vetsoapfan

On 5/30/2024 at 10:17 PM, DRW50 said:

I'm with you there (and fortunately as far as I know Heather doesn't share her opinions on social media).

Martha appears...unmoored.

It's scary how many MAGA supporters are unable to function within the realm of reality.

8 hours ago, depboy said:

That’s James Young, the producer/director of GH from 1963-73.

THANK YOU!

That's what I said, but folks kept insisting that it's Jeffrey Hunter or Charlton Heston.

Other choices included Peter Hansen, Kenny Rogers or Colonel Sanders, ROTFLMAO!

The internet is an endless source of amusement!

14 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Discuss

I say scrap all the stories and start from scratch.

Get rid of a lot of useless characters.

All four of the remaining soaps need to replace their head writers, overhaul their stories and structure, and prune away a large number of useless characters from their casts.

I'd say DAYS and GH even more so than B&B (which needs massive help as well, of course).

This photograph of Emily McLaughlin, from the ninth anniversary of GH,  has been uploaded on Facebook and posters are debating who the man with EM is.

Most people keep insisting that it's Jeffrey Hunter. Apparently, the hairline gives it away.

Forget the fact that the gentleman looks nothing like Hunter whatsoever, but JH died three years before the photo was even taken. 

The next most popular assertion is that it's (get this) Charleton Heston. 

Lord, give me strength.

I love finds like this. Thanks @slick jones!

3 hours ago, janea4old said:

I watched her.  I wrote about it here:   (link to my post)

I don't know whether to cheer about finding an age-appropriate cohort, or commiserate with you about another one of SON's Golden Girls, LOL.

Seriously, I'm sorry to hear that you battled with depression back then. It's such a lonely and misunderstood affliction.

13 hours ago, janea4old said:

I was a teenager when she was playing Meg.  So vivid her portrayal of a woman with mental illness.  I was suffering from depression myself at the time, and Meg was so intensely sad, I had to stop watching for a while because it triggered me.

The actress did her job well.  I just didn't have anyone to talk to in my small town.

I'm so sorry you had to struggle with depression on your own, without anyone to talk to about it.

People often wax poetically about "the good old days," but in reality, things were not always so good. Depression and other forms of emotional issues were sublimated and not talked about. Spousal and child abuse was covered up. Issues with sexual orientation were demonized, leaving many people on the outskirts of society rejected and condemned. MAGAs rage at anything "woke," but it's made society kinder and more enlightened.

Thanks for the tag, @slick jones.

I may be the only one here who's old enough to have watched Scotty's mom on GH. It's a shame about the actress passing away.

3 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

BTW the set seems familiar. Is it the apartment in the Bauer house? Kelly and Morgan stayed there when they got married, right?

Yes, that's right. I loved that set.

1 hour ago, slick jones said:

A wonderful little video that was!  Thanks for the tag!

Thank you for the tag; always appreciated!

@DRW50, that was a fun curio which I had never seen before. Thanks for tagging me.

49 minutes ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

 

I don't think it's fair to equate Pat Falken-Smith and Claire Labine's respective tenures at RH.  Labine created the show and was at least equally responsible for its best material.  I get why Mulgrew's peers—especially Hicks, who was amazing as Faith—didn't like their characters being in Mary's shadow, and Mary got on my nerves many times, but she was central to the creator(s)' vision for the show and KM was never boring.  And her Mary with Michael Levin's Jack was lightning in a bottle.  The less said about the recasts, the better, but that just proves to me Labine's instincts were right: to kill off Mary when KM left. 

I never DID equate PFS' tenure to CL's; I merely pointed out that both these brilliant writers made (IMHO) egregious errors at the show. I wasn't comparing the writers to each other and arguing that their blunders were equal. The reason I found the gorilla and tomb stories so painful was because Labine had created a rich, erudite series, and helped elevate it to the quality of a daily stage play. Pat Falken Smith never produced quality material here. CL introduced us to multi-dimensional, intricately-drawn characters who came across as identifiable, "real" people. PFS gave us mediocre (if not downright forgettable) stock figures.

Watching a theater-like drama devolve into King Kong and Scooby Doo antics doesn't mean that CL's work and PFS' work on RH was comparable. Watching core characters get jettisoned to the back-burner for hair-models and other newbies under Smith was even worse than the fantasy nonsense, because at least CL's fantasy plots centered heavily on core characters.

Unfortunately, whatever precipitated the problems on this show, many people had their hands in messing it up at one time or another. Claire Labine and Paul Mayer, on the other hand, are mainly responsible for giving us the golden years.

19 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Does RH set the record for having the most recasts of original characters in the shortest amount of time?

B/W 75-80 there were 

2 Delias

3 Franks

4 Marys

3 Pats

4 Faiths

That's not counting the later multiple recasts of Siobhan.

