Planet Soap

Steffy could just tell Douglas he can't live with her to keep him safe from her mess with Sheila. 

My list based on most impactful:

1 Victor

2 Katherine

3 Nikki

4 Jill

5 Jack

6 Drucilla

7 Ashley

8 Christine

9 Lorie

10 Sharon

Bonus: Nick

OLTL Plot hole:

Mitch says he gave his baby to Viki to grow up in luxury and gave Clint's baby to Walter & Roxy in 1986.

How could Mitch have known which newborn twin was his vs Clint's without a blood test???

It's telling that the two most reality grounded soaps, Y&R and B&B, have remained on top.

2 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

In the late 60's CBS were making more money from daytime than their #1 primetime schedule.

As for the lack of diversity in soaps, I think this was pretty much due to the inherently conservative nature of the networks-they liked the tried and true. This was just as evident in primetime.

Quite often, anything outside the box that worked was regarded as the exception to the rule.

In daytime the innovations eg soaps in the morning, teen orientated (Never Too Young) gothic (Dark Shadows) never really took off. 

CBS /Irna pushed the envelope with interracial romance on Love Is A Many Splendore Thing but it was soon dropped.

Only Agnes Nixon really had success with more daring plots but she was smart to incorporate plenty of traditional soap stories also.

So Gloria Monty incorporating sci/fi adventure really was an innovation that worked and other shows followed. But it was another nail in the coffin along with the 60 min format and the 'star system'.

 

Expand on the star system. Would like to hear your perspective. 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Thank you for thinking of me. Over the years, I've vehemently complained (many would say ad nauseum, LOL) about how the quality of the medium has dive-bombed since the golden age of soap operas. Long-time readers of SON are surely well aware of my opinions by now.

The main thing I would like to reiterate is, that during daytime dramas' halcyon years (the 1950s-1970s for most shows, into the 1980s for a lesser number of them, and then into the 1990s for a few), high-quality material was to be expected. It was maintained by many/most soaps on a consistent basis. If individual programs faltered, steps were taken within a reasonable time to correct the problems (obviously weak/incompent PTB were replaced). Viewers could simply take intelligent, well-produced drama for granted. The cracks started to appear in the 1980s, with the crippling science-fiction/fantasy craze, and got worse over the decades that followed. Shows' individual nature and unique identities were gutted, as veteran actors were jettisoned, as history was ignored, and finally, as soaps  in general seemed to become dumbed down for gum-chewing high-school drop-outs who moved their lips when they read. (Excuse the sarcasm.) Poorly-chosen writers and producers, who failed miserably at one show, were routinely shuffled to another one, only to fail there too. It was (and is) unfathomable how proven incompetence can be rewarded by consistently employing the incompetent to wreak havoc on multiple shows, with similar damaging results at each one. Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon, William J. Bell, Henry Slesar, Claire Labine, Douglas Marland, Pat Falken Smith and other writers of their ilk being rotated among soaps was a blessing. James Reilly, Ron Carlivati, Thom Racina, Charles Pratt, Megan McTavish, Hogan Sheffer, Jean Passanante, etc.? Not so much, in my personal, curmudgeonly opinion. 

During my most obsessed/addicted period in the 1970s (soaps' very best decade IMHO), I followed most of the shows on the air. God only knows how I juggled them all. I would alternate watching or recording some of them which were on competing networks at the same time, but there were several dramas that I would never miss if I could help it. I thought the glory days would go on forever, but by the end of the 1980s, I was down to following only a handful of shows, and in the 1990s, it was only Claire Labine's General Hospital, Douglas Marland's ATWT  and Nancy Curlee's TGL that captivated me. 

All this to say: watching the good old days of soaps was a blessing, and I am happy knowing what the medium was capable of; the heights it soared to at its peak. That's why seeing what it has disintegrated into today is so heartbreaking.

 

Would you say all soaps should have never touched the ultra-melo dramatic material or should have been a balance with shows old-school stage play feeling while others went over the top?

