Cat

Sending you hugs and prayers 🙏 Hope for a speedy recovery!

Potomac IA with everybody here that Potomac is the best RH show by miles. Not a wasted moment or story or HW. Loved the Karen-centric episode. Her family were thrilled to see her and show off the farm. I just could not love Karen more. She is good people. QUEEN. DOM! @DaytimeFan you are so right: Gizelle is seething with jealousy over everybody. The way she acted when Monique called Karen. Something tells me that Ashley and Monique were the ones meant to go to Surry with Karen, but after the fight, production decided to go with Gizelle. Also I hate the way Gizelle sneered that the people of Surry probably thought Karen was Beyoncé. Um, where were you born, hussy? This from the woman who used to tell people she 'always' gets mistaken for Beyoncé. Gizelle has never understood that Karen is actually very self-deprecating and constantly laughs at herself. The Surry folk seem in on Karen's joke. Gizelle is unable to comprehend because she has no real sense of humor. Robyn. Oh boy. Robyn is so, so concerned with driving a wedge between Karen and Candiace. The Big Fight is secondary to that. Gizelle and Robyn have been focused all season on breaking up the Monique-Candiace-Karen circle, and Karen could well be their end-target because they fear her popularity the most. Candiace threatening to see Monique in jail.... so nasty and so rude. I tried to have sympathy, but trotting out the dog rescue puppies was and her vengefulness regarding Monique is not a good look. She has ascended the moral high ground now, and uses it to kick others. Dorothy and her purse are getting a side-eye from me, too.

The filter on Vicki's face is something! She isn't lying, although she is a bit harsh on my Emily. I agree with @chrisml that getting rid of Tamra was wayyyy too hasty. Last season was a solid one for the OC, and that is in large part because Tamra kept it moving with her shameless pot stirring. Also Tamra had relationships with all the women. Without her there, the show is lopsided, weighed down by rage monster Kelly Dodd. Shannon is fine but I suspect her most impactful stuff will be her trapped in her house with the Covid. BTW, rage monster also got married this weekend: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/pictures/rhocs-kelly-dodd-rick-leventhal-wed-in-romantic-ceremony/

Cynthia looks absolutely stunning. I am LOL literally at Mike palming her posterior. He cannot tear his hands away! Yeah I was not a fan of Kary tbh. Very manipulative. Leeanne was her only SL. Bryant?

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy S3 of Dallas -- there were some moments I really enjoyed, namely the Ultimate Living business stuff, and Mama Dee's cooking lesson at her friend's ranch! It felt very soapy and like we were at Southfork. I also really enjoyed Kameron. Kameron's and Stephanie's family scenes are very watchable. I think the shocker with S3 was the fact that D'Andra basically sold her BFF down the river for Brandi. D'Andra had had such a wonderful S2 but S3 onwards exposed her true flaws -- namely, jealousy. Dallas has never gone in depth about why BFFs D'Andra and Leeanne are so desperately envious of each other. They single-white-female each other's looks and are basically two sides of the same coin IMO. I'm sure their dysfunctional relationships with their moms also play a part. I am one of the few who enjoyed S4 because as toxic as it is, it shows everything and you come to your own conclusions. I am strangely excited about S5 although rumor has it that it will be a short season. Very sad! Brinkley seems like a sweet little girl. I hope she is doing ok and recovering.

I judge Gizelle a bit more harshly on this issue. No question it must have been terribly painful for her when she found out about his cheating and baby mamas. My question is, how can she ever trust him again? And I don't believe the 'keeping the family together' excuse because her daughters clearly do not care for him and are fine with it being them + their mom. Financially, the alimony should be covering their needs, because his parishioners are apparently obligated to give him 10% of their income! And that 10% tithe screams SCAM to me. Everything about Mr Chocolate screams snake-oil salesman, and his megachurch appears to be structured to prey on people's faith and prise money out of them. Let's not forget that Gizelle was married to that for some years. She was a First Lady, by his side, there to make him look good in the eyes of the parishioners. She no doubt had to attend all the services and church-related events. Do we really think that Gizelle didn't know how the church was making ends meet financially? At some point, you will be known by the company you keep. Now that she is back with him, people are going to associate her with his actions -- and his malfeasance. If I was part of his congregation, I would be asking questions about his involvement in the restaurant 'for his daughters' and what money was used. Gizelle chose to put a respectable face AND a TV camera on that, to make his business deal look anointed and legit. Once again. It would be nice to see Gizelle fall for someone she loves and who loves her back. But from what I am seeing (Sherman, Jamal) she is picking guys with tenuous relationships to fidelity and honesty. She seems attracted to money more than anything else. If she is going to exclusively prioritize that in her relationships, well... Gizelle could do so much better. But right now she doesn't want to. ETA: btw, I am sorry for your loss, Taoboi. I hope you have a peaceful end of October this year.

