EricMontreal22

I haven't even seen any of the credits... I admit Secrets of Midland Heights interests me too--just as the David Jacobs soap formula seemed to be so strong with Dallas and Knots, this seemed a natural progression--would love to see how it compared with King's Crossing. Berrenger's would prob come next (partly as I adore Anita Morris). Emerald Point strikes me as fascinating--and ran a full year I believe, but I have less faith in the Shapiros (Dynasty didn't really strike it big until the Pollocks came in essentially as headwriters in Season 2 and brought out all their soap opera staples--at a rate and quality that Schemering called "soap opera on steroids and speed"). I need to track down those episodes I know people recorded of Flamingo Road too...

(Then again I've only managed to see the commercially released DVDs of Knots--so two seasons, and I'm desperate to find the rest of that). I'll try to type out a couple more interesting articles on this stuff--I just wish, for the long ones especially, I could figure out how to transfer the PDFs.

And another review of an 80s primetime soap from David Jacobs and much of the Knots/Dallas team (and another flop).

January 4, 1985

'Berrenger's' Starring Wanamaker

By John J. O'Connor

LORIMAR PRODUCTIONS has brought to the world of entertainment the evening soaps ''Dallas,'' ''Knots Landing'' and ''Falcon Crest.'' The studio's latest venture into what it prefers to call ''the nighttime continuing drama genre'' is titled ''Berrenger's'' and it gets under way tomorrow at 9:30 on Channel 4 with a special 90-minute segment. It's all about a trendy New York department store, bearing a calculated resemblance to establishments like Bloomingdale's, and the producers - David Jacobs, Stuart Sheslow and Diana Gould - promise to go ''behind the mannequins, display cases and tables for an intimate look'' at the owners and employees.

Topping the owners' list is Simon Berrenger (Sam Wanamaker), an elegant dictator who is bent on showing his three grown children that they cannot possibly compete with him. The unhappy brood includes Paul (Ben Murphy), president of the store, who is trying to get a divorce from Gloria (Andrea Marcovicci) so that he can marry Shane (Yvette Mimieux), who is also divorced and frantically searching for a young daughter kidnapped by her former husband.

Paul's kid brother, Billy (Robin Strand), has a gambling problem and their four-times-divorced sister, Babs (Anita Morris), is partial to younger men, especially the womanizing window dresser John Higgins (Jeff Conaway) and a Puerto Rican salesman Julio Morales (Eddie Velez), who will do anything, apparently, to become a famous clothes designer. Complicating matters even further, Babs's pouty daughter Melody (Claudia Christian) is scheming to push her unscrupulous husband, Todd (Art Hindle), to a position of top power in the family business. Melody and Todd are sometimes known to intimates as Mr. and Mrs. Macbeth.

Prominent among the employees are three very attractive young women who, tidily enough, share a Manhattan apartment. Stacey (Jonelle Allen) is black and ambitious; Laurel (Laura Ashton), a model, is fragile and strange; and Cammie (Leslie Hope) is just in from the Middle West and seemingly innocent, which makes her a prime target for the lecherous window dresser. On the periphery of this activity is Danny (Jack Scalia), who is connected with a questionable deal in which Berrenger's would be acquired by a conglomerate. All of this and more is packed into the first episode.

Like other nighttime continuing dramas, ''Berrenger's'' whips up plots to spare. Those that don't click immediately with audience-research data can be discarded without damaging the project's overall construction. Miss Gould, who devised and wrote the first episode, candidly explains: ''The show is very much fantasy fulfillment with beautiful merchandise, lots of glamour and attractive, upscale people.'' In addition to realistic depictions, she says, the series will ''explore human depth.'' But the explorations in ''Berrenger's'' show little sign of going much deeper than the pancake makeup used to encase those strange department store creatures who squirt designer colognes on hapless customers.

The advertisments for ''Berrenger's'' show a sultry, horizontal Miss Mimieux wrapped in lace and fur with Mr. Murphy, in a tuxedo, tickling her under the chin with a long- stemmed rose. The scene never takes place in the show. That is what used to be called exploitation. Today it is simply called something like ''Berrenger's.'' The premiere is directed as slickly as it deserves by Larry Elikann and Nicholas Sgarro.

