carolineg

50 minutes ago, te. said:

I think me and @carolineg would enjoy this story very much, thank you. I can't wait to see Deidre's acting prowess in full force, saddling four roles if we include Hattie!

As long as Marlena has a near death/heaven experience (natch for Marlena) and she sees her twin Sam before she decides if she's going to other side!  All the roles for Deidre lol.  

11 minutes ago, Khan said:

There's "Marlena," of course; and then there's "Harlena," her boozy, trashy alter-ego, who takes control of Marlena's body and who can't get enough of John's -- so much so, in fact, that the poor grandpa literally has a heart attack at one point, and Kristen and "Marlena" have a catfight in the hospital lounge after Kristen accuses her of trying to screw him to death!

And then there's "Darlena," who represents the cold, calculating, impersonal side of Marlena's psyche, who's the one to treat patients at UH, and who locks Belle in a secret room (and leaves Shawn once again vulnerable to Jan) once Belle realizes her mom is mentally ill.

I am assuming Ron probably hasn't heard about the Marlena clones that Stefano sent out during the Possession story yet.   That could be next.

10 minutes ago, AlexElizabeth said:

I know it's stupid but the Abby/Leo scenes had me laughing. I'm excited for Chadwick and Leo on Monday.

Zach Tinker is so damn cute. Love him.

I cleaned during the Rafe/Nicole scenes. 

They made me laugh too.  I still don't think Leo is dumb enough to fall for it, but I liked those scenes.

Am I the only one that thinks Craig is a better choice for chief of staff?  Kayla's not very good anyhow.  

Ava did make a chuckle a bit too.  Her disdain of Nicole/Rafe makes me like her more.

53 minutes ago, Titus Andronicus said:

The pagoda stuff depends on your tolerance for, you know, pagoda stuff. More specifically, Roman can't even look at a picture of a pagoda without going into a trance. Thankfully, it doesn't play a much of a part of the storyline after the summer and it gets back to more traditional heroes and villains.

All of it drags its feet for about a month after the writers' strike ends. Word is that even with an outline, the scab writers blew through everything much faster than they should have. So it seems the regular staff had to dance around while they were figuring out something.

I've wondered how long it was planned for Stefano's return, whether it was originally the end goal or if he bailed them out post-strike. 

And yes, this is the same story they hint Marlena is alive. 

I think I have an okay tolerance to pagodas.  Not sure.  What I read about it makes it sound interesting and maybe the first sign John wasn't Roman, but your explanation just makes it sound messy.

Not sure why they dropped Stefano.  I believe I read Deidre Hall was in serious talks to come back at the time and it fell through and that's why the show was introducing clues that Marlena was alive.  Maybe when DH decided not to come back, the whole thing just ended up getting scrapped and Stefano's story was done.

A lot of the RoJohn/Diana stuff seems to change tone as well from what little I have seen after that.  But then again, even 80's Diana wasn't a very fleshed out character.

21 minutes ago, Titus Andronicus said:

Retcons - at least one of them was - but they toyed with John self-destructing.

The 1988 storyline with that pagoda mess put Roman as a Manchurian candidate of sorts. The pagoda hypnotized him to do Stefano's bidding. The storyline was actually meant for Shane, apparently, but the writer's strike and NBC interference changed it to Roman.

In 1991, the ISA speculated that upon discovery that John would implode and commit suicide. That freaked out Marlena, who insisted that John be found. On that rainy night, John did go as far as to hold a gun against his head. I can't remember if he had talked himself out of it or if Marlena talked him out of it when she got there. Really good scenes, though. Perhaps the only well done thing about Two Romans.

While I'm thinking about it, 1988 also had Days recreate the cliff scene. Instead of going cheap and recycling the 1984 footage, they actually filmed some new stuff with Stefano and RoJohn. Stefano's Island was not a fantastic storyline by any stretch, but they tried hard to make it make sense. I remember they even brought back up a Pawn moment with Steve that was logical.

I have never seen the full pagoda story.  Is it worth watching?  Roman seems like a much more logical choice on this than Shane.  Is it the same story were they hinted Marlena was alive?  Because at least in 1991 there was a strong thread that Stefano had Marlena even if Orpheus wasn't explained.  

Agree 100% about your thoughts on the John imploding/suicidal stuff.  It was good and I wished they explored it more.  It felt like everything was cut short about that and it was more Isabella/Romulus jewel thief focused.  I wish there was more fall out with the children-Carrie wasn't even on canvas.  And making Isabella pregnant almost seemed like too much?  A lot was going on and the show knew Wayne was coming back.  It seemed like an unnecessary complication that was much less interesting than the psychological aspects that could have played out.