Thank you for this perspective. Given that the Swedish strategy is structured for the long-term and future pandemics, I think it might be the way to go. However, in the UK, the whole thing has gotten so politicised and agenda-driven that nobody trusts the government anymore about this, and their faith in public health institutions is also eroding. This makes the ability to enact a Swedish strategy here more difficult at this time. I wish we had more first-person assessment like this about the illness, about symptoms, about what the hospitals do, and about what the medication does to you! This is super informative, thank you.

I don't mind Quad back in a FOH (or should that be FOD?) capacity. I am still waiting for her to be properly called out on all her fakery and victim-playing (and any other shady stuff she has been up to). Still so excited about Kari and Lisa Nicole coming back! Like @Chris B I am more excited for M2M than I am ATL. Looks like it! Lisa Nicole is so messy. She seems to thrive on the drama with her husband. As of June 2020 they seemed to be together, bringing awareness about Covid-19 testing to local neighborhoods in Atlanta (under the spoiler tag). She and Dr Darren still seem to be promoting their marriage like it is some kind of brand.

It would be great to have @I Am A Swede's insight, because I suspect the Swedish strategy is a bit more complex than just striving for herd immunity. I was listening to this podcast this morning discussing the Swedish experience, it was pretty interesting, thought I would link it here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/audio/2020/oct/07/does-sweden-have-the-answer-to-living-with-covid-19

One of the things I appreciate about Potomac is that it has enabled discussion of the fight beyond Team So-and-So. There are a lot of complexities to process. This is why RHOP is the best RH show by a country mile. And we are always going to agree to disagree at some point on this thread! As a female, I don't think any woman, mouthy or otherwise, should get popped (!). If they are running their mouth, crying wolf or spreading lies, they do need to get called and held accountable, though. I think what this fight ultimately showed me is how Monique lost her position of moral superiority by getting physical. What Candiace said or did in the months leading up to do this is now overshadowed and, possibly, unimportant, because Monique resorted to fists. Candiace fancies herself some kind of drama queen, so I fully expect her to milk her victim status. That is going to irritate the sh*t out of me, but she can do this -- to an extent(!) -- because Monique crossed a line, and that is taking up all the oxygen in the room. That's because BH was trying to force an agenda down our throats and it failed miserably. It's a little like Frons/Guza on GH trying to force the audience to adore Sonny/Jason/Carly, and doing it by tearing down the other characters. Bravo isn't quite that way -- once the network recognizes which way an audience is going, it usually pivots accordingly and tries to profit from the shift. Not just that, but one of Gizelle's closest confidants, who is basically like family, is Kal. I bet he feels a certain way about Pastor Sleezy's comments. Gizelle may want to secure her financial future with proceeds from Jamal's megachurch. However, if she wants that steady Bravo cheque, she will have to make some kind of statement about how she's not like her gross babydaddy.