(Of course ratings were poor and a year later a reconstituted version of the show, now on rival ABC, King's Crossing premiered with four of the same actors--premiering to very good numbers that quickly dropped. Couldn't find anything on it except this fan review:

"This was a short-lived prime time soap from 1982. It was actually a revamped version of another short-lived series "Secrets Of Midland Heights." When that series was canceled in 1981, the producers took 4 of that show's stars-Linda Hamilton, Doran Clark, Daniel Zippi and Marilyn Jones-and made King's Crossing. Although as a teen I liked "Midland Heights" better, I enjoyed this show too. Linda Hamilton and Marilyn Jones played sisters and their parents were Mary Frann and Bradford Dillman. Doran Clark was their disabled cousin who was kept in the attic by their nasty aunt and Daniel Zippi was a stable boy on the farm where they lived. As in the other series, Marilyn Jones and Daniel Zippi were the cute, star-crossed couple. I always thought they had great chemistry together. I was always sorry that they never became big stars like Linda Hamilton did, as they were all very talented. I keep hoping both of these shows will turn up on cable someday. Sadly, Mary Frann and Beatrice Straight have passed on. Of course Linda Hamilton became a huge star later on and Doran Clark and Marilyn Jones had some minor TV success in the 80's. Never saw Daniel Zippi again, but would love to see how the surviving cast members are doing now. ")

I found many articles on primetime soaps in the New York Times archive, but can't find a way to save the articles (which are PDFs) to show here (on the NYT website they all cost money). However, here's a short review of the mysterious, Secrets of Midland Heights, that I've typed up (typos are all mine). As an earlier piece announcing it said, the show was an attempt by Lorimar and the Dallas/Knots people to do a series focusing especially on teenagers (or, as the newspaper said, various forms of teenaged sex). (it's by their tv critic at the time John J O'Connor who wrote a lot abotu daytime and primetime soaps but isn't exactly a fan of the genre, so keep that in mind).

Dec 5, 1980

'Midland Heights' a Midwest 'Dallas'

by John J. O'Connor

The Lorimar Productions folks who bring you "Dallas" are now venturing farther into soap opera territory with "Secrets of Midland Heights," which makes its debut on CBS-TV tomorrow night at 10. This new exploitation of sex, money, and shifting levels of power encompasses enough steamy plots to make the old "Peyton Place" look like an early morning sermonette.

Midland Heights is a town somewhere in the Middle West (although the series is filmed in Santa Paula, California). The power base is controlled by a wealthy and tough old geezer named Margaret Millington (played by the old movie star Martha Scott), whose immediate family includes a bachelor son, Guy (Jordan Christopher), and a granddaughter, Ann Dulls (Doran Clark).

Mrs. Millington has her way in everything, from overseeing Ann's dates to deciding who will be the next president of the local college. Ann is worried that she may end up in a mental institute like her mother. This is understandable, as she has to cope with the viciously scheming Guy, who is determined that he will be the sole heir to the Millington fortunes.

Around this sometimes hard but usually soft core spin a number of satelite plots featuring young and middle-aged lovers. There is, for instance, John (Jim Youngs whose poverty is enhanced by an alcoholic mother). John, the true object of Ann's affections, would never be accepted by the girl's grandmother.

Therefor, John's friend Teddy (Daniel Zippi) pretends to be Ann's boyfriend, picking her up for dates and then delivering her to John. At the same time, Teddy is being wooed by Helen (Linda Grovenor). She is a virgin, and is "tired of being innocent." On a college hayride, Teddy nervously gulps, "You're serious about this, aren't you?" Holly, smiling, retorts, "Why put off till tomorrow what you can do tonight?"

Complicating matters even more, Holly's married mother (Bibi Besch) is having an affair with Teddy's widowed father (Robert Hogan). Needless to say, the two couples--the kids and the parents--wind up for their assignation not only at the same hotel, but in adjoining rooms. Overhearing the older couple, Holly loses her composure but not her virginity.

