ajsp35801

Damn... damn... D A M N Taraji!

I can't! I wish this show was daily.

Work it Taraji...work it!

Lucious has seen that. He will want to see it again. LOL

Is this Lucious' daughter?

And do we know who the actress is? Sounded like Keshia Knight Pulliam for a minute but the actress seems light than her from a distance

I'm torn between wanting someone (OK, Cookie) to smack that smile off Boo Boo Kitty's face and thinking that it's sweet she seems so happy. It's all going to come down to how smug she comes across in the next episode. I do feel a little more for her after that conversation she had with her mother.

I went from liking Kitty and feeling for her to wanting her face cracked in one promo. LOL

Remember in that first episode Andre and Rhonda were (literally) looking down on Hakeem and Jamal when they were singing together. Andre said something along the lines of Lucious favoring Hakeem because of his talent. Also that he still loved Jamal more than Andre, even though he hates Jamal. All this because of musical talent. So I take it that maybe Andre just isn't good enough to be a professional? I mean, how many people really are? Even in big family acts, it's often one or two who carry the rest. I'm also not sure we are really supposed to believe that Andre is right about the way Lucious feels.

I think Andre's feelings are from his POV. He thinks that Lucious loves the others more than Him. I doubt that is true. But I think he does value them more than Andre. And this is because of their talent.

Not speaking "The Queen's English" doesn't make one "uneducated".

Hakeem is a classic underachiever who isn't motivated because he doesn't have to be which (a trait he & Jamal shared until very recently).

The reason he speaks different than his brothers (but not unlike his parents & Uncle Vernon) is because they're in situations where they are expected to code switch & he isn't.

This. But am I the only one that didn't notice a difference in how these 3 speak?

About the interesting idea that Juliajms brought up about why Hakeem seems to talk differently from his older brothers:

I think that Andre and Jamal are old enough to remember when the family was not wealthy so perhaps education was considered more important for the kids back then. Also, Cookie went to prison when Hakeem was an infant. Perhaps she was the one who insisted on the education and since she wasn't around...and perhaps Lucious didn't really think it was necessary for Hakeem, knowing he had already built a fortune and that Hakeem would be a rapper? JMO

Maybe it's like the Hilton Sisters. They knew their fortunes were already made so they didn't really continue on with their education after secondary school. You'd be surprised at what a short amount of formal education they have. During the recession, I've even heard people claim that college is overrated. Not everyone prizes a formal education.

See my other response

I think in some ways it would have made more sense for Hakeem to be one of the older brothers. Both Andre and Jamal sound like they are well educated. Strange that Hakeem doesn't sound like he went to some fancy private high school as well. Even if they had him putting on the rap persona, while having that privileged upbringing underneath it would seem more realistic to me. I suspect they wanted to give the youngest child the mommy issues and that wouldn't work with making him gay too? Then from that it follows that the youngest would have to be the rapper who has Lucious approval, while Jamal is more on the R&B side and needing Cookie more. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm a little more team Jamal than team Hakeem, but I can like them both. It's just that I'm a little too old to really relate to Hakeem as anything other than a child. He really does remind me of Justin Bieber, in a way. All I see is a baby, while all these women are draped over him and I'm like really? Eww! Not because he isn't cute, but because he's so young.

I don't see any difference in how either brother speaks. All their subjects/verbs and pronouns/antecedents agree. They all use the correct tenses.

I must say that I'm somewhat offended by the phrase "sound well educated". I won't get into why because I am not in the mood to have a discussion about dialect and race today. And yes, I'm southern.

The first two episodes weren't exactly pro Jamal. They simply weren't anti Jamal. It helped that Daniels & Strong wrote them. They were fairly balanced and continued to explore Hakeem.

As soon as episode three rolled on, suddenly Hakeem was clearly the one the scripts favored--and it was unnecessary, too (yes, this was unnecessary) considering he is hella interesting and fascinating and his antics don't need propping to be liked. Maybe they feared he wouldn't be supported by the audience, I don't know. But this hasn't been going on for one episode but THREE.

Let's see how things develop.

I disagree here. Until this past episode I didn't like Hakeem AT ALL and failed to see how anyone else would. The writing did him no favors and neither does the actor's arrogance. The last two episodes did wonders for his likability. I still don't have the same connection to him that I do Jamal and I doubt I ever will. Jamal has a special place in my heart so I am sure this is my bias talking here.