I can see that standing your ground regarding Monique means a lot to you. Respectfully, I would argue that some of the opinions expressed on here about the fight have been more nuanced. Like @Antoyne, I believe they are both at fault of riling each other up and totally acknowledge that Monique should not have gotten physical. I give production credit the last two episodes for showing the altercation in its entirety, without commentary, and for devoting an entire episode on Sunday to the other women confronting Monique on what she did. We were treated like grown-ups for once and allowed to make up our own minds without (so far) undue influence on the part of editors and producers. You are right -- I am somewhat biased re: Candiace. My POV is that Candiace has decided that her SL this season is going to be Let's Bring Down Monique, hence her aligning with Charrisse, who spread the baby rumor, and with Gizelle who is looking to get Monique out. And Candiace can be an annoying barking chihuahua who thinks they are a rottweiler. Candiace has been trying to deal with her anger issues, though, and she did not give in to her worst physical impulses in this fight. However, she has been taunting Monique for a while now, and that has to be pointed out -- not as an excuse for Monique's fisticuffs, but as a factor behind why things spiraled. As Sunday's episode broke down, there were hands to the face, Gizelle's little shove of Monique, some waving wine glasses. Neither party covered themselves in glory. A week after the fight, neither Monique nor Candiace feel they are fundamentally in the wrong. That is problematic. As Wendy pointed out, Monique regretted her actions but was not remorseful. Clearly it is too early. When this initially all went down, it took a couple of months before both parties dropped their lawsuits/charges against each other. Won't deny that Monique needs help. Monique has undirected rage towards her husband; Gizelle; Charrisse; and Candiace. What's more, Monique refuses to confront them. Therefore, things fester to the point of implosion. Monique is easy to rile up and takes things personally. She is highly competitive and wants to be Top Dog, with the houses, wealth, successful business ventures, successful marriage, children, etc. She is piling extra pressure on herself to maintain this image. (Candiace needs counseling too, because that [!@#$%^&*] with her mom is some straight up abusive nightmare. Candiace and Monique are a lot alike actually. Maybe too alike to ever be friends again). My love for Karen knows no bounds. She is literally my favourite RH across all the franchises. She has been accused of favoring Monique, but I think it's too early to make that judgment. Candiace was not there in person and we couldn't see how Karen would have handled it had she been. Karen tried to offer a safe space to Monique in which to express herself, and I think she would have done the same for 'Candy.' And if she feels empathy for Monique, it's because she sees the forces of Gizelle and Robyn aligning against her, and doesn't want to leave Monique floundering. It was such a simple episode -- production really let that story breathe and hit all the beats. Which is why Gizelle's shenanigans stuck out like a sore thumb. Ridiculous self-production and a straight rip-off of Kenya. I couldn't stand the way she rolled her eyes, pretended to text, and then when she launched into her rehearsed speech, basically got high off the sound of her own voice. I don't believe she or Robyn are personally offended by this fight at all. Robyn continues giggling through half of this. And that BS about her and Mr. KnockUpSomeChocolate protecting their images -- Why is Bravo still trying to make this loser happen? I hope Twitter dragged her good. I sure hope so. The previews of the upcoming season are surprisingly light and fluffy regarding Kelly.

Holy [!@#$%^&*]. That Potomac mid-season trailer is IN. SANE! Are we already mid-season?? Feels like Potomac has only been on a month!

Oh noes! What is Bravo thinking demoting the queen of darting eyes and silent stares! Guess those Mikey scripts 5 months after filming didn't help this year!

Agree with so much of this. I liked both Peggy and Lydia (both in S8 *AND* S12). The problem with Peggy was her inability to verbalise her side of things and pin the other women down. Part of it was the fact that she is probably speaking Armenian half the time and so English is a sort of second language. Part of it was the fact that she was traumatised by her double mastectomy and the loss of her parents, and was on Xanax. And Kelly, Tamra, Shannon and Meghan played on that and gaslit Peggy all through reunion so that she could barely get a word in. I include Detective Meghan amongst the OCoven. According to Peggy, Meghan was ki-ki-ki-ing alongside Shannon and Tamra to Kelly's ISIS remark. Meghan has always been one of the most irritating RHs IMO. To see her lecture Lydia about the Bible and homophobia at reunion, and then learn she was a total Karen when it came to Peggy's culture kind of justifies my bias against her! LOL. I also agree about Emily being a hidden gem last season. She brought the authentic SL, the pathos and even a few laughs. I honestly would rather have Lydia there than Gina TBH. Emily can stay. I am not sure Tamra should have been fired either. It's not that I need to see her being a mean b*tch -- it's that I need to see her getting called out on it and held to account! I enjoyed last season, and a lot of the pot-stirring she did was fairly inconsequential and gave some impetus to the season. Without her there, I feel like the show is lopsided. We know there are a bunch of Trumpers on the RH shows, but up until now, I've been ok with all those hoes keeping their political opinions largely to themselves. I am not interested in seeing a party political broadcast on behalf of the MAGA Party, especially not this close to the election. Got to say, Kenya looks absolutely flawless here.

@Chris B It really does feel like the last good season in some ways. OC seemed to be trying to become something else, something it is not, in S13. I can't explain or put my finger on how, it just felt.... different. The trailer does look kind of juicy. There was a moment there that it gave me a sort of Vancouver vibe. I know people are uncertain about the role religion(s) play in these women's lives, or the fact that Utah isn't that well-known as a state, but i'm looking forward to this rather unique vibe. I've been to both SLC and Park City, the locales are stunning. Also, it's a heartland state, not a coastal one, and that's different from some of the other franchises. Also the cast is truly mixed in terms of background, religion and race, which hasn't really been Bravo's M.O. up until now.

