AdelaideCate007

Yeah I could see both of them popping up on there. I love Kira like everyone else and would have been excited to see her here. I do think though she's somebody that would be better served on something like Legacy thought where they could make her the focus and give her arc for an episode or two. I feel like any Picard appearance would have just been a drive by to talk to Worf or to pop up in battle. Captain Harry Kim has to happen at some point too lol. It's too good.

Molly and Kirayoshi are really good ideas. I'd love to see Molly, especially since she was technically born on TNG. Kirayoshi would read too since the Legacy kids are a little female heavy outside of Jack and I guess Alexander. I totally blanked on the second Sisko kid, but yeah, I don't think he'd in Starfleet either.

A great article about why they used Deanna and Riker to save the day in the end-

@Vee No I didn't lol. Funny though since I had thrown her and I think the Paris daughter out there a few weeks ago as kids that could appear on Legacy if they wanted to expand outside of TNG. She was kind of annoying on Voyager but I think that would be an interesting relationship to see between Seven and her as an adult. The idea of her being a space pirate is a fun idea. 

I know everyone is all in on Legacy being the TNG kids and the Titan/Enterprise crew of course. But I do wonder if they'd want to bring on anyone from DS9 or Voyager in the mix. Are there even any DS9 kids out there other than Jake? He's not even in Starfleet though.

Great stuff in the AMA. Poor Ro and Shelby really are going to live on forever in those books lol.

Also, since I was talking about it the other day, I've been running through the episodes again with my husband so he can watch the finale and I totally missed that they tossed out a few other Kestra references outside of the first episode and when Troi and Riker talk about her when they're kidnapped. I guess I totally skipped over him mentioning her to Jack or that Jack mentions her and Deanna to Picard when he wants to give himself up to Vadic. My bad lol!

Yeah, I realised it was probably a makeup thing after I posted it lol. I'm just glad they used her voice.

Oh yeah, I was always assuming they'd recast her for whatever spinoff plans they have if they used her long term. That actress was a gem though I thought.

I just saw the Ro plans and some of the other plans. I wish that had happened as well, but I get it with money constraints. I'm happy with what we got either way.

Yeah, maybe I wasn't in the right mood for it last time, but after having some mixed feelings about the previous episode, I was a mess this whole time. Basically the best finale they could have come up with. Wild to think that TNG and Picard basically both ended with pitch perfect finales.

Some thoughts-

I didn't look! I want to be surprised about anything big also! I just have seen that they're out there. Everything I saw was super mild or expected and just the stuff in the reaction tweets.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I liked his found footage movie (IIRC) but his fascination with spinning the camera upside down in every single shot on DSC became a running joke for me long ago. I have a lot of feelings about the wildly varying talent at DSC, I'm sorry lol.

Fair lol! I couldn't tell you which ones he directed tbh. I just saw a lot of praise for his work on there on twitter and that people were excited he got the job.

Section 31 got deeply irritating after awhile but I usually like Discovery more often than not so this works for me. I'm super interested in this, mostly because of Michelle Yeoh and just it being Trek in general. This idea works better as a movie anyway and I feel like these types of movies are the type of thing they should be focused on anyway film wise. They got who I think most fans agree is best director they have TV wise shooting it, so that's a plus. I'll be interested to see who they pull talent wise for the rest of the cast. I'm sure there's a lot of people who wouldn't mind being in a film with her or doing Star Trek but weren't interested in signing up for a series.

This also presumably frees up a spot tv wise which I'm guessing most fans are hoping is the Legacy/25th century show. I think they should focus on the shows moving the franchise forward. If they want to do these reunions or circle back to old ideas for a bit, they can do one of this movies for Paramount Plus.

Specific finale spoilers have started to appear online. I had a couple sprung on me unexpectedly (not anything people couldn't guess already), but apparently there are more detailed ones floating around out there including stuff about

Avoid all that if you don't want to accidentally see anything.

More generally though, people that got to see the episode are posting their vague reactions. Seems really positive and like they end things on a hopeful and heartwarming note. Also seems that there's some really  good stuff

Every time I click on a Terry Matalas tweet, I see a bunch of the Troi fans shouting and arguing lol, or at least I did before she showed up. It's like kay. For whatever reason, I get a lot of the Seven and Raffi stans on my for you tab and there are....some interesting takes for sure. I don't really mean anyone being negative about Beverly's story. It's just a lot of fan girls lusting over her and there seem to be a lot of them lol.

