mikelyons

15 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Re Pam Peters/Peggy

From Tune In Tomorrow news column Oct 77

Peggy was confirmed as an 'infrequent cast member'

Pam says she quit the show five months ago but agreed to return from time to time.It says she was brought back for Jennifer's death and funeral.

From the beginning, Pam & her agents were fighting with Screen Gems about how little she was used on Y&R. She was getting a lot of offers for primetime work, but she couldn't accept it because of Y&R. She was only appearing on Y&R once a week and making $350 an episode. The argument from her camp was she was being under used and underpaid which could have been averted if Screen Gems would let her do primetime work when she wasn't on Y&R.

I created my first soap opera, LIFE'S JUST BEGUN, in the 8th grade during lunch because my classmate said I should write one. After that, it was off to the races. I don't remember much about it, but I did use those characters again years later for a thesis project re-titled AFFAIRS OF THE HEART. I later turned AOTH into a radio soap opera pilot. We shopped it around to US radio stations, but not enough bit to make a financially viable. AOTH was much more in the vein of a classic ABC soap with four intertwined families. The richest family in town were the black billionaire Russ family who came from Beverly Hills to Bedford Hills, IL (a stand-in for Evanston). The old money family were the Livingstons, followed by the very middle class Greenfields. Sylvia Russ, Ian Greenfield, and Rich Livingston were all best friends who attended the same private school. Their friendship gave the show its thread of connection. Additionally, Alisa Greenfield worked as Jacob Livingston's assistant. A fourth family was to be added gradually over the first season. 

The other two soaps I created throughout my teenage years were DAY BY DAY (the first soap bible I've ever written), THE SWEETNESS AND THE SORROW. SWEETNESS was more of a nod to early-Y&R and THE SECRET STORM. DAY BY DAY was really a product of the mid-to-late-90s.

I stopped creating soaps for a long while due to selling AOTH, but I hit upon a show I've been pitching on and off for years called SCIONS. It really uses the UK soap opera production model and their aspects of pacing and storytelling versus the US soap model. SCIONS is one show I can say is my very own in terms of tone, characterizations, plotting, etc. I made a very clear decision not to imitate any of the US or UK soaps and let this one have a life of its own. During the pitching process, I've written it as a web series, a standard daytime drama, a primetime drama, and then a three-day-a-week serial. In my opinion, the three day a week serial works much better for the format.

As I told my boyfriend last night, there are times I really wish I didn't have this lasting affinity for soaps, but here we are!

17 hours ago, will81 said:

I wonder also if it has to do with how isolated the Y&R cast were in story. Many of the main long running cast had little chance to work with each other, and probably rarely saw actors that were not in their characters story spheres.

 

I know Eileen/Beth/Jerry and Terry were all super close, but they spent most of their time together. Tracey B and Beth were also friendly and Kimberlin and Tracey B also seemed to have had at least a close working relationship as well. 

 

Through the 90's Peter was mostly isolated to The Abbotts and Newman's. Maybe none of them liked him, haha, but they all secretly got together when he wasn't around. Jokes

 

Everyone loved Jeanne too and many cast are still friendly with each other. Brenda D has been seen with a few different ex and current cast members and it seems Eileen and Brenda Epperson became friends as well. 

 

I think on set it was just a serious business, and that may have had to do with how Bell ran the show back then. He was very specific about how scripts should be performed and according to Jeanne they were given six or seven takes to do it (not sure which period of the show this was, I know on the 70's it was apparently live to tape) Not sure about other shows but Y&R always seemed like a heavy production load for the actors. They were probably sick of seeing each other.

Y&R's classic production model 80s-00s was very segmented. You wouldn't see or work with anyone other than the actors in your scenes. Everything is taped on one set before moving to another set, which means call times, arrivals, departures, hair and make-up calls, are all staggered from 7AM-7PM. 