The usual targeting of somebody (Vicki, Lydia, Peggy) whereby she makes herself the victim so that she can hold a grudge against them. I suspect this is how she has dealt with conflict all her life. It will be interesting to see how she stands on her own this season without being highly co-dependent on Tamra. Melbourne just has this naughty, no Fs to give, sense of humor. Love it. Same. Those comments about 'we need to thin the herd' were so awful. She is the kind of person who seems to rejoice in other people getting punished and penalised -- which perhaps explains why she is supportive of the WH's current miserable squatter. I guess if I hadn't started watching S12, I probably wouldn't be into this new series of OC. A few HWs on that show felt played out last season, though i enjoyedthe season as a whole. As someone else on this thread mentioned a few weeks ago, the current cast feels like the B team. Still, I'm ready to give them a go.

Thanks for giving me the heads up. My schedule totally had a new episode flagged for tonight and even subtitled it Season 15. Yeah, i like her chemistry with Diko. IA it was an unusual, transitional season and therefore it felt off. But still a pretty easy watch.

So apparently OC is back tonight for S15? I'm kinda looking forward to it. Even though I'm not sure how this season will go. I've been watching S12 RHOC recently which I have never watched before (the Peggy Sulahian season). I refused to watch it when it first aired because I didn't like how Shannon and Tamra were trying to passive-aggressively ice Vicki from the show. Anyway, it's actually much better than I expected (even though it includes that snot Meghan King Edmonds, whom I couldn't stand. Sadly, very little Jimmy Edmonds). It's better than S13 which followed it, that's for sure. I think they should have kept Lydia and maybe even Peggy. I know everybody was like 'Peggy doesn't belong on a RH show,' but I have a soft spot for the nice girls like Kathryn Edwards, Lydia and Peggy Sulahian. Peggy was genuinely nice in her understated way and had been through major trauma. Also Diko was a great house-husband, plus they actually had a monied lifestyle. The other thing I noticed about S12 was Shannon's manoeuvres. Shannon has been manoeuvring behind the scenes for years and yet rarely gets called out on it. I doubt she will this year either. Watching the season, you can spot the moment in Iceland when Bravo cut out nasty Kelly Dodd calling Peggy 'ISIS.' I can't believe Bravo would cover for this massive-toothed hoyden. What am I saying? This is Bravo. Of course they would. I wonder if S15 is going to be Kelly Dodd's downfall, Dorinda-styles. Also, for those of you who are fans of Melbourne and Janet.... she posted this on Instagram recently. Savage!

Heather McDonald interviewed LVP at the gorgeous Villa Rosa in mid-September. She shoots the breeze and talks about her life, so it is a very relaxed interview. Starts @15.50

I know Nene is a hypocrite, but I also think she has been poorly treated by Bravo sometimes. Bravo and Andy play the long game. They don't want to be seen driving these HWs off the shows themselves because they will get the blame. So they lay the groundwork over a couple of years and it is a steady drip-drip of a whispering campaign against that HW. It really is the BH method -- it reminds me of S9 and how the other women set up LVP with that Apple Juicy 'leak' (which I still do not believe she or anyone in her team leaked. Melanie Bromley of E! News said it was somebody else from the show). I like Eileen so it disappoints me a lot that she had no empathy for LVP when she was mourning her mother. She of all people would know how that feels. It is obvious they've been trying to get her out for a couple of seasons. She has been super-ill-tempered with production for years. She wanted Carlos King gone, but Bravo replaced him with a production team that did Nene no favors. And Kenya better keep watching her back because Bravo may turn on her too one day. I'm not sure Andy adores her like he does some others.

Catching up on some alleged RH news: https://dlisted.com/2020/09/27/sophia-hutchins-and-caitlyn-jenner-are-reportedly-in-talks-to-join-the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/ And Nene is going in on Andy Cohen and Wendy Williams. Actually, I agree with a lot of what she says. She is gone now. No need for AC or WW to utter her name. @4.27 is when she goes in on Andy.

