Planet Soap

On 1/15/2023 at 1:54 AM, Paul Raven said:

I agree he was sometimes to quick to split up couples, rather than try and get a few more years story from them. with long term characters that is important, otherwise we see 5 or 6 marriages and credibility is lost.

Exactly! I have little to no investment in seeing Jack, Ashley, Victoria or even Sharon get married or even be in a relationship because they've all been married or coupled all over the map so many times.

The Bold and the Beautiful is a prime example of couple pairings having zero effect because everyone's been with everyone. 

Writers have to learn that it's okay to have some people be single for a few years instead of romance being the go-to B plot to fill airtime.

GH: Maxie and Nathan were all the rage for a few minutes until Nathan was killed off.

Patrick and Sabrina were big back in 2012/13 until Robin came back.

On 1/5/2023 at 10:54 PM, Darn said:

They've all done such insane shít.

GH is a strange soap. Nefarious people are integrated members of the community. From the attempted humanization of Franco to Oberect, to Sonny being friends with Mayor Laura, and the Jason apologists, the morality is all weird. Josslyn for example was able to look past Sonny's criminal lifestyle until he cheated on her mother? I get having complex characters, but this is all mixed up. What's even worse are moral high ground women like Robin who excuses them, or like Alexis who still ended up having a child by Sonny.

As this year marks 20 years since the panic room storyline, question: how was Ric a functioning charachter after imprisoning a pregnant Carly and slipping Elizabeth birth control? How did he not go to jail or how was he not killed? He was able to become a detective (or was it police commissioner) and was able to marry Alexis. 

Speaking of quads and triangles, I know we established the Bell wasn't big on supercouples. Outside of that, the couple pairings on the show lacked the power of say ABC daytime pairings. It seemed like charachters just hopped from one to the next after about a year or so. Only a handful of relationships like Neil and Dru or Victor and Nilki really had much impact.

Sonny is no longer the lead. His grasp began slipping with the new regime in 2012, even moreso since Jason returned in 2017. 

SJB to me was the best Carly because it felt like you were watching an actual trasy and bratty sociopathic b**ch on one of those WeTv/Zeus reality shows. She had a masculine edge --her muscularity added to this-- yet the feminine vulnerability of a delinquent teenage girl. She sold the performance so well.

Tamera Braun was the petualnt diva pampered mob wife who was down to wear the ill gotten fur coat and tell off the cops for her man.

Laura is a balance. In the beginning Wright was very snotty like SJB, especially toward Robin. Wright also had Tamera's pampered wife image with Jax. Laura has her own spin which is a boss lady career woman making her own money. The boldness she showed during the metro court crisis displayed that.

To me, SJB had the best sexual chemistry with Jason. Tamera had the best chemistry with Sonny. Writght had the best friendship with Jason and the most sexual chemistry with AJ.

Despite how we may feel about Laura at times, GH did a good job at poaching her from Guiding Light to clean up the Jennifer Bransford miscast and fill Braun's void.

23 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Y&R: That final scene of Jill and Katherine with her going up the stairs and saying goodnight. 

22 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

B&B: Stephanie saying goodbye to everyone before heading off to the cabin to die. 
 

Y&R: Katherine’s final scene walking up the stairs.

Shows don't make me cry but those moments were very impactful.

Remembering the ferocious Katherine of the 80s made it all the more difficult to see her looking so weak. But she went out in the most dignified way!

Stephanie's lung cancer scenes where she was sick and coughing were so realistic, sad, and graphic in a way. Knowing that cancer is a very real way to die rather than some soap melo drama made it hit even harder.

Great promo for the 60th! even though CVS promotes it's soaps more, I have a feeling GH's 60th will be done better than Y&R's 50th. We could get Faces of the Heart back for the 60th like B&B brought back the 80s headshots for their 35th, that would be amazing. I'll keep dreaming though!

20 hours ago, titan1978 said:

James Reilly- not so much in his earlier work, but post DAYS possession through Passions- Characters constantly talking to themselves.

Another trope of Reilly was running mini stories around the larger ongoing plots.  He did this at GL, DAYS, and Passions.  Examples like Belle’s kidnapping being another story told within the frame of Marlena cheating on Roman, without ultimately resolving the main plot, only extending it.

Bob Guza- we spent a lot of time in court with Guza.  Both in little trials and larger ones like Laura with Damian’s death, Luke on trial for “killing” Stefan, Michael’s trial about Claudia, the many Sonny trials.  We saw Alexis, Ric and Scotty in court a lot.

20 hours ago, Darn said:

Isn't this just soap?

I guess Reilly's difference was characters constantly being on the cusp of finding out the truth. Every scene before a commercial break would seemingly lead into someone finding out some big secret. This would go on for 6 months at a time. Even if there was a side plot to extend the main plot the main plot would never lose focus because everyone was always reiterating what they were hiding and why.

This is what soaps today lack the ability to do. Mini stories sandwiched in the main plot, so that it doesn't feel like the main plant is being endlessly prolonged.

