Joseph

Doesn't anyone around have anything of this show really?????????

NOT A THING? 

God I think I might be crazy to make a plea like that but I must try

On 7/22/2021 at 1:40 AM, vetsoapfan said:

William J. Bell and Agnes Nixon (to name just two writers) knew how to weave socially-relevant material into naturalistic dialogue. Anne Howard Bailey did not. She was later given the headwriting duties of a primetime soap opera on CBS, called Beacon Hill, fashioned after Upstairs, Downstairs. The ratings for the premiere were stellar, but AHB's script was painfully bad and trite, and the ratings immediately plummeted. She was quickly replaced, and the new scribes were excellent, but...like with HTSAM, it was too late. Once burned, twice shy, as they say.

Pity I'd love to see Beacon Hill sounded very good and a Period soap sounds like a nice change! Pity that the eponymous web soap from 2013 wasn't like that I could think of hundreds of possibilities 

On 7/22/2021 at 3:50 AM, Paul Raven said:

I wonder if the attitudes and dialogue were a bit too confronting for some of the women viewers in 1974?

Housewives in traditional marriages may not have liked their view of the world challenged...

Probably not even in the late 1970's the storyline of Nancy Hughes getting into work wasn't well received

17 hours ago, j swift said:

I would suggest that Amandas are a question of taste and everyone has a preference.  Sandy Ferguson made the role popular and played a good romantic heroine.  Her Amanda was well-bred, independent, and (in my opinion) was kind of like what Iris would have been like if Mac paid more attention to her as a child.  I am in the minority that I enjoyed Laura Moss (another redheaded recast like the aforementioned ill-fated Nina).  Her portrayal was nothing special, and the plot of her trying to seduce/betray Carl seemed out of character, but her scenes with Rachel during Victoria Wyndham's anniversary episode made me sympathetic to her as an actress.  Christine Tucci was an odd choice of casting.  She looked like Rachel's daughter, given her dark wavy locks, but her Amanda lacked agency and was stuck playing second fiddle to Vicky.  Amanda was a wealthy, self confident woman, and writing her as a third wheel in a triangle did nothing for the character.  Finally, when Sandy returned, and had to play out the Lumina story, Amanda became a farce.  For years, the image of Amanda in her debutante dress was shown in the opening sequence and now to see Amanda looking older in a hoop skirt and bun was not a good look.

 

As for Ava's, you have to have a memory better than mine to remember Patty Lotz (Ava #1).  After that it is a toss up between the late Roya Megnot and Lisa Peluso.  Roya played young Ava with an urban verve and gave her a balance which kept her from being a true villain who stole her cousin's baby and tried to ruin Jack's marriage.  On the other hand Lisa's southern romantic portrayal of Ava gave routing value for her pairing with Alex.  The character changed so much with the recasting that it more a question of which plot you preferred versus which actress, and I prefer the Clay/Alex story.  I faded out after that so the other plots with Paul and Carly are not as relevant to me.

Wow you got me Curious I'm going to search around thanks

14 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

Patty Lotz even mentioned in the "Ladies of Loving" chat from last year that Ava was originally supposed to be like Jennifer Beals' character from Flashdance. That character was a blue collar girl who worked as a welder by day. I forget what Ava originally was, but no way could I see Lisa Peluso's version of the character doing that.

Me neither but I love Lisa's Ava

15 hours ago, Frank2803 said:

That would have been awesome 

 

I know unhappily her blacklisting turned that impossible she was great at playing powerful, manipulative women

Forget it

By The way does anyone know who was the best:

NIna in AMC

Amanda in AW

Ava in Loving

19 minutes ago, Brent said:

I haven't forgotten about it, but so far, haven't been able to find anyone capable of assisting. I have gone part of the way in having the audio cassette transferred to a CD, but that's still where things stand at the moment. Am reaching out to others I know for advice on this. Best, 

 

BC

Thanks for your efforts sir I'd like to tell I really appreciate it and hope your successful soon, good luck and my best wishes for you

17 hours ago, Frank2803 said:

I remember Michael Zaslow saying that TPTB wanted to recast him as Alan Spaulding for his initial return 

The idea was nixed, but it would have been interesting to see his take on the role 

I also heard Brenda Dickson was considered to play Dorian Lord when Robin left the role 

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Bill Bell created his own JR Ewing with Victor Newman, billionaire businessman that owns and lives on a horse ranch and has a long-suffering younger wife. Y&R had wealthy businessmen before Victor (Phillip Chancellor II and Lance Prentiss) and Wisconsin has horse ranches, but Victor's introduction in February 1980 overlapped with Dallas at the height of it's popularity. In his early storylines, Victor was even dressed more in jeans, button down shirts, vests, cowboy hats than he was in suits.

In 1991, B&B introduced Texas oil millionaire Blake Hayes, former husband of Dr. Taylor Hayes. Bill Bell was a decade late to the party there.

