mikelyons

42 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

 

LOL indeed. Maria has rubbed her own family and most of LA the wrong way. Aside from a weird NYT article a few years ago I haven’t heard much of her activities, it would not surprise me if Bill Jr. has her locked up in a panic room where she can do her arts all day. 

She and Bill Bell, Jr. have been living it up on a yacht in the Mediterranean for most of the year recently. They're just fine. Haha

45 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

Cricket, later called Christine to make the character feel more mature I suppose, truly ate up the show for a good number of years then. All roads led back to Cricket...

 

I do miss Tricia Cast and wish she had been able to stay with the show all these years. Nina was a fascinating character.

Nina was a wonderful, fully rounded, complex, and interesting Bell creation who changed and evolved over time, but never lost her edge (like Heather Tom's Victoria). She is missed!! 

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

Cricket ate the show from 1987 to 1989. That era also saw a change in EPs (H. Wesley Kenney to Ed Scott) and three major cast departures (Brenda Dickson, Eileen Davidson, Terry Lester).

Almost every random episode I've watched from 1987-1999 features Cricket Blair. I rolled my eyes as she tried to keep up with Jeanne Cooper in today's (5/5/2020) classic episode. I can only imagine how viewers and actors felt at the time!

22 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Great to see Terry Lester as Jack. Cricket was such a boring and annoying character. Two gay men in Danny and Phillip fighting for Cricket yawn.They should've been a couple. Phillip buying an engagement ring was laughable.

Terry Lester was perfect as Jack. Arrogant, lovable. What a great actor!

I agree with Phillip and Danny being a couple. That would've been scandalously fantastic! Maybe Phillip started drinking so much because everyone wanted him with a girl named Cricket (*eye roll*) when he had all of those illicit feelings for pool boys and Danny. 

 

Y&R: Noah and Fenmore. It would have made so much sense and involved most of the cast! 

OR

Y&R: Noah and Kyle: Now THAT would've been epic, especially if Noah was injured or died because of Kyle.

1 hour ago, AdamNewmanFan said:

True!, I think the soaps do better than just neilson also. Because we know from toups with the live+7 YR had just over 4 million viewers, and we do not know streaming numbers

Exactly. Isn't DAYS still the most watched show on the NBC app/Peacock? Yes, the revenue from VOD and AVOD isn't as big as network, but with constant replays and compounding over a year, it adds up. I'd bet the soaps are making way more money than ABC, CBS, or NBC would care to admit to justify their budget cuts.

 

As for writers, Kay Alden was one of the highest paid - ever. She was making about $10m per year. That may have included all of the sub writers, but those writers are usually employed by Bell Dramatic Serial Company, which is why it was really hard for LML get fire Minardi Slater, Esser, etc.

Irna was making $250k per year from her 15 minute radio soaps during the Depression and into the 1950s.

In the early-1980s, the networks were paying writers about $250k to simply CREATE a daytime serial, of which many were never picked up. It makes sense when you hear some of the big names who were hired to create a soap, but, those shows were almost always let on the dustheap. 

32 minutes ago, AdamNewmanFan said:

Whqt was guiding lights budget back in 09?

$0.84. 

22 minutes ago, AMCer said:

Who is the highest paid actor in soaps these days?

 

I assume Lucci probably still held the title in 2010, despite I assume several paycuts over the 2000s.

If I recall correctly, Susan Lucci was the first soap actor to earn $1m per year starting in the 80s. I would think this was around the time Capital Cities bought ABC, thus making ABC part of a larger corporation with greater resources. I do believe she made the most of any actor on daytime until the budget cuts.

Drake Hogestyn was making $10,000 per episode on DAYS before the budget cuts in the early-2000s.

Eric Braeden, Melody Thomas Scott, Peter Bergman, and Doug Davidson were the highest paid actors on Y&R well into the early-2000s clearing between $750k-$1m+ per year. Jeanne Cooper was making around $750k per year during this time due to a smaller guarantee than the other four. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauralee Bell was making close to Cooper.

I've been told that the "core-four" at B&B (Moss, McCook, Flannery, and Lang) were making $1m per year in the early-2000s. It wouldn't surprise me if a bit of their pay came from international licensing fees to keep the CBS' licensing fee at a reasonable level. Also, Brad pays his actors well, even when they're under contract and off-screen! It's been reported that actors have been brought back to B&B, paid $250k-$500k for six months to a year, dropped after three months, and Brad pays out the rest of their contract. 

I wish I knew more about the P&G soaps & their budgets. I've been searching for years!

4 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

It's very evident is watching these "classic episodes" that the budgets are a fraction of what they used to be even in the 1990s.

 

Still, the production values of Y&R and B&B are so much better than DAYS. it got to the point that I found it distracting...like that "blue room" that was redressed over and over to be everything.

That sounds like bad community theatre!

1 hour ago, AdamNewmanFan said:

Is YRs budget still 80m?

Last time I heard, their budget had settled to $60m per year. I wouldn't be surprised if it was $50-$55m right now, but that's a guess, based on what I'm seeing on screen.