I thought that the first 3 episodes were great for Jamal. They were clearly written in his favor. I thought he was going to be the pet of all pets. And I was happy with that because you rarely get to see marginalized people as pets on a damn show that is mainstream and popular. I was hoping the entire show would continue to revolve around him and whatever he had going. And I make no apologies for not caring if the show was balanced in Hakeem or Andre's favor. However, I have no desire to see a show revolve around Hakeem. First of all, the actor can't carry it. So I really hope you are wrong because he is the least interesting character of the ENTIRE set. Christ on a cracker!

Nope. Don't. Don't try to make this about the writing supporting Hakeem because the actor is being criticized for the way he looks, while Jamal can be left to deal on his own.

All this was written and shot before the show even premiered. It has nothing to do with that.

They (TPTB) should be writing well and supporting both sides. Their bias is clear and, unfortunately, the audience all too easily identifies with that.

But, since we're on the subject, I will say that 1) I find Hakeem much sexier than Jamal 2) I was very, very appreciative of the fact that he was half naked for basically the whole episode!

The first couple of episodes was very pro Jamal. It was all about pushing Jamal as the one to root for. Every episode can't be pro Jamal. Lest, he be the saint instead of Hakeem. That isn't balanced either. This was ONE episodes. Just one. Now if this is the theme for the rest of the season, I'll be somewhere acting a fool...writing a letter or two...or three to Fox, for sure! But I am not up in arms over one episode. Andre needs some episodes as well. He needs to be more than the villain that is coming between his two talented brothers.

Let's hope you will. The proof will be, as they say, in the pudding.

It always is...I live on a soap box.

Perhaps Jussie's acting isn't on the level as Howard's so him playing tough is simply not ringing true. It's too forced. Daniels needs to bring it down a notch.

I can't with this one here. It surely isn't the acting.

Oh, honey, I haven't started dragging anyone yet. I am at a 5. You'll know when I'm at a 10.

I find it funny you would say that, considering you've gone to battle over other biases. But that's none of my business.

When there is a bias, you are damn right I will. And I will go to battle over this issue too. You can count on that.

Only at 5? This is going to get very entertaining!

I completely see what you see in regards to Jamal. I've seen some moments that I do like and I like him, but I agree about how they are trying too hard to show him as some bad ass, and I roll my eyes everytime he wants to 'please his daddy' and how he constantly worries what Lucious thinks and how he wants his approval at everything.

Look. It hurts to be rejected by a parent. I can't relate to that, thankfully, but I understand Jamal desiring his father's approval and love, but at some point you just have to do you and stop living your life trying to gain his support, respect and approval.

The writing has been uneven with Jamal, IMO. But I'm still rooting for him. I just think they're taking a basic way out with him as a character right now.

Little moments like how he found the song in his head last week, and the moment on the roof this week, that's what makes me like him and root for him. And it doesn't hurt that Jussie is good, and good looking. LOL

Jamal is YOUNG. Do you know how long it takes people to come to that realization about their parents? It won't be anytime before a person is 55!

Of course, he is going to want the approval of his father. And while they use sexuality as the rift between them, wanting a parent's approval is aommon theme drives characters on soaps. It could have been anything really. They could have chosen the kind of music that Hakeem wants to make. His father is a rapper and Lucious could have wanted Jamal to be a rapper. I think some people might feel different about this situation if it wasn't sexuality.

Saint Hakeem!!

But, it's OK. Jamal will probably be apologizing by next week and will go back to supporting, comforting and guiding his little brother, while Hakeem repays him by badmouthing him to his father (AGAIN), competing and wanting to do better (AGAIN) and being jealous (AGAIN).

I see what you did there. LOL

Hakeem is getting very sympathetic writing at the moment. He is being fleshed out. He needs it. Jamal, as a character, can survive off Jussie's good looks, charisma, and musical talents. Hakeem can't. Sorry to any Hakeem fans, but he just can NOT. People are calling him ugly. That kid is not ugly. But I think we all know what is behind that. Just in case you don't, I will spell it out. His lips are too thick and his skin is too dark (in comparison to his siblings) for a lot of people. I'll end that there.

But see I'm not saying that Jamal's conclusion was the worst conclusion, especially since the thugs mentioned the watch. My point is Daniels is really pushing the audience to see that even though Jamal is gay, he can be bad ass. That's not necessary. Jamal is a human being first, so yeah, its possible he can be bad ass and his sexuality has nothing to do with it. Jamal is coming off like a whiny bitch with a huge chip. If your father is homophobic, so damn what! I'm just not as impressed/enthralled with this guy as most of you seem to be. I don't have a motive to dislike him. I just don't [!@#$%^&*] like him. In fact, I loathe his ass, and in the hood where's he's trying to make music, there are plenty of trash cans that await him!

