Spoon

On 11/12/2021 at 3:57 PM, Fevuh said:

I'll duck before I name two.  I'm thinking characters you have that you can do without.  Adam, Y&R and Christine/Cricket Y&R.  I dropped watching Y&R altogether over the most recent Adam - aside from the fact that nothing was happening on Y&R, the little of what WAS happening was all things Adam.  For a year+ they had him eat the show.  Cricket/Christine I've never understood quickly after about 2 or 3 years into the character for her.  Strangely they did make the leap to ditch Paul, which I don't think they had to do - they didn't have to make him an unbearable crotchety old man...but because they DID, I didn't miss his backburner status.  

I do have to disagree when characters like Lillian (GL) are named.  There are characters that make a show feel like home, people in a town that are there, and she's one to me.  She might have had a couple of storylines and then became a sounding board, but every show has to have that.  If they're going to be a good show. 

If you're not careful you'll lose characters like Lisa (World Turns), Nancy (World Turns), Ross (GL), Blake (GL), and Maureen (GL) when they had "hot" stories at once, but then start to filter toward the background.  I think you have to keep people like that to make a show real and ground it.  Toss them a bone of a storyline every 7 to 10 years but you have to keep them.  I don't think this is about those types of characters.  And we know what a mess occurred when they ditched Maureen on GL.  

I agree with those that posted "Cane" on Y&R and I would also have to say Devon.  I don't get either of those two.  Devon has always been a dishrag to me, kind of a character I just don't care about or get the purpose of.  Meanwhile they had a great in Hilary ---- so they killed her off.  LOL.  Then I guess figured out what a disaster of a mistake they made so brought her back as someone else.  

GL had structural problems, they couldve survived Maureen if they had a better foundation which they didnt. That one story was captivating and didn't sink GL, if anything it was the lack of follow through and planning.

13 hours ago, BingCherry said:

David Canary, as both Adam and Stuart

.You forgot Steven Frame?

Based on what I've seen lately.

GH- B Watched some episodes on Hulu and it seemed pretty solid. The Nina/Sonny post-amnesia stuff is classic soap.

Days- C+ Lackluster execution overall.

Y/R- D- seems like nothing ever happens under JG.

B/B- F. Second verse, same as the first: TRASH.

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I'd have to nominate Phyllis on Y&R. She came on as a spoiler to Cricket and Danny and tried to pass off another man's child as Danny's.

She was responsible for all sorts of mayhem and it was expected that she'd be punished and be written off like Mari Jo and Lisa Mansfield.

But she came back and got her hooks into an Abbott and a Newman and is still hanging around today.

Stafford has left twice and they still keep welcoming her back.

Agreed. Same thing with Michael Baldwin.  Kevin being another one, if they didn't link him with Michael he gave Lilly VD, trying to kill Colleen and torching Gina's. Almost twenty years later and he's still around.

Henry on ATWT. What was initially a villain-underling dayplayer-type role to Katie was fleshed out, lasted about a decade and even was made a Stenbeck.

Lillian on GL, with the 90s when Beth wasn't there. She had the affair with Ed to keep her relevant initially, then stayed around as a "talk-to" for Alex. Also, after Beth "died" in the 80s she could've easily have faded away like Bea Reardon did around the same time frame.

Edge of Night had a cult storyline ala Jim Jones but had to change it to a serial killer. 

Also I think GH had an action  plot that had to be nixed due to 9/11.

On 11/3/2021 at 8:35 PM, Soaplovers said:

Guiding Light:

While I liked the early 90s of GL, I wouldn't call it a golden age.  It was well done, but lacked spirit.  And I found that Alexandra, Nadine, Holly, and Maureen were written more to certain tropes (Alexandra = woman scorned, Nadine = desperate woman, Holly = super neurotic, and Maureen = judgemental).

When Long was there, all of these women had different facets that got sidelined (Alexandra = warm, Nadine = sly, Holly = confident, and Maureen = human and funny).

I just think early 90s GL had good points, but no warmth or a sense of fun.

This. There was something lacking in the early 90s, I could never place my finger on it but you hit the nail on the head. The exodus of numerous 80s mainstays between 1989 and 1991 really signalled the end of an era.

Isn't Devil Marlena giving better advice than Non-Devil Marlena? Honesty is always the best policy after all.

On 11/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, AbcNbc247 said:

That still makes me cringe 

Julie is so annoying tho, I wish she'd go away.

The first half of the Clone Saga with Joie Lenz as Cleva were fun but turned into just another evil doppelganger plot. Yawn.

Personally I found Maureen bland, they needed an older lady as matriarch like a Meta or Trudy or heck even Grandma Santos. So many times TPTB are afraid to kill important characters so its a rare event when it happens.  

Y/R Bringing back Phillip Chancellor III from the dead. Convoluted plot and they did nothing with him.