Some of the other characters include Burt (Lorenzo Lamas), a jealous football player who is having an affair with Lisa (Linda Hamilton), who keeps assuring him "The college crowd doesn't interest me anymore." Standing in the wings is Teddy's kid brother, Danny (Stephen Manly), obviously ready to provide the equivalent of young teenaged sex as currently being advertised in the jeans commercial.

Presumably, Guy Millington will be the J.R. Ewing of "Midland Heights." Played with a somewhat decadent feline quality by Mr. Christopher, Guy could even be a homosexual. Mama, talking about grandchildren, snarls, meaningfully, "I've given up on you, sonny."

This excercise in shameless pandering lists three executive producers: Lee Rich, Michael Fillerman and David Jacobs. Will the public buy such calculated manipulations? Only the rating services will know for sure.

From what I read, at least in the 70s they didn't--but ABC did (that was my point if it wasn't clear).

No, NuGreenlee didn't get one. HAH I don't remember the first Galen either, except that when I first saw the character (I was brad ne to AMC) they made that announcement--it was the first time I heard it lol. So she was the only one I saw.

Weird random historical question--when did actual figures--those boring, har dto do shapes they had to carve into the ice, stop being compulsory (or even done...)? In the 80s?

I just found out my university accountallows me to see all those New York Times articles that are for subscribes only, so spent about 4 hours (seriously) reading all their great, condescending but fascinating 1960s and 1970s soap articles. Anyway they mentioned in one this as well--that the rule was (this article was frm 1972 and I believe was about Love of Life) if it was a temporary replacement due to sickness they made an announcement, if it was permanent they didn't--mentioned a scene where a couple got married Friday, and then on Monday his wife looked completely diff but got no announcement. Odd!

SFK I have to disagree though--AMC seemed to do this throughout the 90s anyway--I remember specifically the announcements for Galen (remmeber her? lol), Natalie (even though it was plastic surgeryafter the fire), Taylor and Laurel. But they seem to have stopped recently--I mean even when we had Babe change mid hug.

How was the Skye recast explained? I can't remember--but I agree that was long enough not to need one

Gregory Abels has a ton fo recent reigonal theatre credits. It's funny, soap actors used to talk a lot more irelevently about their work and roles back then, I can't help wondering how much of this was defesnive (if the interviewer isn't taking your work seriously why should you in your answers) and how much genuine.

dc, where are those articles from? Gotta love the interested yet condescending attitude of nearly any soap piece back then.

Ron Harper had quite the career--he still works fairly regularly--but before Heart (ten years or so) was even Paul Newman's understudey in Sweet Bird of Youth (and was on Generations)

"Diana: But if its just for a day or so, they announce the switch. They don't mention anything if its a permanent switch. "

Interesting, on the ABC soaps anyway they always did until very very recently.

Of course Cruel Intentions' screenwriter/director, Roger Kumble was responsible for Prep/Cruel Intentions 2....

HAHA if this promo they show in Canada doesn't turn you off Sylph then you're a stronger man than I am That guy looks like he was auditioning for the Conan O'Brien character of his intern brooding Twilight-esque vampire (Do guys like this actually exist in anyone's REAL high school? They didn't in mine...)

It's being massively hyped here in Canada now that MuchMusic has picked it up. I assumed it was an American attempt at Degrassi but with a more specific focus.

Well do they need to have so many ones that seem to be men with captured and tortured women? I dunno, some might argue that visceral thrill you get isn't necesarily good

A NY Times article by David Jacobs on creating Dallas and Knots (which he does compare, after my comments lol, to thirtysomething) from 1990:

TV VIEW; When the Rich And the Powerful Were Riding High

By DAVID JACOBS; David Jacobs is a writer/producer, whose series ''Paradise,'' a western, is on CBS.

Published: April 15, 1990

I am trying to create television for the 1990's. I'm not sure I'll be as good at it as I was 13 years ago, when I didn't know anything. Tapping into the pulse of the times is easier to explain in hindsight than to plan.

When I created ''Dallas'' and its spinoff, ''Knots Landing,'' in the late 1970's, I did not anticipate that they would still be on the air in the 1990's, the second and fourth longest-running entertainment series in TV history. Nor could I have imagined the scale of ''Dallas's'' success. A hit and a curiosity on every continent, ''Dallas'' at its peak seemingly transcended entertainment and became a worldwide sociological phenomenon. Even as the phenomenon was occurring, I was hard put to explain what made the show, if not a symbol of the 80's, at least a singular expression of it.