For instance:

7AM Call: Newman Boardroom (Act 2, Scene 3; Act 3, Scene 1, Act 5, Scene 2)

Victoria, Jack, Victor, Ashley, Jill

9AM Call: Crimson Lights (Prologue A, Scene 1; Prologue B, Scene 3; Act Four, Scene 1)

Mackenzie, Nick, Sharon, Billy, JT, Brittany

11AM Call: Chancellor Living Room (Prologue B, Scene 4; Act 1, Scene 1; Act 3, Scene 2)

Kay, Esther, Nikki, Jill, Mackenzie, Brock

In this example, during the morning, Jill & Mac would be around for most of the morning, but if Victoria was done with her scenes after the Newman Boardroom scenes, she would CERTAINLY go home. 

ABC soaps would have everyone come in for a 7AM rehearsal (Y&R rehearsed on the sets and then shot), then do camera blocking, lunch, dress rehearsal, and then a final taping. So, yes, the cast were together all day, every shooting day. This is nicely illustrated in the All My Children behind the scenes video from 1993 or so. 

With soap eliminating rehearsals or whatnot, there must be zero time spent socializing since the producers want actors to nail a scene on the first take (which is impossible and needs to stop).

Lastly, Y&R would used to shoot six episodes in a week. Monday was dark, but then they would strip a show across the week (shooting those scenes throughout the week when the director was working) to save a day and bank of vacations. 

The model of shooting eight episodes in a week comes from either ABC or NBC and the results are blatant on screen. ATWT and GL would shoot on this schedule around 2003 to simply save time on crew and studio space. 

2 hours ago, OzFrog said:

Vee, have a look at this. I’ve linked the playlist (it’s all of 1989). The takeover storyline begins around May/June, if I recall correctly. 

 

Ooo... Thanks for sharing!

I’m still holding out that one day we’ll see Phillip Chancellor, III’s death and the aftermath. 

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Cricket was only there for spring break and summer stories at that time. It wasn't until summer 1986 that Lauralee Bell joined the cast full time and Cricket proceeded to eat the show for the remainder of the 1980s.

Eat it like a plague.

1 minute ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Yep, it says episodes number one and two, from March of 1973, will be broadcast again this Monday, July 20, 2020.

 

Please record them, people, particularly the second episode. We may never get the chance to see and save this episode again. (The debut ep is already available among collectors.)

The second episode of Y&R is Brenda Dickson (and Jill's) first episode of Y&R.

42 minutes ago, ~bl~ said:

That story about the soap that shall not be named is horrifying mikelyons though not surprising. It seems like daytime has been like that for ages if you are in and have a strong ally than you can work, otherwise not. The person who blocked you, argh. I was told decades ago, if someone is seen as too much of a "fan" of a particular program it was more difficult to even get an internship interview, so it seems like they really appreciate people who are ignorant. Of course, if one hires that way in a few months you will probably need someone else.

 

With the writers' room, well again many hires are people who just want to hold on to their jobs, and go from show to show, so the lack of any diversity is not a shock. Also for the most part I doubt they actually have a room, correct?

The primetime writers' room varies from soap to soap. I know AMC required most of their writers to live in or around NYC since the breakdown writers and head writer would meet in a conference room. Other soaps are written remotely with tons of calls, emails, etc. It's just the preference of the show's owner and/or head writer.

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

@mikelyons A fascinating read to all your hardship trying to break into soaps.

 

I'll guess that your member friend here is Graybunny as he interned at Y&R. And the soap you are referring to that treated you badly is B&B. I am confused though..you were at two soaps or one?

Btw wasn't Lynn Martin another black writer in soaps?

I was at two soaps over two summers.

I never wrote for Promises, but I tried like hell to get a script read for consideration. I would have written sample scenes or a few sample scripts just to get in the door.

We interns were unpaid labor, but most of us were lucky. Our parents paid for our rent, living expenses, cars, etc. while we interned on the soaps. It was truly a position a certain level of privilege could provide.

I'm glad I was able to offer some insight to the behind the scenes of American soaps. As I mentioned before, I have hesitated for a long time about telling this story in a public forum for a variety of reasons. However (with prodding from my boyfriend), I finally felt like it was the right moment to put it out there in some form. 

