j swift

My recollection is that Cassie and her four musketeers was a classic example of a solid idea that was poorly executed.  The story of Mary/Mason had already established that there was an orphanage that CC patronized because the sisters had a side business as nannies for the Capwell kids.  So, an umbrella story about the other children who grew up in the orphanage seems like a good idea.  Stephen was tied to Sophia because he was directing her life story.  Derek and Craig were in a triangle with Kelly.  And Ethan was the new district attorney which put him at odds with Julia and Mason. 

There was even an intriguing mystery when the story started that the audience didn't know why these men were connected or who the lady was that they were all protecting.

John Conboy was producing and Sheri Anderson quit as the writer just as the story was starting.  First mistake, one of the musketeers was cast with Leigh McCloskey who had just played Eden's rapist Zach.  Then, Richard Hatch who played Stephen had to be recast.  Then, right before the culmination of the plot Terry Lester left as Mason and was recast with Gordon Thompson because someone "forgot" to renew his contract.  Finally, the Dobsons win their lawsuit and return to the show.  By the 18th trip back to the Capwell tunnel, when the show finally got to the exposition of why the men were avenging Cassie's honor, most of the characters had been recast.  There were no opportunities for the show to use flashbacks to explain the plot because everyone had a new face.   So, one week Stephen is accusing Cassie of burning his film about the Capwells, then they both disappear...

The Dobson's wanted nothing to do with the current plots so they were dropped.  Concurrently, Gloria Monty was returning to GH and although there were multiple firings, every character got an exit.  Cassie was simply never discussed again by anyone in her family.  Much like her nephew Brick.   

Valerie Starrett was  Nurse Diana Taylor #1

I found this great source: https://sixtiescinema.com/2013/05/28/valerie-starrett-responds/

Starrett left the role in 1977 at the time when Tom Donovan took over as executive producer, brought in new directors and wanted to take the show in a different direction. This included the Diana Taylor character who would go from the show’s popular heroine to a more grasping desperate woman. Starrett left (Brooke Bundy took over as Diana) and her fans were outraged. Shortly after Donovan was replaced by Gloria Monty. With Luke and Laura now the soap’s main focus, Diana was pushed to the backburner and became more grasping than ever trying to keep her adoptive son from the birth mother. To put the character and the audience out of their misery, Diana was found murdered lying in a pool of blood in her kitchen with the name Ann Logan spelled out in blood.

Valerie’s response to them:  “Hi!  It’s Valerie Starrett.  I just saw this!  The fans meant everything to me!  and you are all right!  I did not like the direction Diana was going and I ‘m happy I got out before it went downhill.  You have no  Idea how much I enjoyed being Diana and will forever thank you for watching me!  As a funny side note, I am still best friends with Rachel Ames, Audrey!  We see movies and plays together often!” (this published was in 2013)

FYI, since I looked up the others, Don Chastain played Tom Baldwin (who I'm not sure if he was Scotty's uncle because I thought he was Lee's brother, but it is not referenced in the GH wikibio) he raped Audrey and sired Tom Hardy (which is interesting to think of all the ties Tom Jr would have to the current canvas).  Lee Warrick played  Mary-Ellen Dante the psychotic ex-wife of Dr. Mark Dante (I recall Mark always being a backburnered doctor in the 80s with great hair, but I may be confusing him with Derek Barrington).  And Karen Purcil(l) (70s soap mags are always misspelling actor's names) played Jill Streeter who I can't find anything more on than what is in the soap hopper thread. 

I read this on the Vintage Soap Tumblr and it caught my eye.  I was familiar with the Gloria Monty actor purge both times that she took over as EP, but there was a prior purge in 1977:

I guess we'll never know if it is acolyte writers trying to honor another generation or network executive demanding vintage names, but I agree with the conclusion that I while enjoyed Maura West, I found her to be nothing like the Diane that I recalled.  Jack, Victor, and even characters that are Nick's age are also open to stories about long lost college sweethearts who have children of questionable heritage.  Perhaps this casting will put the proverbial nail in the coffin of casting a veteran actor and then randomly assigning them a veteran character's name, even though their characterization of the part is completely different, because it is just a setup for critics and fans to dislike the newer version. 

.

Soap fans never change... https://vintagesoaparchives.tumblr.com/

BTW, the answer refers to the fact that Donald May was fired which I had never read before.  

On 4/23/2019 at 7:47 PM, j swift said:

I just find it remarkable that there are no memorable scenes between the two sisters.

I stand equally corrected and entertained, thanks for each of those videos, I never appreciated their relationship as much as I have now that I've watched these.

But, I can't resist saying (a) Kelly really seemed to enjoy whipping Eden around in that wheelchair (it threatens to fall into Baby Jane camp), (b) she changed her tune later when she went after Cruz for herself, and (c) it amuses me as an odd overlooked detail when soaps put people with paralysis in outfits that would be impossible for them to wear in a wheelchair.

