vetsoapfan

21 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I got the whole series on blu ray when it was released a few years ago.

 

Many years ago, when LHOTP was released on DVD for the very first time (there was no blu-ray option available then), it came from a company called Imavision out of Quebec, Canada. Their advertisements decreed that the series had been remastered, color-corrected, and contained "all available scenes."

HA!

After snatching up the collection, I was horrified to discover that: 

--The opening and closing  credits of most episodes were cut off, leaving every four eps to play as one long, continuous piece.

--The sound was screwy, recorded at a higher-than-normal speed or something. Even adult male characters sounded akin to Minnie Mouse.

--The picture was muddy and dark.

--Imavision culled eps from cut, syndicated TV versions. Instead of the original running time of 47-ish minutes, a number of eps clocked in at 37-40 minutes. Scenes were cut off right in the middle of dialogue.

--Episodes were out of order.

--Characters who did not even appear in certain seasons were featured in the packaging for those years, anyway.

--There were spelling mistakes on the boxes.

This LHOTP collection proved to be the single worst, badly-produced and butchered DVD  set I have ever encountered.

(Amazingly, reviews on amazon sung the praises of the show, but I daresay they were written and uploaded before buyers actually watched Imavision's version.)

From what I gather the newer boxset, from Lion's Gate, really is remastered and features uncut episodes with good picture quality and decent sound.

Still, I'm hesitant about shelling out another chunk of money on LH without definitive assurance from real people that the Lion's Gate set is professionally produced. (I don't necessarily trust amazon reviews anymore.)

(BTW, the only other DVD set I've found to be ALMOST as bad as the Imavision LH one was the original Beverly Hills 90210. They were terribly butchered and rendered trying to watch the show worthless.)

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

And if this was for Ron, they can't even say they're the least awful.

Overall, we know that RC is the worst, for sure. But by having just three episodes to evaluate, his material must have come off as the least awful among the nominees.

Cringe.

When awards are handed out for being "the least awful among our potential choices," this is what you get.

Thanks, @DRW50!

I am always grateful the the heads up!

Thanks again, @slick jones.

Of all the 8,765,432 Patti Tates on SFT, Loring was by far the most memorable.

Gracias, @slick jones.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The ATWT ending was pure ego. I blame that partly on his running ATWT for a decade and seemingly seeing it as his show. I will never get past how disappointing that finale was.

In all my decades of soap watching, most series finales have left me disappointed, mainly because the cancelled shows had fallen into such disrepair by the time they finally got the axe.

I did think the final scene of SFT, with Jo and Stu, was sweet. The ending of Return to Peyton Place, fading out on Allison and Rod, was effective. But the only soap finale I felt was truly good was Ryan's Hope's, with Jack talking to Mary and then Maeve coming over to thank Jack for being part of her family. RH was never even one of my favorites, but the last episode was one I felt would satisfy the fans and bid a respectful farewell to the Ryan family.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I think that's meant to be Janet Grey (Eve).

Yes.

Personally, I would have cut her out and made room for Charita Bauer.

@slick jones, I always enjoy reading vintage articles.

Thanks for the heads up.

@DRW50 My favorite theme was Ritounelle, but the version of My Guiding Light in the video you linked was lovely.

There's one Christmas episode in which the Bauers were remembering Bert (Johnny gave Ed a blanket she had made many years before), and when My Guiding Light began playing in the background, I got seriously choked up.

I also like Hold on to Love.

Unfortunately, TGL had some real stinker openings in the later years too.

Thanks, @DRW50.

WHEN is this fine show going to get the full-series DVD release it has long deserved?

I'd buy the boxset in a heartbeat.

10 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I love the idea and and I would also ad the Bauers to the mix. Papa Bauer, Bill and Bert with their young boys, as well as Meta and Trudy with their drama. 

I agree that in theory, the idea sounds wonderfully appealing.

Perhaps I am just jaded, however, but I'd be terrified that TPTB would royally screw it up.

Someone who truly understood soaps, and TGL's special qualities in particular, would need to oversee the production.

I'd lean towards Nancy Curlee.

8 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

ICAM

Me too.

Humor is wonderful and refreshing when it arises naturally from character, but becomes painful and forced when it's artificially dumped into soaps via outrageous, absurd plot gimmicks.

2 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Jim was said to be on a cruise to Finland or someplace in northern Europe.  The character died there and was brought back to Bay City for burial.  There was no onscreen funeral.  If I am not mistaken, Alice was the only one of his three children to attend the offscreen funeral.  Liz was still in town are well.  I'm not sure if Marianne Randolph Halloway was still on the canvas.  But the Matthews family was extremely small at that point. And not one former character returned for his service.   Sad that Jim and Hugh Marlowe got no real send off.