I once had a script turned down by a talent agency because there wasn't enough cursing in it. That's when I threw in the towel. It's not worth it. I'd rather thrive in my world than exist in yours.

Again, I'll answer any questions or provide further commentary. 

Be well & stay safe!

25 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

My heart goes out to you, @mikelyons. Having experienced this industry from the cable TV side as a black gay man and suffered similar indignities, a lot of your story hits home. So happy that you’re living your best life now. 

Thanks for sharing your message. It can be rough out there, but, somehow, one keeps going...

We've talked a lot about racism and representation with characters and actors, I'd like to share my experience as a black guy who interned and tried to work in daytime. My memories are below. You can ask me anything and I'll try to answer it. I have long left daytime behind and with everything going on now, some memories have re-surfaced and I hope by writing this it excises them once and for all. -MikeLyons

I have long hesitated as to whether or not I should share my story about working on daytime soaps, but with the conversations being had about racism in Soap Land, I felt it may be helpful…or encourage someone else to speak about their experiences. This is an experience I do not speak about often; only a few extremely close friends and my parents are aware of my experiences as a black man in daytime soaps. 

I grew up on soaps as did my parents and grandparents. Some of my earliest memories are re-enacting Natalie and Janet’s well scenes from All My Children. We had a family voicemail system growing up and my recorded message featured “Nadia’s Theme”. Yeah. I was that guy. I didn’t grow up in a world of overt or micro-racism. I grew up in a very wealthy college town sandwiched between two well-known universities and surrounded by other wealthy towns and counties. My peers and classmates were of every race, creed, religion, whatever. One of my classmates’ mother was a VP at MTV; the father of my sister’s friend was a diplomat with the United Nations. We only cared about a few things: Being kids, going to the mall, chatting on the phone, and dreaming of the future.

During college, I landed an internship on a daytime soap opera. (Note: For very personal reasons, I will not divulge the name of the soap or the folks who I encountered. Aliases will be used going forward).  I was in heaven because I didn’t think I’d get it. At the time, I was living in London and only submitted my resume as a lark. After a phone interview, they offered me a position as a production intern on their soap. (Note: There is a member of this forum who I met on this soap! This isn’t a fable.) On my first day, I met the internship coordinator, who was quite surprised to see that I was not the white guy my name and voice would have led them to believe. 

Nope. Sorry. 

I spent the summer in the US learning daytime drama from the ground up. One of our tasks as interns was to write a synopsis for every script which was placed in the front of the production script so people could scan the synopsis to get the feel for an episode. I relished this task since I wanted to become a soap opera writer. To ensure they were “right”, I labored over my synopses until I felt they hit the mark. Over the course of the summer, I became known for my synopses. One of the producers told me in the booth, “We love your synopses the best!” That was the single best piece of validation a production intern could receive. All in all, my experience on that soap opera was great. At the time, I didn’t really notice that the black people who worked on the stage of this soap opera were employees of the network which owned the studio and leased it, along with its studio staff, to the soap. They were not employees of the soap opera’s owner. Upstairs in the office, the interns were the most diverse group of people and we were unpaid labor. Outside of us, there were two non-white production office employees. All of the writers were white. Same for the directors. And producers. And network executives. At the time, I didn’t notice because I was having the time of my life and I didn’t grow up concerned about race. Had I paid attention, it would have prepared me for my move to another daytime soap opera and one of the most degrading moments of my life.

Through a strong connection I made on the first soap opera, I became quite friendly with two very respected people on my second daytime soap opera. We’ll call this show Promises. I didn’t really like Promises as a viewer, but it was a chance to continue building my daytime resume. Around March, Peter (not this real name) told me that they were beginning to look for interns, to send him my resume, and he would vouch for me as would Nancy (not her real name). Besides, he reasoned, if the first soap opera was so pleased with my work, especially on script synopses, that would make me a shoe-in. I’d need to do a phone interview and that was it. Well, the internship coordinator took an instant disliking to me from the get-go. We’d met before and she seemed nice enough, but when it came time to build her team, she was prickly, cool, and aloof. She insisted I go to the city where Promises was shot for an interview. I told her that I was in Hong Kong for the next two weeks, but I’d be happy to do it over the phone. Nancy and Peter lobbied for me to the coordinator, we did the phone interview, and I got the gig. 