The endless recasts really hurt the show, IMHO.

Throughout the soap's run, we had six Franks, four Pats, four Marys, five Siobhans, four Delias, four Faiths, four Joe Novaks...and five (IIRC) Sister Mary Joels.

* including one short-term, fill-in actor for Frank and one for Delia. I count them because they did appear on-screen for plural episodes.

41 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks. I could definitely see that being an ABC decision. One that seemed to be ended quickly.

When I first started the RH repeats on Soapnet, I saw Tolan as Mary, and I was bewildered. Not only was she abrasive, but she could also barely speak. I know Helen Gallagher recommended her, but that isn't enough. She seemed to have better luck as a writer.

I understand your bewilderment. Tolan was loud, abrasive, coarse and noticeably unable to speak coherently at times. Not to be unkind, but while Kate Mulgrew and Mary Carney were lovely, Tolan simply...wasn't. It's hard to fathom a worse recast for the show's young leading lady. 

It's like when ATWT cast Jason Kinkaid as Tom Hughes. Egads! What were they thinking?

I am Tolan's career in writing was more successful for her.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

@vetsoapfan Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I did watch the interview with Helen Gallagher, which was probably a mistake on the show's part as Helen couldn't recall a great deal, but Malcolm was on with her and was a good bridge.

Was it PFS' idea to bring in Robin Mattson as Delia? 

I've read reports that said it was the network's idea, to attract GH viewers who had been fans of Mattson's Heather Webber.

Whoever made the decision, it was a mistake. Mattson was totally wrong for the role of Dee. She was basically playing a foreign, unfamiliar character, not Delia Reid Ryan. Randell Edwards was very good in the part, but in the end, only Ilene Kristen could be the REAL Delia.

I thought Mary Carney (Mary #2) was a good actress and may have succeeded in the role had ABC not pulled the plug on her so quickly. Subsequent replacements (Kathleen Tolan and Nicolette Goulet) were terrible choices, particularly the harsh and abrasive Tolan whose Mary felt like a harridan.

If Randall Edwards and Mary Carney had stayed in the roles, I would have accepted them as Delia and Mary, but I do believe if the original actors are good, the audience prefers them.

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

Perhaps due to the numerous regime changes and the new regimes wanting to put their own spin on the show.

 

Yes. All soaps fall into the same trap at one time or another: new PTB come in, decide to reinvent the wheel, and sweep away the old to make way for the new. When the changes invariably fail miserably, another set of PTB descends upon the soap do the exact same thing.

It's ridiculous, but nobody who actually understands soaps and the audience has worked in the industry for decades.

2 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

As for Meredith: she was played by Nicolette Goulet, the queen of the bad recasts (I don’t think we ever would have heard of her had it not been for her famous father). So Meredith never had much of a chance.

I found her to be quite colorless and unsubstantial as Mary Ryan on RH and Kathy Phillips on SFT. She was far too green ever to replace strong performers like Kate Mulgrew (especially) and Courtney Simon.

Her Meredith didn't do anything for me, either.

It's amazing to consider how many irrelevant and disposable characters TGL foisted on viewers in the 1980s.

On 5/21/2024 at 12:15 PM, Reverend Ruthledge said:

To Leslie Denniston's defense, I think the character of Maeve was supposed to be boring. I don't know why but I remember Reva, upon meeting her, cattily remarked, "She's kind of quiet, isn't she?" It may have been good acting instead of bad acting on  Leslie's part. I think Maeve was supposed to be the anti-Reva. The opposite of loud and over the top. 

That's what I thought, too. And frankly, I much preferred Maeve's quiet and demure tone to Reva's endless loud-mouth, ham-in-the-can behavior.

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

For me the worst of the show is often what reminds me most of the soaps that drove me away in the '90s - Kimberley arriving out of nowhere and eating up the canvas, the endless mob hell brought in around the same time, and the repetition of wicked/insecure Delia scheming against the Coleridges (especially the 80-81 era where she was meant to contrast with good, noble Faith and Roger).

I agree that the show harped on Delia's scheming too much and it became redundant after a while, but at least she was an original, core character who was intertwined with most of the show's characters. Kim was an annoying newbie who was suddenly shoved center stage. I couldn't stand the actress, whose head always seemed to be bobbling around. There are characters whom you love to hate (Rachel Davis, Dorian Lord, etc.) and then there are characters whom you simply loathe and want dispatched from the show as of yesterday. For me, Kin was in that category.

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I didn't mind some of the silly side plots as much. 