You said it, that was Victor I thought about and lost

1 hour ago, Frank2803 said:

Spot on about Victor

I never noticed the JR similarities because Victor became his own thing 

I always thought Terry Lester’s Jack Abbot had shades of JR 

You're right I thought so too but I wasn't sure

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

1970s Y&R had the Chancellors and the Prentisses. Both pre-dated Dallas.

And the Brooks right?

9 hours ago, Pine Charles said:

Daisy/Monique was introduced on AMC  in 1980, correct??

Anyway, she wasn’t really a bitch, was she??

Her backstory does have shades of Alexis, though (or visa versa).

Erica, while certainly a bitch, was more lighthearted than Alexis.

 

Which soaps had wealthy families from the very start, predating the prime-time soaps of DALLAS and DYNASTY??

I can think of the Agnes Nixon soaps, with the Tyler Family (matriarch: Phoebe English Tyler, AMC) and the Lord Family (patriarch: Victor Lord, OLTL).

I don’t believe GH got one until the Quatermaine Family in the late ‘70s.

Yes Daisy was a nice woman, she was bitchy only to Palmer but he deserved she always wanted the best for her daughter Nina

You're right and Another World got the Matthews Family, with the Rich and the poor branches from the very beginning in 1964, GH only got their riches after the quatermaines got their start yes

14 hours ago, Pine Charles said:

I think they were referring to any temporary replacement actresses to Lucci as Erica (if Susan had gotten ill, ect.).

11 hours ago, allmc2008 said:

Oh, Okay.

That's Right or like when she made those TV Movies or When she was on Dallas, sometimes I think Lucci is a Vampire never got tired or sick or aged 

Poor Amelia Heinle nobody likes her (me neither there's been a while since I stopped caring for Vicky) but I guess it's with the writers too she came into the role and Vicky stopped being a Thunderstorm to be a simple Rain, I like her with Billy but then it was long ago.

By the way i think Lara Parker would have been a Nice Iris Wheeler, she could play menacing vulnerable and crazy very well, or Alice for a sweet change, and funny enough I think that Diana Millay MIGHT have been a good Sue Ellen Ewing, when Laura the Phoenix was introduced as an struggling ex alcoholic she was pretty believable in the role (but that doesn't mean I don't love Linda Gray in the role).

Happy I inspired someone, I guess David Selby's character in Falcon Crest was the JR kind, as Well as Adam in Dynasty I think I thought of someone else but can't recall right now

On 9/3/2021 at 5:59 PM, applcin said:

I think there are so many variables and questions, some of which others here (esp. DD) have mentioned, when it comes to the idea of reboots that it's hard for me to blanketly say yay or nay. It would depend largely on which soap, who's the target audience, how/where/when would they be shown, are they trying to replicate the original, continue with the "next generation" or telling new stories with new actors in old roles?

The 1991 Dark Shadows reboot was actually my first experience ever with DS, and, I suspect, of quite a few younger people like myself back then who hadn't had access to the original. Here was a reboot of a daily daytime soap turned into a weekly nighttime one. The characters and storylines were recreated, although the stories were vastly streamlined to fit the weekly model. Plus, there was also the need to adapt certain elements from the 60s to the 90s, or ditch them altogether. It had a successful start and I think of the show as a "what might have been" situation as it seemed more that outside circumstances (the Gulf War, preemptions, etc.) killed it rather than lack of interest. I believe it could have been a really good series with multiple seasons. I think another reboot could also work again today if the right elements are there to make it appealing to enough people.

I think another "niche" type soap like The Edge of Night could have a chance as well and could be written as a weekly, particularly if they maintain the theme of mystery and film-noir type storylines. At this point, it's been out of sight (save for any interested people who might want to look for it online) for so long that it could be reimagined. With the majority of the mainstream daytime soaps, though, I think they'd have to be so changed, adapted, refocused, etc., that they might only have the show name or some character names in common and not much else...which then begs questions like who are they doing it for and why not just create a new product? The PP reboots of AMC and OLTL failed so miserably, I believe, because a) they desired a demo that wasn't interested in "Grandma's story"; b) they were essentially cut off from that Grandma audience that didn't follow them online or didn't have the tech savvy to do so; and c) whether by actor/character glaring absences, storylines, less censorship and so on, these were not the same shows people had loved. The daytime soaps that are still on, and those that went before them, have that loyal audience that sees them every day, knows when to watch, record, stream, etc. But if one attempts to adapt them to a more modern schedule, put them on cable, show them with far less frequency and maybe even a year or more between seasons, they would die quick deaths, I think.