My first day on Promises was fine enough, but, on that show, I quickly realized I was the only black intern there (thankfully not the only gay person), save for the daughter of one of the studio’s employees who was non-white, and one non-white person on the production team. I didn’t let this bother me because I was focused on the end goal. However, that gleeful ignorance quickly worked against me. 

Every soap opera director receives lighting plots which are blueprints of every set with all of the props, furniture, etc. laid out on it. This helps the director plot movement with the talent, tell the lighting department how to light a scene, informs wardrobe, etc. One day, the internship coordinator (who never warmed to me, no matter how many expensive cupcakes I brought in), asked me to make copies of the lighting plots from Sam, the director currently directing in the booth, distribute them, and return them to Sam. I followed the distribution list to the letter, ensured everyone had a copy, and went to the booth. Sam was in the middle of directing a scene. You are NEVER to disturb a director when they’re directing, not even if their hair is on fire. So, I placed the lighting plots to Sam’s left and left the studio. Well, about ten minutes later, a call comes into the production office and the internship coordinator takes unbridled glee in informing that Sam wants to see me in the booth. Okay… I make my way to the booth where Sam proceeds to tear into me for a good five minutes about how I never returned the lighting plots, what was I doing, and the like. Sam did this in front of the supervising producer, production assistant, technical director, and lighting director. I stood there and kept my cool. When Sam finished said tirade, I calmly pointed to the lighting plots still to Sam’s left and said that I’d left them there because I thought they’d be seen after the scene had ended. Once Sam saw them, Sam (with more venom I’d ever experienced) dismissed me and that was that. The pure ire in that booth was palpable. No one had ever spoken to me like that before or since. I was in my very early twenties, was going to university in London, traveling the world, and had recently attended an event in the presence of royalty. So, maybe it was ego, but I took a distinct disliking to Sam, which I felt was mutual. We never spoke again…and that incident in the booth would haunt me for years to come. 

After the run-in with Sam, the publicity office of Promises had a problem: Their publicity assistant had left and they needed someone to write synopses for a backlog of scripts. Unlike the synopses for the other soap, these would be distributed to all of the soap opera magazines and other outlets for publication. I didn’t know it, but Soap Opera Digest doesn’t write the synopses at the back of the magazine; those are provided by each show. Nancy and Peter were the ones who put me forward to go to Publicity to help them catch-up based on my previous work on the other soap opera. I went to Publicity to get away from the hostile internship coordinator and to steer clear of that director. For the next three weeks or so, I read hundreds of scripts, wrote synopses, and helped with other publicity related tasks. I was thrilled a few weeks later to open one of the soap opera magazines to find my synopsis re-printed word for word. Publicity thanked me for my work and we always stayed on good terms. I went back to the production office where Peter and Nancy took me under their wing and out of the grasp of the internship coordinator. Peter and Nancy heard through the grapevine what Sam had done. They were apologetic, but nothing was ever done about it. To this day, Sam has never apologized. I really kept my head down for the remainder of the summer, never told anyone that story, and got on with university and my life.

After graduating from university, I moved back to the city where Promises was filmed. Peter and Nancy, my allies at Promises, were still employed there. At that time, I’d found employment as an assistant at a talent agency, which was good money with a lot of demanding actors, some of whom have become legitimate stars. I was accepted into one of the daytime writing programs, but the program was shut down a few weeks later as an omen to come for daytime. One day, Peter let me know that Promises was hiring for a publicity assistant because the last one hadn’t worked out. He told me to send him my resume, which he’d pass along. According to Peter, since I worked with Publicity and the people who ran the department really liked me, it was my job to lose. Guess how this story ends. I go into the first interview with Kelly, the person I’m going to work under. Kelly tells me about the job, that it does require travel, knowledge of the show, etc. Since Kelly and I knew each other we delved deep into how I could become an asset, grow in the role, and the like. Good start, right?