SB: Outside of medical and supernatural,  I'm surpirsed the genere never went for more distinction between soaps like primetime. A few comedy soaps here and there, a legal soap etc.. Largely all daytime dramas have been about the same with a few subtle differences. 

GOOD, OLTL: It's been discussed on different threads already but Mitch being Jessica's father was well done as it was plausible and rooted in history. My only issues were that the recreated flashabcks where crappy and it took ten years to make Clint her pops again. Loved the slow reintroduction of Allison Perkins which lead up to all of this. 

NEUTRAL: Ray is Jock's son, Dallas. Did it really advance any plot? I guess it works from the poor outsider now has to fight for his place angle. Maybe it expanded his stories beyond ranch hand. Otherwise, he and Lucy were another Billy and Mac. Screw the incestuos ramifications, let's make 'em family for some shock value.    

BAD: Dylan is Paul & Nikki's son. A complete retcon of events that played out onscreen. How could they say Ian Ward was cult leader when someone completely different was established as such on screen (as I've read on these threads). Just like Sheila, inventing new children when a charachter has negleted offspring from whom to draw conflict. 

On 2/12/2023 at 1:36 PM, kalbir said:

Bill Bell said in a 1996 interview that he regretted writing the storyline where Malcolm took advantage of an over-medicated Dru.

It was brought up again in 2000, when Dru/Malcolm got together. Dru reminded Malcolm of the night that he behaved impulsively with her and Malcolm mentioned he regretted what happened that night. There was no mention though that Lily may have been the result of that night.

The way it was framed around 2006 was that Malcolm did not know Dru was high or that she believed she was sleeping with Neil instead of him. 

Neutral: Irene Manning is Todd & Victor Jr's mother, OLTL. The essential question is did Todd have to made made a Lord? I suppose it was a way to give the charachter money so he could pull off bigger schemes, and use rewritten Victor Sr. as the origin for Todd's darkness. If not, Todd didn't necesarily have to be related to anyone to be a good villain. With Victor Jr, making him Irene's son had to be done to facilitate Roger Howarth's return. 

Bad: Jill is Neil Fenmore's daughter. It's still better than Jill as Kay's daughter but I wish there was a way to Liz & Bill her parents again. Unfortunately in 2003, Liz stated outright that Jill was adopted.

Bad: Finn is Sheila's son, B&B. Sheila had so many existing offspring to choose from. If they said he was Ryder or something escaping his past that would've made sense. But a whole new son while she was obsessing over Scott Jr for years???

I sympathize with this thread's question. It must have been great to have a plethora of shows with great storytelling unfolding every weekday afternoon, and watch it live. 

Growing up in the 2000s I thought soaps were the greatest thing until vintage YouTube clips made me realize how far they'd fallen. The only good thing about today is the ability to DVR soaps. 

There's so little left on the air air that you watch all three tv soaps back to back on many markets (12:30-3pm).

Ill start:

OLTL: Victor Lord Murder & Viki's DID (1994-96). So much happened in between: David & Tina, Todd finding out he was the heir, Viki contracting some virus, Sloan dying. All this under the umbrella of Viki trying to get Dorian imprisoned for killing her father, only to realize she did it herself. This story just went from one to the next. 

ATWT: Carly trying to have a baby by 1998 to meet Rosanna's money deadline. (about 97-99) 

Basically the title:

GH:

Bad: Franco being Soctt & Heather's son. Completely out of left field and born out of an obsession of tying new charachters to the canvas unncesarily. 

Y&R:

Bad: Jill is Kay's daughter. Especially because it came at the expense of Billy and Mac. Did they think "screw this couple we've invested in, let's write this shocking retcon".

Neutral: Sure it made for some quick drama in '95 and '06, but did Lilly being Malcolm's daughter serve the show in any way?

On 2/8/2023 at 11:29 AM, Faulkner said:

It’s giving JJ’s Lucky for me. Thankfully, Tony Geary and GF were allowed to return serve in scenes with JJ for the most part. The Niks largely just sit there and take his abuse. (Neither Coloma nor Huss really has the gravitas to stand up to him anyway. TC, in his better days, probably could.)

