watson71
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Posts posted by watson71
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Does anyone know the specific date that NBC and P&G decided to end the 90 minute episodes of AW and spin off Beverlee McKinsey's Iris on Texas? Based on these ratings, the 90 minute episodes of AW were not working. I'm just curious as to when they decided to create Texas. I assume it had to be sometime in the winter of 1980, as the Texas characters started appearing on AW in June/July 1980- some like Reena and Kevin even earlier than that.
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47 years ago, on July 21, 1972, Victoria Wyndham made her debut as Rachel Davis. VW's 25th Anniversary episode in 1997 was probably the last time that AW paid attention to or honored its past history.
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14 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:
Jamie could've been involved with the three of them as well, and made it a quadrangle. The storyline could've played out well into 1985. I guess I just would've liked to seen Clarice have a really strong story. From the little bit I've seen on YT, it seemed to me that by 1985, the writers didn't know what to do with her. It also really sucked that Clarice and Larry weren't given an exit story either, they just disappeared.
True, but the thing about AW was that, no matter how bad it got, you still would love to see more of it. I feel the same way about 1982. And yeah, the poison dust story was absolutely ridiculous. How did Grant even come to contact with it if Mac had it anyway?
Grant Todd was the maître'd at the North Woods Inn. Somehow the Egyptian urn was left at the North Woods Inn, and Grant inhaled the dust causing a heart attack that killed him right before Christmas. Nancy found the urn at the North Woods Inn and gave it to Mac and Rachel as a Christmas gift. I'd like to know who at NBC and P&G green lighted this storyline, going so far as to take out a whole page ad in the TV Guide- definitely SMH.
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6 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:
Well, it does make sense when you put it like that.
I wish the writers hadn’t nixed their Larry and M.J affair story. It would’ve provided Kathleen Layman, Rick Porter and Gail Brown with some good material and it would’ve been a lot better than that Miami Vice rip-off drug storyline that they saddled Larry with.
AW was all over the place in the Summer of 1985. The show had recently lost Mary Page Keller (Sally), Jacqueline Courtney (Alice), and David Oliver (Perry). Rachel still had amnesia from a story that began in early March. Larry was involved in the Miami Vice ripoff story which featured Chris Noth (Law & Order and Sex in the City) and Roxann Caballero (Star Trek Voyager) as two of the "bad guys" that were involved with the drug dealers. Nancy had become hooked on Ecstasy after Perry's death. Cass, Felicia, and the new Sally (Taylor Miller) became involved in the Le Soleil spa story with Michaud, Daphne, and Daniel. None of these stories were really working, and things would only get worse in the fall with the urn that Carl Hutchins filled with poisonous dust from an Egyptian tomb in an attempt to kill Mac and Rachel. This storyline was horrible! The only story that was really working at this time was Victoria's introduction as Marley's twin. Looking at the credits from the episode below, there were 46 credited actors in the crawl- way too many forgettable characters in a short period of time.
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In looking at the ratings from Spring 1979, here is some information to see what was going on at the three networks as NBC and CBS made changes to their lineups at this time. Another World expanded from 1 hour to 90 minutes on March 5, 1979. The Price is Right moved to 11:00 AM time slot on April 23, 1979. Also on this same date, CBS moved Love of Life to the 4:00 PM slot that had opened when Match Game was canceled.
While Another World was not the ratings powerhouse it once was, at the time of these ratings, it was still NBC's top rated soap and was holding its own against the other P&G soaps.
The Edge of Night, The Doctors, and Love of Life are not on the ratings charts at all. The switch to 4:00 PM was clearly the nail in Love of Life's coffin.
Surpised to see how low As the World Turns and Days of our Lives are in the ratings. On the May 1979 ratings chart, As the World Turns is the lowest rated P&G soap, other than The Edge of Night. Was this the time when Days of our Lives went through numerous headwriters, because something clearly was not working.
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Margaret DePriest did serial killers on both DAYS and AW. Not sure if she was writing Sunset Beach when they did a serial killer story.
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25 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:
Linda said they placed her on the backburner for a year or so after she won the Emmy. At the time, she credited JFP for "brining Felicia back to life."
Though the story was HATED by fans, Linda, John, and Anna loved the Felicia/John/Sharlene story (which obviously won Anna the Supporting actress Emmy).
The storylines TPTB gave Felicia were definitely mediocre compared to the alcoholism storyline. First, Felicia shot and killed Lorna's rapist, Kyle Barkley, in self-defense. It also didn't help that Alicia Coppola left the show during this time and was replaced by Robin Christopher who looked nothing like Coppola. Coppola looked enough like Linda Dano that they could have been real-life mother and daughter. Christopher was a good actress, but not suited for the role of Lorna.