(I've never really seen most of the Kirkland era or the PFS era) 

I was so excited to hear that PFS was coming aboard the show. To me, she was one of the best writers DAYS ever had, and she made miracles happen by replacing Douglas Marland so successfully at GH, but her RH felt alien, cold, cynical and detached. I don't think she understood or cared about this soap and its characters much. Curiously, from the moment she took over TGL, I felt she clicked and just "got it." The character moments she gave to Bert and Hillary, Nola, Henry and Vanessa, Mike and Sara, and other Springfieldians were lovely. God only knows why her stint at RH was so awful. I ended up considering her the worst writer in the show's history.

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Regarding RH vs Loving, that's one of those switches I knew about years before I knew most behind the scenes soaps moments of yore due to how often Rosie O'Donnell used to complain about it on her talk show. Rosie's mania could be exhausting at times, but it was nice to see such a genuine soap fan getting a platform. 

Rosie has always grated on my nerves, TBH, but I did appreciate how she championed her favorite series.

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

It does make you wonder how long RH would have lasted. I'd say it probably still wound have ended somewhere in the mid '90s to make room for something else.

Probably, short of divine intervention. But I think it would have lasted longer than it did, had the network not sentenced it to The Timeslot of Death.

Feeling nostalgic about the show, I watched a Locher Room reunion with several members of the cast (Ilene Kristen, Malcom Groome, Ash Adams among others). I tend to avoid Alan Locher because he comes across as so incompetent, clueless and unprepared, but to my delight, he barely interrupted the flow in this group chat. All the actors were talkative and interesting, and didn't need Alan's direction.

Ilene Kristen was hilarious with some of her errors.

The panel was discussing all the actors who had ever played Frank Ryan: Michael Hawkins, Andrew Robinson, Don Scardino (as a temporary stand-in), Geoffrey Pierson, and John Sanderson). Ilene piped in and said that she knew Scardino and he had never been on the show; she was quite sure. Finally, she realized that he may have played Frank during one her breaks away from the series, so that settled that.

Later, she "argued" (in a friendly way) about when RH was cancelled. Everyone else correctly said that it was 1989. Ilene, stressing that she was "pretty sure" of her facts, said the show ran into 1990.

Ash Adams, who played Johnno Ryan, quipped, "MOM! You're out of your mind!"

The respect and affection everyone seemed to have for each other, even after 35 years, was poignant.

4 hours ago, j swift said:

I thought the Agnes Nixon gossip was fun.  One tends to think there's more than one side to that story.  But, I was just pondering that among the cast that were eventually hired by other soaps after RH was cancelled, I could not name anyone who wound up on AMC.  For example, Bernard Barrow went to Loving, Ilene Kristen to OLTL, and Ron Hale to GH.  Can you think of any examples of actors who went from RH to AMC?

Yes, the bitterness over her alleged machinations to save Loving at the expense of RH was interesting, as were the comments about Loving being the worst show on daytime TV and void of acting talent, LOL. True, I thought RH was (overall) better written than Loving, and had many more accomplished actors, but I could understand why ABC would acquiesce to Agnes Nixon. She was, after all...AGNES NIXON, a proven money maker with a long and significant record of success. That being said, I thought RH got the raw end of the deal regarding the time-swapping. Between Loving and RH, Nixon's show was a baffling flop whereas RH had been doing at least moderately well and receiving a lot of critical acclaim and awards. RH deserved to be nurtured and given the best shot to stay on the air.

God only knows why, with Nixon and Marland involved, Loving was such a mess, but that's a discussion for another message thread.

Other posters have pointed out some of the former RH cast who later moved over to AMC.

I will say, that even though some of RH's plots were clunkers, if I compare them to today's four remaining soaps, I'd watch RH again over the pod versions of GH, Y&R, B&B and DAYS in a heartbeat. Even when it was at its worst (Delia and and the Gorilla, The Egyptian Tomb nonsense, the Kirkland Invasion, the annoying youth influx under Pat Falken Smith), there were always at least some moments of quality to be found.

Rewatching The Doctors and Ryan's Hope today, it reminds me how good we had it back then.

58 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm glad that there are more people to talk about the book.  I liked all the parts about the history of the development, and the retelling of the plots.  As well as the humorous backstage stories about filming in the park, the opening sequences, and Louise Shaffer's story about her ill-fated Emmy submissions.  For me, it highlighted the idea that soap productions are like any office scenario, where success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

So true.

I remain saddened and perplexed at how many people failed at Ryan's Hope; particularly creative personnel who (to me) had succeeded so well elsewhere. Pat Falken Smith was good at Where the Heart Is, great at DAYS and GH, and even a wonderful surprise during her short stint at TGL. Claire Labine was also a winner on Where the Heart Is and especially Love of Life. To see writers of their talent screw up an intelligent, erudite, thinking-man's soap like RH was mind-numbing. The Prince Albert and ancient Egypt plots were painfully stupid, and PFS' entire tenure at RH felt forced and broken. Destroying Ryan's Bar proved with that one move alone why everyone involved in the approval of the plot should not have had any control over the soap. They didn't understand it or care the show's history. The destruction of the family bar was as egregious as the mob shoot-out in the Bauer kitchen (!!!) on TGL years later. What an audience-alienating and destructive incident. UGH!