I was called in for a second interview which would involve the producers and Kelly. Peter’s only advice was not to tell them I wanted to write. They didn’t like that. Okay, fine. I walked into the second interview and my heart dropped. Sam was sitting across the table from me. I answered all of their questions, saw the excitement on Kelly’s face, and thought it could work since I wouldn’t work with Sam. I returned to my job at the agency that same day when I received a phone call from Kelly. The show decided to hire the other guy who had no soap opera experience, didn’t know Promises, and was greener than grass. Kelly and Peter had lobbied hard, but – for reasons I’m still murky on – they hired the white person who was fired six months later. I considered this a humiliating defeat, to say the least. I enrolled in graduate school in London, quit my job at the agency, and took two years to learn the business of business. 

During those two years, I developed a strong TV drama script which I’d submitted to a prestigious festival (by someone who was a big deal in UK soaps) and I was a Top 5 finalist. I submitted that script blind to RTE in Dublin on a whim. Two weeks later, a script editor called me about writing sample scenes for their top-rated television show, Fair City. I wrote a few scenes, submitted them, and they wanted to work with me to (eventually) become a writer on the soap. Unfortunately, RTE got into a fight with Ireland’s actors union about residuals, so the show was yanked offline for a few years. That ended that. 

I returned to the USA, moved to a new city, and wound up living around the corner from a very formidable soap opera writer from the first soap I’d worked on. We’d met a few times on the first soap opera, I stayed in touch, and I tried to see if I could submit the same script for consideration. Let’s just say that conversation was really uncomfortable and basically ended because they were “really busy”. 

I tried again with the head writer of Promises, but I was met with stony silence. This is the same head writer who made a writer out of the white male casting assistant (who only took the job because he wanted to be an actor) who had no prior writing experience and then made the same “writer” a producer on Promises. I was befuddled. I let it go and moved on with my life.

A few years later, I returned to the city where Promises is filmed. Peter told me that they were hiring for a receptionist position, which he knew I was overqualified for, but it would get me in the door. Two of the main qualifications for the job were: You had to have a college degree and you needed to know how to write since writing synopses were a big part of the job. Once again, I went into the interview with a clear mind and an edict not to tell them that I wanted to write. Upon entering the conference room, I saw Peter, the head writer, some producers, the new producer from the first soap I’d interned on (with whom I was friendly), and…Sam…sitting there smirking at me. I did what I could, but they wound up hiring the white child of someone on the production staff who hadn’t even graduated from college…and, according to Peter, this person couldn’t write to save their life. Needless to say, I was gutted, but life moves on and so did I. 

Maybe a year or so later, they were hiring for another position which Peter told me about. I expressed my reservations to Peter from the get-go. For some reason, he really wanted me on Promises even after two failed interviews. The third interview went the way of the other two. According to Peter, they hired the person with less experience, who didn’t know the show, and was a white person. After that experience, I told Peter in no uncertain terms to never tell me about another open position at Promises ever again. It took me a long time to come to terms with how soul crushing it was to have been championed and lobbied for by white people in power, but to be overridden so they can hire an underqualified white person who’s a better “cultural fit” and they end up firing in six months. If you’ve never felt that feeling of confusion and embarrassment, consider yourself lucky. 

Over the next few years, I tried to submit scripts to Promises, but they were never read or considered while they kept hiring inexperienced new writers. Undeterred, I continued to write for a spell. Some of my scripts were well received and nominated for awards. A few digital shows I’ve written and produced have been distributed around the world as well as being nominated and winning various awards. It took me a long time to realize it wasn’t me; it was the insidious racism at Promises. 

By the time of my second interview, the only non-white member of the production staff was gone. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been another non-white member of their production staff who wasn’t a part of their studio package.  

