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j swift

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Posts posted by j swift

  1. On 10/29/2019 at 12:10 PM, dragonflies said:


    I've read this headline 12 times and I still don't know what it means. 


    Is it a performance art piece?  A sculpture of the Capwell Villa?  Miniature dioramas of the whole town? 


    Does the Icelandic artist have a US publicist or does Daytime Confidential read Pravda on a daily basis to get soap scoops?   

  2. On 10/22/2019 at 3:03 AM, AbcNbc247 said:

    Why did NBC give up on Generations so quickly? Pretty much every NBC soap was at the bottom of the ratings in its first year or two. What was different about this one?

    There was a SOD article (summarized in our classic SOD thread) that suggested it was Generations time slot, and not creative issues, that were to blame for its cancellation.  It was on in the early non-contiguous slot, so it didn't get habitual soap watchers like a soap that would have been placed after AW.


    Also, Faith Daniels was an up and comer at NBC, and after the tumult surrounding Jane Pauley leaving Today in 1989, Daniels was given her own talk show in Generations time slot rather than further destabilizing the apple cart.   It's neither the first time nor the last time that NBC overspent on a blond reporter who proved to be too stiff for daytime audiences.

  3. I don't know, (or probably just can't recall) what the story was with Roscoe Born and the production.  Can someone fill me in?  Also, what was up with the two week recast of Flame?


    The only details that I am aware of are from the 90-91 SOD news recaps we covered from Tumblr in another thread.  SOD reported that Roscoe was initially brought in for a short term story as a spanner for Cruz and Eden when the mob was trying to take over Capwell Industries.  He later left to do pilot season.  However, he proved to be so popular that the production brought him back, re-paired him with Kelly, and created the Quinn storyline.  Then, the Dobson's returned and did not seem to understand Robert's appeal as a character as he lost some of his charm and became a full-time bad guy.


    However, all of the discussion of Born walking off the set has been completely forgotten and I would appreciate any details that one can recall.  I've muted those who can't seem to stay on topic so, I look forward to responses from people who can remember the facts.


    One other thought - The Walkers are emblematic to me of a pendulum swing on soaps after the glitz of 1980's met the stock market crash of the 1990's.  Except, (IMO), soap audiences don't want gritty realism.  We want escape, ladies who wear hats to lunch, and shirtless stable boys.  And we certainly don't want a middle class family fronted by the woman who made Reva Shayne into one of the most glitzy gals in daytime.  


    Final/final thought (of the night), I wonder if Laura Asher, Micah DeAngelis, and Jodie Walker all suffered from the old soap disease of relying too often on hiring actors who had been hits on others shows?  Each of those characters were a distinct shift from the actor's prior roles and the audience may have been more welcoming if they had been played by an actor who had not been so closely associated with a prior role on another soap.


    OK, final/final/final thought - What was the primary source of income for Capwell Industries?  I thought they were primarily commercial real estate developers with restaurants, hotels, casinos, and country clubs.  But at other times weren't they involved in tech and medicine?

  4. My quibble with the notion of not ruining what works is that there is an argument to be made that focusing on Eden and Cruz for so long was part of the demise of the soap.  Because subsequent writers and producers were unable to grow new families and find new arenas for story-telling, once Eden and Cruz broke up there was an enormous void.  I am not discounting the evolution of Gina and Keith, Julia and Mason, and other couples that became popular, but the focus was always drawn back to Cruz and Eden.


    Look at AMC and the Chandlers, Y&R and the Newmans, and OLTL and the Buchanans.  Each of those families were late entries into the story but they furthered the plot.  If each producer only kept what had been from prior regimes then a soap devolves into repetition and a lack of creativity (e.g. B&B).

  5. 2 hours ago, Khan said:

    Those bitches were just too basic to appreciate the majesty that was young Alexis.


    ("Young Alexis," by the way, would make for a KILLER series -- with Dame Joan narrating her character's young adventures, of course.)

    As someone who is totally confused by the re-boot, I really like this idea.  A series about early Alexis, meeting Blake, hiring the staff, etc would be fun.  

  6. 32 minutes ago, te. said:

    Leslie was the official Amanda replacement - suddenly appearing as Ben's daughter/Blake's niece after Amanda mysteriously went to London never to be ever mentioned again on the show. 

    I never enjoyed the long lost relatives of Blake (with the exception Dominique).  However, between Caress and Sable, the writers could write in as many of the Morells as possible.  I was always amused that none of Alexis's relatives liked her from an early age.

  7. Not to repeat myself but, when I re-watched season 1 & 2 of Dallas, I loved the original version of Miss Ellie when she was a bit more of a Lady Mcbeth.  Early in the series there are multiple scenes with Ellie and Sue-Ellen where she is telling her daughter-in-law to hurry up and get pregnant or Pam was going to have the first born heir to Southfork.  Later in the series Sue Ellen's mother played a similar role, but I was amused that Miss Ellie was not always as sweet as she appeared in later seasons.  


    I like a bitchier Miss Ellie because it explains more of JR's motivations and sets the stage for the Bobby/JR feud that was later heightened by Jock's will.  Also, Jock's will was one of the best dramatic devices in response to the death of an actor that has ever been played out on a soap.  One has to wonder if Jim Davis had lived would the series have lasted as long?