For example, while we waited for Bobbie to find out Carly was her daughter, we got the Tony/Carly affair plot, Michael's paternity, and Jason/Robin's breakup inbetween. From that story was a springbord into Carly hiding AJ as Michael's natural father which also launched the Tony kidnapping and marriage to AJ stories. Today its just repeated dialouge and excessive complications that drag.

I think the short hair was good because it set her apart (minus Emily and Molly), as she was an anti-establishment character in the beginning.

What do you guys think about her baby daddy hopping storyline in the late 90s?  Was it was excessive to have her go between so many men like Jack, Hal, John and Brad? How exactly did it work out that John inseminated Carly with his sperm? Did he not tell Carly that he was using his own sample?

On 1/5/2023 at 2:55 PM, ranger1rg said:

The biggest problem is that GH never finishes a story -- they just add layers and layers of more plot, even retconning what we've seen before.

At some point (like with Cody), it all becomes convoluted and confusing. Some of you try to make sense of it all, but I just say "Screw it," telling myself that the history doesn't matter much and that they're making it up as they go along.

Exactly, unfinished story gets a random new layer. For example: was Harmony always Neil's killer or was that a last minute addition?

I have a feeling we won't get a proper resolution to who The Hook is. Heather as the culprit is anti climactic.

I don't even think they intended for Esmé to be Heather's daughter the entire time. Why does the show always feel the need to make new additions related to current players.  Eventually, the writers won't be able to remember all the random family trees, and have people who are cousins dating.

On 1/5/2023 at 8:59 PM, Vee said:

Credit where it's due: Eden McCoy was very good with William Lipton today. Lipton is always excellent. It's GH's fault for not securing him on a contract, but that doesn't have to mean he can't get major story. AFAIK Kathleen Gati, useless JPS and half the cast are off contract. If they want to commit to Cameron they can do so. It is a choice, but Frank (and GH before him) has always has a aversion to the homegrown 'good' characters, always is chasing the next pointless hardbody. Dex, Brando, etc. are interchangeable to me.

Dex & Joss = Molly & Brando = Dev & Trina/Joss. Sketchy guy of the moment. Esme=Nelle=Carly. If GH's writers are going to keep re-introducing the same archetype in such a short span, make it diverse by changing their race at least.

32 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her son. Vanessa/Lorie

2 hours ago, ironlion said:

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her husband. Stephanie/Brooke B&B, Katherine/Jill Y&R.

After taking husband, Younger beautiful woman forces her way into company during bitter separation: Jill at Jabot, Brooke at Forrester after BeLeif.

Bill Bell: red headed/dark haired psychopath uses sexuality to manipulate desperate man: Phyllis/Morgan & Dr.Tim Reid, Sheila & Mike.

Red headed/dark haired psychopath drugs and or rapes high status man in order to get pregnant: Sheila & Dr. Scott, Phyllis & rockstar Danny.

Bill Bell: Miserable grand dame resents younger beautiful woman for taking her husband. Stephanie/Brooke B&B, Katherine/Jill Y&R.

What was the direction of Ryan's charachter? Twice he lead women on in relationships while married. First Nina then Tricia? he seemed more apologetic than Brad for me to call him a womanizer.

RIP Quinn. Kay's best husband who barely gets a mention, yet we always hear about the "beloved Phillip".

5 hours ago, kalbir said:

Y&R initial set up was an upper class family headed by a newspaper publisher and a working class family headed by a factory worker single mother. As we saw in the first two episodes during the 2020 classics, the upper class Brooks family didn't live in a mansion with a staff, matriarch Jennifer Brooks prepared dinner for her family, and they ate at the kitchen table. Y&R did introduce wealth and business in the 1970s (Chancellor, Prentiss) but it wasn't until the 1980s that wealth and business became the focus and that was due to Dallas/Dynasty influence.

Bill Bell used the two family set up on B&B with the wealthy family that owned a fashion label and a working class family headed by a single mother that worked as a caterer.

You are correct. The evolution to luxury happened early in both shows runs to the point where I'm associating them wilth wealth.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I think Maura can pull off any haircut. The baby bangs annoyed me, but short hair was a thing back in the late 90s. I think Maura's is the shortest I ever saw on anyone on a soap, but Lesli usually stuck to a short layered 'do. Specifically, that pic was from early '98, when Holden tricked Molly into thinking he was marrying her. And it's actually a tad longer than when she returned in Sept 97. 

KMH frankly looked better to me with shorter hair. Hers was baby fine and looked wispy if it was longer.

Melody Thomas Scott and Katherine Kelly Lang both jumped on the trend and looked good aswell. I think short hair works best for Maura. Specifically these cuts, (middle one from Y&R).

6 hours ago, Vee said:

The mid-'90s OLTL update also showcased the urban world and the Banner newspaper backdrop via shots of the paper, ending on a shot of a newsstand IIRC, etc. Those were great identity markers.

I loved that opening, but I do wish that at some point they'd fused elements of it with an update of the Peabo Bryson song. Something like that is still what I'd go with today. The terrible 2004-2011 opening was just a tossed-off, cheap rehash of similar material being done by Frons' ABCD at AMC and GH around the same time, only much more low-effort and with less of an individual identity than either one - AMC got the photo album and classic theme, while GH got its OTT high-budget Guza revamp. At OLTL the cast was simply expected to vamp for the network-wide black backdrop commercial bumpers, and while all the soaps did those bumpers only OLTL's opening sequence was done in the same format and clearly as part of the same shoot. It seems ABC felt they didn't merit more time or effort than that.