In all of daytime, only one non-white person has produced a soap opera: Albert Alarr. Michele Val Jean is the only black woman to solely head write a soap opera; the Ryan Quan is the only non-white man to come close to it (as he is Ron Carlavati’s co-head writer). Susan Dansby is one of the only black women (other than Val Jean) to write for a soap opera. When I interned on Promises, they didn’t have a single black character on their show unless they needed extras or had a prison scene. In retrospect, I was trying to become the first black man to write a daytime soap opera and even my white allies couldn’t secure a job for me on Promises with their collective clout and experience. The mountain, as I’ve experienced it, is impossible to breach when people decide to never let you have a foothold to take that first step.

If I could give the remaining four soap operas any advice it would be this: Enough with your passive aggressive behavior, shoddy hiring practices, and systematic racism. If everyone in your office looks like you, you are part of the problem. You cannot write for other voices and viewpoints when yours has been homogenized to the point of idiocy. It was taken me a long time to realize it, but I was only allowed into daytime on the first soap opera based on my resume – pure merit. Had they actually known I was black before they hired me, I may not be here to tell the tale. Once Promises was in a position to hire me (who was a known quantity to them), they rebelled at ever instance from my phone interview through my third and final interview. 

Life has been kind to me. I have my own company, have a great home, a wonderful partner, travel the world at my will, and report to no one but myself. Life has a way of working itself out. Daytime was a part of my college years, nothing more. Don’t worry; I have a very lovely life.

21 hours ago, Vizion said:

This seems like a very thinly veiled attack on Eric Braeden - who has used cue cards. 

17 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

 

It's kind of disappointing. It's a repeat after all and it was posted online. If they reair it again it's taking away an episode from us. It's not like that one is so great that it must air on TV.

 

I actually like next week's picks, except for the 2019.

 

@mikelyons I uploaded the last 4 classics in the vault https://bit.ly/2A3Bnhv created by @ChickenNuggetz92 along with a bunch of episodes from 1999 (the "I Will Crush You" week). Hoping more people will post stuff there. You don't need an account to do so and you can open the link in incognito mode.

 

The B&B vault seems to be far more active than the Y&R. Sadly I just noticed BobTV who was posting a ton of soaps on YT (used to be genoacityguy) got his account terminated. I wish I knew how to get in touch with him. This is the worst YT has been in a while and the vault provides a good backup.

Many thanks!!!

3 minutes ago, janea4old said:

July 1: December 29, 1994

 

 

HA!

On 6/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, kalbir said:

July 1: December 29, 1994

Does anyone have the full December 29, 1994 episode which re-aired on July 1st? It was preempted halfway through for another news conference in the Los Angeles market.

On 6/18/2020 at 12:51 PM, ChickenNuggetz92 said:

To some, Davetta Sherwood might not have been Lily - but she was definitely Dru's daughter. 

She was Lily to me more than Christel Khalil! I thoroughly enjoyed watching the 2006 episode because I skipped Nick & Phyllis. 

Steve Burton was an utter disaster on Y&R, no wonder he ran back to GH. 

AMC tried to make Zander, Raquel, and Kit happen. Have any of them appeared on TV since?

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

I *really* want someone to blow a lid on the Teflon and racist soap industry in the US. I feel everything will change or evolve *except* daytime soaps. 

It's coming. Hang tight.

15 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

 

That scene is so, so good. Jill's outburst that she's "not going to turn into a pathetic old woman whose trying to hold onto something she can't keep" was so fearlessly acted. 

 

It was not part of Jess Walton's Emmy reel and in hindsight that was a mistake because it is a powerful scene. When Sean finally leaves and she rushes over to the bar cart, looks at the decanters of alcohol, then looks in the mirror, and then sobs, you can see that in a split second Jill decided to be everything Katherine could not be - to face her pain head on, and to cry. For me, this scene expressed Jill's pain at seeing happiness slip away from her own inability to get past the age difference between her and Sean and that said bigger things about women and love and aging. Having seen this scene again after all these years, I would bring back Sean in a heartbeat for Jill and give them a second chance. 