I took a peak over at the TrekBBS boards once earlier this season and peaced out after. The fighting was just too much. I peak at Reddit sometime and the relies are surprisingly positive. I'm happy with the response as well and I'm sure they are too. I hope they can seriously get a new 25th century show going with Seven.

They've been loud and aggressive as hell on Twitter and in other places for weeks now lol. The Picard hashtag is a mess half the time between them, the Beverly stan army, and the Saffi fans. I do think people, both her stans and others, need to realise that her saying she's disappointed about a few thing doesn't equal she's mad and never coming back to Trek. Just looking around, she was one of the ones saying she'd love to come back for more before the season aired. I know some of that is promoting the show, but I doubt most of these people would turn down more down the line. Like I said and you have said, sure it would have been nice for there to be more- same with everyone!- but I've thought she's been used well more or less. But yeah, I feel like a lot of these legit minor complaints people have could have just been solved by tossing in a line or two or adding five minutes in here or there. I can take or leave the Raffi and Seven romance myself, but I feel like people wouldn't be flooding the timeline and comments with questions about it if they'd just thrown something more in the dialogue other than "we broke up". Same with all the other minor things that could have used a line or two.

If there's no Janeway, then idk. They've been mentioning her pretty consistently through the season so it'd be a real miss for me if she's not there. Kate Mulgrew is so tied up with Trek again these days that I can't imagine she'd turn it down.

I agree with the Star Trek VI comparisons. Like I mentioned, the Riker/Deanna stuff, Crusher/Picard, Crusher on her own, the Data/Lore scenes, and all that have made this worth it to me and given me what I was looking for. 

I wasn't aware that was going on lol. I enjoyed a lot of the first season- the aforementioned Kestra and Laris, the more world weary Picard, Raffi, getting Seven roped into the TNG crew. The second...was what it was but I'm willing to chalk that up to covid and move along. I think Alison Pill is brilliant but that character never did much for me and I can't say I've missed her. I enjoyed Rios to a point and again, think he's a great actor, but that character kind of ran his course. There's no point in Rios when you have Riker and Worf back. I had forgotten all about Soji and Elnor till I noticed people complaining about their whereabouts. I just don't care and the last thing this season needed was more bodies just standing around taking up space. I don't think it's some conspiracy. They had a chance to get the original crew back and took it. I don't know how they were supposed to use any of them in this current story. Raffi obviously survived based on the Seven connection, being a veteran actress, and someone they could slot in with the original crew. I'm not sure what people would want from idk Agnes and Elnor this season.

@Vee Reading it back, my post came off as way harsher than I intended, cause we agree basically and I hear you! There's only so much they can do. Obviously I wish, and I think most people do, that they all get a little more but I think they've all been used about the best they can. It's a lot of people to run through and get stuff done for. I have high hopes for the finale since they all seem excited about it. I thought the scenes with her and Jack this episode were great as well. I've gotten extremely tired of Data recently, but I've thought his scenes the past two episodes where excellent as well. It's hard to complain when what they are getting in the time allowed is overall extremely good.

That kind of why I'm wary of any big VOY/DS9 cameos outside of Janeway hopefully and Tuvok again at this point. The time for that was earlier in the season and anybody like that in the finale would just by a drive by and taking away from the TNG cast. Like sure it'd be nice to see people like Kira (just to throw out a name I see a lot of people clamouring for), but I'd rather they have something good for her in another show than her showing to say "hey guys!" for five minutes in the middle of a battle. I know other wanted more big names, but I've been happy the cameos so far have been very TNG centric or related back to Seven.

As for Kestra, she was just fresh on my mind cause I've seen so much complaining about it today in other places. I wasn't expecting to see her or get a 15 minute info dump, but it was just a little odd to me that they didn't seem more concerned. It's just kind of in the same weird area like Raffi & Seven's romance, people wanting Worf to mention Dax and Alexander (lol), Laris, and whatever else. It's like you said, I don't know why were not getting five or ten minutes add somewhere where they could have added this stuff into the conversation instead of people then freaking out on twitter and them having to come up with answers in interviews. Tossing just a line or two more in some of these scenes could have solved a lot of these issues, even though they're obviously super minor in the scheme of things. People could also be jumping to conclusions ahead of time cause who knows what happens in the finale. It is super odd how short some of these have been considering the other shows go to an hour on the regular.