4 minutes ago, Forever8 said:

Surprisingly one of my favorite characters on this show is Miss Ellie Ewing 

 

Barbara Bel Geddes brings something extra to this southern matriarch who can command respect from the men in her family without even raising her voice. I love how she even told Jock that she didn't need his last name to feel secure because she was a "Southworth" 

Ellie changes so much in the early seasons.  In S1 she's of a bit Lady Macbeth, whispering in Sue Ellen's ear to have a baby before Pam.  She was a bit more calculating before Jock died (sorry for the spoiler), then she's docile while dating Clayton until she makes a big comeback in the final season in the fight against Carter Mckay, including that legendary visual when she drives over to confront Carter in her little white convertible. 

On 4/25/2019 at 6:50 PM, watson71 said:

 

 

1

1 hour ago, watson71 said:

 

The next week, NBC revamped their entire daytime lineup.  They were probably advertising the new shows that would premiere in January, 1983.

 

10 AM- The Facts of Life reruns

10:30 AM- Sale of the Century

11 AM- Wheel of Fortune

11:30 AM- Hit Man

12:00 PM- Just Men starring Betty White

12:30 PM- Search for Tomorrow 

1 PM- Days of our Lives

2 PM- Another World

3 PM- Fantasy

 

 

Through the magic of YouTube I was able to watch Just Men and Fantasy(!).  I understand why 37 years later there are stlll boards dedicated to Texas(!) and not its the replacements.

Fantasy! hosted by Peter Marshall & Leslie Uggams (one could not get a more C-rate celeb duo in 1982) gave out minuscule amounts of cash to fulfill wishes.  It could be described as the 80s version of when Kathie Lee would sing for dying kids and their family on Today a few years ago.  One family got $2,700 to publish a kid's newspaper which covered "the bare minimum to keep the presses going."  It should have been called Fantasy (as long as it's under five grand).

Just Men tries to be provocative but is just sexist in retrospect.  Betty White asks seven male celebrities a question about a social topic and the contestants have to guess their answers in order to try to win a Ford Mustang convertible.  In an audience filled with women, didn't anyone take offense that four out of seven hunks would refuse care from a female physician?    BTW, there was a maximum of two hunky guys per week, the other men were uninspiring.  Then, if the contestant doesn't win the key to open the Mustang they don't get anything, except the requisite Turtle Wax and cleaning products!  These were the cheapest game shows in history!  I would not be surprised if Betty White's hair budget cost more than the prizes.

15 hours ago, Adamski said:

I really want to re-watch an episode in honour of Ken Kercheval. Which season do you guys think has Cliff's best moments?

I apologize that I don't have the specific episodes, but all of my favorite Cliff moments were when he was able to experience a small victory over JR (even though the rug would inevitably be pulled from underneath him the following week). 

In S3 (the Who Shot JR? season) there is an episode where Cliff is on some governmental board and JR needs some sort of drilling variance and Cliff is able to reject it; which I think is the first time that Cliff was able to flex his power  Then, in the S5 finale ep, Cliff and the cartel think they are able to buy Ewing Oil because JR defaults on a loan, but Cliff becomes the cliffhanger when JR double crosses him.

I also totally agree on the appeal of Jason and Linda.  Knots had a knack for finding younger talent that played well with the core cast. 

5 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Mario is still super hot.

Being a straight semi-successful guy on the Upper East Side seems like a dream for Mario.  You can humiliate your ex-wife in the press for years, and then be called a prince for gifting her alcoholic friends some free wine charms that you found at the bottom of your desk.  And if one lady says she won't sleep with you, turn your back and find another one.  A man with hair, a credit card, and a black leather jacket could probably score a home cooked meal twice a week, a month in the Hamptons, and the Restilyn-filled gal of his choice. 

They seemed happier than the "artist" with a million birds who has lost the concept of time.  Things either happened ten years ago or ten minutes ago, he doesn't seem to recall.  Did you see his paintings in Sonja's testimonial background?  Bethanny's point of how that experience validated Tinsley and Sonja's history made zero sense to me.  Bethanny is a long time scholar of the New York Post, certainly, she read about them both in their prime. 

While Barbara is on her apology tour, I feel like nobody is nice to Tinsley.  She seems like a girl who is game for a good time, but they are treating her like an idiot.  And did she tell Dorinda they broke up at the circus and again at the spa, or did she say it on spa day for the first time?  Also, I smiled that for all of the talk about wrap dresses, they only had two shots of Barbara in a wrap dress.  Meanwhile, Bethanny bought out the entire fall season of Gucci, with all those stripes and bows, and nobody calls her out.

Look at Ramona tonight and in her flashbacks, she has been engineered not to droop.  It reminds me of a play I saw with Jane Fonda and in one dramatic scene, she had to take off her blouse.  She was a woman over 70 with a chest that stood straight forward on its own.  Every other part had aged: her hands, her neck, her walk, but her bazongas were still hard as rocks.  The future of NYC won't be like The 5th Element, it will look like Dorinda's real estate agent; zombies who can still support a strapless dress and the men they crave.