I remember seeing the 1988 clips and thinking that was silly because it didn't even make historical sense lol.  To me, there is also a lot of Pawn/John/Victor stuff that wasn't explained in 1991 as well.

This story and LG are so awful in it I almost feel bad for her.  She has to know everyone hates it and LG seems like a nice person.  I have never thought she was a master thespian or anything, but it has to be difficult to get into character when the description is character that's been dead for 40 years and in love with Tony Dimera lol.

I rag on her as much as anyone else and LG could do actual research on the character, but I would love to know her reaction the day she found out she had to play that.

50 minutes ago, Dion said:

 

Yeah having looked back at some of the clips it does seem clear to me now that while JER had John and Kristen playing out all the classic supercouple tropes (As an example, Kristen's marriage to Tony is somewhat reminiscent of Kayla's marriage to Jack), there was always something a little off about them. There was a lack of earnest faith between John and Kristen that John and Marlena had.

 

So many retcons over the years lol. 1991 made it something to do with Mayan codices, while 2008 made it all about the feud started after Stefano's father and Colleen Brady had an affiar.

I also think 1991 tried to explain Marlena's kidnapping as Stefano fearing that Marlena was somehow on the verge of figuring out that John wasn't Roman after all so he faked her death in the plane crash. How that fits into Orpheus I don't know.

 

John actually is the real Forrest, it's just that he was adopted by the Alamains rather than being their biological child. Who they adopted him from keeps changing though lol.

I think currently we are meant to believe that John's father Yo Ling, formerly Timothy Robicheaux, who escaped to China during the Korean War formed some sort of communist alliance with Petrov, found out John had been adopted by the Alamains and reclaimed him so the Alamains (or maybe just Philomena) let him take John and faked his death in the pool. And John was brainwashed at some private school before Petrov betrayed Yo Ling and took John to Stefano.

Outside of the Marlena issue which was never resolved, Kristen wasn't a good character introduction.  Her devotion to Stefano and marriage to Tony was creepy.   IMO, their differences were more than obstacles-they were complete non-starters lol.   She never believed John about anything from Day one.  The entire town was telling her Stefano brainwashed John and tortured him, but Kristen ignored that until John walked out of Maison Blanche in literal shackles.  But it's easy to say that looking back knowing how the story ends.

I think there was a mention in 1991 that Marlena either saw the real Roman or almost did, but it was after Stefano had her.

I didn't realize John was really Forrest Alamain.  I thought the Yo-Ling stuff negated that, but you explained it much better than I remembered it.  Thanks!

Obviously at this point you just wish Real Roman never came back lol.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

Didn't they say Forrest Alamain was supposed to have died in the family pool?? Such wacky stuff.

Yes, but the coffin was empty and Stefano kidnapped Forrest/John as a child, but I am not sure why.  I still don't know if we ever found out if the real Forrest Alamain died in that pool.  Probably?

4 hours ago, beebs said:

Okay, I've had a few drinks and I'm tired, but...

A random aside, but considering how we were talking about them bungling Stefano's death storyline, I had to share this. I know some of y'all will definitely hate it, but...enh, I was young when I started writing this. I had planned to write for my DAYS fanfic (without going too deep into the weeds), that Kristen turns up pregnant, back in 2013-14 after she drugged and raped Eric. After a subsequent WTD involving Brady and Eric, the truth is revealed when Stefano, realizing Kristen is unhinged and her fixation on the baby is becoming obsessive and dangerous to the child, reveals that the baby is actually neither man's child, but actually Abby and EJ's baby from their tryst on Smith Island (requiring Abby leave town for a few months to "work for DiMera").

Kristen snaps, and, feeling betrayed begins to withhold Stefano's insulin, eventually causing him to go into diabetic shock, and dies. Kristen being the monster that Stefano created, being the one to kill him feels incredibly appropriate. After she's revealed as the killer, she's put into Bayview. Marlena is told of a "new experimental treatment" being developed by a new doctor there...turns out it's Rolf, using a pseudonym. He's used MK Ultra to "cure her psychotic depression". of course, knowing how MK Ultra works, it wipes Kristen's memory. When Marlena tours the facility to see what this new doctor's treatment involves, she realizes something funny is going on. After some digging, she realizes what's happening and blows the whistle on Rolf's experiments, ultimately leading to Bayview shutting down.

