EricMontreal22

I'm SO SO glad you guys called out all those "soaps" with their annoying "this is a comedy scene" music. I remember one critic who liked Bros and Sis (at least in the superior early years) but wrote about how he cringed whenever the goofy music would start. It really telegraphs the humour and makes it seem even more cutesy. There's room for these kinds of shows (I have cautious optimism that Good Christian Belles, or GCB as it's now stupidly called, can be what Desperate Housewives briefly was, since it has a decent cast and is from Robert Harling who has had some awful misses, but did write the original play of Steel Magnolias, and the screenplays for SoapDish and First Wives Club), but it did annoy me that for a while the networks seemed scared of having a "played straight" prime time soap not hiding as something else.

Right, I do think you have to be smart, and aware, of what words you use, when. I have a friend (maybe more an aquantance) who recently moved from the UK (if that has any relevence) and refers to asian people, fairly innocently as "chinamen"--a term it hought died off in my grandparents generation. When people call him on it, he gets more arrogant, insisting he doesn't mean it racistly, isn't racist, blah blah--but he seems to now use it almost as a pride thing, that he refuses to "conform" to be PC, which I think completely misses the point. (he's a bit dense, anyway...)

In this clip Charles talks to Kate (the same first Kate actress I think, who comes off better here) about the death of Chuck's father--I forgot Phoebe was his step mom, not mother like with Linc and Ann. Was Paul Martin presumed dead when the show started--Kate mentions how he wasn't a prisoner of war, but is dead.

Thanks! He's the one I remember in the I Love Lucci marathon (as you can guess from that photo). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHkeMCDR8mg

Are there pics of all the Lincs? I've seen some of at least one of the two '71 ones.

It's such a compliicated issue, but I do kinda agree with Whoopi more than others. If we're talking about what a place--like this stupid hunting camp, was actually historically called, especially when it's used in the matter of news or politics, it makes sense to use the word. I actually had to look it up because the bleeping out of it on that clip confused me as to what they were even discussing. (I knew it was the N word but not that it was a camp in the Perry family, with the title +head etc). I think it's right to say that sometimes suing words like that in the proper context (ie among my other gay friends, I admit, and sometimes I do catch myself saying it and regret it, we all use the term fag or faggy quite a bit--but I wouldn't with a gay person I didn't know who didn't know my sometimes weird humour, or among straight people for thee most part--and I'd still be quite upset if a stranger ever called me that). Actually it does surprise me how I notice when they report on gay hate crimes on the neews, they don't seem particularly afraid to use that term--and of course you still hear it in movies (think of all the 80s comedies that called people faggot as humour--from Eddie Murphy standup to Teen Wolf and Crocodile Dundee), on normal tv stations and it's not bleeped out the way swear words would be. But I guess it's all relative. I know Jewish friends who do sometimes refer to themselves as Jews, or a Jew and have no problem using that term, but do take offence if someone says an expression like "to jew you out of money". So I never think twice about saying someon e is a Jew, I guess I should. But I would think twice of, say, calling them "Oh, that Jew"... Then again many people still say to "gyp someone out of money" and don't even seem to realize that it is offensive towards Gypsies... And I think I've talked myself into a circle.

Yeah, Linc moved away for a while. Karan certainly would have been too old (IMHO) for Kitty/Kelly... (and less than ten years Ruth Warrick's junior but I guess that's less of an issue). Did they ever mention the name of Chuck's parents who died before the show in a crash, which is why Charles and Phoebe were looking after their grandson?

Lincoln Tyler (James Karen, 1970; Paul Dumont, 1971; Nicholas Pryor (1971); Peter White (1974–2005) is what Wiki says. I believe the 1971 episode that aired during the first I Love Lucci marathon has one of the second Lincs, but they seemed ot have trouble with casting him until White returned as the new Linc. James Karen has a decent resume there. He looks more familiar from his character actor work in the 80s--when he was Pathmark spokesman and was in Poltergeist, etc He was a good 15 years older than Peter White, which may have been part of the issue.

It does seem that by 1975, I guess with Nixon gone, OLTL lost, or were starting to lose, a lot of their more quirky (and of course ethnic) characters, even though it seems like it still was faily solid, if not groundbreaking, soap, till it started to climb again. Patricia Roe doesn't have many screen credits, though Nixon mayhave known her from GL. I don't think I've seen Alice's soap work, though I do remember her as Ellen's mom on Ellen. I am pretty sure (but it's just conjecture on my part), that Ted would have been recast if Agnes hadn't known he would be quickly killed off from the start--he stumbles over his lines in all the clips I've seen (there's a lot more of him in that Daytime to Remember episode where Erica has her speech, and Phil collapses in his place--with some hysterical/great dizzy visual effects--from a gas leak). I guess split screens became possible as soon as they were no longer live, though you don't see a lot of it in older soaps. And yes, the dream would be even better in colour (I picture a lot of psychedelic effects...) I love that kind of stuff--of course even those old 1950 GL radio episodes of GL have some relatively out there nightmare and dream sequences with echoing voices, shrill organ music, etc. But it did seem to be more an ABC soap thing back then.

Oh, I'm definitely in agreement there.

It was better than nearly all of last season--I still think the first half of season one was a lot stronger, but I admit the character and story stuff--even when it is dpretty stupid, has so far been more consistant (of couse it's been three episodes) than last year. Maybe consulting producer Marti Noxon, etc, are helping a bit. I am kinda tired of Mercedes vs Rachel though, I thought we played that out already. I think I missed that line--ven if not amazing it's a big change from when he sang Sing from Chorus Line and couldn't hold one note, to singing one of the more rhythmically and key change challenging songs in classic musical theatre...

