watson71

Two of Rachel's better looks was in the mid-70s when she first met Mac Cory and around 1993-94 before she grew her hair long when she married Carl

29 minutes ago, John said:

There was talk in the 90s maybe 94/95 that AW wanted Kin Shriner as Sandy Cory. I wish that had happened. I wonder why it never did.

Yes the Sandy in 1993 was very cold

Once Jamie left Bay City in 1993, never to return again- Sandy, Blaine, and Alex Cory should have made their way back to Bay City.  Blaine and Alex Cory were never seen on the show after 1985, and a replacement Sandy made a few appearances with Maggie.

5 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think they knew, they just didn't want to make the effort.  

Anyway, I would agree with those who felt AW's finale was better than ATWT's. The last scene of a show should not be a dollar store globe. 

Most definitely agree.  The best part of the AW finale were when each cast member filmed their best wishes for Cass and Lila, but it was really the actors talking to the fans.  I wonder if these lines were written in the script or they allowed them to ad lib their lines.

Also, when Rachel was doing her sweep of the Cory living room, Vicky Wyndham stopped at Constance Ford's picture and kissed the frame.  I'm sure Wyndham improvised that.

1 minute ago, amybrickwallace said:

Yeah, but the gorilla thing was just so out of place in this episode. It didn't help that because of time, the last couple of weeks seemed so slapped together anyway.

I think AWs finale was head and shoulders above the finale of ATWT.  Goutman knew for nine months that ATWT was canceled- never pretaped anything with 90-something Helen Wagner to include in the finale, gave her a slapped together funeral when Wagner passed away, treated Eileen Fulton's Lisa like a day-player after being on the show 50+ years, and ended the show with Dr. Bob cleaning his office and talking to a cheap light up spinning globe.   Now that shows you Goutman could have cared less about ATWT at that point.

11 minutes ago, John said:

yeah he married Lila and Cass

Oh but Goutman had the Carolyn the  Gorilla return. Ughhh

Carolyn the gorilla was a nod to Carolyn Culliton the longtime AW writer.  Carolyn's gorilla mate was named Richard after Richard Culliton and the zookeeper's name was Sam Radcliffe after AW writer Samuel D. Radcliffe who passed away in 1995. This was a wink n smile to the AW writers that were on the show in 1984 who wrote the Felicia/Cass/Cecile capers, including being locked in a cage with Carolyn the Gorilla, and introduced the character of Wallingford in 1984.  

I was fine with the return of Carolyn the gorilla since it was probably done for Linda Dano and Stephen Schnetzer to remember how they met Wallingford.  I just wished it was done on Thursday- the day before the finale.  This would have given the 10 minutes of the finale devoted to Carolyn back so that we could have seen some flashbacks in the final scene as Rachel reminisced in the Cory living room.

Also, it has long been rumored that in the last few scenes Bette Midler's In This Life was not the original song selected, but it was Crystal Gayle and Gary Morris' You Take Me Away to Another World.   It would be cool if that ever shows up on YouTube one day.

1 minute ago, John said:

So outside of Carl & Gary thats probably why no other fan faves returned

Most likely- they pretaped a scene of Grant alive and well in Tanquir and placed it in the finale.   It would have been nice to get Iris and Cecile (Queen of Tanquir) back for that scene with Grant plotting revenge against the citizens of Bay City.

1 minute ago, John said:

How long between the announcement of cancellation and filming the last episode?

About 6 weeks- they canceled the show in mid April and had to be done filming by the end of May.