In the aftermath of this, Kristen returns to Salem, and John, realizing that the old "evil" Kristen is gone, takes pity on her, and insists that she stay with him and Marlena at the micropenthouse. Brady, of course, backs John up on this, but Marlena is extremely reluctant, and can't see past the things Kristen's done, even though Kristen doesn't remember and is back to being "sweet, innocent" Kristen again. The tensions between them bleed into Marlena's relationship with John, of course, as well as with Brady.

I'm probably explaining this horribly, but it just kickstarted my memory about that seed of an idea I had. One day I'll write it all out.

That really is a big part of the problem, as well. I know that, ultimately, Gene Palumbo had wanted to tie John to the Alamains, as they were the big bads of the time, and they had just added Vivian to the cast to try to really solidify their place on the show, but considering he was out so quickly, and there was such a turnover in 1991-93 in terms of writers, nothing really could gel properly. In fact, I think Palumbo was brought back for a few weeks during Sheri Anderson's return in mid-1992 to wrap up some of his stories, as well?

Oddly enough, his run wasn't THAT unpopular. He did manage to get the show back up into the Top 5 by the end of his run for a number of weeks, but, in retrospect, it was pretty damn messy, and inconsistent.

Did Palumbo do the John is a jewel thief story?  That was awful lol.  It had continuity errors from his own recent story the Tale of 2 Romans.  

I don't think tying John to the Alamains was that bad of an idea, but the show didn't do a lot to solidify the Alamains long term.  Once Lawrence was out, John only had Vivian and that wasn't really dramatic.

I think every writer salivates at the fact John has such a blank past and wants to write their own story so none of it makes sense.

They should really have made John Roman's twin that Stefano kidnapped due to a Brady past vendetta that made sense back in the early 90's.

3 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Right after her talk with Will, she went to go find Chanel 

Thanks!  I wasn't sure if she ever followed up with Tripp.  Not that she has to, but he's probably thinking she feels one way and doesn't lol.  But that kinda sums up their entire relationship.

6 minutes ago, will81 said:

I think the whole town should be embarrassed about mistaking John for Roman. They question it for a split second and then just accept it. Despite the height and build difference. At least facial surgery is plausible, somewhat. In terms of him being a virgin. He probably wasn't. I'd say DiMera probably had him in a trance sleeping with women he thought was his wife Marlena, to get him ready, lol. I do wonder if there were any other physical differences Marlena noticed, haha.

Eric - I haven't watched the show much since Kristen was dropped in the Harem, and I only returned to watch ED's first come back. So I don't know his story well enough. 

Agree. They based the whole thing on a before and after photo.  Everyone should be embarrassed.  I think everyone just liked John better and went with it.  Including Marlena lol.   I think it's obvious she liked some physical differences.   

It's sorta funny that you think Stefano made him practice to have sex with Marlena.  If I am going to go even further into all this-why did Stefano even make John faux Ro?  What was his point?  Especially after he kidnapped Marlena as well?  Was there an end goal he was looking for like John to turn on all the Brady's at some point?  Or was it just for like shits and giggles?  Have they ever even tried to explain it?  

As far as Eric he got kicked out of the priesthood for Kristen seducing him.  I don't even want to talk about it.  He always got in a drunk driving accident and killed Daniel among the other lesser sins.  I honestly didn't even hear his excuse about why he went back recently. 

39 minutes ago, Vee said:

He absolutely is and the more you watch the worse it gets.

I strangely admire his commitment to thinking his live version is going to be as good as his weirdly edited track with background vocals.

I honestly think TR is aggressively touching Finola's hand to remind one another they can't burst out laughing in this scene.

I don't know anything about Conner or the actor, but was singing the actor's main career?  

13 minutes ago, will81 said:

Maybe Marlena had some moments when she pushed John to the priesthood, though I get the feeling they may have been moments when she was feeling guilty about her affair. Not sure.

Yeah I don't think John was aware of his own feelings, but it seems JER was setting up that John and Kristen were not 'meant to be' and his beloved Doc knew him. I agree it was not until Aremid that John started to realise it, somewhat.

Lol John going back and forth is a bit odd. No sure it does work that way. My uncle is a priest and has never had a relationship. He is very much 'married' to GOD. I think if you leave, that's the end of it. Not take backs, haha. 