  8. On 10/24/2019 at 1:18 PM, amybrickwallace said:


    See, that would have made sense - hence why they recast a European princess with an American Valley Girl!! 😝

    I remember from the E! bts show on Dynasty that the Amanda issue was three-fold.  First, Joan Collins had just tried to have a sick-out in order to get more money, so when Catherine Oxenberg asked for more they didn't want to start a presidence.  Second, the follow-up season to the Moldavian massacre was when Dynasty started to slip in the ratings.  Third, once they recast Amanda, The Colby's was cancelled, so the return of Fallon to Denver made Amanda redundant.

  9. I agree that Gina and Brandon's relationship was refreshing for a soap mom and son duo.  It was certainly less oedipally creepy than Warren and Augusta's and more attentive than Sophia and Ted's relationship.  Gina's love for Brandon also made Santana untenable, because there was no way to sympathize with her when she essentially sold her baby and her maternal instinct mostly involved kidnapping attempts. 


    That being said, I would have been there front and center for a SORASed Brandon who had many of Channing Jr's a-hole-Capwell-centric qualities which were conflicted by his relationship with Gina once she became a Lockridge.


    For me the unanswered question of the Dobson's return is  - What was the outcome of their case against NBC and New World?  How much was their settlement?  It seemed to be enough that they never had to work again.  How did they win in the negotiation?  Did NBC or New World have to pay them off when they left the second time?  It couldn't have all really hinged on the casting of Pamela?  There had to be more in their initial contract that allowed them to regain their position.  BTW, these questions are rhetorical and I don't really expect anyone to know the answer (that means you DB).


    Just to go back for a moment, imagine that NBC build a soundstage and set of offices just for them and then to be locked out of that very facility had to be heartbreaking.  I agree with the critiques of their second tenure, but I have a hard time getting my mind off of that detail.

  10. I would rewatch a cut of the George Rawlins murder mystery.  At the time I found it to be rambling and unfocused.  However, I would imagine that cut together as a single story it would hold together and the twists and turns would seem more intriguing.


    However, there is the character of George's niece (a beautiful brunette with a voice that sounded like she had a constant stuffy nose) who also seemed to just disappear.  I remember thinking when Brad inherited the Rawlins estate, after his brief marriage to Cassandra, that the niece really got screwed in the will. 

  11. 1 hour ago, Wendy said:

    I have said before that, upon round #2 of the Dobsons' return, that they seemed to want to pick up from where they had left off, in 1987. However, like it or not, anthed I realize they didn't, time and the characters marched on. So trying to shove the characters back into the roles the Dobsons had made for them by and large no longer worked.

    I completely agree but reading this I also felt compassion for them - imagine having the biggest creative achievement of your career snatched away from you and being literally locked out of the studio.  It must have been really painful and I can sympathize with their reaction of trying to go back to the way it was rather than start over. 


    However, progress is inevitable and their inability to work well with others was their undoing.

  12. I would love a Mad Men like memoir of the P&G execs who oversaw the soaps.  We've read Lemay's account of their incompetence, but I would hazard to guess that the P&G exces have another perspective.  They could provide a unique history from the commercial buyers of how and why the shows worked to sell their product, and at what point in history it no longer worked.  I recall there was an academic tome about P&G and the soaps, but I bet there is someone still around who has the scoop, and could tell the story from a production standpoint. 

  13. 18 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

    I always felt like Santana should have been a consistent character on the show...the show's Latina heroine...but they never quite found the actress I think.

    I especially agree with this from the perspective of Eden and Cruz's pairing.  Santana was never a viable threat to their romance. 


    On paper she should have been amazing.  She bedded Channing, CC, and Mason.  She had Channing's baby, then was sent off to Europe, and returned to be a glamorous interior decorator.  She should have been foe to Eden not only for Cruz but also to her relationship with her father.  The underlying Electra complex of the Eden/CC relationship should have been threatened by the fact that Santana, a woman of a similar age to Eden was a romantic interest of her father. 


    Instead, the character lost her glamour, and became a pathetic pill-popper (no offense to pill-poppers).   In the pilot she was clearly trying to distance herself from her identity as the maid's daughter.  However, later iterations tried to play Santana as a humble gal in contrast to Eden's glamour.   She should have been the catalyst for Sophia and Eden to unite against her and maintain their family structure.  However, she seems to have become redundant by Gina, who had grown so close to Brandon that it would have seemed cruel to break them up.

  14. 1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

    In it's second week on air Loving dropped from a 4.9/18 share to a 3.9/10.

    So there was initial interest but then ratings dropped.

    That was probably expected.


    As I recall it was very slow start from a plotline perspective.


    Of course, Geraldine Page and Lloyd Bridges' characters were never seen or heard from again after the pilot.  So the fun and promise of the melodrama from the first episode didn't translate into the first weeks/months.


    And Lily and Jack storyline with her abusive father didn't start until closer to the summer months.  So, there was a lot of introductions and exposition to get through in the first few weeks.  