1 hour ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Things really began to unravel at AW in 1996.  I don't think they thought that JFP would raise AWs ratings demographics- there were weeks where AW was beating both GL and ATWT in the demographics and a few weeks where AW actually passed GL in the weekly ratings.  JFP leaves AW in a huff and is replaced by Charlotte Savitz who was working at NBC at the time.  I think she did the most damage to AW by dismantling the cast- the worst firing being Charles Keating in 1998 after winning an Emmy.  The week Carl "died" in the hospital explosion, was the same week they had Donna run over Jensen Buchanan's Marley and Grant.  Marley is disfigured in the hospital explosion and wakes up a foot taller now being played by Ellen Wheeler again thus ending 13 years of Marley and Vicky being identical twins. Savitz went through eight headwriting teams in two years:

Margaret DePriest- September 1996-January 1997

Elizabeth Page, Tom King, and Craig Carlson, January 1997 - March 1997

Tom King and Craig Carlson, March 1997 - April 1997

Michael Malone, April 1997 - December 1997

Richard Culliton, December 1997 - May 1998

Richard Culliton and Jean Passanante, May 1998 - July 1998

Jean Passanante, July 1998

Leah Laiman and Jean Passanante, July 1998 - November 1998

MADD was made Executive in Charge of Production in 1996 and immediately makes Executive Producer changes at ATWT and GL but suspiciously Savitz remains at AW until November 1998.  I truly believe that P&G knew at that point that AW would be canceled and gave the EP job to Christopher Goutman to "cut his teeth as EP" on AW with the promise to be transferred to either ATWT or GL once AW was off the air.

NBC could not risk to keep AW on the air and cancel Sunset Beach instead.  NBC gave SB a six month extension until December 1999 then canceled it.  Had NBC given AW a six month extension, NBC knew AW probably would have had higher ratings than Passions which probably would have been a flop from its premiere.  It would have been fitting if AW left the air on December 31st- just like Somerset (1976) and Texas (1982) did.

10 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

What??? I don't even remember that.

In November 1997, Felicia ran away from the hospital after seeing her disfigured face after she fell through the skylight in Alexander's penthouse.  Felicia is befriended by a homeless man named "Wally" who reminds Felicia of Wallingford.  Rachel goes looking for Felicia and finds her and Wally at a church slated for demolition.  Alexander follows Rachel and kidnaps her and places her in a sarcophagus in the church, unbeknownst to Felicia or Wally.  Alexander blamed Carl for the murder of his wife, Diana, and for Felicia falling through the skylight.  Alexander rescued Rachel at the last second before the church demolition and then returned her home.  This escalated the feud between Alexander and Carl, which resulted in Alexander putting on a mask to look like Carl.  Rachel killed Alexander when she realized he was not the real Carl, and Alexander died with Felicia by his side.

This was the beginning of the end of AW....

8 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

I really don't know what all happened. There was an EP change during that time (JFP to Charlotte Savitz). Also, there were rumors of conflict between RKK and just about every other leading lady before her, Jensen Buchanan. I wasn't following AW all that much at that time, but I'm sure someone else here can fill in the blanks.

I think the intention originally was to proceed with the Bobby Reno story.  When Michael Malone took over as headwriter in April, 1997, that is when things went haywire.  I think Malone borrowed heavily from his bible for the unaired 13 Bourbon Street and just transferred the ideas to the characters on Another World.  Bobby Reno become Shane, Lila his-ex southern belle appears, Cindy and the glowing tiki idol, Lucas lookalike Alexander Nikos, Amanda posing as Hadley Prescott, Rachel being locked in a casket in a church about to be demolished, etc.

27 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

With its 3 soap block in the top 5, NBC couldn't get its 3.30 soap to hold viewers after AW. Bright Promise is nowhere to be seen and Return to Peyton Place would be introduced in 72 with hopes of changing that ,but no dice.

It's a wonder that P&G and NBC never considered moving Somerset to the 3:30 PM timeslot following Another World, since Bright Promise did not work in the timeslot.  P&G had that mandate that their shows would not compete with one another, but they would move Edge of Night in 1972, Somerset technically could have moved to the 3:30 timeslot.  Not sure it would have helped Somerset's ratings, but it made sense from a scheduling standpoint to have a one hour block of P&G shows on NBC.

On the last few years of Another World (1997-99), Vicky shared scenes with Jake, Marley, Donna, Grant.   She did not have a lot of interaction with the cast as she did in pre-1997.