Given how long tv and film have been around, it's pretty hard nowadays to find something that isn't either a remake or a derivative of something else. There's a lot of re-purposing the old things to make them appealing to younger generations. Understandable in one way and kind of sad in another. Something that I appreciated about growing up in the 70s was that, while there were a lot less tv stations, those stations were broader in their content. On one channel you could see modern shows, classic shows (and films), documentaries, music videos (old and new)...we were exposed to a wider variety of content and history because it was there in front of us and there weren't as many options. Nowadays, you have to search harder for a particular type of show or genre amidst the morass, meaning you have to already have either some awareness of it or interest in the genre. Reboots may or may not stand alone on their merits--with people either remaining unaware or unexposed to the original-- or they may spark an interest in what came before. I think most reboots now would fall into the former situation--created mainly for a new audience who would see it as a brand new "world"--and not really for the classic viewer who wants to revisit something familiar.

 

 

I guess you're right, funny, I think a Dark Shadows Reboot would work right now too, as long as they don't turn it into a Vampire diaries sort of show, I want they keeping the storytelling before Barnabas, Laura, the Widows ghosts then Barnie, would be nice

Hey that must've been fun, I've been long curious about Stella Dallas, The Romance of Helen Trent, Painted Dreams, etc, must have been a real piece of work keep the audiences just with sound

6 hours ago, Chris B said:

Both of those shows have been discussed in the Primetime Soaps thread.

So I guess this topic is pretty useless?

15 hours ago, Skin said:

You are sort of making my point, that awful thing happened to Bianca, not Erica and that was because they couldn't have anything horrible happen to Erica, so they had to make her daughters suffer to move the show forward. Nothing bad could really happen to Erica after a certain point. 

Erica's Vegas show girl storyline was a disaster but it was done because they couldn't really show her spiraling out in a real way because Erica was for many members in the audience severe wish fulfillment. 

Yeah I guess you're right I mean Erica was almost raped by the guy who raped Bianca, and later discovers that it was her low life of a father who offered her for sex with the guy who raped her but yes directly nothing REALLY BAD happened to her after the late 1990's not that it means she was less of a great anti heroine but while they character well written her storylines got more and more boring or foolish 

By the way I hated when they reversed her abortion was such a stupid idea 

On 9/4/2021 at 5:08 PM, Skin said:

I think I've said this before, and I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion and that Erica can do no wrong in some viewers eyes but I remember watching her and a sort of transition happening from the late 90's to the early 00's, where it felt like Erica became sort of untouchable and wish fulfillment for the audiences, and a sort of plastic-y sense of writing appeared around her that insolated and bubbled her from anything truly bad happening to her. As such it felt trying to watch scenes with her in it, because well you knew she was always going to win, and everyone else was just poor, ugly and too stupid to deal with the great Erica Kane. She became unrealistic and stories suffered for having her in them because no one could really go against her meaningfully, and have that have consequences and meaning. I get the sense that's why the show started transitioning focus to others like Kendell, Bianca and Greenlee because they had real stakes associated with them. 

The last real storyline it felt like Erica had was the Betty Ford clinic one, and maybe the original Babyswitch in 1997, with Maria and Dimitri. But even in those storylines it felt like they needed to end them prematurely because they didn't want to risk Erica 'looking bad' by the audience, so that's when they ended up with Bianca's anorexia storyline, which was largely structured to get Erica out of prison on sympathetic release. 

This would go on for years with her love triangles, her marriages, and her affairs being written but they were sort of useless because nothing ever happened. They just sort of parked her with Jackson, and even if the broke up, it was clear they were going to get back together with each other eventually. She just regressed as a character, and didn't have much meaning.

No disrespect to those that love her though, I am sure at the height of her powers in the 70's and 80's she was a powerhouse figure. But to me the 2000's greatly damaged her legacy, and I tend to think of the two Agnes Nixon shows from 2000 - 2011 OLTL did a better job by Viki than AMC did by Erica.   

14 hours ago, Pine Charles said:

1994 was an interesting year for Erica - after she had been found ‘Not Guilty’ for the “attempted murder” of Dimitri (due to temporary insanity), she has to “start over” and pick up the pieces of her life.

Erica decides to return to modeling, since she had subsequently lost Enchantment,  but the aging Erica is met with a lukewarm response - with the young models saying, “Erica, WHO??.”

The whole thing had a Sunset Blvd. vibe - and was quite interesting to see Erica in this position.

There’s a funny scene where Erica locks an Eastern European model in a broom closet in New York, a la I Love Lucy, so the model who dissed her won’t get the gig.

What’s even funnier, though, is when her gal pal, Opal, feels sorry for her, so she offers Erica the opportunity to be spokesperson for her and Palmer’s chain of fried chicken fast food restaurants.

Erica, of course, respectively declines.

I believe this is around the time Jackson and Erica sleep together in NYC, while he was married to Laurel.

Sounds nice but I never got to see this storyline eve if it sounded very interesting, by the way was around that time too that Tara Martin came back to town did she and Erica get any confrontations?