 

I think Kristen's view of religion was just so strong at that time (and completely abandoned post-Possession lol) that Marlena's "I support you no matter what" attitude came off more natural.  I just always thought she was okay with it and maybe pro/pushing is too strong of a word, but she wasn't against it and didn't want him to turn his back on it necessarily. 

So do you think Marlena realized if John was a priest brainwashed out of the seminary that meant John was probably a virgin when she met him and she was embarrassed she couldn't tell the difference between him and Roman?  Lol.   I know it's completely retconned out of existence now, but at the time..

I don't think JER ever left his vision of John/Marlena even if I suspect the network and other PTB wanted John/Kristen more when ED first arrived, but JER was never going to truly let that happen.  Aremid is where John/Marlena stuff becomes really clear, but I think the true turning point is when the devil starts using Marlena to actively seduce John.  You truly get the idea that's the endgame couple

Anyhow, Eric's priesthood journey confuses me more than John's.  Eric can leave, have multiple relationships with women, have a child out of wedlock, and get married and DIVORCED, and just go back to being a CATHOLIC priest?   I know women used to join convents after they were widowed, but I feel like Eric's life is not the same at all.  Maybe they just keep him around in case an exorcism needs to get done.

2 minutes ago, j swift said:

@Franko I've never heard of that book

I did some quick google-ing. 

Bobby seems to win the prize for most frequent bridesmaid/attendant.  Of course, she didn't stand up for Laura's wedding, but she was there for Terri, Felicia, Celia, Anna, and most of Carly weddings.

You can get it for $4 bucks on Amazon-never heard of it either, but it's fairly newish.

I think a lot of time wedding attendants are based actors leaving the show and who is vaguely friendly enough that's still on the cast.

4 hours ago, Vee said:

I do! I'll never forget this. It won't embed, so the glory has to be viewed up close!

Finola Hughes' expression throughout is incredible.

This is hilarious.  Is he performing live to his own music video?  That seems...rendundant lol.

I agree the music could be a little cheesy in the 90's and I don't think the Outback, Luke's and sometimes Jake's all needed to be a place people needed to sing live at.  Add the nurses's Ball and traveling to Puerto Rico to see a concert-it's a lot of singing.   Is PC that big of a music mecca?  I get that it's not very exciting to watch other people reacting to people singing, but I loved the idea of Luke's as a bluesy club and L&B as a business venture that Lois/Brenda could do where they actually showed them doing work.

The first few years of the NB worked because they felt like a variety show more with some silly acts.  When it became really glossy and characters that would never perform started to perform it got clear they ran out of ideas.  It's certainly not a nadir of viewing, but why would anyone want to watch Chloe/Jax ballroom dance?  

This is a serious question, but did I miss an episode when Allie decided she was all in with Chanel and over Tripp?  I saw her talk with Will, but has she just dropped the idea of getting back with Tripp now?

Today's show was awful, but I had to laugh when Ciara/Ben were explaining to Chanel the devil wanted their baby and Chanel was rightfully worried and asked 'why'?  And Ciara said "Idk, hope it's over" in the most casual way.  I think it's clear how VK feels about this story.

2 hours ago, will81 said:

I didn't think Marlena was pro priest. Only because I remember it being the first time John looked at Kristen (who was pushing him to stay with the church) like she didn't understand him, while Marlena was simply agreeing with whatever John wanted and thus he felt this stronger connection to her. That they knew each other and she understood who he was. 

You are probably right.  Maybe I was just confusing the fact that Marlena was generally really pro John finding out his past, which was fair, but never cared much about the 5 years she was kidnapped lol.  I remember her urging him to find out as much as he could about the priest stuff. 

I would say, IMO, that John was still really into Kristen until Aremid and that's when he saw something 'more' again with Marlena.  But obviously, the audience would see it better than them and knew there was unfinished business with them even at Maison Blanche.  

On a sort of unrelated priest note I always thought it was funny John decided to re commit to being a priest and all of sudden he was performing weddings and had these duties.  Does it even work like that lol?  I know very little about this, but isn't it difficult to go back after you had a wife and children?  How does Eric go in and out as a priest as well?

45 minutes ago, Dr Neil Curtis said:

What I liked most about the MarDar era was the introduction of Madison James and linking her to Sami/Eric Colorado time with Frank & Martha Evans. It’s been a while since they introduced a good new character like that. 

I think it's interesting to hear more about Sami/Eric's time in Colorado because so little is known about that time or even how long they were there lol.  I could take or leave Madison, but it was a good intro.  The show probably got rid of her too soon, but her backstory got weird quick.