The first episode was not bad- it was easy to follow for someone who does not watch DAYS regularly.  I suspect by Friday that they are either leading up to Kristian Alfonso returning as Hope/Princess Gina or recasting the character of Hope/Princess Gina given the amount of time the show spent talking about the characters in the first episode.

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

CBS added All in the Family reruns in Dec 75 at 3pm and in its second week it was already in second place behind Match Game.

Week ending Dec 12 1975

1. Match Game 9.0

2.All in the Family 8.9

CBS 7.6

ABC 6.7

NBC 6.4

In March, 1973, CBS moved The Price is Right to 3:00 PM to go up against NBC's Another World.  When AW expanded to an hour in January, 1975, it was up against The Price is Right and Match Game, and then later All in the Family reruns (which was the top rated prime time program at the time).  With Price is Right/Match Game/All in the Family scoring high ratings, and Another World being the #1 or #2 soap at the time- was anyone watching ABC between 3:00-4:00 PM?   It would be interesting to know how large the combined audience share was between CBS and NBC at this time.  I would imagine between them combined, the audience share was between 70-80% of all US TV sets were tuned to CBS or NBC.  

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

That was an excellent year for TEON, with the Whitney-family/Jonah Lockwood saga in full swing. A legendary story penned by a master writer. It was must-see TV.

The 70s ratings really fluctuated.  Nine months later, in September, 1972, P&G insisted upon CBS airing all of their soaps in a continuous block.  This moved Edge of Night from 3:30 to 2:30, causing the show to slide from #2 in the ratings to the bottom of the ratings.  The quality of the show didn't suffer during this time, but the large male viewership and teenagers weren't able to make it home from work or school earlier by 2:30 to watch.  P&G and CBS should have realized the error and moved the show back to 3:30, but that never happened.

The 2:30 timeslot on CBS was problematic for P&G soaps.  In 1981, CBS switched Search for Tomorrow's 12:30 timeslot after 30 years to 2:30.  Less than a year later, P&G would move Search to NBC.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

For the 4 weeks ending August 2 1974 ABC had returned to top of daytime ratings.

ABC 8.4

CBS 7.9

NBC 6.4

All My Children lead as the top rated serial 9.5/34

It was probably a lot of scattered preemptions during this time as President Nixon would resign office during the next week on August 8, 1974.  

Phillips was financially making Bell money by co-creating Another World with him.  The Another World Homepage details that during this time Phillips and Bill Bell, along with Phillips' secretary Rose Cooperman, and Phillips' brother Arno were owners of Another World until 1967.  Phillips and the others licensed Another World to P&G and their ad agency, Young & Rubicam, during that time. This may be the first time a creator owned their own soap, even if it was temporary and in P&G's hands from the beginning.  The show’s official and legal agreement (dated 5/4/64) established that P&G Productions and Young & Rubicam would acquire rights to AW from Phillips and the others after 268 consecutive weeks.  They were paid $1,000/week royalties for the term of the agreement. A purchase price of $500,000 (over $4,000,000 in 2021 value) dated 4/10/67, to be paid in 11 annual installments between 1967 and 1977. Distribution: Irna Phillips – 39%. William Bell – 31%. Rose Cooperman 5%. Arno Phillips 25%.  So Phillips and Bell were making money on a show that they were not even writing anymore .  Agnes Nixon who was writing Another World in 1967 and made it a success was not included in the ownership deal.  

35 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

I think it was Harding Lemay who fleshed out Felicia's past, although it had been begun under previous head-writers and continued under Swajeski.  Lemay always used the past of his major characters.  Sometimes that past already existed -- Pat Randolph, Rachel, John Hudson, and Lenore Curtain Delany, for example.  And other times, Lemay created a history -- Steven Frame, Mac Cory, Sharlene Frame, and Iris, for example.  Nearly all of Lemay's major characters (whether Lemay created the characters or inherited them) had an achilles heel or a shameful secret from their past that drove them and influenced all their decisions.  That was just the way Lemay wrote.   So no one should be surprised he added to Felicia's history and made it important to her life in the present.