I do think though overall this has been a fantastic season and I applaud what they've done. Like I said, if this is it, then I'm happy with the send off and what they pulled off. Stuff like the Riker and Deanna scenes, the Picard and Crusher stuff, Data and Lore combing, Ro, and the last 15 minutes of the last episode made this all worth it to me.

So this episode, like the last episode, had some incredible highs and a few real lows.

First off with the positive- the last 15 minutes were electric. From the voice, to the set, to the whole vibe. I was a mess. I thought the cameo was fantastic and the exact kind of callback this show should be doing instead of a parade of VOY/DS9 main characters like some people have been wishing for. I thought 

I called the villain last week 

Overall, barring some horrible story collapse next episode and them all dying (I don't really see any of them dying now), I'm very satisfied with what we've got. Seeing them all together has been a gift and I like that the show seems to be setting them up to be in a hopeful place. I assume we'll see cameos here and there from them on places like Lower Decks and if they continue on with the 25th century, but I think this is it for them as a group. If so, I'm happy with what we've gotten.

Now the bad. I've been noticing this coming up more and more in places and people calling it out and I have to agree- what's up with the weirdness about them almost retconning out Riker and Deanna's daughter. If Riker hadn't mentioned her for a second those time times, I'd assume she didn't exist anymore. It's especially glaring when they've spent the previous eight episodes going on and on about their dead son. I've seen people guessing they didn't want to focus on her too much because it didn't fit with the vibe they set up this season that they've been severely depressed over the son all these years (again, hate that they ruined the season 1 episode about that but alas) and the daughter kind of ruins that. However, this is the second or third time this season they've felt like they were close to death and...crickets from either of them. It's a bad look overall. Terry Matalas giving interviews saying they cut out a line from the last episode about her joining Starfleet makes it even worse because you'd think they'd be worried about but again, nothing. Plus Riker said he left to come with Picard earlier this season so he could give her and Deanna space. If she was away in Starfleet, then she's already getting space from him. I'm not saying we needed to see her in person but more concrete mention would have been nice but instead it looks like Riker and Deanna can't be bothered.

Second, I have my doubts they can wrap up this Borg stuff in a way that doesn't feel rushed but I'll be happy to be surprised.

Also, if the stuff with Riker last week is really the highlight of Deanna's material this season, then I can't help but side with Marina on being disappointed with how it all shook out for her this season. Where was she when all of them were gathering to discuss Jack or during any of that? She's the one that realised what was up and then she's just gone till it's time to leave on the shuttle? It's very odd. Hoping though her and the rest all get a great send off next week and that they keep the momentum from the ending and stick the landing.

I was a mess during this whole episode lol. The Riker and Deanna stuff, Data and Lore, and then of course the ending. The Worf rescuing Riker and Deanna bit was gold.

I'm ready for the last two episodes of them together and I feel it'll be super satisfying, but now that they're all together, I don't want it to end. Glad Marina came in as strong as everyone else has been. I know its been a wait, but I was happy with her stuff this episode and I think the last two are going to be strong for everyone.

Surprised that was the end of Amanda Plummer so soon, but she was really great the past two episodes and got a lot to chew on. She definitely sold me on the creepy vibe she had going while also being terrified of whoever her boss is.

@Vee I agree on the cliffhanger. I feel like we should have at least had an idea what was up an episode or two ago. The Ready Room preview clip shows that 

The description for the last two episodes makes me think we're in for some cameos, both ship wise and character wise. I'll be interested to see who outside of 

I mean, fair! I always kind of enjoyed Tom and B'Elanna tbh but I get it! I think a crew of the TNG kids, Seven, Shaw, and some new faces would be a good group to start with.

To be fair about Marina, judging by the clips people have posted, I think her big disappointment was that kind of silly flashback of her basically being a frazzled mother and that she wasn't included in the action a little bit earlier. If she's happy with the Riker/Deanna stuff, whatever it is they get about their kids, and her stuff in the last few episodes, then I think most of the fans will be too. They've all been hyping it up so I have high hopes. I didn't love the flashback either but I thought they did a good job working her in as best as they could with what was going on. Honestly, I feel like that character was a bit fucked when they decided to do a changeling story since she'll obviously be able to spot who is and isn't one and they can't just have her hanging around being like "oops there's a changeling!" with the story they're doing.

Totally fait about DSC and that era. I like the idea of it just in general but I also love your idea of setting it even further back and going wild. I'll be interested to see what they do.