The centerpiece of ''Dallas'' was the character of J. R. Ewing. Dramatically he was neither hero nor villain but a combination, the villain-as-protagonist. He wasn't created that way. In the first draft of the pilot script, J. R. was a more conventional bad guy. It was the hero, Bobby, whom I thought was more freshly conceived: player and playboy, the apple of his father's eye, likable but immature. The way I saw it, we would watch Bobby become more responsible and mature after his marriage to Pamela Barnes.

The development executives at CBS, however, wanted Bobby to be more conventionally heroic from the onset. I found the reconceived, less-flawed Bobby dull. Ordinarily having a dull hero at the center would prove fatal for a TV series. In the case of ''Dallas'' it probably ensured the show's success, for it created a void for the talented Larry Hagman to fill. Hagman played J. R. with the righteousness, charm and confidence of a hero. From the beginning, the character was so seductive, so watchable, that the producers and writers responded by making J. R. the one who made things happen. J. R. might not have been ethical or even decent, but dramatically he functioned as protagonist rather than antagonist - the hero.

J. R. Ewing's appearance on the global TV screen coincided with the beginning of the Reagan Presidency, and J. R. was a man of his times. Like his 70's counterpart, Archie Bunker, who gave voice to prejudices and attitudes that were no longer socially acceptable but still widely felt, J. R. proved unexpectedly appealing. His unapologetic commitment to self-interest, his unabashed belief in the corruptibility of others linked him to a generation that would soon be told that greed was O.K. and read on bumper stickers that Jesus wanted people to get rich.

In the mid-80's, a ''Dallas'' clone briefly replaced ''Dallas'' as the world's most-watched TV drama. ''Dynasty'' was a better expression of second Reagan Administration values than ''Dallas'' because, while ''Dallas'' was about the quest for money, ''Dynasty'' was about the things that money could buy. In ''Dallas'' money was a tool, a way of keeping score. In ''Dynasty'' money was an end, the grail that was the goal of every quest.

''Dallas'' was fairly modestly mounted: Southfork was big but no mansion, and now and then the characters wore jeans to breakfast. ''Dynasty'' was perhaps the most extravagantly produced series in the history of episodic television: the sets were more opulent, the wardrobe more expensive, the life styles more ostentatious - the characters dressed for breakfast and wore jewelry with lingerie. During almost any other period, ''Dynasty'' would have been regarded as more vulgar than ''Dallas.'' In the mid-80's, however, ''Dynasty'' was widely viewed as the classier of the two shows.

As it happened, both ''Dallas'' and ''Dynasty'' faded as the Reagan Presidency faded. Indeed, ''Dynasty'' could not survive the changing of the guard. It was gone by the end of George Bush's first hundred days.

Among these pioneer serials, only ''Knots Landing'' remains healthy in kinder, gentler America. Its continuing popularity is due in part to dramatic factors: ''Knots Landing'' has always been the least formulaic of the prime-time soaps. When the series started, the characters all lived on an aggressively middle-class cul-de-sac and had manifestly middle-class problems as commonplace - and overblown - as any on ''Thirtysomething.'' As the decade progressed, they became richer, their environment glitzier, the stories more melodramatic. But through it all, its characters retained their fundamentally middle-class underpinnings. Though Valene published a book and came into money, she remained a country girl. Karen became a TV personality but by projecting her real, off-screen personality: she remained the nice, smart, cause-oriented lady next door. Even the reigning villain, Greg Sumner, is not exactly a villain - he's a good man gone bad, a one-time idealist who took an expedient shortcut.

This, finally, is the difference between ''Knots Landing'' and its genre-mates. The other prime-time serials offered a peek into a world that was rich and corrupt and populated by an unhappy bunch; I suspect that viewers found some satisfaction in their misery. ''Knots Landing'' ushered viewers through that same world, but because its characters remained down-scaled and multidimensional, viewers felt that they were along for the ride. The pleasure of watching ''Dynasty'' and ''Dallas'' and ''Falcon Crest'' was voyeuristic; the pleasure of watching ''Knots Landing'' was vicarious. ''Dynasty'' and ''Dallas'' and ''Falcon Crest'' were about Them. ''Knots Landing'' is about us.