All right, let's talk budgets!

When SEARCH FOR TOMORROW and LOVE OF LIFE launched in 1951, their budgets were $8,750 a week ($437,500/year).

By 2014 or so, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS' budget was $100m per year, one of the highest in television, and then fell to $80m per year. (For context with another highly rated daytime show, OPRAH was produced for $50m per year.)  (Note: I found Y&R's budget in documents from the Sony hack.)

It appears ALL MY CHILDREN and ONE LIFE TO LIVE cost $40m to produce (each) per year by the time they were canceled (that $80m went to KATIE).

DAYS' budget has been about $750k per week ($37.5m/year) for a while now.

What other hard budget numbers (weekly/monthly) do we have or know?

27 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

I actually found an article online a few days ago and I wish I had saved it, but it mentioned how returning soaps to 30 minutes might be the future of soaps. I believe it was written in the late 2000s and it was obviously wishful thinking as we know that networks actually preferred canceling soaps altogether rather than reducing their runtime. It mentioned that GL and OLTL might be the first soaps to experiment with the time reduction as they were the lowest rated. 

 

I always hoped networks would have reduced GL and ATWT as well as AMC and OLTL into 30 minute shows and package them as an hour block to affiliates. It would ultimately give affiliates an hour back in programming while still maintaining the shows on air where fans were used to tuning in to watch. Shifting OLTL and AMC online was a nice thought but it changed the entire dynamic of how people ordinarily consume their soaps...it wasn't like they were experimenting with new soaps. They were taking already established soaps and changing the familiarity as far as consumption for the audience.

I agree with you about reducing the struggling hours to half-hour shows and then selling the hour as a block. That would have been smart for CBS and ABC. The networks seem to forget that they can have a higher CPM in a half-hour soap versus an hour soap opera because there are fewer ads. Scarcity leads to higher ad prices. CBS could reduce Y&R to half an hour, lose one soundstage, halve the cast/crew/staff, up the ad price, and suddenly they'd have a very profitable show!

15 hours ago, Aback said:

Oh go on!!  

Oh, maybe another day! That's what I get for cruising message boards after three cocktails!

On 4/27/2020 at 4:23 PM, wingwalker said:

30 mins. It this age with all the entertainment options to choose from, it's much easier for someone to keep up with a 30 min soap. If you decide to binge a week's worth at once, and fast forward through the commercials, it adds up to the average length of a movie, which isn't bad.   

 

It's also better from a production standpoint in my opinion as well. I feel like 30 min soaps are more focused, the stories keep moving forward and you don't have characters having the same conversations day in and day out, just to fill time. 

 

I feel like Brad Bell does a really poor job taking advantage of B&B being 30 mins. I've watched several European soaps on and off, they are all mostly 30 mins and do a great job overall. 

Brad Bell can't tell a story. B&B would have been better off a decade ago if he handed off the show to a competent head writer and simply produced the show. That's all I'll say because I don't want to spill the tea (as they say...).

On 4/27/2020 at 9:02 AM, All My Shadows said:

I get your argument, but I feel is more of effective in discussing 60-minute soaps than it is in discussing 30-minute soaps. The characteristics of 30-minute soaps that you've described are due more to the period in which 30-minute soaps reigned (1960s and 1970s) than they are to the 30-minute format. This was before the VCR age, before the turn to action/adventure storylines, before the desperate pursuit of younger audiences, etc. Even Ryan's Hope, as a half-hour soap, was affected by these and became less dialogue-heavy as time went on.

For the record, I'm a big fan of dialogue-heavy soaps for the reasons @YRBB gave. When daytime was presided over by the classic writers, those scenes created a strong sense of character, relationships, and community. Agnes or Irna, I can't remember which one, called it "the luxury of time." Soaps had it, no other medium did, and once upon a time, soaps were soaps and catered to people who wanted to watch soaps.

I believe Irna said that either just before or just after the launch of ATWT. 

7 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

 

The first time was probably a way to give Lauralee something serious to cut her acting chops and make the audience see her as an adult. They did something similar with Caroline on B&B in 1987 (a virgin getting date raped). A lot of actors, character types, and storylines replay on early B&B and 80s Y&R.

 

 I don't think Bell was consulting anymore by the time Christine was raped by Paul (an awful and unnecessary storyline).

The Christine/Paul storyline was Kay Alden, not Bill Bell. 

2 minutes ago, FrenchFan said:

As I am in France, I use some VPN to catch live TV

Yeah... I'll need to use a VPN, lest I sign up for CBS All Access...which is still the stupidest name for a streaming service...

Does anyone have today's episode of Y&R (4/28/2020)? Newsom interrupted after the first half of the show just as I was super invested... *sigh* I'm thisclose to calling his office to ask them to interrupt The Talk or Dr. Phil. 

Wonderful! Thanks for sharing!!

15 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

30 minutes. I mean, to be fair, soaps are like 36 minutes now so ... lol

 

What's B&B's runtime without commercials? 19 minutes?