Also making Jill/Katherine mother/daughter had some payoff but was so contrived, the Jill/Lauren retcon was just random with even less payoff. 

20 minutes ago, Frank2803 said:

Todd Manning's redemption from a black hat villain to more of a gray villain surprisingly worked well. It was a stroke of genius making Viki his sister.

Scott Bryce's Craig should be the blueprint into turning a character from a villain to a hero 

..and that was flushed down the toilet with Ben War...I mean Hunt Block in the role.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Erica too.  And Brenda on GH maybe isn’t  the vixen she was when she first arrived, but she still had an edge that say Liz no longer had.

It’s laughably bad.  I don’t care how hot he is, the lengths of redeeming him are ridiculous.

I'm all for redeeming characters but his villainous past is just supposed to be forgiven, even Luke Spencer was haunted by his misdeeds.  Ben  would've worked better as a "grey" character who is haunted by his evil deeds and is on a quest for redemption, but these Salemites just forgave him overnight. 

The Deimos character had potential. They were too short-sighted to off him so quickly. Especially with all the Kiriakis drama and John Anniston isn't going to be around forever, his health hasn't seemed great for awhile now.

Paul wasn't very interesting as a good guy. RH gave Paul the edge that the son of Barbara and James should have.

6 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

Maybe they just should have brought RH on as a new character.

The previous two Pauls weren't on very long, RH outlasted both of their runs.

I might've appreciated "boring good guy" Paul better if I grew up with ATWT but I didn't pick up the show until 1990.

On 10/15/2021 at 6:55 PM, wonderwoman1951 said:

just took a look on amazon, where the entire series can be had for less than $100 — not as awful as i would have expected.

in addition to dana delany, who was on ‘world turns in the early ‘80s, i  remembered another soap connection:

in a memorable episodes from the last season, ‘small step,’ finn carter (sierra from ‘world turns) plays a nurse who helps boonie heal after he’s lost his leg.

Dana Delaney showed great promise on Love of Life shortly before it was cancelled. Too bad the show didn't last a couple years more.

On 10/13/2021 at 11:44 AM, Frank2803 said:

The fact that Alan-Michael and Lucy came about because TPTB didn't have the backbone to make Alan-Michael and Gillie Grant a couple bothered me more than the actual couple of AM and Lucy.

Speaking of Alan-Michael I always thought he was Joey Buchanan status where they found a talented actor, but struggled with story and recast after the actor vacated the role.

 

I didn't know the BTS stuff until the late 90s with the Internet. I assumed AM would've had another fling with Harley if she was still around thus AM and Lucy.  

Gilly and Hamp were a good couple but I could see Gilly with Hamp's best friend (fake)Billy or with Alan right after he returned. Maybe a Gilly/AM/Alan triangle leading to AM and Lucy. 

RH had some strong material with the Lucy/Brent storyline.

10 hours ago, Kane said:

 

Guiding Light - I loved Alan-Michael and Lucy together and I liked Lucy as a character.

ITA, they had super-couple chemistry. The 3rd AM not so much, but he was serviceable I guess. 

Also, I enjoyed Nola's presence during the Mid-90s. So much, I could tolerate her chasing Buzz since I never really liked Jenna.

On 10/3/2021 at 9:40 PM, Marissa Gallant said:

I'll generic this up:

SB CC and Sophia. CC after Jed Allan. All things Mason. 1986 and 1987. Early episodes, Augusta is very fun especially after Lionel gets back.

AW- Cass and Kathleen, Cass and Frankie, Felicia is an alcoholic, and Vince and Mary. And basically everything anything Felicia. Sharlene and John Hudson 

DOOL- Jack and Jen, Bo is Victors son, Vivian Allemagne puts Carly in a coffin (I know. Believe me I know. But I adore Louise Sorel)

ITA, about Cass and Kathleen with Felicia, the Hudsons and Loves. 85-87. That whole era was both fun and good drama.

GL. Quint and Nola adventuring, spoiled brat Vanessa, The Eli Simms saga, The four Musketeers, early Josh and Reva. Basically Doug Marland thru the first Pam Long era.

ATWT. Barbara's descent into madness with the boat explosion and reuniting with James, Hunt Block breathing new life into Craig. Katie, Simon and Henry gave me heavy Cass, Kathleen, Felicia, Wallingford vibes for sure. Was also a fan of Jake/Molly.

ATWT:

I didn't mind Noelle Beck as Lilly.  I would've rather they just write the character off as the character was getting stale at that point.

If they weren't going to use Eileen Fulton then they should've had the guts to writer her off like Ellen Stewart. Goutman tried to have it both ways. Lisa was such an afterthought in the finale and the lead-up to it.

On 10/1/2021 at 4:25 PM, Bill Bauer said:

 

Oh, I never said I liked RVF. I actually didn't like him at all. I just preferred him over Peter Simon. That's not saying much though. 