Trash can? Really. I am a ProJam and I think you are trolling me. j/k LOL

So you don't like what Daniels is doing with Jamal by showing his tough side? I don't see this as any different than showing Lucious committing cold blooded murder. What's the difference in Jamal standing up to some thugs in that manner? I am sure Lucious would have been written the same way. Andre, on the other hand, would have done exactly what they said and tried to reason with them because that is his personality. Hakeem probably would have cowered because he doesn't have the background that Jamal or Andre has. Cookie probably would have pulled her .38 out and shot someone. How is showing her as tough any different than showing Jamal as tough? I'm not getting it here?

What part of JAMAL DOESN'T KNOW HAKEEM DIDN'T DO IT don't you get? Come on, don't pretend you're not getting it, you're much too smart for that.

And since when do you care who the writing props? The writing on Y&R is decimating Hilary and Devon and yet you see through that and refuse to accept it.

Come on now!

I am going to need you to take it from 10 to at least an 8 so we can have a rational conversation about this. j/k LMBO!

I totally get why people HATE Devon and Hilary. The writing dictates that they do and I have said it a many times that I understand. Hevon are the EVUL villains to poor, pitiful, good man Neil. However, I will never hate them over some heinous writing and see right through it. It's the same for Jamal. I get why people don't like him. However, there is nothing that they can do to make ME hate Jamal. I wub him. And always will. And I won't assign some nefarious reason for why people do when it is clearly in the writing for them to dislike him. Not as overt and Devon and Hilary but it is there. Jamal is annoying...but I like that because they gives him layers. He is perfectly flawed!

Disclaimer: Yes, I know it seems I am talking out of both sides of my mouth on this issue so no need to point that out.

Gawd I hope that wasn't shade tossed at me...I'm innocent.

It was you...sorry! LOL

You dislike Jamal. For good reason, I say. He is totally unlikable at times.

This.

And ajsp ... Jamal doesn't KNOW Hakeem didn't send them. He reacted the way he reacted because he thought his brother was guilty. Overreaction? Maybe, but Jamal has every reason right now to believe it was Hakeem.

True. And that is fine....however, because the audience knows that Hakeem didn't do it, he will get sympathy. It was written to garner Hakeem sympathy. Especially when you compound it with the revelation that his girlfriend has a girlfriend. Hakeem is the sympathetic one in this situation.

Again, it hurt my heart but I love the drama. Meh...one brother punched another. It's not that big of a deal to me. Jamal is at a crossroads and doesn't know who to trust. I love this character and his evolution. It's quick but I dig it.

No. That's not what's being said. NO one claimed Hakeem deserves this. What the Jamal haters are saying, however, is that Jamal is horrible and nasty and the worst person in the world for punching Hakeem when he thought Hakeem sent three thugs to rob him, ending up with one of his friends getting shot. I mean, how dare he?

Nah. I don't think that is what is being said. I don't get that from the posts. Okay, maybe one person but she obviously jaded by her dislike of Jamal so that doesn't count.

Abbie, Crane and Katrina time travel to the past and Abbie gets arrested as a runaway slave.

Yeah...this is the end of the line for that show.

Its interesting that you mentioned that because my friend thinks because the fan response to Katrina has been so overwhelmingly negative they actually tweaked the last few episodes to re-connect Abbie and Crane. I had to remind her that its always been negative but given the fact that Mison is now giving interviews stating Crane is in love with Abbie then the folks at SH know season 3 aint happening. I agree with Juliajms that they dont play into their chemistry as they go out of their way to downplay it. The premise of the show was about them being the two witnesses and the narrative revolved around them. All Crane ever talked about was their bond and even though there was no sexual or romantic tension their playful banter and interactions showcased how much they really cared about each other. They had me for life at the beginning of the season when Abbie was stuck in purgatory and Crane promised he would return for her. When they reunited the hugs that followed were EEE! worthy. I personally dont need them to be romantically involved but their connection since then has been completely erased. Abbie being relegated to token sidekick and playing babysitter to Crane and Katrinas marital woes is offensive. I skimmed parts of the interview the EP recently gave and when asked about Katrina the arrogant fool seems almost resigned to the fact that all his efforts to make her a lead failed miserably.

Are you surprised audiences havent warmed up more to Katrina?

The role of writers on a show is you have to fall in love with all of your characters every one of them and try to tell the stories from their point-of-view and make sure everyone understands where they are coming from. Weve all done our best here and Katia is such a fantastic actress. There are a lot of people who have really enjoyed the way that story has borne out and others havent.

He didn't deny the claim? Surprising. Most would have said they didn't believe that to be true.