Which is so weird, as “threatening” used to be JPS’s forte. He just looks so wan on GH. I think a lot of it is in how he (and Victor) are written too. They are like skim-milk versions of Cassadines.

I was just going to say this! In the YouTube postings of Lucky confronting Laura about marrying her rapist, many commenters said the same thing, smug. 

I would also say Laura's relationship with Spencer kind of reminds me of her and Lucky back in the day. 

Watching modern GH in clips on YT is far more interesting than sitting through a whole episode live. I guess because I can skip through the crap.

From the magazine shots: Alan and Monica are really underrated as a couple and are often just lumped together witht the Qs as a whole. I would dare to say they are one of the best and most toxicly entertaining couples in soap history. They have the longevity of Tom & Margo on ATWT. 

Very OLTL with the heaven scenes.

Need the anti aging elizr that Portia and Elizabeth have discovered.

New Nik isn't that good from what I've seen.

20 hours ago, kalbir said:

Bill Bell recast Y&R Ashley twice (1988 and 1996) and in hindsight, neither worked. Can we think of anyone who would have worked in either 1988 or 1996?

16 hours ago, Dr Neil Curtis said:

I thought the 1988 recast actually worked and fans enjoyed her over the 1996 recast. 

Brenda Epperson was dare I say better than Eileen Davidson. She was warmer, had more sex appeal, and romatic chemistry with her male love interests than Eileen. Eileen was better as Kristin on DAYS for me.  Shari Shattuck however, wasn't all that. She wasnt terrible, just not right for Ashley.

What is the general concensus around Luke & Tracy's relationship. Did the public like it, did you all like it?

As much as I like Laura I will admit that Tracy's cynicism compliments the later darker Luke. I do think they're played out now though.

On 2/4/2023 at 9:37 AM, titan1978 said:

It very well could have been Frons.  I always suspected it was JFP because she was the one that tried to stop Genie from taking the summer off which lead to her leaving the show.  Even though Tony was also going to be gone for the same amount of time.  This was after Guza and Pratt were installed as HW and given their producer credits.  I just always chalked it up to another example of JFP not being willing to work with a woman performers needs and wants like she clearly did with the men.

I always find it funny that Geneie Francis (based on what I've read) was treated so disposably despite being apart of the most celebrated supercouple on soaps. I guess she didn't have as much leveraging power in negotiations because she wasn't made to be first female lead in her later runs compared to say Susan Lucci on AMC, Diedre Hall on DOOL or even the Carlys on GH.

Likewise, based on what I've read, if not for Tony Geary's storyline interfearences --- could Luke & Laura have been a more stable and long lasting pairing without Luke becoming increasingly dark as a charachter?

90s family man Luke is a great partner for Laura, otherwise cynical Luke is perfect for Tracy. 

Louise Sorel would have been a decent Dorian had Elaine Princi not taken the role.

Princi and Claire Malis were really good as Dorian. I havent been taken in by Nancy Pinkerton's performance but I think I just need to watch more. 

43 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

I want the ambulance opening back and Y&R to get rid of actors names in the intro.

 

Open with the classic ambulance which transitions into Faces of the Heart

15 hours ago, Broderick said:

I think he's a horrible excuse for Billy.  Not saying he's a bad actor -- he's good -- but he ain't Billy.  

In my opinion, the Billy character is due for a rest.  A lot of folks don't like a certain actor with a cheshire cat grin who once played Billy, I believe but he embodied the character as an adult better than anyone else has.  

Is Sandra Nelson not into doing soaps anymore?

There's dislike for him, but I would take Billy Miller in a second over Jason Thompson as Billy Abbott. Thompson is too brooding and serious. He was that exact same way in his last few years as GH's Patrick. Much like Y&R's Paul, you'd never realize Dr. Patrick was a playboy in his early days in the role, based on latter year performances.