What was so bad about RVF? Legit question as I was young, he seems fine in the few clips on YT, he seemed better at displaying emotion than Peter Simon.  He had better chemistry with Ellen Dolan than Peter Simon. I would give PS the edge just because he was on screen with Charita Bauer and Don Stewart.

Leads me to another UO.. I liked Ellen Dolan as Maureen as I could connect her mentally to the first bunch of Reardons. Similar to Peter Simon's Ed and the gone Bauers. A reminder of the past I suppose.

19 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

I liked Richard Van Vleet, but he was also the first Ed I ever saw. I like him less now that I’ve heard Susan Pratt’s stories about what he was like on set (“I used to be a big deal on All My Children!”)

As for Robert Gentry: I never saw him during his original run, but he seemed like a complete miscast upon his return. I’m guessing too much time had passed (something like 30 years) since he originally played the role, and the character had changed.

That's how I feel about Peter Simon, he was my first Ed. When I started reading forums people would rave about "70s Ed" Mart Hulswit, later saw clips with him, Mike and Roger and I could see the warmth and energy that PS's Ed lacked by comparison.

That leads me to another unpopular opinion...Richard van Fleet wasn't a bad Ed at all. He shared more qualities with Mart Hulswit than Peter Simon ever did.  RVF running around Beiruit especially gave me MH vibes.

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

I love DAM but..someone who was trying to kill a child....and while yes, he did try to kill Reva...depending on who you talk to that should have gotten him a medal...it was hard.  I know they kind of explained it as when he fell it knocked whatever tumor was in his head loose so he was more normal but...here is something non popular...I HATED Scott Holmes as Tom..he was stodgy, cranky and stiff.  I think DAM would have been a great recast..yes, it would have been another de-aging of Tom but he would have made Tom fun, and sexy again.

 

HA..they backed off of that as the "internet" found out and went nuts...only a core group of, uh, women of a certain age..loved Cole and it came out when word got out..they just wanted to pretend everyone loved him so they backed off. They were also going to make Ashley Rick's daughter when he donated sperm but wisely canned that idea. What I think they should have done and can't believe they didn't, is make a daughter of Rick/Annie be alive..(didnt they say Annie miscarried Rick's kid) they LOVED pumping the Annie well, can you see a teenage version of Annie, who comes on acting all sweet, but has an agenda, coming in and being a Bauer too.."Michele, did anyone ever tell you that your annoying???"

Rick could've easily have had a kid with Abby as she left town right after their split. I hated Ashley but at least making her a Bauer would give her a point as opposed to local rando with no strong ties to canvas.

On 9/28/2021 at 1:56 PM, Frank2803 said:

Guiding Light's Edmund never worked for me as a supervillain 

I think making Phillip Spaulding into the supervillain of the show was interesting but it was ultimately a dud 

It would've worked better of it wasn't just a setup for a "whodunnit."  The lead up was gold, the year plus aftermath with many developments happening off-screen was just a big no. Like them revealing Phillip was still alive OFFSCREEN! If the character is not going to be onscreen, let them remain dead until an onscreen Friday cliffhanger moment!

I enjoyed the Cassie/Edmund pairing and seeing Edmund evolve into a more layered character.

They should've gone full steam ahead with the Leah Bauer SOARSing. Was it ridiculous?  Yes, but so was Harley's daughter being a teenager TWICE! TPTB toyed with the idea of making Jeffrey Ed's son. They should've went for it. You would've had Ava as an instant Bauer plus a Bauer/Reva off-spring. Jeffrey was being rammed down our throats anyway, he might as well be a Bauer. Especially since Michael O'Leary was clearly no longer capable of driving story long-term.

Right, why start then.

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

But ATWT killed Reid. 

Yeah,  but Reid was intended to be the "spoiler" from the start. The audience felt differently, but c'mon why would TPTB start to listen to the fans during the final months. They just didn't care and stuck with their plan regardless, like the endless Juicy Janet propping.

IMO, they should've wrote out Lilly instead of recasting. The role was already being wasted, without MB there was no point in the character. Would've generated better story if the character was written off, at least for six months, preferably a year or more.

Roger Howarth was a breath of fresh air as Paul on ATWT. The guy he replaced was so wooden in the role.  I feel every soap needs a good share of "scenery chewers" to keep things vibrant and lively. Not too many at once, but a balance. 

I also think RH's Paul fit better as Barbara's son as she was written in a far campier, over-the-top style ever since Hogan Sheffer came on. Much like Tom Pelphery was perfect as Kim Zimmer's son on GL as they had similar OTT acting styles and it made sense on screen.

Likely, she was known to audition for the role as did Emily O'Brien (later Gwen).

B&B: Brooke, of course.

GL: Reva, natch!

ATWT: Carly, I suppose.

People used to go on years without interacting on Y&R. Seemed to be part of the show's nature back then.