  15. 19 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

    For those of you that remember the Dobson's brief return, what did you think of the stories they developed? I felt they started off pretty strong and reset a lot of stuff (Mason for example, Santana's return), but the stories didn't have the magic of the earlier ones for some reason. Still, there work is 100X better than what we're getting today on the last 4.

    I think the Dobson's return was hampered by a loss of continuity, as well as the exit of Marcy Walker.  They made a point of saying in SOD upon their return that they had not watched the show because it was too painful.  As a result, the progress that characters had made in their absence was lost and it seemed like the story was going backward rather than forward.  For example, much has been made over the Capwell dinner party scenes.  It is a very well written and acted episode, but the plot comes out of left field. 


    Mason decides to put CC on trial for his "crimes" against the family, and in turn brings back Pamela and eviscerates Sophia.  However, CC and Mason had resolved their differences in a scene the prior year.  In fact, for most of Terry Lester's Mason, (in the year prior to the Dobson's return), he and CC did not have a lot of interactions because he was being plagued by Gina and his alternate Sonny personality.  Gordon Thompson's Mason arrived two months before the Dobson's and did not have the history with CC to carry those dinner party scenes.    


    Mason also knew that Pamela was a mortal threat to Kelly, but still brought her out of the asylum. So, it seemed like Mason had lost his memories of recent events, rather than plotting to have a family coup against CC.  I've always thought that by 1991 Gina deserved much more of Mason's wrath than CC.


    Also, the month before their return at Christmas, Eden received a necklace/jewel from Robert Barr which began her memories of being a jewel thief and her eventual exit storyline.  However, none of this is referenced in the dinner party scenes, where Eden appears to revert back to her bratty/father's girl issues of before her wedding to Cruz.  There is a blink-and-you-missed it closeup of Eden with crazy eyes when Mason is going after Sophia, but it doesn't amount to much.  They also never explained why Robert Barr would want to revert Eden back to her jewel thief persona or why he would give her the necklace.


    Even the dinner party table was new and had never been in that place on the set, before or after that episode.  And Kelly is inexplicably living in the Capwell mansion which she had moved out of months prior.  Finally, it defies logic that Mason would still be angry at CC after a year when both he and Eden had near-death experiences resulting in a Christmas episode about how happy they were to be reunited as a family.


    So, their return, for me, seemed like a chance to produce the types of stories that they wanted to do before they were locked out, but ignored everything that had happened in the interim, which seemed to please them but was not necessarily in the service of the audience.  I think it is especially true of the time period, when fans were less informed of the behind the scenes changes and it probably came across as jarring, rather than a re-set.   

  16. Looking back, there were other issues with Laura's story that would be offensive by today's standards.  After the rape, she wrote a letter to Luke expressing her longing for him.  Scotty found the letter, slut shamed Laura, and threatened to leave town.  When Luke and Laura returned from their summer adventure, Lee Baldwin confronted Laura about the letter and also tried to make her feel guilty and ashamed.  None of the Baldwins ever considered Laura's lack of compliance with the initial contact with Luke, including Gail, a psychologist who should have known better.


    Hopefully, by today's standards, the plot would include references to Laura's complicated relationship with Lesley's lovers from the rejection of Cameron Foster to the illicit affair with David Hamilton.  

  17. 1 minute ago, amybrickwallace said:

    I'm pretty sure that she did have to sleep with him while he held her hostage, but I haven't seen those scenes in a long time (mostly I remember her hideous pink nightgown). @Wendy, do you remember?

    I went and read the French Santa Barbara site and it clarified that Kelly was raped, but Eden who had also been kidnapped by Peter was not raped ( sorry for the confusion)


    I still think Kelly was doing something to drive those other guys out of town never to be mentioned again....

  18. 12 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

    Actually, Kelly was forced into sex by her violent, delusional ex-fiance Peter Flint (aka the Carnation Killer). That was in early 1985 and he kidnapped her when she was on her honeymoon with Joe Perkins. Those scenes were very disturbing.

    I beg to differ because she was "saved" prior to being raped and she was very specific about saying that in later scenes with Marcello. 

  19. This may be a dumb question, but I wonder how the hiatus saves money? 


    Actors are contracted for a certain number of episodes whether they are filmed in a day or a month.  We've read that they've all taken pay cuts, but 3 episodes a week are still 3 paid episodes regardless of how speedily they are filmed.  Below the line staffers are union employees who get a certain yearly salary regardless of how limited the production timeline becomes.  Writers and producers are also paid an annual fee regardless of how they film.  So, unless the utility bills for water and power for the months when they go dark saves Sony millions of dollars a year, I don't know why it is more efficient? 


    One would hazzard that the loss of directors and production staff who want to work 12 months a year would actually be less efficient.

  20. I think we can add Kelly Capwell to the list of women who were never sexually assaulted in Santa Barbara.  She was kidnapped quite often, but never raped. 


    Of course, given my Kelly-was-a-secret-serial-killer theory - i.e. most of the men she was coupled with (Nick, Pearl, Ric Castillo, Craig Hunt, and Justin Moore) "disappeared" from SB without a goodbye scene, she may have been more of a menace than a victim.


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