A new HuffPo column, while written from a black POV, mirrors some of my distaste for some, not all, of the critical reactions to the show in spite of its success. But I think it goes bigger than that, because my beef is with regular pop cult crit sites, full of writers going after it for being too gauche and trying to score points for being evolved. The Atlantic's team of hipster white dudes ranting about the show particularly annoy my white-ass self, and the AV Club doesn't get it and is afraid of it. What they do know is that they would feel uncomfortable supporting it for fear of what other people would say about them. If that makes sense? This has been Awkward Race Talk with your friend fellow poster, Vee.

Here's the thing, it doesn't matter what they think. Ratings are up.

I hope next season they have an entire new family on the show for the Lyons to have a bitter rivalry with.

I need Jamal's boo to be the son of Lucious' rival. Tell a Romeo/Romeo story for them. I'd love it!!

Welcome Particular!

So here's where I fall on this...Jamal believed Hakeem sent the guys. As of right now, he had no reason not to assume that. The thing with Hakeem is, he's a spoiled mouthy brat. He needs someone to put him in his place. His older brother, although for the wrong reason, did just that. If Jamal hadn't done it, someone needed to..That boy needs a realty check!

I'd prefer Hakeem got a reality check he deserved. Lol

Oh, so now it's about Jamal not believing him? So, what's the issue? I'm confused, cos y'all keep flip-flopping on exactly what Jamal did that was SO wrong and evil and naughty.

People are "excusing" Jamal's actions (except for a noted few) because he was more than justified, even though they also wish it hadn't been something so sad and ugly.

Then again, two men fighting? Done everywhere, on every show and movie. Two brothers fighting? Done everywhere. Two brothers betraying or not believing each other? Done everywhere. And yet--YET--it's all Jamal's fault. Got it.

After all, Hakeem is the paragon of responsibility and reliability, right? When he's not publicly urinating all over restaurants or calling his mother a bitch or cheating on his girlfriend, he cures cancer and saves puppies. Jamal should totally just know that Hakeem's friends, who are hanging out at his video shoot, just happened to come rob him? Makes sense, boo boos!

It was a common misunderstanding type plot. But that Hakeem didn't do anything wrong means that Jamal wasn't justified. One would get why he did what he did but he is wrong here. Of course people will sympathize and/or side with Hakeem. It's written that way. Lol.

Loved the episodes. The big character developments that stood out to me was Andree and kitty.

Andre will scheme to get what he wants but at the end of the day, he LOVES his brothers. It was there when he immediately asked whether something was wrong with Hakeem when he called so late. And it was there when he seemed frantic asking whether Jamal was okay and as he lay in bed looking regretful.

Kitty. My poor Boo Boo Kitty. Apparently Lucious has treated Kitty bad in the past. And I think he will agagain because he wants Cookie. I'm not sure he realizes how much just yet but I think he will soon. Kitty's mother was prophetic with the "You'll see". She will be right. A mother is always right. LOL

I figured it was Lucious that left the rose on Cookie's doorstep. Showing up late at night talking about their anniversary.

I know some think that Lucious proposed to Anika for business. But I didn't get that. He proposed BEFORE he knew he needed her father's help, didn't he? And daddy is a bit of a gold digger. Why does it matters if Anika knows he lied for Lucious or not? But I bet debutante mother is going to stroke out when that news come out. She ain't their for being poor and ostracized. I can tell that right now.

I also felt bad for Hakeem. He didn't do anything to deserve being punched. Jamal seems to want to believe the worst in his brother. That saddens me. it broke my heart to see them fighting. But I feed off the drama so I will deal.

Cookie getting a man assassinated. Somehow, I don't feel bad for the guy since he has killed countless others. The life caught up with him. meh.

Loved the episodes. The big character developments that stood out to me was Andree and kitty.

Thank you.

THIS.

I want Hakeem to get a dose of reality. And soon. I love Jamal punching him because Hakeem deserved it and because Jamal believes what Andre set him up to believe.

And brothers fight. Why is everyone acting all "poor Hakeem"?

Hakeem might be a young fool but he didn't deserve to be punched by Jamal because he didn't do what he was accused of.

Al B Deadbeat is Quincy's sperm donor. It takes alot more than that to make a father. Quincy has spoken out about trying to connect with that man and getting nothing back in return. I don't like Diddy either but its been obvious over the years that he cares about that boy.

Not being on Empire isnt a loss to Quincy. If he was serious about being in the entertainment industry he has more than enough connections through Diddy which includes Timbaland tracks.

I thought Quincy was in college...a football player? Didn't he get an athletic scholarship?

Yeah!! & when he come out with his music he's still going to get that check from his father. If he want to be real independent, he should have sign with another label.

Precisely...what's the difference. Jamal just seems like all bluster and bluff and empty show.