EricMontreal22

That's wonderful, my library has On Writing but I haven't read it since I was a teenager--I'll have to pick it up again. I have to admit I love Kay Alden's story--getting in as an enthusiastic fan and doing so well, etc. Where the Heart Is seems to have shared a bit with later cult faves like early Santa Barbara--not taking itself too seriously and maybe as well, having a bit of a perverse or shocking sense of humour and story.

I always find it interesting that Roy Winsor never seemed to actually *write* for his shows much or for very long... (And I wonder what really happened between him and Agnes Nixon--she didn't seem impressed when she discussed why she only wrote the first twelve or thirteen weeks of Search for Tomnorrow in her Museum of Broadcasting interview LOL)

I also think it might be interesting, for those of us who've read the book or seen the earlier movies, to discuss the changes made to the basic setup of characters for the soap aspect (this is where Irna, helped out apparently--I'd love to see the original pre-Irna rejected pilot). I haven't read the book since jr high (I never read the sequel) and haven't seen either movie in a while either, but I think I actually prefer the show as a soap opera... Some basic changes were due to tv censorship (just like they manage to, magnificantly well, make it clear that Betty early on has had sex with Rodney without even remotely saying it!), but others like making Rossi the doctor and not newspaper man helped shape the soap--as doctor he could actively interact with characters much better, for example. That said, while they still have the wealthy Peytons/Harringtons and the much poorer other characters, they all but eliminated the important aspect of the original with the very poor characters on the "wrong side of the tracks" (literally).

I admit, I was never big into GH, and I was so mad that my loved The City had been canceled (for the first half of 1997 I honestly thought it was the best of the ABC soaps I watched), that I never gave PC much of a chance. I remember watching the premier movie and, over the top-ness aside, liking it overall and then watching a few eps, but that was it. Then I tried to get into the telenovelas but never invested enough time or found them appealing enough (and I'm not opposed to supernatural on soaps, in fact I kinda dig it but nothing about what I saw of vampires running amuck seemed interesting).

A few questions though--Debbi Morgan's character was shortlived and then recast, so I assume she left the show. Anyone know why? (I know around that time her name was briefly on the rise again, due to her tremendous role in Eve's Bayou, etc)

Also, does anyone have a rough list of headwriters and EPs with dates? The wikipedia entry for the show is one of the worse for ANY soap in terms of that kinda basic information I so get off on

I know we have a Return to Peyton Place thread that, due to lack of any Return episodes, has become equally a PP thread, but I thought Peyton deserved its own thread, especially since now I know there are at least three of us currently watching it (you others are missing out ). But Chris B and anyone else, feel free to copy and paste any of your dicussion from there to here.

I've always been intrigued by this show, and intended to get the *ahem* less than legal DVDs some have been selling of it, but never did. Then with some of my Xmas money I took the plunge and got both sets from Shout Factor--the first 65 episodes in general (which I think is Sep 1964 to May or so 1965, I wish they'd date the episodes). Besides dating the episodes, and a complete lack of special features, they did a great job with the DVD sets (some of the episodes are in very rough state, with a few having unclear sound which is my only complaint, and a a couple in the first box set are the syndicated versions which cut about 2 and a bit mins--all that remains apparently, but most of it looks and sounds wonderful).

Anyway, within about three episodes I knew I was hooked. I'm already on disc 3 of box 2 and, since Shout Factory says they're having some trouble obtainign the rights to future episodes, I bit the bullet and ordered a set of (apparently) every single episode (over 500) plus both tv movies (and the unrelated two theatrical movies which I had seen many times already) from one of those aforementioned sellers--as I know by the time they arrive I'll be desperate for more.

What I love so much about the show-- Well honestly I wasn't expecting something of such high quality. Having seen the one episode of the primetime "rival" created, the ATWT spin off Our Private World which looked just as cheap as any mid 60s daytime soap, I expected something that would look like a 60s soap but shot on film. I know with 2 and later 3 episodes a week for a year, it obviously had to be rushed, yet the actual directing is often really great, even a few spectacularly shot moments that remind me of classic 1950s melodramas by Douglas Sirk (fitting I guess since the only thing I knew, and loved, Dorothy Malone from before this, was his great oil soap opera Written on the Wind where she plays essentially the Betty Andersen character).

The actual scriptwriting is equally great--so far there seems to be about 4 different writers or writing teams they cycle through, fairly big names in tv at the time like Robert J Shaw, and I was surprised at the literary quality of much of the scripts. Really good stuff. Finally the acting is basically the best you could hope for in a show like this--from the great older movie stars like Malone (she seems to have started the obligato Prime Time soap trend of having a just slightly past her prime female movie star headline the show), to the future stars like, of course, a note perfect Mia Farrow, Ryan O'Neil (knowing him now it's hard to think of him as the teen hrthrob back then) and a delicious Barbara Parkins. Ed Nelson, as Dr Rossi who is used to introduce us to the town and its citizens, may be the most typically "soap opera" of the major actors (by that I mean what the industry would deride as a soap actor) but he's certainly adequate for his role, is totally handsome and dreamy in a 1960s tv kind of way, and I think quite endearing as someone for the audiences to identify with (which is no small feat as he's had some rather bizarre and off putting speeches and character moods especially when ti comes to Connie--dated "me, man, you, woman" type stuff).