By this point, Hugh Marlowe's role had been minimized, and the Matthews family so decimated, that Jim's death wasn't given the attention or importance it would once have merited. Jim and Mary Matthews, Bert Bauer, Mattie and Winston Grimsley, etc., etc., etc...so many matriarchal and patriarchal figures of soaps were never given on-screen services or proper attention when they died.

16 minutes ago, Matt said:

You know these aren't real people, right?

What viewers feel about fictional characters and their scripted situations does not automatically correlate to how they would feel about or judge real-life situations.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Yet there are some fans who eschew (catfights) entirely as an enjoyment.

There are people who both love and despise many forms of content, but there's no denying the number of people who revel in watching their favorite catfights, and enjoy seeing the villains they hate getting their butts whupped.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Personally I have never been a fan of catfights, slaps, etc. with one exception & that is the catfight I consider to be the best ever in any soap. Written by Michele Val Jean, it is the iconic fight in GENERATIONS where the two women almost destroy an apartment.

There you go: the context of that scene made you appreciate it, just like the context of other scenes made different viewers appreciate those scenes and have their own reactions to them.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

There was no straw, no camel, nor its back. It stood alone as an example where a good man physically assaulted his wife & the gentle reader in question summed up by saying she deserved it.

And your Generations reference was an example of two women physically assaulting each other, and you summing it up by saying you were a fan of it.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

In the statement that I questioned, because I wanted to know how you truly felt about it, you said something to the effect of her deserving it, not what you're saying in this paragraph here above.

Complex questions of morality may be a challenge to understand, but one can acknowledge physical violence is wrong, while still acknowledging that if you goad and goad and goad someone far enough, they very well may react in a way you deem unacceptable. Meta Bauer on TGL may have been wrong to shoot her husband Ted White after her son Chuckie died, but viewers understood very well why she was driven to it.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, there is a large body of soap fandom that in fact is entirely opposed to, for just one example, rape victims EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES to fall in love with or marry their rapists

And yet, vocal 'shippers in the audience continue to sing out praises for the most degenerate criminal men of the genre.

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Heaven forbid that I do so!!! Not my intention, not at all. I personally find soaps to be excellent at challenging us about our attitudes & philosophies & enjoy discussions, but I will absolutely cease & desist. The drama needs to stay on the screen. 

I generally have no issue with people expressing their opinions, even when they diametrically oppose my own. 

Yes, it is shocking today to hear someone say, "She deserves it," but it all depends on the circumstances involved. I saw a viral video on Youtube years ago, about an aggressive woman on the subway harassing and harassing and HARASSING a man for the "crime" of wearing a jacket she thought looked stupid. He walked away, she followed him. She took a swing at another passenger filming her atrocious behavior. Finally, she whacked her victim across the back of his head with a pair of heavy shoes she was carrying, drawing blood. He turned around and smacked her, sending her flying backwards. The usual response of "Men should never hit women no matter what" followed, but so did many statements of support for the man's acting in self defense.

Everything depends on the overall context involved.

I was honestly less offended by Russ spanking Rachel after what she did, than I was to see Todd Manning (OLTL) and Luke Spencer (GH) rape women, and ultimately be forgiven for their crimes and turned into romantic leads.

Russ' actions were never condoned.

3 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Come on Contessa. People have fought other people on this board so that you can express your thoughts and your opinions. Leave @vetsoapfan alone, we can't afford to lose such valuable posters by driving them crazy all the time. I am sure you and I are old enough to get what he is saying. No need for drama. 

Donna was expressing the modern ideal that men should never hit women under any circumstance. Elements of society did not always share that opinion, however. Societal attitudes once dictated that men were the heads of the household and needed to be obeyed.

It's curious to me that on social media nowadays...

--Viewers often cheer when female heroines bitch-slap their antagonists. (Think Krystle and Alexis in the lily pond as only one example.)

--Fans also cheer when male heroes open up a fresh can of whup-a$$ and go postal on vexatious men. (Think Jack Reacher and all the scum he serves justice to on a regular basis.)

--I've even seen foot stomping and enthusiastic applauding (or worse, excuses and justifications) when aggressive women assault men, even those who are not DOING anything to the women in question.

I'm not sure why Russ spanking Rachel 50+ years ago would be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I made it clear that I did not think it was justified, just that as a human being, Russ was driven over the edge and temporarily lost control. Was he right? No. Was it understandable in the heat of the moment? That's debatable, but I can testify that many members of the audience, including women,  were just waiting for Rachel to get her comeuppance.