As for Geordi, I agree that that was a bit of a misstep. I know there wasn't really a way to get him involved faster but I do thing it dragged out a bit and there being no word on when he'd appear was kind of weird. Honestly though, I've had enough of Data/Lore/whoever to last a lifetime so I don't mind him not appearing for a while lol.

@Vee I'm really interested in that Starfleet Academy show, especially since it seems to be set in the 32nd century. I like the idea of that show, which could free of canon restrictions, and then whatever Titan/Legacy show they possibly come up with for the 25th century.

I'm so interested in crew they'd use for a Titan/Legacy show. I saw Terry Matalas say that it'd be Seven and then all the kids of the TNG cast basically but I'd love if they threw in like one of O'Brien's kids, Tom Paris and B'Elanna's daughter, or even Naomi from Voyager into the group.

Anyway, about Picard, the last two episodes have been really killer. I enjoyed the first season and the second season was whatever, but this has really been a step up and exactly what I was wanting out of a project like this. I've always loved Beverly too and seeing her get a chance to shine like this has been a dream.

About the Deanna thing, I've heard the truth is probably a little of both. I know she's been going around at cons saying she was available for than ended up using her, even though she didn't want to be in the US for the whole shoot, and that she was disappointed they didn't find a way to work her in the first half better. The show says she was only available for two months. Whatever the case is, it sounds like she's the main focus of the last three and that everyone, including Marina, is happy about her part in what she gets. I don't think anyone has seen the last two, but my friend has seen the next one and says the Riker and Deanna stuff is the best she's ever seen from them and that it's heartfelt, emotional, and really heartwarming and nice. I'm looking forward to it.

Really killer scenes between the guest last week and Picard (leaving their name out in case anyone has still not watched lol). Just such good emotion and the payoff was excellent. Nothing against the TNG cast and Jeri Ryan- all of whom are doing great work- but it was nice to see Patrick Stewart get the chance to act opposite someone who was a little more up to some serious acting. Never knew I need that pay off till now, but lad we got it all these years later.

@Vee Good to see some confirmation on what Amanda Plummer's whole deal is. I figured as much, but it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. Now just wondering what Jack's whole vibe is with his visions.

Thrilled that person is back this and I think we see 

Excited to see what they've got goin on with SNW. Not surprised about the lower budget, but they can make that work for SNW and a Titan/Legacy show for sure. I had no idea the costs for Discovery had ballooned up that much. Oof.

Nemesis should just be ignored outside of the first like ten minutes and I guess Data's death. So [!@#$%^&*] bad lol. I'm glad they're all getting a better goodbye together, even if everyone had to wait 20 years for it.

@Vee The show runner talks here about why they didn't end up going with the bugs from Conspiracy and how they ended up on the Changelings instead. Super interesting that he said there was a few ideas they floated but couldn't use because it would meaning killing a legacy character. It's a good read. Some good stuff about Shaw in there too.

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-episode-4-spoiler-interview-showrunner-terry-matalas/

Also interesting that he hints at the back five episodes being Troi heavy.

I assume they're definitely planning a show centered around Shaw, Seven, presumably Raffi, Jack, and whatever other legacy kids they decided to use.

Great episode and nice closure to the first sort of act of the season. I have to admit that the Riker and Deanna reconciling scene at the end really got me. The ending with the new life being born and the scenes of Beverly, Picard, and Jack convincing Riker of their plan were also stellar.

I'll refrain from saying more till everyone has a chance to watch it but I have so many questions about Amanda Plummer's character and that whole...vibe lol.

@Vee

The episode description for episode 5 definitely gives you some hints about who at least one cameo this season will be. 

If Riker's a changeling, then it would have had to have happened sometime right before the end scene because those scenes where he knew how to find Beverly and where he was talking to Jack and Picard about Troi and their kids were definitely supposed to be real Riker. Just going off what the actors and the show runner have said about the arcs for this season, it would really cheapen the story this season if he's a changeling at this point. I think he's just mad that his son is dead and he can't see him anymore while Picard's son is alive and he doesn't seem to care about seeing him. Plus now that he thinks they're dying, he thinks he won't get to make things right with Troi and their daughter since he hinted in the first episode that they're mad at him. I mean, maybe he becomes one later on or I'm way off base, but now, I don't think he is.

Anyway, I loved the episode. The best of three so far. The villains being the changelings is a cool twist. I'm enjoying the Worf and Raffi stuff a lot. The Odo shoutout was a really nice touch. The Beverly and Picard showdown was wonderful and well acted.

Yeah, they're definitely setting up a backdoor Titan or TNG Legacy show. Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes were even floating the idea of a show this week in interviews. 