The continuing strength of ''Knots Landing'' and the success of two other dramas, ''L. A. Law'' and ''Thirtysomething,'' suggest that viewers these days are less interested in the rarified regions populated by the rich and powerful than in drama with some basis in their own reality. Still, I'm not sure that these shows are as expressive of their time as ''Dallas'' and ''Dynasty'' were once of theirs. The characters and format of ''Knots Landing,'' ''Thirtysomething'' and ''L.A. Law'' are modern, but it's easy to imagine the same shows existing, updated, in other times. I don't think that ''Dallas'' and ''Dynasty'' would have had a prayer of succeeding in any other era, save perhaps the Harding or Coolidge Administrations.

And a review by the same critic of The City--oddly this piece reads less like a review, than a fluff piece LOL

TELEVISION REVIEW;From Ashes of 'Loving'

By JOHN J. O'CONNOR

Published: November 13, 1995

Daytime soaps are known to be bizarre occasionally, but nothing beats the machinations that have gone into "The City," having its premiere on ABC this afternoon at 12:30. The new series emerges from the ashes of "Loving," which for several years has remained, despite periodic doctoring, at the bottom of the daytime-drama ratings heap. "The City" is the multimillion-dollar alternative to simply putting "Loving" to sleep, so to speak.

Some major "Loving" characters from the fictional, rather stodgy town of Corinth, Pa., have already been eliminated by a serial killer. A dozen or so are moving to "The City," set in a grand loft in lower Manhattan. The show opens to the sounds of congested traffic, shouting motorists, snarling cabdrivers and the wailing of fire engines and ambulances. Adding to the frenetic beat are zoom camera shots inspired by the MTV school of art direction, especially as used in "The Real World." Stodgy no more, friends.

At the center of this urban landscape is Sydney Chase, married to the world's third richest mogul and the hurricane force behind his communications conglomerate Chase International. Smart, gorgeous and, of course, venomous if need be, Sydney is played by Morgan Fairchild, whose mere presence in daytime coaxed a good many ABC affiliates into signing up for the series. Ms. Fairchild won't disappoint fans of her cool-with-a-wink sophistication.

It's worth the effort just to see her entrance, stepping out of a helicopter dressed head to toe in white Versace. "Give us your poor, your tired, your wretched," an announcer intones in a commercial for "The City." Sashaying into camera view, the ultra-fashionable Sydney pleads, "And please get them out of my way." Here, at last, is a heroine for the Contract With America crowd.

The transformation of "Loving" was overseen by Barbara Esensten and James Harmon Brown, formerly head writers on "Dynasty." They and Jean Dadario Burke, the executive producer, aim to bring daytime drama into the 1990's, away from the stilted upper-middle-class living room image that still prevails today. They are not the first innovators. On-location shooting is fairly commonplace today, and the element of glitz has long been exploited in shows like "The Bold and the Beautiful."

But the insistent urban beat of "The City" and its constantly thumping visuals add a new look and sound to daytime. Now it's a matter of juggling plots and characters, all of them brought under the single roof of Sydney's SoHo loft building, which she will now have to share, thanks to the treachery of an Australian tabloid weasel (Corey Page), with the new Wilder Modeling Agency. Beautiful people, ex-drug dealers, scheming photographers, altruistic doctors, even a young homeless woman brought up by nuns. There's a little something for just about everyone.

Sydney, you're on. Take it away, girl.

THE CITY ABC, today at 12:30 P.M. (Channel 7 in New York.)

Created by Agnes Nixon, Barbara Esensten and James H. Brown; Jean Dadario Burke, executive producer; Laura R. Rakowitz, producer; directed by Robert Scinto, Joseph Cotugno, Casey Childs, David Pressman, Nancy Stern and Andrew Becker; written by Mr. Brown, Ms. Esensten, Dana Herko, Bill Levinson, Tom Citrano, Ron Renauld, Kirk Aanes, Tony Lang and Millee Taggart; music by Scott Schreer.