Now let's see the Rivals, the original was Tara the goodye girl, Brooke was probably the most Famous, I know she catfighted with Ceara and Maria Santos too, who else?

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

All of these shows have been discussed in their own thread or the Primetime Soaps thread...

Not ALL of them and there's always more by the way wasn't you who once mentioned Behind the Screen? Did it get a topic? Or Swans Crossing for that matter and etc

8 hours ago, Skin said:

I think I've said this before, and I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion and that Erica can do no wrong in some viewers eyes but I remember watching her and a sort of transition happening from the late 90's to the early 00's, where it felt like Erica became sort of untouchable and wish fulfillment for the audiences, and a sort of plastic-y sense of writing appeared around her that insolated and bubbled her from anything truly bad happening to her. As such it felt trying to watch scenes with her in it, because well you knew she was always going to win, and everyone else was just poor, ugly and too stupid to deal with the great Erica Kane. She became unrealistic and stories suffered for having her in them because no one could really go against her meaningfully, and have that have consequences and meaning. I get the sense that's why the show started transitioning focus to others like Kendell, Bianca and Greenlee because they had real stakes associated with them. 

The last real storyline it felt like Erica had was the Betty Ford clinic one, and maybe the original Babyswitch in 1997, with Maria and Dimitri. But even in those storylines it felt like they needed to end them prematurely because they didn't want to risk Erica 'looking bad' by the audience, so that's when they ended up with Bianca's anorexia storyline, which was largely structured to get Erica out of prison on sympathetic release. 

This would go on for years with her love triangles, her marriages, and her affairs being written but they were sort of useless because nothing ever happened. They just sort of parked her with Jackson, and even if the broke up, it was clear they were going to get back together with each other eventually. She just regressed as a character, and didn't have much meaning.

No disrespect to those that love her though, I am sure at the height of her powers in the 70's and 80's she was a powerhouse figure. But to me the 2000's greatly damaged her legacy, and I tend to think of the two Agnes Nixon shows from 2000 - 2011 OLTL did a better job by Viki than AMC did by Erica.   

I get your point but that bubble popped a few times like in the early 2000's when Bianca Was Raped and got pregnant by this that affected Erica deeply as she herself experienced a similar situation as well as when she developed a drinking problem and needed an intervention 

Many Soaps like Dynasty or Dallas ended in Cliffhangers here's a Topic to let the imagination run and give an idea how it should have ended

A Topic Dedicated to tribute the soaps that died way too young feel free to express your opinions.

EXAMPLES:

The Survivors (1969)

Bright Promise (1969-72)

The Best of Everything (1970)

Return to Peyton Place (1972-74)

How To Survive a Marriage (1974)

Executive Suite (1976)

Behind The Screen (1981)

King's Crossing (1982)

Bare Essence (1982)

The Yellow Rose (1983)

Paper Dolls (1984)

Berrenger's (1985)

Models Inc. (1994)

The Monroes (1995)

ETC....

What about it, a fabulous Writer and a Character who she planned for so long she couldn't help trying to make her Perfect and it was Erica Kane played by Susan Lucci for an outstanding 41 year tenure, and wrote by the Brilliant Agnes Nixon, so Calling out all fans let's discuss her I'm myself too young to have caught most of the years of AMC but YouTube is a blessing for such matters, Let's discuss her, Her Clones by Nixon and of Course her rivals

22 hours ago, SFK said:

Joan is Alexis, Alexis is Joan. Ttrying to recreate such a character is an impossible predicament. I watch the new Dynasty mostly out of brand loyalty/nostalgia/curiosity about its faithfulness to the original. I’m not passionate about the show, but I do watch. Nicolette worked just fine because she brought her own ‘80s primetime soap pedigree to the show which satisfied a certain nostalgia factor, while she in no way attempted to channel Joan, she was uniquely Nicolette. All of the crazy plastic surgery recasting mess just pushed me further and further away from my acceptance of this not-Alexis-but-Alexis and when I watch now I’m just constantly reminded of how I’m not watching Joan. This Alexis finally got this show’s version of her iconic penthouse the other episode and I couldn’t even get excited about that.

I think I would have preferred a prequel series with an actress playing a twentysomething young mother version of Joan’s Alexis. I would have loved to see Siân Phillips as Mrs. Morell.

Most ones I mentioned are the cast choices considered before Joan got the role the only ones who were my idea were Lana and Dorothy

By the way it's funny you mentioned Siân Phillips, if I'm not mistaken it was her portrayal of bitchy badass Matriarch Livia in I, Claudius (1976) that helped inspire Alexis

I would have liked that Lara Parker got Any Important role in a Soap after DS ended it's a shame she didn't get nothing but guest roles in series after that she got so much to offer I remember watching her in an episode of Police Woman and Loving it