Harding Lemay fleshed out Felicia's past as Fanny Grady starting in Fall 1988 when Felicia was hypnotized by magician Oliver Twist played by Dick Cavett.  This continued into 1989 as Felicia was stalked by a stranger who later turned out to be Derek Dane, who it was later revealed killed Felicia's stepfather, Noah Grady in self defense.  Felicia believed that she was the one who had originally killed Noah.  Lemay detested murder mysteries and court trials, so I wonder if his story outline contained the "Who Killed Jason Frame?" storyline with Felicia as the suspect on trial.  Whether he penned this or Donna Swajeski changed it, the murder mystery and subsequent trial was one of Another World's best umbrella storylines because the entire cast was involved - tying Iris is the Chief of Bennett Publishing, Sharlene's prostitution past, the father of Vicky's baby, and Evan was Janice Frame's son all together.  AW was must see TV and on the top of its game in the Spring of 1989.

11 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

Kathleen was a great character and I would have loved to have her stay in Bay City longer. However she wasn't a great fit with the DePriest era IMO which tended to be unnecessarily sexist and weird about women's sexuality.

I was just watching some scenes from when MJ confessed to Mary that she had been a prostitute and that was why Adam had cancelled the wedding. I remember SOD at the time praising MJ for taking responsibility for her actions, but nobody seemed to think that Chad needed to face up to his role in any of it.

I wish they could have found a way to keep Kathleen on the show in 1991.  Once the show knew that they were going to go with the Cass/Frankie pairing, they could have used Kathleen in other storylines.  She was a link to AW's past, and the character was charismatic enough to be tied to other storylines.  A whole storyline alone could have been what happened to Kathleen while she was in the witness protection program.

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

Julie Osburn has a website on which she does not mention anything about Another World, so she might not have any interest.

She does mention a historical novel she has written but I have not been able to find it available anywhere so far.

Thanks for the link to Julie Osburn's website.  When you click on the "More" tab and select CV her resume appears.  She does have Another World under her acting credits, but even more interesting is that she wrote teleplays for both Another World and Guiding Light.  I wonder if she used a pseudonym since I don't remember seeing her names in the credits as a writer.

32 minutes ago, SFK said:

Maybe it was in her Lifetime Intimate Portrait, but I remember Linda Dano saying that upon her suggestion to TPTB, Felicia became a more sympathetic character rather than the bitch she was originally intended to be.

Yes, there is a big character change in Felicia from the way Robert Soderberg and Dorothy Ann Purser wrote her in 1983 (more Alexis Carrington) than the way Gary Tomlin and Richard Culliton wrote her in 1984 (still over the top, but in a comedic way).  Felicia was mad that Cass was seeing her step daughter Cecile on the side in 1983.  This caused Felicia to act mean.  Felicia even had a falling out with her secretary/assistant, Julia Shearer.  At the double wedding of Mac and Rachel and Sandy and Blaine,   Felicia smacked Julia across the face and Julia pushed her in the Cory swimming pool.  

3 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

It was so great to hear that he enjoyed writing it as much as the audience enjoyed watching it. ❤

The Locher Room needs to do a Felicia/Cass/Kathleen/Cecile reunion.  It would be great to see Nancy Frangione again.   After she left AW in 1996, she sort of fell off the acting radar.

Not sure if she would even want the job, but Wendy Riche could at least get Y&R on the right track, and Y&R could benefit from a smart, capable woman EP leading the show if the allegations about Morina are true.

From Another World, Iris Cory Carrington Delaney Bancroft Wheeler and Cecile DePoulignac aka The Queen of Tanquir

4 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Richard and Carolyn Culliton will be on the Locher Room on Thursday August 19th. Interested in anything they have to say about AW.

Carolyn Culliton was a writer on AW during the return of Harding Lemay and the transition to Donna Swajeski.  I would definitely like to know her perspective on that situation.