A preview for the 5th, 6th, and 7th episodes accidentally aired early in some places apparently and there's a photo floating around from it that's pretty great.

@Vee I'd be for it too. Raffi isn't always my favourite character, despite Michelle Hurd being a great actress and giving a good performance, but they could toss her on there too. Again, it'd be very small universe syndrome, but they could even bring on one or two of the DS9 or Voyager kids that are floating around out there.

I'm a Discovery fan also but yeah, the dialogue can be very 21st century cringe sometimes. I don't know what the answer is but there definitely has to be an in between there.

I really loved Worf's introduction too and I'm happy that didn't drag out. He was never my fave back in the TNG and DS9 days but oddly enough, he's been the one I've been most interested in seeing again based on the trailers. I feel like he could have a really cool story this time around. 

@Vee I agree about the tone issues with the first two episodes. I'mr really enjoying but it does seem a little disjointed and off at points. The dialogue is a little rough in some places but that seems to an issue, at least for me, across most modern Star Trek outside of Lower Decks and sometimes SNW. It's a minor issue for sure but it's there. I wonder if the tone is a little all over the place because of filming inconsistencies. It sounds like they shot the first three or so episodes over time because half the cast couldn't shoot the first six weeks. They didn't even start filming with Plummer till the fifth episode and had to add in her scenes to the episode. Same with a couple of the others. I could be off base, but it's just a vibe I got. I enjoyed Amanda Plummer here though a lot. I still think she's just the face or the front person for something much bigger.

My other minor quibble is how old Jack looks. I think Ed Speleers is doing a great job and I get why they wanted to have an older actor since it seems like there's going to be a lot of heavy acting. They also obviously want him to be a big part of the franchise going forward. If that was the case, then I don't know why they didn't do another time jump and make it closer to 30 years. Them pretending he's 22/23 and born right after Nemesis is a stretch when he not only looks much older, but then having Picard list off all the trouble he's been in makes it sound like he's been at this for years now. It's a minor thing and Star Trek has been rapidly aging kids for decades now, but still kind of oof when they keep repeating how it's only been 22 years or whatever since they saw Beverly. I saw people say that they didn't think he knew Picard was his father till he heard it on over the comms, but I think he already knew and just didn't say anything? The way he was reacting during the interrogation scene when Picard asked about the father, the part where he knew about the vineyard and him being a captain, the part of where he said 'it was nice to finally meet you' when they thought they were dying. I think we were supposed to assume he knew.

Going off the description of the next episode, they're clearly doing some sort of parallel between Beverly and Picard's alive son and Troi and Riker's dead son. I just hope that they don't just have it be Riker and Picard dealing with that. I hope Beverly and Troi get some scenes out of that story and get to react to the situation at hand too.

Also, still definitely getting a vibe that they want to do a next Next Generation show on the Titan with Seven, the new bridge crew, and all the TNG kids. It's a little small world syndrome but I think it could be a cool concept.

I've been guessing Lore or maybe Worf lol. I can't see them killing off Riker, Crusher, or Picard. The show runner said on twitter that we don't lose Deanna so I'm guessing that means she's safe too. I guess there's always Raffi or Seven but I think they want them for a spinoff. So basically that leaves Worf or Lore.

Also, adding in fuel to the fire about what the villains could be involved in and someone we could see, I saw people mention that the show runner and the cast mentioned Preemptive Strike as an episode to watch to "prepare" for this season.  

@Vee yeah, I'm interested to hear more about the cutting them off thing and why as the series goes on because I really can't buy her cutting off all of them. Geordi, Worf, even Riker maybe, I can buy but I have a hard time believing she cut off Deanna and Picard. Again, a minor thing but I'm interested to see how it goes.

I've been thinking about the Conspiracy aliens too. If it's not those, then something in that vein. I feel like if it's them, then it's them and something else too. I won't post them here but the title of the fifth episode is already out there, along with a few IMDb spoilers that lend credence to all this. It will be interesting to see if it's a direct tie or something that seems more just inspired by that idea.

The new trailer adds a few more interesting things and has a lot of stuff we haven't seen. I can't really tell where Deanna and Riker are supposed to be since that doesn't look like the Titan. Saw a few theories that that's Amanda Plummer's ship and that she takes them at some point. Also looks like Lore, Geordi, and Geordi's other daughter are on the Titan soon enough too.

Also, what are you thoughts on the rumours that one of them might not make it out of this series?