Next, TPTB hired Randy Brooks to be Felicia's editor, Marshall Kramer, at Cory Publishing. I'm not sure who got cold feet on pairing Felicia with Marshall. Was it P&G, NBC, or both? Was America not ready to see an African-American man paired with a white woman on TV in 1994? Dano and Brooks were both likeable and charismatic enough to make storyline work. Once TPTB got cold feet on a romantic pairing, they saddled Felicia and Marshall with the Misery copycat storyline involving Walter Trask. I would have much rather seen the Felicia/ Marshall storyline play out then watch the Felicia/ John/ Sharlene play out the next year. I think fans disliked the storyline because Felicia was portrayed as a desperate "other woman" trying to steal John away from Sharlene. That was so out of character for Felicia.
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6 hours ago, Faulkner said:
I’m sure this has been posted before, but Linda and Alicia together were just special. I find myself mesmerized by the scenes I rediscover (or many cases, see for the first time) on YouTube.
Yes they definitely had mother/ daughter chemistry together. Below are more scenes from the alcoholism storyline. Alicia Coppola should have earned a younger actress Emmy nomination for the death of Lucas and the fallout in the alcoholism storyline. Linda Dano justifiably thanked Stephen Schnetzer, Vicky Wyndham, Alicia Coppola, and Alla Korot in her Emmy speech for helping her win the Emmy. All of them brought their best to the alcoholism storyline. Makes me wonder if Vicky Wyndham could have received a supporting actress Emmy nomination and/or win for her work in the alcoholism storyline if they would have placed her in that category? Her work as Rachel was worthy of recognition during the storyline as well. The alcoholism storyline was occurring right at the time when Constance Ford became to ill to appear on the show anymore shortly before she passed away. I imagine TPTB would have included Ada in scenes with Felicia as well confronting her about her drinking.
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Below is a cover of AW's 1981-87 theme:
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On 6/23/2019 at 9:34 AM, NothinButAttitude said:
I will say this until I am blue in the face, but I always felt that the cancellation of Another World was the beginning of the end of this genre.
Another World was the head, Guiding Light was the heart, and As the World Turns was the soul. Once all 3 of them went back to back to back, this genre became a hollow shell of itself.
I agree with you that when Another World left the air, it was the beginning of the end of the soap genre, because AW was truly an innovator in the genre. When it began, AW was not like the other P&G soaps. The first major story on the show penned by Irna Phillips and Bill Bell was Pat's abortion and her murdering Tom Baxter. This was truly a controversial subject for a 1964 soap opera. While Agnes Nixon was writing the show, she created the first cross-network crossover, with the character of Mike Bauer coming from Springfield to Bay City. Producer Paul Rauch and writer Harding Lemay turned AW into a critical and commercial success winning Emmys and high ratings. These high ratings were no easy feat considering that CBS aired reruns of prime time's number 1 show, All in the Family, and moved The Price is Right from the morning to compete with AW when it was the first soap to expand to one hour in 1975. AW was the first soap to launch two spin-offs Somerset in 1970 and Texas in 1980, as well as an indirect one, Lovers and Friends in 1977, which would be renamed For Richer, For Poorer. Another World was also the second soap opera, besides The Young and the Restless, with a theme song to chart on the Billboard record charts. All true innovations that no other soap can ever say they did while they were on the air.
AW's trouble would begin when NBC expanded the show to ninety minutes in 1979, and then back to an hour in 1980. The expansion of the series to 90 minutes moved AW out of its 3 PM timeslot for the first time in its 15 year history with a 2:30 PM start time. Adding an additional 30 minutes of time to the series required AW to add more characters to an already crowded show, then when the decision was made to spin the character of Iris off on her own soap Texas required an additional influx of characters who would appear on Texas. NBC should have placed Texas in the 2 PM timeslot following Days of our Lives and moved AW back to its 3 PM timeslot. AW was in far better shape to compete with General Hospital and Guiding Light. After Texas was cancelled, AW waited 7 years to bring Iris back to AW played by a different actress. From 1980-99, AW would never regain its footing at the top of the daytime ratings, despite the work of many producers and writers. The show had many flashes of brilliance during this time- reuniting Mac and Rachel, introducing characters like Cass, Felicia, Carl, and Wallingford, the love stories of Sally and Catlin and Kathleen and Cass, the Marley/ Jake/ Vicky triangle, the introduction of Grant and Ryan Harrison, and Felicia's alcoholism- and when the show was firing on all cylinders during this time, it was the best on daytime and did not warrant the low ratings it was receiving. But one can safely say that for 35 years, Another World was an innovative program and its last episode 20 years ago today was truly the start of the end of the daytime soap genre.
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This week marks the 30th Anniversary of the passing of Mac Cory on AW, after the real life passing of Douglass Watson. There were so many outstanding performances during this week as the actors mourned Watson's death when Mac died. His unexpected passing was a tremendous loss to AW.