WITH: Morgan Fairchild (Sydney Chase), Corey Page (Richard Wilkins), Catherine Hickland (Tess Wilder), Amelia Weatherly (Steffi Brewster), Laura Sisk Wright (Ally Rescott Bowman), Philip Anthony (Bernardo Castro), T. W. King (Danny Roberts), George Palermo (Tony Soleito), Randy Mantooth (Alex Masters), Lisa Lo Cicero (Jocelyn Brown), Debbi Morgan (Dr. Angela Hubbard), Darnell Williams (Jacob Foster), Alimi Ballard (Frankie) and Philip Brown (Buck Huston).

NY Times Loving Review! (it's an interesting read although not a very good review)

TV: 'LOVING,' NEW ABC SOAP OPERA

By JOHN J. O'CONNOR

Published: June 29, 1983

THERE is a new soap opera in television town. It's called ''Loving'' and can be seen weekdays at 11:30 on ABC, representing the first new ''daytime drama'' that the network has commissioned in eight years. One of the architects of the plot is Agnes Nixon, the so-called soap queen whose successes include ''All My Children'' and ''One Life to Live.'' Credit is also given to Douglas Marland, who, as head writer on the project, is clearly in charge of ongoing developments.

''Loving'' remains true to the basic construction that is the hallmark of all soap operas. Instead of a hospital setting, through which can pass a variety of sterotypes, the new show revolves around a university campus situated in a geographically vague Northeastern town called, of all things, Corinth. Moving right up into the 1980's, the heroine is a television news anchor named Merrill Vochek, product of a modest family background but obviously destined for bigger things. She is described in one network release as ''idealistic, caring and ready to fight for what she wants out of life.'' The going, needless to say, won't be easy.

In a special two-hour television movie that launched the series Sunday night, Merrill found evidence of a prostitution ring involving students at Alden University. Unfortunately, her initial informant was later found dead in a motel room. Scrawled across the bathroom mirror in lipstick was the message: ''Whores Must Die.''

A classic bit of soap dialogue was exchanged between the two investigating policeman: The first: ''What a waste, huh?'' The second: ''You telling me?'' Details of the prostitution business were kept rather hazy. It seemed the recruits were poor students who could not exist solely on skimpy financial grants from a work-study program. But the very subject was a signal that ''Loving'' is going to tackle ''serious'' stuff. Reportedly on tap for future plotlines, for example, are explorations of alcoholism and AIDS. More to the point, the prostitution gambit provided a vehicle for introducing most of the major characters.

Merrill can move easily among different groups of people. She is having an affair with her childhood sweetheart, Douglas Donovan, the boy next door who is a model of innocent goodness. Douglas is the kind of guy who, when finding Merrill and his mother in the family kitchen, can exclaim, ''Well, my two favorite women in the world!'' Merrill loves Douglas, but not quite enough to marry him. Meanwhile, Douglas's brother, Mike, is a cop who is not necessarily impressed with the powerful and their ''fancy shindigs.''

At the other end of the social scale, there are the Forbeses. Roger Forbes, son of a self-made millionaire, is a former Congressman with Presidential ambitions. He becomes the new president of Alden University. Someone helpfully notes that a similar position didn't hurt the careers of Woodrow Wilson and Dwight D. Eisenhower. In the process, Roger bumps to the lesser position of dean Garth Slater, one of the more slimy villains to grace a soap-opera stage in recent times. Roger and his wife have two children: the beautiful but dangerously scheming Lorna, and the handsome, athletic Jack who, in addition to running around in skimpy shorts most of the time, happens to be adopted.

Sunday night's movie also included the one-time-only characters of Roger's father, Johnny, and his former love interest Amelia Whitley, secretary to the university president. Scorned by Johnny, Amelia was desperate for revenge and, as it turned out, she was the organizer of the prostitution ring. After finally killing Johnny, she was hauled off, one hopes to an appropriate insitution. Giving this utter nonsense a modicum of interest was the casting. Johnny was played by Lloyd Bridges, Amelia by Geraldine Page, who kept lurching about wearing crazy hats and puffing on odd cigarettes. Faced with a hopeless situation, Miss Page evidently decided to unveil her own special impersonation of a Russian empress.