 

One thing the airing of the classic episodes has hammered home is just how good Jess Walton is and how important her interpretation of Jill is to the canvas. Have we seen a single episode where she phoned it in or wasn't excellent?

 

I loved the Lauren/Isabela scene as Lauren gets right under her skin, looking like Jill St. John in Diamonds Are Forever.

 

Speaking of diamonds, Katherine decked out in so many diamonds it's obscene was a treat to see.

Kay in diamonds was always a must. Thanks a lot, LML. 

I really loved the June 3, 2020 airing of Y&R. The angst, the drama, the love... Seeing Katherine, Mac, Amanda, Isabel, Ashley, Traci, Billy, Jill, Jack, Victoria, Ryan, Olivia, Brad, Colleen, Sharon, Neil...all of them...on screen was a gift. Any time I can see Ashley unsettled is a great episode!

I especially loved the subtext of Jill not wanting to become Kay in the scene where she ends it with Sean (that was Sean, right?). 

If anyone has the original broadcast of this episode (or the next one!), I'd love to see it.

9 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

Oh this was fantastic! It appears Bill Bell modeled Stephanie/Brooke after Jill/Katherine a bit.

 

I didn’t realize Brooke was already a ho in the early years of Bold. It’s amazing that literally nothing has changed about her except Stephanie’s dead.

I recall reading an interview where she found the taping schedule to be a lot and to be happy back at Y&R. It’s been some years since I read it. I believe the pay was an issue as well. As I said it’s been years so maybe I’m misremembering.

I can't speak to if Eileen "hates" DAYS. HOWEVER, at Y&R, they pay for the actors' lunch while the dressing rooms & studios are in bad repair at DAYS. Personally, I'd take a free lunch... 

Vanessa & Meg hated/disliked/tolerated each other for most of Love of Life's 29 year run.

I wouldn't say they had a real rivalry once Tara left the show, but Erica Kane NEVER liked Tara Martin! She married her Tara's brother, slept with her son, and married her high school sweetheart to boot!

Susan & Kim (ATWT)

Phyllis & Sharon have been going at it since Cassie's death (Y&R)

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

OTOH, you'd have a white billionaire adopting a poor Black child, which only works when that child is Gary Coleman (and even then, the whole idea is questionable).

Fair enough! I concur. 

However, Eric Braeden and Bryton had great scenes together when Devon was introduced on Y&R. I would have loved for them to develop and explore their relationship, be it mentor/mentee, father figure, ally, friend, advisor...not shunt Devon off to the kitchenette for ten years.

7 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

I was looking at old episode counts it is a testament that Bryton has survived so long as Devon. I mean Bryton was a contract player who only appeared in a total of 20 episodes in 2010, he was almost a goner.

20 episodes?!? They paid him to appear in one and a half episodes per month?? I would bet his guarantee was at least 2 episodes A WEEK and his episodic fee had to be nice due to his long career before stepping foot in Genoa City. Wow. Just wow. 

Just now, Aback said:

 

Should we mention Latham's Ji Min (I was crazy about him) and lawyer Rafe?

I loved Ji Min Kim, but they shipped him out.

Let us never forget David Chow. Was he meant to be of Asian descent or did LML have a three martini lunch when she created him?

18 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

Devon’s treatment has been appalling from the jump. From his early afterschool special stories to the WTF out-of-nowhere banging of the woman he had up to then thought was his aunt, to his almost entirely offscreen relationship with Tatyana Ali’s Roxanne that went on for YEARS, to his muddled genealogy, to his chaste flirtations with various white characters (Abby, Chloe, Victoria), to the useless plot point of his billion-dollar inheritance, he’s been a disaster as a character. It’s a testament to Bryton and his popular pairing with Mishael Morgan that he’s viable at all.

When Devon was first introduced via the community center, he had wonderful scenes with Victor. Had Victor adopted Devon, that may have been a quite dynamic storyline, especially if Devon was interested in Lily and the Winters' were split over their relationship.