--so they have EVERY soap from Marc 1971 in their library? Is it an example of you can go and if you have a valid reason view them at the library--or are they not available at all? I know as a theatre fan rights for videotaped things are very iffy--the Lincoln Centre archives in New York have filmed virtually every Broadway production from the late 70s on but because they did them cheaply without paying the creative team, cast, etc, because they were done for archival purposes. They can never be released on DVD or video (unless some expensive and crazy new deal was formed with the remainding members of the show) and can't be circulated but if you have a valid reason (ie you're writing an important article or thesis on a show) you can go and view it at the site. I know somethign that aire don TV is different but the Museum of TV and Radio has a TON of old TV things that can't be circulated as well (probably, I never thought of this, many soaps). It's a rights thing. If UCLA has the stuff they prob don't haev thew rigths to circulate it and gettign DVD rights would be very hard unless P&G or CBS or whoever agreed to it--it wouldn't be as hard as with the theatre example I mentioned where it's next to impossible, but... Still man I'd love to see a small string of episodes of AMC, OLTL, unseen soaps like Heart, etc from 1971... *edit* I see this is moved to Cnaceled Soaps where it should be--sorry about that. I just hope people will think to LOOk here, most threads seem to die...*

Well DePriest ripped the serial killer storyline off of one she wrote for Days I think (the AW one...) I find her an interesting writer though not flawless of course--and for me she was the best of the major Sunset Beach writers (though I didn't follow that show very closely, just when I was home). You know with AMC it's so hard to know who wrote when--some peopel will tell you Agnes Nixon wrote all of McTavish's first run at AMC for instance Similarly in the mid 80s many episode si have list the headwriter as Lorraine Broderick on the end credits but officially I believe Agnes was the overall HW. I read DePriest was brought in during the late 80s--maybe around 88-89? breifely--after the strike? I'm not sure why but I think it was a time Agnes focus was more elsewhere (maybe one of the times she briefly returned ot focus on Loving?) I know many felt AMC wasn't as good around then despite some highlights (really until 1990 or so with Erica's father the clown) M DePriest had some weird relationship with ABC--she didn't HW any of their shows for long but someone there liked her as she was brought in a few times to help shows--when OLTL's ratings finally were slipping under Rauch when Michael Schnessel's writing was becoming completley campy, M DePriest was brought in (Wikipedia says only from Oct 90 to Feb 91) to turn things around. I believe the show was pretty bad then--wasn't there a rap group? and some new family she tried to introduce who were quickly gone--but the show was refocused under her and then soon Malone (and then in early 92 finally Griffith who really made Malone's work, work) came in who always seemed to be the end game. I also heard that in the late 90s or so DePriest was a consultant for ABC daytime at least for a while--again which strikes me as slightly odd. And Anon I want to see those 7 episodes!!

In honour of the show's upcomign 25th birthday, good old Snark poste don Youtube a classic 1984 episode by Doug Marland. I believe this is the same episode that was up last year by WashesWhiter before he was banned from Youtube and it disappeared http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-ZBYPOJcmQ

Her and Trucker (who wasnt' a great actor--he seems to have never done anything else but was definetly one of the hottest soap hunks) were just a GREAT couple--I was pretty miffed when she left around 93 or 94 (I think to be in Central Park West). It sounds like Loving had a lot of problems in the mid 80s but the early stuff I've seen is WONDERFUL, and I loved nearly everything from the 90s--with I guess Agnes Nixon's return for nearly a full year to clean it up in 94 being the best (even the whacky stories she did like Dante and his "pet" in the cage...). I have very little on video sadly. However I have the last two months of City on video and now I think I've found a way to encode it and may start uploading full eps, a few a week, to youtube where there's such a lack of Loving/City things--if there's interest? E

Great stuff Paul! Man this sounds liek a wild soap--stories liek that just weren't being done back then. It's intriguing too what the SOD scans said that it actually mixed the over the top campiness with geniune emotion and pathos well--especially under Labine and her partner. Kinda interesting that's hwo they got their start (even winning a writing award) when I always kinda think of them as doing smaller scale, quieter stories thanks to Ryan's Hope, etc. Man I wish an episode or two of this existed...

FrenchFan your resources always amaze me--thanks SO much for posting this! Elsa, it should be on the first page of Discuss the Soaps... You're right it does have a hint of JER about it I almost hate to admit. It does sound like the writers were almost doing a bit of a soap parody--or a super self aware soap--back before that was really done much.

ANd just for another view, Waggett's 1997 Soap Encyclopedia has this entry for HEart--he seemed to overall be less taking by the show as Chris was: Where the Heart Is was scheduled between Love of Live and Search For Tomorrow, but it had little in common with either soap. While the other two followed the exploits of heroines the audience could admire, Heart examined the many sins commited by the less-than-noble inhabitants of the town of Northcross. The show opened in the middle of a complicated love triangle: English professor Julian Hathaway's young wife Mary was fighting an attraction to Julian's son Michael. A couple of years later Julian evened the score by impregnating Michael's wife Liz. Although Days of Our Lives was scoring high ratings with its varied intrafamilial love triangles, many viewers found somethign distateful about this wife-swapping between Julian and his son. Pushing the incest taboo even further, and alienatign more viewers, another character killed her own brother after he rejected her sexual advances. Where The EHart Is ran one of the most vicious scenes many soap fans of the time had witnessed. After Vicky Lucas miscarried Michael Hatthaway's baby, she pushed pregnant Mary Hathaway down a flight of stairs. Realizing there was nothign VIcky could do to top that, and now ay to redeem her sin, the writers shipped her off to a mental hospital. Where the Heart Is boasted one of the finest casts of its time, many of whom would make their mark elsewhere. In addition to James Mitchell, there were Joseph Mascolo, Bernie Barrow, Louise Shaffer, and Diana van der Vlis. The show's lineup of writers was no less impressive, and included Pat Faleken Smith and the team of Claire Labine and Paul Avila Mayer. Despite the talent in front of and behind the cmaeras, many soap fans simply could not connect with the underlying level of immorality that ran through the show. the one moral character with whom the fans might have identified, Julian's sister Kate (Diana van der Vlis) lost her mind and began acting out bizarre sexual scenes of her own. Sandwiched as it was between two popular, conservative soaps, Where the HEart Is starte dout strong, pulling in the highest ratings of all the soaps that debuted in the 1969-1970 season. Unfortunately the ratings never improved. Tehy levelled out the following season and started to decline. The ratings did start to climb after Labine and Avila Mayer took over as headwriters and wrote it in a sophisticate dhigh camp manner, but CBS had already given up on the show (they did pay attention to the writers though and quickly hired them to Love of Life where they improved that show). The advertisers, put off by the show's sordid themes, were simply not interested in appealing to the small but loyal cult following.