The other thing I love about it is how it really is in many ways a true daytime soap opera except speeded up and amped up (production wise--with location shots, etc) for primetime. In other words, while I love the Dallas and later primetime soaps, this feels like a bridge between them and daytime shows--the pace is still relatively slow, with story points carried through more with dialogue scenes then any action sequences, everything's lower key. It's great to see--I know Irna Phillips helped with the writing but I believe she just helped shape the book to work as a serial--she was out by the first episode. Similarly, so far anyway (I think this changes as the show gets a bit more over the top in later years with falling ratings--but I haven't read spoilers), the characters reflect more the older daytime soap traditions. There are no real out and out bad guys the way primetime soaps (and modern daytime ones) usually had--you usually get to see everything from everyone's perspective so even when someone does someting awful, as Agnes Nixon liked to say about her creations, they did it for good reasons--you get why they did it.

Anyway, I think it's essential viewing for any classic soap fan. I knew I'd find it fascinating, but honestly I didn't expect to get so completely *hooked* on it, I thought I'd appreciate it more solely for historical value. It really really holds up (even if I already have a few probs with some of its inconsistant writing--one of the writers in his Museum of Broadcast youtube clip admits they never had a bible for the show, something ABC desperately wanted and there have been a few, minor but still there, instances I feel already of characterization changing a bit to motivate plot. As well, because the stories are so good at overlapping each other I do feel that some of the big moments of payoff haven't been as ssatisfying or, well, BIG as I might like.). All said, it's wonderful.

And I'd like to discuss it I think we're all at different places in our viewing, which makes plot discussion harder than with the currently airing soaps--Chris, I know you're past episode 200 and into the colour ones, and I'm not sure where you are, YRBB, with your viewing, but I think beind me. I admit I'm still trying to more or less avoid spoilers, so any serious discussion of plot should, I think have spoiler warnings.

(My one complaint is, if you skip the credits and previews like I do, each episode is just a bit over 20 mins and I tend to watch it late at night with the intention of just one or two episodes before bed--that always becomes at least three episodes, as watching one more 20 min segment seems so easy--and some nights has meant watching 10 or more... )

But LIAMST did have very strong ratings for a while there -- so did LOL during the Labines period (i think). WTHI had about 4 major writing changes in its short time didn't it? (but man I wanna see that show).

I'm shocked you liked Hidden Palms--even by the "final" episodes?

Hidden Palms had potential but it fell apart by the second or third episode I think (I saw the pre air pilot which had that adult swinger subplot I was sad it was cut lol)

Disagreed, musically it was more generic to me.

JP I thought you meant the flop Williamson teen soap Hidden Palms--Wild Palms was the sci fi miniseries based on that comic book, right? I think I saw some of it...

Relax Take it Easy is about the only song I liked (for a while) from the too whimsical/precious by half, Mika.

I actually like La Rocca but didn't know they were still around!

I loved Life in Mono--I remember it as a teen used for promotion for the Cuaron updateof Great Expectation. Too bad nothing else by Mono lived up to it.

Used to be a big SAW fan and still have most of their essential CDs but I have to admit I have a lot less patience for them (when listening to the two disc SAW Gold it starts off tons of fun, and then by the end of disc 1 I swear I have a headache lol). The Only Way is Up is wonderful though.

(I do liek Scissor Sisters but it's not too surprising you do--considering they're basically a mix of 70s Elton John and 70s disco They've wrote and produced the Moroder hommage I Believe In You for Kylie and are involved in her new album as well as writing a Tales of the City musical)

I also much preferred the original SuBe opening, and yes, it would have been perfect for primetime, but the second theme was almost *too* bright and sunshiney. I've never said to myself, "This theme is too slow and sexy, it doesn't belong in daytime! I'm not watching this stupid show!" (Well, I may have said the second sentence, but for different reasons.)

EXACTLY. I remember people online saying just that--that the new theme suited daytime much more, etc. Bullocks! I thought that was so silly and the last thing that needed fixing with their weak first few months (especially since Spellign wanted Melrose, etc, fans to watch it who didn't watch soaps already--so it made sense)

I never knew Capitol listed their cast

rumour is that's one reason both were left off--so that die hard fans would buy those past video collections too. I wouldn't put it past Madonna.

(He did some good work for George Michael and Paula Abdul too--like the All That Jazz/Fosse hommage for Paula's Cold Hearted Snake. One thing about Fincher is he films dance REALLY well, somethign he got from his love of Fosse, so I hope if he does a movie musical he does one with dancing. He was fighting hard to do Evita, I'm a bit surprised Madonna didn't try to champion him for it.)