On 2/1/2023 at 11:54 PM, SteelCity said:

I'm in love with the idea of Jamie Luner as Phyllis on YR. She's got that sexiness that Phyllis is supposed to have and plays the bitch well. 

 

I can see that.

On 2/2/2023 at 12:18 AM, Vee said:

Heinle has never been very good as Victoria. What's really trippy though is when she first came on, some eps from which they showed on CBS during the COVID lockdown in 2020, they were clearly testing pairing her up with Jack.

Which would've been crazy because Jack was her stepdad (while she was a minior), plus saw her as a baby multiple times....Not that that matters on soaps (B&B)

I wonder of it's awkward for Heather Tom & Don Diamont on Bold because she was a teen when she started on Y&R and he was there. 

Reguarding back from the dead with a new face:

I think it's best that writers not acknowledge a character's new face because that assumes the recast is permanent. 

Look at Adam on Y&R. He was recasted as an adult four times, but they only acknowledged his new face in the transition between Muney and Heartley's portrayls.

Unless it serves story purpose for a character to look different, recasts don't need to be acknowedged. 

I also think recasts shouldn't disqualify flash back scenes with different portrayers. Unless it's an issue of residuals, shows could simply have a caption at the bottom the screen saying something like : "Ashley was protrayed by Brenda Epperson at the time".

Despite continuity concerns, fans understand the nature of the businesses is to have actors be leave, be replaced, and return. 

2 hours ago, Michael said:

Oh, I agree. It's all so retroactive and ridiculous. There's just nothing to distinguish them from one another anymore besides loving Anna, and I guess that Tony is nicER or sillier or whatever. They're just not even really characters to me.

All of this sounds so confusing. As a light Days watcher, I'm just now figuring out that those two are separate characters.

BEST

GH: Jason 2017. It was great having OG Jason back. Steve Burton owned the role too much to have anyone else be believable in it. 

Robin 2013: Robin was shown to be alive but presumed dead. Her reunion with Patrick and Emma was great, but it was frustrating to have her leave the show again. At least she and Patrick went off into the sunset.

GL: Reeva 1995. I like the drama surrounding her breaking up Josh and Annie, which created one of the shows greatest villains. Some people didn't like it however because it went back to Reeva being the star instead of an ensemble.

17 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

Then SK dared to speak out about the writing for AJ and ReRon got his panties into a twist and punished SK with never ending fat jokes

Sean's AJ and Laura's Carly had great chemistry and they would have worked as a toxic pairing. Billy Warlok's AJ and Sarah Brown's Carly had this new Alan & Monica angle going for them aswell, back when they were married. I've said this endlessly but a huge ball was dropped by the writers. That was the last genuinely interesting story line I could say Carly had aside from some Nelle material. 

Worst
OLTL: Victor Lord Sr. (2003): For a charachter with so many post mortem rewrites and whose daughter sufferd an entire pysocological breaking over killing him, resurecting him was non sensical. 

Irene: I get that Irene was resurrected to facilitate Roger Howard's return, but it could've been explained in the less confusing matter. Did new Irene get any scenes with Tina?

GH: Jake Webber. I'm glad that Jake is alive but he shouldn't have bwen killed to begin with. I guess the writers are going for a cheap imitation of Maxi & BJ's heart transplant. The problem was that it undid the organ transplant with Josslyn, leading to a convoluted explanation about how her  kidney actually came from Nelle. 

BEST

DAYS: Roman/John/Marlena. I liked everything from John black to original Roman to Marlene's returns from the dead. All of those events were very concequential to DAYS for years. 

OLTL: Mitch Lawrence (2002). I loved the buildup with bringing Allison out of her coma and introducing Natalie, with the ultimate reveal that Mitch was Jessica's "father". It was a great use of history from the 80s. It was a risky RETCON to permanently make a legacy character like Jessica (who grew up on the show) the daughter of a psycho rapist. I'm glad they undid that in the series finale. Mitch's character went off the rails with a litany of puzzling plots like diamonds, Victor being alive, Flynn/Walker Lawrence? , and Alison switching Schyuler Joplin and Rex as babies too name a few.