EricMontreal22

SHana was an illegitimate Alden, though she was absorbed into the clan but always kinda an outsider. I think Stacy was kinda in a flux after Jack. The story with Clay making her think she saw his ghost (with, from what my 11 year old mind can remember--hologram projectors lol) was pretty far fetched (though not as far fetched as Ava doing a low budget version of Vicki's trip to Heaven or the infamous devil storyline). Still, I was sad to see the only original cast member--who had never really been too central but always a likeable presence--go in the murders. But I guess they did that partly to show they meant business. Jeremy IMHO never fit with anyone at Loving. The long trek with Ava where they ran from that GH villain (?) had cute/funny moments and went nowhere. I liked the character, and was glad they brought him over from AMC in a way, but except for Hannah crushing on him, he never had much of a use, and the evil twin story was not particularly well done. Angie, for example, fit in on the show much more immediately. I was shocked Ava wasn't going to The City (though Alex had many conversations with her off camera). For the most part, with the distance of time, I can say that I think they brought the right people to The City, but it probably would have brought more Loving viewers over if they had brought in a few core/older members. Then again, City's ratings were virtually the same as Loving's, so maybe at that point it didn't matter at all?

A pretty standard Agnes Nixon plot--I didn't realize it happened during her return as HW, but it makes sense.

Cranston seems solid in the 1984 online ep... Thanks SFK, I had heard it was commercially released. Maybe I'll order it... Wow--amazon still has copies in stock they claim!

Yes. One of the episodes--I think Hannah found him? Or was it Steffi?--is on youtube. She's in that 1988 episode online where the new Lily is flirting with Jack... Man I wish I could see the pilot--I used to have it saved from WOST but never got around to watching it and don't seem to have it anymore...

The late 80s till 91 or 92 were really a mess, from what I can tell. The city became too corporate and big, lost the campus and small town feel entirely, etc.

I'll have to check youtube--he DOES have the Marland look, for sure. WOST had at least one episode with Trisha and Steve--I liked them from it, I also liked her with psycho Jeff (though having her go off air with him out of the institution and her amnesiac was kinda as odd exit...) There was another episode with AVa and Paul when he was in a wheelchair, which was an interesting match I thought. Dinah Lee and Trucker actually... weren't bad. But it wasn't Trucker and Trisha.

HAHA poor Tony. How long was he on ATWT? I think he pretty much gave up on acting and is living in some small city as a carpenter or something random now... It woulda been great if they coulda ended up with him and Trisha reunited--but Noelle leaving the show hurt that a lot.

When I started watching I DID get him mixed up with Clay. I suppose seeing his children, he was a bit too young, but it never crossed my mind... And you're right about their cast... I dunno, I sorta think maybe nothing would have helped raise Loving's ratings (except doing as Agnes wanted and sandwiching it between her other shows). Because often it was very good--and it had a strong cast, but did lack stability in every sense of the word.

So randolph was the original Clay/Alex? I always thought he was second for some reason... I agree it's nice to see they tried with Loving. That last one seems almost like a huge advertisement BEGGING people to tune in (and to be fair to ABC, throughout the 90s, despite the damaging quick turnaround of EPs and HWs, it's obvious by who they hired, and what they've said, that ABC *was* trying to bring people to Loving. I mean compare the situation now where AMC has had the same crap EP for 8 or 9 years now, which is I think longer than anyone except when Agnes was EP in the 70s! The OLTL piece you posted from the same issue, about Gottlieb shows the same enthusiasm).

That's fantastic--and going to take me a while to print and read. I have to admit, while he exemplifies the kind of "soap stud" I often find embarassing and am not usually drawn to--as a yougn teen I *loved* Trucker. Not a great actor, but I found him beyond handsome and also an exceedingly likeable character (and Trisha/Trucker were prob the closest Loving got to a true super couple who would get SOD time, etc--even if Ava and Alex and others came close)

She was GREAT in the murder mystery--the revelation is of course one of the great female soap scenes I think--but I thinmk you're right. I haven't seen much from the 80s (only what's online) but could it have been when she returned after a year or two in 1991?

Oh I meant which actress--I think it's Roya Megnot as Ava, but can't quite tell (LOL I know, I know--) and was wondering if it could be the briefly used first Ava, Patty Lotz. Even with what Gwyn became, it's a testament to the actress that she was an immediate favorite of mine.