As the writers would have it, on the special and on Monday's first episode of the series, idealistic Merrill and rich Roger are falling in love with each other. She has qualms because he is married. He is determined. Daughter Lorna is watching carefully, eager to make trouble for everybody in sight. Meanwhile, son Jack is falling for delicate Lily, daughter of the abominable Garth. Finding her alone in the garden, Jack says, ''Hello, there.'' Smiling shyly, she responds, ''Hello.'' This pregnant exchange was followed by a commercial break. Returning to the story, Lily reveals, ''I want to be a concert pianist some day.'' Still waiting in the wings to be introduced are Merrill's brother, a priest, and Douglas's sister, a star college athelete.

In case anybody missed the point, an announcer at the end of the first episode boomed on rhapsodically about ''the warmth of the Donovan family, the mystery of the Slater family, the conflicts of the Forbes family - the passion, the power, the drama of 'Loving.' '' What the world needs now, especially the world of soap opera, is a good, unvarnished sense of shame. The one note of interest in this entire enterprise is struck, against formidable odds, in the solid performance, at times suggesting a wicked parody of Jessica Savitch, of Patricia Kalember as Merrill. Joe Stuart is the producer of ''Loving.''

The New York Times is littered with articles and reviews of Peyton Place, from the 60s on. Sadly, I no longer have a subscription to them and for non subscribers most of the older articles, including 80% of these, will only let you see the first paragraph. Does anyone here have a full subscription?

Oh and one paragraph I can see confirms what was said on here about Girl from Peyton Place being planned in 1965:

A.B.C. Plans New Show on 'Peyton Place' Theme; Actress Will Be Shifted From Original Series in Fall Schedule

By VAL ADAMS

February 5, 1965, Friday

Section: business financial, Page 63, 650 words

" The Girl From Peyton Place," a spin-off from "Peyton Place," and "Gidget," a comedy series, will be among the new television shows next season on the American Broadcasting Company network.

A few ones that you can read all the way through:

A great recent piece about the show when the DVD sets came out last Summer, with quotes from Parkins, etc is HERE

A negative review of the 1985 Next Generation tv movie is HERE

I'd love to be able to read all of this 1965 Suds for All Seasons article: "IRRESPECTIVE of any possible influence on the gross national product the nighttime television serial has made its mark -- and the mark could grow larger. Last week the Columbia Broadcasting System decided to present a twice-a- week evening serial that will be a spin-off from its daytime soap opera, "As the World Turns.""

Or an article about integrating the town "Will the Blacks say too little too late?"

Or a review the week it premiered: "ALLISON, Constance, Betty, Mike Rossi, Rodney, Catherine and Leslie, seven frustrations with but a single thought, ushered in a new television era last night, soap opera in the evening."

Reading articles about the 80s primetime soap boom (post Dallas), it's interesting many say the reason that after PP finished it took so long to do another full on nightime serial wasn't so much that PP fell so far in the ratings, or the flop of those other serials like The Searchers or Executive Suite, but that PP had been such a dismal failure when it came to attempts to sell it into syndication. This is why, David Jacobs says, he was told with Dallas and Knots to have at least one self contained storyline in every single episode--into their third or so seasons.

For some reason that opening makes it feel like a sitcom to me, lol. It's funny, those opening shots don't look like Peapack to me

I had to wiki Ruku, but that makes a lot of sense for me--for any of these shows that have even 200+ episodes, let alone 10,000. (Isn't it funny how DVDs now seem like clutter when before they were a miracle compared to VHS--I always wonder about a Dark Shadows fan who has all the commercially released video tapes and how those must stack up to the DVDs...)

A couple of Time Magazine articles on primetime soaps.