The only thing visible that had any identifiable markers in the OLTL 2004 update was vague background shots of the college campus they shot at on location briefly in early '04 as part of the Music Box Killer story. It was clearly intended to showcase Llanview University, which Brian Frons was pushing as a major focus of the show with the latest round of failed twentysomething characters (the Love Crew). No sign of the Banner, nothing else. OLTL was simply never a priority for Frons. People mock the goofy Snoop Dogg opening in 2013, but at least it had a personality lol.

OLTL always felt like the middle child of ABC Daytime. GH and AMC were greater priority. I don't know if people off the street (of a particular age) could name an OLTL storyline off the dome. They just know the name however.

That 90s urban opening with end credit shots of basketball courts and Amtrak trains really cemented the show's urban feel. The dialogue between characters on one life to live, especially the Christian/Natalie/Jess youth scene felt more down to earth and every day life than the more glamorous Y&R. 

A lot of the soaps transition between a big city or small town atmosphere whenever it's convenient for them. Guiding Light felt big cityish in the 90s only to seem very small and suburban during the new production model around 2008. 

Repeated names I keep seing across shows: Shelly Altman, Jean Passanante, Pat Falken Smith, Megan McTavish, Lorraine Broderick. Do/did they have any defining features to their writting?

Trademarks of Ron Carlivati/Frank Valentini soap: random and messy uses of established history, dark and edgy crime stories and youth charachters.

Is crazy how Isabella and Tricia just took a turn for the crazy. 

On 1/3/2023 at 10:44 PM, Darn said:

Before Mariah was made a lesbian I envisioned a story where Cameron Kirsten seduced and manipulated her as revenge against Sharon. The fact that he's still alive and they haven't used him to generate story for Sharon is just absurd.

Cameron, Grace and Amy can return for a story as a thowback to the Gen X clan from the 90s. Donna isn't serving a prupose on B&B so the actress would be good here. I'd love to Grace her get into a troubled marriage with Nick and raise hell for the Newman family. Maybe the marriage blows up with Nick cheating on her with Amy or something. Grace gets revenge by bringing Cameron back, Mariah kills him defending Sharon and there's a whole trial, Matt Clarke's lookalike cousin surfaces. Something.

Even though the actress no longer performs due to a medical condition, it would be nice to see Tricia return as a ghost something for just a scene.

1 hour ago, Melroser said:

When JFP came to AW she tried to turn it into ER/NYPD BLUE. There was a brand new (large) hospital set with the outside entrance in the street where Gabe (John Bolger) was shot. She also changed the opening of the show to the last version it had. (Which I personally liked but a lot of people didn't).

AW had mostly been a show about families and relationships and JFP turned it into more of an "action"/plot soap in the beginning....or at least tried. I believe Justine (Vicky Wyndham) was created before JFP, but wasn't the character on for most of JFP's run? I'm sure Justine turned into a cartoonish character because of the way JFP wanted her show to be. 

That final intro, which I also like, was really screaming ER. Same font, similar two letter abbreviation logos, and similar tinted backgrounds.

JFP's tendedncy for action was really evident on GH. Bill Bell's style of soap is daytime's closest thing to Aaron Spelling. Troubled lives of lavish people. Spelling's Dynasty's influence was obious in Dickson's Jill becoming Alexis Carrington from about 1985 onwards.  

Primetime's influence in daytime was also obvious with the show Texas and the Buchannan's on OLTL. 

What were some of the defining features that a creator, executive producer, head writer or writer brought to a show?

For example, a Bell created soap like Y&R and B&B focuses heavily on business, wealth and people of status, who seem like they live in a magazine. Examples being Jill, Katherine, Nikki and Victor. 

In contrast, Agnes Nixons's soaps were adept at showing a wide class of people from the welathy to the inner city. Noah and Julia's orbit on the same show as Erica's orbit.

As for writers, James E Riely clearly brought melo drama and fanatsy on both DAYS and Passions. 

What perhaps were defining features of Douglas Marland's or Jill Pharren Phelps' presences on a soap? 

50 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

Technically married but in the process of divorce. Victor got depressed when he saw that Ashley had married Dr. Steven Lassiter. Nikki comforted him and got pregnant.

thanks.

EDIT: Were Victor and Nikki together or divorced when Nick was conceived? I'm Realizing that Nick grew up with his parents never being married. 

I know this was posted already but it's interesting to see how much a documentary broadcast on E! got incorrect. Guiding Light went to television in 1952 not 57, they say Irna Phillips co-created not story editied DAYS. Jamie Lyn Bauer played Lori not Jennifer, yet they say she played Lori in part 2. Then they said she played Laura Horton on DAYS before not after Y&R.

On 12/31/2022 at 12:03 AM, John said:

Have they mentioned Ryder & Daisy?

Nope. Neither Diana either. That's why Finn been being her child is so stupid because she has so many random children running around.