I don't think these Loving promos from 1984 have been posted here yet--I just found them, though they'd been up for a year. Which Ava is that in the first one? and one from 88 which seems to continue the Jack/Lily story from that 1987 episode that's online

Isn't it also that he liked using theatre talent that didn't always wanna stick around on a soap for very long?

Why specifically? I think I can guess, but am curious...

That's true, even if you do a lot to change a soap, it's different coming in with a foundation.

Loved reading the opinion piece at the end. It sounds like the show wasn't very well liked... Lack of plot sometimes was a problem of Lemay's I take it, but you'd think by then he would know how to structure a soap better? The implied lack of feeling for the characters doesn't sound like Lemay though... I find all this fascinating.

I believe that the four shows were Ma Perkins, Helen Trent, Young Dr Malone and Happiness... I have a book on radio serials I can check on the weekend.

I've mentioned that when I was a teen I was really into the old radio soaps--I listened to those 50 or so consecutive Guiding Light episodes, as well as some 30s ones and various others. Besides Guiding Light, the show I found the most interesting was definitely Right to Happiness--its spin off of course (though I believe Irna handed over the writing job quite early on). I think it was one of the bigger hits too, and of course ran till the bitter end of the radio soap era, I wonder why they never did try to transition it, as a companion to GL on TV or something. Carl I think 4 or so soaps all left the airwaves at the same time (in 1960?) Right was one of them, but I can't remember the others (Yougn Dr Malone? Road of Life? Which of course both did try out on TV but I believe with different storylines)

Bad Romance has been my fave of her singles, and it was one of the few videos that worked (I liked Paparazzi too). While I like that she still does over the top videos when few others do, I do kinda get the criticsm ever since Alejandro--and now--that the video concepts seem to have next to nothing to do with the song. Although that's always been part of Gaga's shtick (and to be fair it's worked brilliantly for her commercially)--"outrageous" image, with pretty conventional catchy pop/dance. I agree that the opening, as repellent as parts of it are is the best part of the video--it seems to set up something, that isn't fulfilled with the rest (though I like the skeleton bit for some reason--I'm pretty tired of Gaga's always the same choreography though which is just kinda a mess). Oddly I was just rewatching for the first time in years, the Tales of the City miniseries with a friend which opens with the Vertigo theme as well... I do lik e the song--cliche as it is--and I guess I would have been annoyed with a video that was set at a gay pride parade or something more expected, but... This may sound defensive, but I don't think Gaga *is* trying to be sexy--I know in Vanity Fair (though maybe *she* was being defensive) she has said she's never trying to sell herself as a sex object, even when she wears next to nothing. I actually kinda appreciate that in a world where nearly every female popstar(and male, for that matter)'s main goal is to look as sexy as possible. *That* is one area where she does differ from Madonna.

I've long been interested in this... I found a few interesting New York Times articles on it, that I can try to post but thats it... (Of course they didn't like it much...) Wish something from it was online

The video starts off interestingly--even if using Herrmann's Vertigo has been done before--and then kinda goes nowhere fast. She also needs a new choreographer. I don't mind long videos though--they will ofen just play the edit anyway... I do agree with Adam though--with the sorry state of videos right now, when even Madonna could care less, I like that she at least tries... Oh and Little Boots:

Shrug. I see that as exactly why it's all an act. She sees herself (pretentiously I admit) as a creation, like Bowie saw himself in the 70s, etc. I've never heard her actually say it's a direct reflection of who she is, but rather of who her influences have been and what she thinks the world (again pretentious) "needs". I enjoy her because nothing is genuine about her. I guess that doesn't make me one of her monsters, but I don't see any of the messages she rants on about as BAD, so it doesn't bug me. I see a lot of people get really worked up (people who dislike her) by all this though, which is exactly what she wants. She does sing the important part on Ellen, but I agree actually. I'm sick of people covering pop songs on youtube and being heralded as the Next Great Thing, particularly when they're not so cute little kids that Ellen loves. But I guess that makes me evil and grumpy

I'm mixed on it. I dunno though the Gaga is fake argument/criticism makes me laugh cuz IMHo that's her whole shtick--it's ALL show, an act, and that's what appeal she has for me. Pop music should be like that IMHO--a show.

HURTS' new video/single. I've liked them from the start, but I admit the film geek in me loves that this video is a take on Cocteau's Orphee. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbRPFDG4Ais