8 minutes ago, Dion said:

I'm not sure. I'm a bit murky on this period of 94...Like I only know Tanya from the clips and I tend to watch them at random lol.

Yeah. I get that. There is a lull between maison blanche and the possession where john and crew aren't doing anything exciting and Kristen and John have the same conversation about 10000 times.  Even in edits that period is tedious and I skip ahead usually too lol

5 minutes ago, Dion said:

Yeah I think she only appeared in a short arc as Tanya Hampstead. Kristen ended her affair with John after learning he had been a priest and was adamant she wanted to make her marriage to Tony work. John was in denial about the whole priesthood thing and started dating Tanya for a short while but couldn't go through with sleeping with her and they parted on amicable terms after John admitted he was in love with a married woman. Then something happened (I'm not sure what) that made John want to be a priest for a while lol.

Isn't it Gabe that convinces John to be a priest?  Wasn't pre-possessed Marlena pro John being a priest as well?.  I remember her and Kristen saying it was his 'calling'.  Which, no it's not, if he doesn't remember it.   Instead of Tanya I guess John was off screen knocking Tori up.  

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

People razz Maggie so much these days but I've always liked Suzanne, and I remember when Maggie couldn't buy 3 minutes of airtime every 6 months. They put her with Victor and it worked and she flourished again. Stories since of course are all over the map, but I'll always love Maggie.

I can't stand Maggie.  But I appreciate the fact the show used her.  I think SR deserved that.  The Victor pairing was great at first.  I definitely like the fact the use her and her loyalty to the show, but it got a bit much.  She's not the same as Marlena and I think the show sort of fell into that theory lol.

34 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

Good grief, you learn something new every day. Now I wanna see all of the early 90's just to fill in the many obvious blanks (I didn't begin until 1995). I randomly saw an episode from 1994 on YouTube a few weeks back and was surprised to see Jocelyn Seagrave on the show, flirting it up with John Black. Did she only last a hot minute? 

Yes, Jocelyn Seagrave played Tanya.  It was after GL and it seemed like such a small role.  She briefly hooked up with John and I think they had sex.   I believe she was just a diversion from Kristen or to make Kristen jealous, but she didn't last long at all.  In fact, I think she just vanished one day after John dumps her.  It's so funny you mentioned that because my description of the character may be a little off, but I completely forget about her and see her in edits and always think why did JS have such a tiny role?  Was it supposed to be more?  Did she book other work at the time?  Is she objectively a little young for Drake/John? Lol such a random character.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

I agree, I did find it a bit arbitrary that it wasn't Marlena or John (or Roman, as the dark horse).

I know JT's Roman is really a dark horse here, but he lost everything to Stefano.  I know John lost his memories, but he got the girl and a decent life.  Roman spent 7 years as a prisoner only to find out his whole family accepted and liked his replacement better.  That's rough.  And Carrie and Eric are fine, but 1 of his kids is Sami and that's an awful fate.  So I would give Roman the win on this one or maybe have John do it and Roman help cover it up.

I think Drake/Kristian have okay chemistry.  I think Drake generally has chemistry with all his love interests tbh.  In 1997 when they had that jungle story together I was intrigued.   The ship has long sailed on any 3rd party love interest breaking up Marlena/John, but it's more annoying the show teases it then backs off.  Just do it or don't lol.

I think the cover up was the issue, not so much the act.  And the Rafe of it all lol. I personally wish Stefano died at John/Roman/Marlena's hands not Hope's.  While Stefano has messed with Hope a ton, the fitting end would be to let one of those three characters do it, preferably John.

4 minutes ago, Michael said:

It was dumb! He couldn't have... been scared and run out of the building and been trapped under a tree or something? I dunno. It was so ridiculous.

Yeah, I canNOT remember why they were in the safehouse. I'm sure it was dumb! That was pretty shortly after John and Hope returned from Alamainia, which was a whole other ball of nothing. But I don't think those threads were connected. 

IDK why numerous writers are obsessed with re visiting John/Hope.  No one likes the pairing.  And it's always lame.  John/Hope are married, so?  They are just going to get a divorce lol.  Multiple regimes toy with the pairing, but never have the balls to go there so it's just a big waste of time.

I don't think the Alamainia stuff was connected.  I am sure it was stupid, but I really do think Stefano was trying to hurt Marlena at the time, which is another weird thread writers go in and out on.   Sometimes Stefano is obsessed with Marlena, other times he's actively trying to harm her.