I'm merely pointing out that life and  soaps (back in the day when the writing for daytime TV was layered and adult) are not black and white. If viewers can forgive mobsters, kidnappers, rapists and murderers, and even accept them romancing and marrying their victims...well, you get my drift.

35 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, we know how impossible it is to live with a saint. 

And, please tell me you are making a bad joke about him physically assaulting her? 

No, Russ really did take Rachel over his knee and spank her. I've always wondered if that was written in the original script, or if the director came up with the idea, since Rachel was being such a  monstrous b*tch in the scene. (No, that doesn't justify Russ spanking her.)

Nowadays, of course, we know better. A heroic male lead would never be allowed to hit his wife, but social mores were vastly different in the "olden days".

Even Ricky Ricardo spanked Lucy on I LOVE LUCY.

(People never, ever believe me about this, but here it is in black and white.)

12 hours ago, Xanthe said:

According to the synopses on the AWHP from 1964, it is clear that the order then was defined as Pat, Alice, Russ.

Yes.

It was somewhat annoying that TPTB just threw established history (the siblings' ages) out the window, but when Russ was aged and suddenly became the second oldest Matthews offspring, at least we got the excellent Sam Groom to play the role. His version of the character was wonderful; strong, compassionate, ethical and noble, a moral hero who never came across as a simp or a goody-goody.

Russ had to have been a saint to stand by Rachel for so long, considering all her atrocious behavior. Yes, he did get pushed beyond his limit and spanked her one time, but trust me...she deserved it.

7 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm surprised after all that John put Pat through, but I guess it fits with the character that Pat was never one to complain to her mother about her marital problems.  And, it fits with the times that John's alcoholism was viewed more as a character deficit than a disease.  

I never remember Mary having as much hostility for John as she did for Rachel or Steve, but both Mary and Jim were disappointed and frustrated when John turned to drink and left Pat in 1974.

John had turned to drink and started fighting with Pat that year because of Steve, anyway. Steve had broken the law and bribed Rachel's father to testify against her in Steve's and Rachel's divorce trial. When John found out about Steve's criminal behavior, he felt duty bound to tell the court. Pat wanted him to keep quiet to protect Alice.

In the end, I figured that Mary didn't come down too hard on John during his break up with Pat, because the whole thing was Steve's fault, and Mary wasn't Steve's biggest cheerleader anyway.

@Mona Kane Croft, I agree with your analysis of Mary Matthews, and how the character seriously devolved under Harding Lemay. He even acknowledged in print that he wanted to imbue her with the negative attributes that were more appropriate "for a woman like that."

Under Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, however, Mary was a warm, nurturing, maternal figure.

3 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

@vetsoapfan, what was Mary's relationship with Steve? I've always heard that she didn't like him. Was that true? I've always wondered how she truly felt about Rachel at times too. 

Mary was uneasy about Rachel from early on, regardless of how much Rachel tried to ingratiate herself into the family. It was clear that Rachel was desperate to better her life's circumstances, in terms of money and social status.

After Jim Matthews found out that Steve, and not Russ, had gotten Rachel pregnant, Mary couldn't even control her fury. She became enraged and started shrieking, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" Imagine Alice Horton or Ruth Martin or Jessie Brewer going berserk like that. It was actually rather chilling.

Mary was okay with Steve at the beginning. He was kind to Alice and respectful to the family. But after what he did to Russ and Alice, Mary developed negative feelings about Steve, and her cool reserve lasted a long time.

2 hours ago, j swift said:

I had the same question regarding all the in-laws.

I know Mary did not approve of Rachel for Russ.  But, I don't recall her interactions with either Steve or John Randolph.

Mary became chilly towards Steve after he devastated her children, but she never had a beef with John, IIRC.

6 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

This would be a great idea, one I would expect to happen under the scabs. Under Ron, I wouldn't hold my breath. 

I would do it! DAYS just needs to hire me, LOL!

12 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

The ATWT finale was set to have Helen Wagner be our host for a tour of sorts of the hospital. Unfortunately she died several weeks before the ending was shot. Dr. Bob Hughes was our host instead. It just made me so sad that they were going to honor her that way & it almost happened, but then, didn't. And, also it was astonishing to me that Goutman had that kind of right idea at that point in the game. 

Yes, I know that Wagner did not quite make it to ATWT's very last day, but in my mind, it was close enough. Her absence left a hole in the finale, alas.