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4 hours ago, Efulton said:
1981 is pretty good. 1983 - 85 very good. 1984 is my favourite year and I watched from 1976 until the final episode.
Allen Potter (The Doctors and Guiding Light) did a great job at stabilizing and improving AW from Spring 83 to the end of 1984. 1980-1982 was a rocky time for AW in terms of storylines and characters coming and going. Potter quickly improved the stories and had a nice balance of characters on the show. I think AW would have continued to improve if Potter had not retired and left the show at the end of 1984. The only thing I would really fault Potter with during this time was the return of Jacqueline Courtney as Alice. She was brought back on AW's 20th anniversary with much fanfare, but she was not given a storyline of her own. They used Alice as a supporting character in Sally's storyline.
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3 hours ago, Aback said:
As a European man who grew up in Italy, I never had the chance to watch AW - although it aired in the country for a few years but it was never big.
However around 2008, P&G released a few years worth of episodes on its streaming service. I started watching and I was hooked.
The way the show was written and staged, it was like the best NYC theatre you could ask for. I still watch random episodes every now and then and I'm mesmerised. The actors had it all. Sometimes I wonder how many takes they would require to nail a scene because every scene seemed perfectly flawless from every point of view. Staging, blocking, dialogue. It was top notch.
My biggest mistake was taking for granted that P&G streaming service. I wish I had downloaded every single episode. Oh well. Youtube makes up for most of them anyway. I'm hoping the actors read the boards occasionally and realize their work is still being acknowledged.
YouTube has a few episodes of Another World, know in Italy as Destini
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5 hours ago, Paul Raven said:
Yes I forgot about Somerset.
Maybe it was doing better at 4pm than RTPP at 3.30?
Also the P&G connection may have been a factor as NBC stood to lose alot of ad dollars if they cancelled a P&G show.
I agree- Somerset probably wasn't cancelled because it was a P&G show. When it was cancelled it was replaced by another P&G show Lovers & Friends which would later become For Richer For Poorer.
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7 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:
Something I've noticed is that during a zenith of various P&G soaps, Kenneth L. Fitts and Edward Trach were supervisor and/or executive in charge of production. I'm not sure how many fans of these shows appreciate that fact.
Once Edward Trach retired and Kenneth Fitts became the Executive in Charge of Production for P&G is when the trouble started for the P&G soaps in 1995 with the great EP swap in the Spring of 1995. JFP at Another World, John Valente at As the World Turns, and Michael Laibson at Guiding Light. While this might have looked like a good idea on paper, it would hurt all three P&G shows in the long run.
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6 minutes ago, Faulkner said:
Once, in 1990, for lead actor. Wasn’t watching then so I don’t know what story he was nominated for. He lost to Santa Barbara’s A Martinez.
Schnetzer was nominated for the reveal that Nicole lied about killing Jason Frame on the eve of their wedding, his vision of supposedly dead ex- wife Kathleen, and the start of his relationship with Frankie.
He probably should have earned another nomination for when Kathleen turned up alive, and the manic depression, and the aftermath of Frankie's death.
The writing for both Cass and Felicia was really hit or miss after Felicia's alcoholism storyline in 1993-94.
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How is it that Constance Ford (Ada, Another World) was never nominated for a supporting actress Emmy?
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11 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:
Mary-Ellis Bunim became SB's first longterm EP (outside of Bridget and Jerry themselves), and she met the Dobson's at ATWT (during the second of their two stints there). Talk about a group of eccentric people...
To me, it sounds like Bumin was the JFP of her time and obviously she later co-created The Real World and was a pioneer in reality television.
At the end of 1984, when Allen Potter retired as executive producer of Another World, published reports had Mary-Ellis Bunim being transferred to AW by P&G and replaced at ATWT by Robert Calhoun. Anyone know what happened that Bunim went to SB instead of AW, and Potter being replaced by Stephen Schenkel at AW.
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Another World premiered on May 4, 1964- 55 years ago this week. What do you consider the 55 most significant events in AW history? I created the list below in order of importance.