The long August 1980 cover story on Dallas; Who Shot JR (I knew that Jacobs created Knots Landing first but couldn't sell it so created Dalas, but didn't realize he only supervised Dallas for five episodes before going full on to his baby, Knots--there's also some great stuff about the story team) HERE

Season of the Night Soaps has brief bits on Dallas, Knots, Dynasty, Midland Heights and a hated miniseries version of East of Eden (by Dynasty's Robert Shapiro) that they say owes more to the soaps than Steinbeck. from 1981 HERE

A piece on the glamour bitches of these shows, from 1985 HERE

I find it wallows in the violence a bit too much as well. Call me a violence prude, but it's like gore porn.

I wonder this about these soaps too. Why not just Manufacture On Demand? They do it for lots of little primetime shows, why not at least try the existing daytime soaps? You can't lose money if you make it after someone purchases it! Or put the episodes online either for free with ads or via a price. Some money is better than nothing. It's really silly. Like when SOAPnet wanted Santa Barbara, but couldn't negotiate a good price because of the music. How much money did they end up with now? Not a damn dime.

Exactly. It's like that with all soaps on DVDs--even releasing a best of set would surely make them some profit?

Re PP--well I don't think Shout! could afford to license 500 or whatever episodes without knowing it would sell--btu it has put them in a bind. It just seems mean spirited of Fox not to release it (I was hoping Shout or someone would pick up Knots Landing if indeed they aren't releasing anymore--the way they're now doing Facts of Life since the major label dropped it--but I guess that won't happen).

Not sure if they'd view it the same way, but they got after him for uploading an episode of the original series, so they'd probably complain. I've been a PP fan since before I was a soap fan. I thought I'd never see the original series and now I have the entire series. I'm hopeful that one day I'll eventually see at least one episode of RTPP. The tide will turn for soaps someday.

I'm shocked they haven't come down on the sellers of those complete DVD sets then (and thank god the quality is decent--I've heard horrible things about the semi fraud company--who goes by diff websites most of them with TVDVD in the title--who advertise cheap complete sets of Knots, Dynasty, etc) So Fox owns Return to PP as well?

Some of the Return plots do sound hackneyed even by soap standards, but I still wanna see it. I know the producer said that they always felt like the "dirty little show" next to One Life to live (funny as only a few years later One Life ws seen as very non traditional) which was a family soap and that they should have been allowed to retool as more of a family centric show. Which is odd cuz PP, for all its shocking qualities at the time--and I know it was shocking (called by Carson a "Television orgy" etc)--really feels pretty "family" based at heart.

Connie had a child out of wedlock. They had two choices: punish Connie and turn her into a vixen or quickly marry her off to Alison's father so their heroine isn't illegitimate. You know how it worked back then Eric!

Honestly, I think I'm so used to modern soap conventions (and modern attitudes, though I thought I was pretty good at relating to the dated society stigmas) that that didn't even cross my mind!

At episode 59! (thanks for posting the airdates )

To be fair the Let's Be Like Melrose Place symptom hit Beach harder than The City or PC--Spelling specifically created a daytime show he thought would be the equivalent of Melrose, but in the daytime. That was why Charles Pratt Jr was involved in the creation (I never got why Josh Griffith was though) since he was MP's main headwriter during its top years (and created many of Spelling's flop attempts at a new Melrose), why they had the moody original opening credits (which I prefered) etc. In hindsight they seemed to realize this was at least partly a mistake--so they took those two weeks or whatever (when we got all the flashbacks) to retool the show--out went the film process look, most of the location scenes (which I loved), some of the cast (god remember how awful some of the original characters were--the runaway girl, the original Cole and Caitlin, Ryan Spelling of course, the pacing, etc... and the over reliance on the Internet... I did though like the Asian doctor who was quickly replaced) Still even at its worse, SuB looked brilliant compared to Passions.

I actually really liked the DePriest period myself, but that was also when I was around to watch it the most. It was a good mix of camp I thought (something DePriest seems to have been doing since her first soap opera she created--Where the Heart Is)

The show has been repeated in the UK and elsewhere a few times--I don't assume Spelling or whoever ownes it charges THAT much for it? (I know the first 12 eps are on DVD in Germany--do they have the English track?)

Interesting--I haven't seen her name in the era of Peyton I'm at right now. I know Dynasty's Pollock's biggest success was their ratings surge at Doctors in the 70s. (I always kinda forget that the Doctors had a few eras where it was VERY popular)