Was so pissed off this video didn't make her recent DVD.

It's one of the great vids David Fincher did for her (along with Vogue, Express Yourself and Bad Girl, which was also dropped from the recent DVD) and makes me wish all the more his plans to do a movie musical (a dark, "creepy one" apparently) come to happen

I wonder if there was ever any thought to making all the ABC soaps have credits like that? LOL I guess not (ABC had just gotten their awesome new ones and I assume GH got theirs around the same time).

Agreed with you--I actually find the beloved 80s theme too cheesy for its own good (as was Loving's late 80s booming vocal theme) but I get why people were upset when it went. I didn't get into One Life till the Billy Douglas story and I admit even as a kid I found the opening credits kinda half embarassing and half wonderfully perfect lol (I also liked Sunset Beach's original opening much more and never got why they claimed it wasn't daytime soap enough--though now I kinda do. Interesting out of 80s soapos only Santa Barbara--maybe Capitol too--really tried to emulate the then primetime soap openings with theirs)

Remember that Linda Gottlieb's one (which I admit I loved--the pre and post themes on OLTL have seemed ridiculously cheary to me--Llanview never felt like where I'd go when I wanted the rainbow's end or whatever) was a redo basically of the odd theme Jaquie Babbin did for Loving during her ridiculously short stay at the show, and Fran Sears kept for her almost as short run.

It aired when I became hooked on Loving as an 11 year old AMC addict (pre my OLTL love) and I admit even then I found the guy's lips sexy...

If they are I can't find them--but it's a hard search, since entering the word Titans brings up a ton of stuff.

And one Titan recap:

And opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SdrrCd-d5E

Did it use two themes? I remember the theme being Sneaker Pimps 6 Underground, which is a similar sounding song but def not this (wiki lists Sneaker Pimps as the theme too...)

Interesting that in the 90s even pre Melrose with Malibu, the soap themes for primetime soaps tended to be sorta steamy nightime sounding stuff, unlie the 80s when they liked those adventurous themes.

I was reading up about the crreator of 2000 Malibu Road, Terry Louise Fischer (Joel Shumacker, not a fave of mine, was co creator and main director). She quite the resume--worked on Cagny and Lacey, then co created Hooperman and LA Law with Steven Bochco before having a big falling out with him. Interesting: "She later took part in the production of a highly anticipated primetime soap opera pilot, entitled Daughters of Eve, which was to star Sophia Loren and premiere during the 1995-1996 television season. However, the series was not picked up."

Funny how I remember parts of it--I really should track down those DVDs (Jack where did you say you could get them?) It's so campy and over the top--it obviously was ahead of its time considering what Melrose became a few years later (and it has the girl from Elm Street 4 playing fat! lol)

Either here or in that Ladies of Primetime Soaps threads, Titans came up, how it was an attempt at taking some of the Melrose success and really doing an all out new over the top Dynasty. Someone commented how odd it was that so little of it was on youtube--by chance I came across some obssessed John Barrowman fan who has several hours of Titans on youtube--but edited to mainly revolve around his character. Still, might be of interest to some, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV32vK55n9c

20 of those clips

Oh and a short clip of a young Kevin Zegers as the teen

I'm a bit worried too, but then again Glee's strength isn't really in its character writing--the show is even more inconsistent with dropped plot and story elements then Ryan Murphy's other show Nip/Tuck--one week the club is the teacher's life, the next week he happily leaves it to focus on his own adult male singing group, etc--I actually almost like that irreverent aspect to Glee (though it drove me crazy with NipTuck which is more of a soap opera--soap opera, no matter how outrageous, doesn't work when storylines are routinely dropped and forgotten, character behave differently every episode, etc.)

Anne Dudley I should track that down.

Yeah the Freemasons can be a bit cookie cutter but are a lot of fun. (Heartbreak Make me a Dancer which they did for Sophie Ellis Bexter, etc)

I'm so willing to talk Prisoner--and if some actual heavy conversation picks up here, my OBSESSED friend from Aussie might be persuaded to join too lol (He spent something like 1500 bucks on the complete set...)

Yesterday, due to a wind storm I was without cable and my internet for a while, and ended up watching 12 episodes of Peyton Place back to back--and got very little sleep for work. So I'm on disc 2 of the second set and am so hooked I think I'll have to give in and buy the online bootlegs of the full series--can't wait especially since Shout! is having some issues licensing more.

One thing as a Twin Peaks fan I really notice is how much of a direct influence PP was on TP--I know Lynch and Frost always said they were fans of PP but I assumed it was just similar in terms of being a soap... I have read from a few people that the last season or so (when much of the original cast, and most of the older actors are ignored) is rough going...

I have the variety special. It is SOOO awful and bizarre it's kinda wonderful--the actors in character singing Broadway numbers like Steam Heat LOL