OK I posted about the two other, now completely gone it seems (not even a few scenes seem to have been saved) soaps that I always wish I could see--Lemay's Lovers and Friends and Marland's New Day in Eden--the other "missing" soap that I always read about and sounds fascinating to me is Where the Heart Is. It ran longer than the other two--nearly 5 years, and was created by Margaret DePriest who is a writer I think has always had talent (even if she briefly did two late 80/early 90s eras on my two fave soaps, AMC and OLTL that aren't known as their best) and a style I like in soap operas. Did anyone see/remember this intriguing sounding show? ANything from it exist? Reading the outrageous plot descriptions and that Chris Schemering said the show was great farce makes me think it may have had a touch of what Sunset Beach (and dare I say it my hated Passions) were trying for, but done so maybe better. (in fact how old is Margaret DePriest? I know she wrote for Sunset Beach and I felt she was the best writer for that campy show--is she still alive? She musta been relatively young when she created Heart Is, I wonder how she got the job as I don't think she had had any major runs on other soaps before) Here's the 1987 Soap Opera Encyclopedia entry by Chris Schemering: Where the HEart Is Sep 8 1969 - March 23 1973 Created by Margaret DePriest and Lou Scofield (who died during the run), former writers of The Edge of Night, this was a wonderfully bizarre, and perhaps ahead of its time, daytime serial centering on sexual intrigues in the Hathaway and Prescott families. Everybody in the suburban town of Northcross, Connecticut, seemed to be silmutaneously in love with two or three other individuals; pregnant or working on it; living with each other out of wedlock (risque for soaps of the day especially on conservative CBS); or cheating on their lovers with their spouses! Even the stalwart Kate Hathaway, who was always to be counted in a crisis, took to hearing Joan of Arc voices, falling into schizophrenic fantasies, wearing Frederick's of Hollywood scanties, and dancing lewdly in front of children [sounds liek a marvelous soap creation to me!]! Fans remember the sexual roundelay of the show with hilarious affection chiefly because of the top-notch acting by a strong cast headed by James Mitchell (Palmer on AMC later on, and an ex well known Broadway and Hollywood dancer), the lush direction of Richard Dunlap and Bill Glenn (who later took their formidable talents and much of Heart's look to The Young and the Restless), and the sharp writing firstr of Margaret DePriest and later of such soon to become formidable names as Pat Falken Smith, and Claire Labine and Paul Avila Mayer. Although the ratings were quite good -- a 6.8 when the cast was informed of the show's cancelation on Feb 12, 1973 -- CBS felt the masses were not cottoning to the revelry, and that the cult audience the show was attracting was scaring away conservative advertisers. Canceled the same day as Love is a Many SPlendored Thing, it was replaced by the similar but often even more avant garde The Young and the Restless. The story was a triumph of well played farce: Julian Hathaway, a widowed English professor, married Mary, who was really in love with Julian's son Michael. Villainess Vicky Lucas exploited the situation by getting pregnant by the unhappy Michael and forcing him into marriage. After Vicky lost her baby, she vindictively pushed Mary, also pregnant, down a flight of stairs. Vicky was then commited to a mental institution, only to make a major surprise comeback some while later. After divorcing the bitch goddess Vicky, Michael married the even more bitchy Liz Rainey. Liz had an affair with Michael's father, Julian and became pregnant. next Liz made Mary think that Julian was carrying on with Loretta Jardin, a recovering alcoholic and student of Robert Browning's. As the cancelation date grew closer, the storylines started to wind up with breathtaking dexterity--a stunning example of the craft of the writers. Liz admitted she got pregnant on purpose and Julian, unimpressed by her audacity, suggested she pack her bags. Michael divorced Liz and remarried his ex wife VIcky, who had been released from the institution. Meanwhile Steve had married Julian's sister Kate. While suffering from amnesia, Steve became involved with Ellie Jardin, who was later murdered. Steve and Kate adoped Ellie's mute son Peter who later died in a fire. Other characters involved in the major stroylines included Alison Jessup, Julian and Kate's sister; Dr Hugh Jessup, Allison's husband; and Christine Cameron who had an illegitimate child by Hugh. In 1972, Despo, the infamous Andy Warhol star had a 2 month running role.

An all time fave soap of mine. Re Trucker and Trisha--Noelle Beck wanted to leave the show. It was smart not to recast... Ava was the central heroine for most of it (an Erica clone) and Lisa played her more and I think is definitive. I thought it was GREAT the last few months. It was also the only ABC show where the ratings were climbing (slowly but...) Really some of th ebest soap I've been able to watch live, so glad I have the last 2 months on tape.

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