1. Rachel kills Janice Frame trying to save Mac.
2. Rachel tells Alice that she is pregnant with Steve's child.
3. The death of Mac Cory.
4. Mac learns that Rachel is carrying Mitch's baby on the witness stand.
5. Pat Matthews has an illegal abortion in 1964.
6. The death of Ada Hobson.
7. Mac announces that Amanda is his first born daughter, not Iris.
8. Mac learns that Iris is The Chief.
9. Donna Love learns she gave birth to twins Marley and Victoria
10. Felicia's friends stage an intervention for her alcoholism.
11. Grant shoots Ryan on the train trestle.
12. Mary Matthews dies on Good Friday in St. Croix.
13. Crystal Gayle and Gary Morris sing the Another World theme at TOPS.
14. Pat Matthews kills Tom Baxter.
15. Carl and Rachel's courtship in New York City.
16. Steve Frame dies in a helicopter crash in Australia
17. Liz Matthews plots to keep Bill and Missy apart
18. Hour long experimental episode- the wedding of Alice and Steve - 1974
19. The 25th Anniversary of Victoria Wyndham as Rachel Cory Hutchins
20. The 20th Anniversary of Another World- Alice Frame returns and David Thatcher is murdered.
21. Pat Matthews kills Tom Baxter
22. Cecile is alive in Majorca; Sally and Catlin discover that Emily Benson is the killer
23. Sally and Catlin's wedding- Brittany is alive
24. Paulina Cory shoots Jake McKinnon
25. The 25th Anniversary of Another World on the cruise ship.
26. The death of William Matthews begins the continuing story of Another World.
27. Cecile almost marries Peter Love before he collapses on Carl's yacht
28. The double wedding of Mac and Rachel and Sandy and Blaine
29. Ada gives birth to Nancy in a late in life pregnancy
30. The 30th Anniversary of Another World- the 60s party
31. The Case of the Stolen Heart
32. Murder on the Honeymoon Express- The Vanishing Game
33. Lorna Devon is the daughter of Felicia and Lucas.
34. Vicky "dies" and is reunited with Ryan in heaven.
35. Felicia is framed for the murder of Jason Frame
36. Liberace entertains at Felicia and Zane's wedding.
37. Sandy kills Buzz and rescues Blaine in Wyoming
38. Vicky is rescued by Ryan riding horses in the field
39. Iris gives Rachel the audio tapes of Alice and Eliot
40. The final episode of Another World June 25, 1999
41. Sally Frame Ewing dies in a car crash
42. Cecile kidnaps Cass and takes him to St. Thomas
43. John Randolph dies trying to save Alice from the burning cottage.
44. Rachel gives Alice a nervous breakdown
45. The death of Wallingford
46. Amanda is pregnant with Sam's baby.
47. Jamie falls for Marley in the French Riviera
48. John Hudson is thrown from the lighthouse by the Sin Stalker- Dr. Alan Glaser
49. Summer Desire- Another World's only prime time episode
50. Michael Hudson and Shane Roberts are killed in a snowstorm.
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21 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:
It seems like that was one of Betty White's few flops...especially in the game show arena.
Just Men was on at 12 PM when many affiliates preempt network programming for news. It did, however, win Betty White a Daytime Emmy for Best Game Show Host.
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20 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:
I wonder if NBC even bothered with making promos for those shows by then.
The next week, NBC revamped their entire daytime lineup. They were probably advertising the new shows that would premiere in January, 1983.
10 AM- The Facts of Life reruns
10:30 AM- Sale of the Century
11 AM- Wheel of Fortune
11:30 AM- Hit Man
12:00 PM- Just Men starring Betty White
12:30 PM- Search for Tomorrow
1 PM- Days of our Lives
2 PM- Another World
3 PM- Fantasy
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Cecile looked great when she almost married Peter Love on Another World. The wedding took place on Carl Hutchins' yacht with a Great Gatsby/Roaring 20s theme. Cecile almost married Peter, but he collapsed before he could say "I Do." Peter's seasick pills were replaced by pills that could induce a heart attack.
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It will be interesting to see which episode of All in the Family and The Jeffersons that they choose to re-create. I wonder if this is a one time thing, or if they are testing the waters to see if reboots of the series will work, especially givien the launch of the Disney+ streaming service shortly.
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I wonder if P&G ever considered hiring Paul Rauch to be the executive producer of AW when he was hired in 1996 to be the executive producer of Guiding Light?
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Ratings from the 80's
in DTS: Cancelled Soaps
Posted
Thanks for the info. Definitely would be interesting to read the Daytime TV article about Texas.
I suspect that NBC played a big part in the Texas spin-off. When Texas debuted, Fred Silverman was running NBC after he had successful stints at CBS and ABC. On all three networks, he always liked creating spin-offs of successful series. While at CBS, All in the Family spun-off Maude and Maude spun-off Good Times. Mary Tyler Moore spun-off Rhoda. While at ABC, Happy Days spun-off Laverne & Shirley and Mork & Mindy. Three's Company spun-off The Ropers. When Silverman arrived at NBC, the network had few prime time hits. Immediately, Silverman spun-off The Facts of Life and Hello Larry from Different Strokes. Then, NBC put a Sanford & Son spin-off Sanford on the air that even Redd Foxx could not save from cancellation. Also, NBC lost a considerable amount of cash because of the US boycott of the Summer Olympics that was to air on NBC. Another World, while no longer the highest rated soap on the air, was still the highest rated on NBC. AW was probably still turning a nice profit for the low rated network, so Silverman and the other NBC executives saw the spin-off Texas as a solution to part of NBC's ratings problem without clearly thinking out the soap before putting it on the air.