7.5 minutes if you cut out flashbacks and expository dialogue. 

On 4/9/2020 at 8:25 PM, antmunoz said:

Jessica Tuck’s character was apparently watching 1983 AMC last night on LITTLE FIRES EVERYWHERE. That is Daisy, no?

Oh, yes! That's Daisy! I noticed it, too!

Soaps are the one of the few mediums which have shifted and morphed in their time-slots throughout their history.

Which runtime do you think serves soaps best...and worst? 

 

Best: 30 minutes. Tight, succinct episodes told in three to five acts, depending on the writer. Soaps seemed to thrive in the half-hour format as pioneered by ATWT. 

Worst: 60 minutes. Way too much fat. Bloated casts. Shows burned through storyline with such gusto they ate themselves.  I think the only soap which did the hour well was Y&R because they seemed to treat it as two half-hour episodes. You had to watch because you never knew who might pop-up at the half-way mark! 

 

Honorable mention: 12.5 minutes. BBC Radio 4's The Archers packs a huge wallop with character development, tight stories, and large casts into a 12.5 minute soap. AND the episodes are engaging!

I really wish my governor would interrupt DR. PHIL instead of classic episodes of Y&R. 2/3 of the way through the ball, here comes Newsom... *sigh* 

2 hours ago, Aback said:

 

Was the video posted somewhere?

 Jack forces Jill to present Dru with a modeling contract, much to Jill's chagrin. Olivia confides in Neil about tests. Christine gets an offer from her law firm as Michael makes an unwanted advance.

1 hour ago, allmc2008 said:

What was special about the final? Of course, any moment of that show I would have loved to see!

I don't know much about the story sequence for WTHI, so the final episode which would give way to Y&R seems like a good place to start!  

9 hours ago, titan1978 said:

OLTL- Nancy Pinkerton’s Dorian killing Victor Lord.

I also would love to see the original Victoria Lord, and Carla and Sadie reunited.

 

AW- just more of the original actors in the Rachel/Steve/Alice storyline.

DAYS- More of Susan Flannery as Laura, and Denise Alexander as Susan when she was scheming.

 

Y&R- Kay finding out Jill and Philip, and also driving him over a cliff.

 

GH- early Lesley stuff

I watched (what I believe) is the only surviving episode of OLTL with Gillian Spencer as Viki and Nicki at UCLA a few months ago. They played an eerie theme when Viki closes her eyes and becomes Nicki. It also seemed that everyone knew about Nicki to some degree. Gillian Spencer was much more fragile and icy than Erika Slezak's Viki.

Since most soaps before 1975 were subject to wiping (or floods), a lot of soap history has been lost. Most of us only know about certain soap opera moments from recollections, industry magazines, and history books. What are some soap opera moments you didn't see, but you wish you had? 

 

AMC:

Erica's abortion

Ruth's anti-war speech

Brooke arrives in Pine Valley on the back of Benny Sago's motorcycle

 

ATWT:

The first episode (I've read the script, but I'd love to see it!)

Lisa's first episode (I've read the script, but I'd love to see it!)

Lisa leaves Oakdale for OUR PRIVATE WORLD.

 

AW:

Rachel's debut on AW

AW's first hour-long episode

 

DAYS

Mickey learns Bill is the father of his son & Laura's son, Mike

 

GL:

The first TV episode of GL

Bert learns she has uterine cancer

 

LOVE OF LIFE

Tuddi Wiggins debuts as Meg

Christopher Reeve debuts as Ben "Beanie" Harper

 

OLTL

The first appearance of Nikki Smith

Carla Gray sees her mother, Sadie, for the first time in years!

 

SEARCH FOR TOMORROW

Jennifer crashes through the plate glass window 

 

WHERE THE HEART IS

The final episode 

 

Y&R

Katherine witnessing Jill and Phillip in the stables

Leslie Brooks calling Lorie Brooks a bitch (which I've heard is the first time that word was uttered on US TV)

Nick Reed tries to rape his daughter, Nikki

The death of Phillip Chancellor, III

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, LondonScribe said:

I remember the Masquerade Ball. I saw it in 1994 because of the delay in transmission to the U.K. at that time. Can’t wait to see the episode. 
 

I got a real kick out of the David Kimble storyline as well. 

I've always wanted to see the ball. I love how they used the characters in costume for the ball as the inner illustrations for the Y&R 25th Anniversary book.

5 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

You enjoyed it so much you switched off halfway???

Haha. I grew up in an ABC Daytime household. My best friend would lend me her Y&R tapes so I could catch up and SOD helped, too!

I watched the classic episode tonight and it was an absolute treat. Victor, Nikki, Jill, Dru, John, Neil, Jack...Miguel!!! This episode showed the best of soap opera. What a soap can be and what it should be. The production values were top notch.   The writing was par none. The dialogue was perfect. This is the Y&R I’d watch for half an hour before tuning into AMC. How I miss it...