58 minutes ago, j swift said:

 

However, weeks later, my lasting impression is that it badly needed an editor.  I began skipping through parts where every time they would introduce a new actor, the book would go through the litany of interviews of the friendly (or occasionally unfriendly), recollections of the rest of the cast.  It got to the point where I could accurately predict who Michael Levin would like or dislike, so I didn't need confirmation every time.

I agree, the book needed some judicious pruning. I am grateful for all the work which went into it, and I was happy to read the candid stories and anecdotes, but parts of the book could have been trimmed here and there, particularly towards the end.

(I did enjoy the potshot Gordon Thompson took at Paul Rauch; I'm glad it was included in the final draft, LOL!) 

1 hour ago, Sapounopera said:

At least Amanda was gone for fifteen years lol. Faith showed up with a brand personality after... a month?
BTW I will never forget GL for the Amanda madness.

There are so many bone-headed moves for which I will never forgive TIIC at TGL. I was significantly more attached to it than I was to RH, so the decimation of TGL angered me a lot more. At least RH went out with a bang, on a high note.

15 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I have a really hard time taking Faith seriously after the original actress left the role.

The third actress has just showed up. She is happy and confident. She is cooking cheese and bacon in the same house her father was killed and she was attacked by her kidnapper while blind. She left  the show in a tragic way. A few months ago. 

This is ten times worse than the Amanda Spaulding mess on GL. 

Many egregious mistakes were made on RH throughout the years.

I've just finished reading Tom Lisanti's Oral History of Ryan's Hope book, and it is amazing to read about all the crap that went down behind the scenes.

I had always assumed that the most idiotic story and character decisions were foisted on the show by the network, but commentary from those who were there at the time make it clear that even great scribes like Claire Labine and Pat Falken Smith stumbled badly on RH, as well.

Not to be contrary, but could anything BE worse than the Amanda Spaulding garbage on TGL?

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Freeze and watch frame-by-frame and I bet every one has Katie.

The fact that we didn't see Penny Cunningham or Ellen Stewart when Nancy Hughes passed away, but the focus centered so much on Katie () cemented my hatred for that character (and Goutman).

On 5/19/2024 at 2:25 PM, DRW50 said:

Tom was just a terrible, bizarre character who never should have lasted as long as he did, although he was OK in his last few months. My main memory of him is when he was jogging in green short-shorts.

It was his best performance!

BTW, I am reading the Oral History book by Tom Lisanti, and enjoying it thoroughly.

I thought RH was excellent in its early years and in its final one (IMHO, it came to an end much better than most other soaps did), but a lot of its middle era was a mess.

Now that I am reading about how incompetent, foolish and combative so many of TPTB were at the time, I am not surprised!

The egregious and destructive mistakes heaped on the show by Claire Labine and Pat Falken Smith boggle the mind.

13 hours ago, SteelCity said:

I'm not sure what I was expecting but, I wouldn't call that a fight.

For the time, that was a huge deal. The soaps had not yet started to go overboard with the cartoonish, campy slap fests and lily-pond dunks that came later. Soap mags printed several letter from viewers/readers who said how shocked they were that "good" Alice went after Rachel physically (lunging at her and throwing copper pots).

14 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I do remember him fumbling his lines quite often although it wasn't so much him fumbling his lines as him always pausing too long before delivering his lines. I've noticed other actors doing this. Eileen Fulton did it. So did Helen Wagner. You can tell the pause is them trying to remember the lines. He would mix things up too from time to time but he was good at saving it. As was Fulton. I would imagine they edited out the big fumbles. I can't imagine how any of them memorize all those lines. I, personally, couldn't do it. 

Maybe I was subconsciously comparing Granger's line deliveries on ATWT to OLTL, where he stumbled and "went up" so often (like Hugh Marlow in the later years on AW). His scenes on ATWT were significantly less marred by his forgetting the dialogue.

Another actress who would get confused, mangle up dialogue, and then save herself was Joan Bennet on Dark Shadows.

I know performers have often say that memorization is like a muscle, which strengthens over time, but I still marvel at performers' ability to retain pages and pages of dialogue, particularly when they appear on three, four, or five episodes a week. I could not do it, either, which is why I tend to be forgiving of soap actors who stumble. I figure, I know people in real life who stammer and take pauses while speaking, so in a sense, mangled speech is not unbelievable.