Oddly about Jordan Charney--he was a temporary replacement for Phil only, but had worked with Agnes on AW as Sam Lucas (and went to Somerset), and then was Vince Wolek on OLTL from 75-77 which seems bizarre to me--I would never have cast the same actor as Vince as Phil--as well as returning to AMC briefly as Mr Bodine... I remember him most as Jack's boss on Three's Company, which makes me think he was more of a Vince than a Charlie... .

LOL I have no idea who Marion was--just that she played the second version of her in 71-73 on GL, lol. The Eileen scenes were odd, but I guess they were already telegraphing the Ruth romance. I actually have always liked Joe, but I'll admit he was alwayus pretty boring and square (Ruth at least had more of a spark and outspokeness), but that of course was kinda his appeal and purpose from the very start. How long was Eileen on the OLTL canvas and when was she recast? It is a funny cameo (although as a Nixon fan, I love that they were bridging the shows from the start), and while I guess her and Joe were meant to have been old friends, she does seem all in his face, as you say. I know many complained that Eileen was never mentioned when Joe Riley died or she discovered she had a new twin, with Joe's twin Tom. Hatch really did have that dreamy, sensitive teen idol thing going on. I am pretty sure I read that he left on his own, and wanted to persue primetime (where he had a pretty successful career of course). I've always wondered when his recast happened--was it when he was missing in Vietname, or at just a random story point? Nick Benedict seemed to be a popular recast though, even if he never really went on to do much else major on tv or in movies though i guess he was on Y&R and Another Life. (I have no idea about Jordan Charney who played the role in 1975 until Nick returned--he couldhave been temporary or just not worked out...). I admit I like Gorney's oddness, and even though I've not seen all that much of her Tara, I associate that with Tara.

As my posts have said before, I had a lot of trouble getting them to work for ages, but now they work well and the quality is better than a lot of youtube videos. I have no idea why she chose the three episdes from the 2000s though up there, or who chose them (they're not awful, one is the 2005 anniversary episode which makes sense, and was the end of the baby switch, and the other two seem to be from the first month of McTavish's return where we still have some Bianca/Lena stuff, and David and Anna lose Leora--but those so seem kinda random out of all the episodes she could put up, especially as no othershave been included). The lecture that's on there given to the Paley center is fascinating, mainly about AMC and OLTL but is worth watching (the second one starts with a bit about Nicki/Vicki) albeit very long. And the two 1970s episodes are great--and yeah, it's especially good to have two that focus a lot on Amy (her nightmare sequence at the end of Episode 21 is hysterical camp--I actually miss when AMC regularly had far out dream sequences--they never completely lost it, but up till the mid 90s or so they were a regular occurence). And yes, I'm glad they recast that Kate (and recast so well)--she does seem like a not so secret drunk, lol. Wiki says she was played by three actresses--She was played by Kate Harrington briefly in 1970 then by Christine Thomas, 1970; and finally by Kay Campbell, 1970 to 1985. I wonder who is in that clip--it's episode 51 so would have been March or so of '70 so maybe it's Thomas, as I remember hearing the first Kate was replaced within weeks or months. Kate Harrington apparently went on to play Marion Conway.

He does age very well (I also think James Mitchell looked the same for YEARS, until his final few years). Canary really doesn't look all that different from his role on Peyton Place. In the past few years, I have noticed he looks more tired and not quite as strong--but I think he still has aged very well, and for a long time there did look virtually exactly the same.

I'm sure vocally he was helped in the studio, but yeah I guess they'll happily forget about the fact he apparently can't sing...

I get the feeling she holds her the most responsible... ANd is saving her for last. I hink it's good that the creator says all of this will wrap up in 13 episodes, which i hope means it doesn't suffer from Murder One problems.

She was fiercely independant, so in that respect Ithink she was similar. I've only seen her in the scene from that 1969 episode--it['s too bad nothing from the Odyssey House story seems to exist

I actually liked the week of Dec 1987 episodes posted a lot (I think that's what you mean about the Cliff in the jungle story). It does seem to be an era where the soap was on a bit of a downslide.

Yeah the Eric the clown stuff was particularly a mess. I think they were trying to contain the cast more, but there;s probably a reason why Agnes Nixon came back as HW not long after.

I rack that up to Peggy O'Shea, who I think is such an underated soap writer. From all I've seen, the show crumbled into full on camp when Schnessel became HW--especially after a year. All Her Children implies that Agnes thought of herself as Cathy in a way. I know she was very involved in casting back then, I wonder if the |not typical soap starlet" look was on purpose.

The late 80s were when the show was in a bit of a slump and Behr was hired as EP--and she hired Margaret DePriest to try to cut back on cast and integrate the community more (while SOD said the show was in a slump under DePriest, it seemed like she did her job, and was quickly hired over at OLTL to do the same, which didn't happen as well but OLTL was in a worst state). I know many felt AMC from '87-'89 got more and more fragmented. Once DePriest moved to OLTL, Agnes Nixon returned to head write (with McTavish) for the next two years.

I admit, I've never taken to what I've seen of the Rauch era the way many have--though I do think when Peggy O'Shea was writing it was still pretty classic soap--much less so when she left (or was fired?). It does seem like Gordon Russell took some time to really find his feet with the show--after Agnes left in '73, even though she speaks about helping Russell write the show for a year after, it took till '76 or so to start to really seem like compelling soap again. It's interesting, one of LaGuardia's soap books from the mid 70s says that OLTL had already become more of a fantasy and lost its original issues. One character I wish we could see more clips of is Cathy Craig, who in the last years Nixon wrote seemed to be the show's heroine, more so than Vicki.

Really? I think the first five years sounded pretty amazing. It does seem like in the mid 70s it got kinda dull.

She certainly seemed to mention it in every episode lol--but I know some criticized it saying it was just dialogue tacked on to a normal soap story. That photo most be a posed shot for magazines.