Interesting visual breakdown/play-by-play of The Fight: https://jezebel.com/what-viewers-missed-during-monique-and-candiaces-epic-f-1845204452

Color me unshocked that Candiace is milking her role as victim for all it is worth! And I didn't like her harsh words about Karen. That contouring and look is... A LOT. Is she trying to channel Dominique Devereux? (Not that there's anything wrong with that 🥰 )

Potomac: Not a single wasted minute this episode. What stood out for me was the crew. They rushed in right away to break up the fight. On other shows, they milk it before getting in there. Also, one of the producers called Candiace "baby." The mic lady comforted Karen after Ray doubled down on his ambivalence. Even Gizelle's dad went off on Jamal to one of the crew. Cast and crew seem tight-knit. Also interesting: no ki-ki-ki-ing talking heads during the fight. Production let the fight speak for itself and didn't try and turn it into comedy. This fight was serious and affected everybody. The fight: It wasn't the fracas itself where Monique lost some audience sympathy. It was afterwards, when she ran up to Candiace getting into the car and tried to smack her again. I thought the producer had calmed Monique down, but that calmness was really a white-hot rage. Monique seems to be harboring lots of resentment, with her husband as well, and 'putting it in a box' is no longer really working. She needs to find a better way to confront her issues. Having said that... I do agree with @NothinButAttitude that Candiace runs her mouth, both on Twitter and in person, and tries to provoke very angry reactions. Thus far, she has got away with it because Ashley is in full possession of her emotions at all times. But at some point she was bound to come up against somebody who would lose it. That's when you ask yourself: How far do you really want to push it? Karen is one of my fave HWs of all franchises. These are both her friends fighting. I admired how she stepped in there and attempted to talk Monique down in the middle of the fight. Gizelle, her dad, her girls, and Jamal. WOW. The ashen faces of her daughters and her dad at that restaurant opening/press-conference (whatever the hell that was). Their slow realization that this restaurant 'gift' is not about them, it is about Jamal packaging a business opportunity as some church-y Teachable Moment. The whole thing reeked. I felt so sorry for them. Gizelle's dad could not even look at Jamal and I don't blame him one bit for his words of deep concern. All this begs the question: WHY would Gizelle agree to do this? Why would she force her daughters and her dad to play along with this farce? Is she really in love with Jamal? It is so hard to read past Gizelle's icy exterior. I feel like part of this is about greater financial security for her daughters and herself. But another part of this might be about Gizelle missing the First Lady life, when she had status and people deferring to her. If that is the case, it is sad to me that Gizelle (who talks the talk of empowerment) cannot see that she actually gained in stature when she first left him.

Finally caught up on Potomac. I can only echo what everyone says here: RHOP is the best of the franchises, and for a second or third straight year. I still feel like I am Team Monique, even though I wonder if that will all change after tonight! I didn't like the way Candiace and Gizelle dismissed Monique in her own home. Candiace can pretend she is done with Monique all she wants, but really Monique is done with her. Can you forgive your friend aligning with Charrisse who spread that rumor about an affair and baby paternity? I don't know if I could. Also Candiace has been in Gizelle's back pocket for at least 2 years now. Her motives are untrustworthy. Monique seems desperate to launch the Not For Lazy Moms podcast but she is going about it wrong. First of all, as Danny Pellegrino (a RH podcaster I love) pointed out, no podcast should cost $200,000. That is ridiculous for something that can be done in your back bedroom with cheap equipment. Secondly: paper flyers. Highly unnecessary. Thirdly, Not For Lazy Moms. That finger-pointy title has got to go! It's too judgmental. JMO. The scene where Michael shouted at the producer, seemingly breaking the fourth wall, felt a bit performative. I also wasn't convinced by Ashley's confessions to her mother or the group. She looked like she was about to burst out laughing. Maybe that was her nerves or embarrassment. Nobody seemed surprised in the least. Gizelle, interior designer. I am bracing myself for 90s decor and purple painted walls. RHONY: Yeah, the season wasn't exceptional, and people be clamoring for younger HWs. And yet the chemistry and love between these women is second to none. Andy was so present and engaged this reunion. He really enjoys these women and so do I. I will even miss Dorinda next year when S13 comes around. Are you kidding me? I was lowkey joking! I see Kyle keeps trying to make Encino happen. I have to imagine the Arroyaves put down US$6.5mn in part expecting that RHOBH cheque to keep on coming. Yikes. Seems like Meg Ryan's ex-stepdaughter is taking the fall for the Coven as a whole. Bravo fired an unpopular cast member, and it was a no-brainer. But while Kyle, Rinna and Erika are around, BH's bullying and inauthenticity problem continues. Right now, RH viewers seem to be looking for more organic relationships, nuance, laughter and authenticity in their shows. Kyle and Rinna are good at cribbing from other HWs who brought originality (LVP, Yolanda, Erika). But when it comes to pivoting, evolving or coming up with something fresh, I'm not sure Kyle or Rinna can drive that kind of shift. They wait for someone else to do it, then they jump on the bandwagon.