I am mixed on this season's finale song.  While I appreciate that the videos in later season include more of the ladies performances, the variable levels of ability seemed like more of an issue in this song.  I totally disagree with the critique of Brook Lynn, but Miss Vangie was visibly not lip syncing.  Read U, Wrote U and Kitty Girl are still the two songs that I replay, and I don't this one is going on my playlist.

BH had a couple of other highlights.  We got to catch up with the Work of Art: The Next Great Artist's China Chow (an old Bravo favorite of mine).  She's dating Billy Idol who is not aging gracefully but still may look better than John Mellencamp these days.  I was interested to see backstage at The Greek.  They've redecorated the green rooms and they are nice.  Also, I am always happy to see Gladys Night.

BH never admits that they're drunk (cue the champagne and tequila with no food and screaming baby) when they fight.  I am sure if Kyle were sober than she would have jabbed PK right back.

sorry

Amusingly, Owen Beckman has his Y&R publicity photo on IMDB, but not the credit https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2124304/

I had forgotten ATWT had so many Lucy Montgomerys ( Amanda Seyfried (1999–2001), Peyton List (2001–05), Spencer Grammer (2006), Sarah Glendening (2008–10)

and Jennifer Munsons ( Michelle Ann Nemeh (1990–91), Sara Garney (1992–93), Brianne Sassone (1993–95), Alexandra Herzog (1995–99), Kim Onasch (1999–2002), Jennifer Ferrin (2003–06)) - dates from wiki unverified 

My first impression of S1 is that they had a huge robe budget, everyday Ridge and Thorne are lounging around in new robes, perfectly opened.  I'm seeing the inspiration for Brooke's bedroom line, the Forresters only wore office suits or swimsuits.  Every episode seems to be directed by a fan of Alfred Hitchcock, breakfast scenes are shot from above, intimate discussions are framed by shadows.  We are always looking up Stephanie's nose or down Brooke's chest.

Also, the Caroline/Ridge foray seemed similar to Nick/Grace on Y&R where it only makes sense if they did "it" from behind.  Those Bell Blondes were freaky.  

16 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

She could have headed up the art department of Capwell Enterprises.

She could have designed jeans for Gina or worked with her mother at Armonti, but the only job I recall was when she was Adrianna's overqualified fake nanny in Paris.

She also miscarried Robert Barr's baby right before Flame shot him.

I just find it remarkable that there are no memorable scenes between the two sisters.  When Kelly is at the asylum and then in Europe, does Eden ever ask about her or try to reach her?

I feel like Dan Gauthier's Kevin is in a similar boat with Laurence Lau's Jamie (AW).  They both played a completely new iteration of the part, but their charm made their characters appealing.   Stephen Yate's Jamie (and those cutoff shorts that are forever burned in my memory) was my favorite because he was the most like male-version of Rachel; a little neurotic, a little artsy, driven by jealousy.  So, when Larry Lau came on as Dr. Jamie it seemed like a totally different character.

14 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

Wasn't there a brief time when another actress played just Vicky between Ellen Wheeler and Anne Heche?

Yes, Rhonda Lewin, September 23, 1986 - December 29, 1986, the Vicky who almost slept with her uncle

11 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

How many Kevins were there? 

According to Soap Central, it was an even dozen

Morgan K. Melis (1976 to 1982), Chris Cunningham (1982), Jonathan Brandis (1982), Ryan Janis (1983 to 1990), Matthew Vipond (1990), Joey Thrower (1990 to 1992), Kirk Geiger (1992 to October 17, 1994), Jack Armstrong (1994 to 1995), Ken Kenitzer (1995), Kevin Stapleton (January 1996 to April 1998), Timothy Gibbs (April 1998 to March 2001), and Dan Gauthier (June 27, 2003 to November 2010)

11 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

The casting of Natalie is the one they seemed to get right from the start.

Unless you consider the genetic likelihood of fraternal twins where one is blonde and one is ginger, but given their nontraditional gestation and insemination, I'll let them get away it 

I think it is interesting that Erika was an actual (wealthy) housewife who consciously wanted to be famous.  When she talks about Erika Jayne as "a project", it seems cool that she had to find Mikey and hire her whole crew from nothing, given that she was a Pasadena lawyer's wife.  I don't think you could give $35,000.00 to just any lady from Pasadena and they would become a star.  I've lived in LA for decades but I don't know where I would get a custom vinyl catsuit or hire someone to produce beats for my own dance track?  However, what drove her to be a pop star at 35 is also what makes her unapproachable now.  There is so much artifice that it is difficult for her to appear sincere. 

When she said about Teddi, "that's not what she told me in my chapel" I cracked up as I do every time she sips champagne for emphasis.   In that way, she reminds me of Sheree, she is better in confessionals than with the other women.  Who could forget Sheree post-who-gonna-check-me-boo, when she asked, "whatever happened to customer service?"

I don't get Tom, Erika's husband.  They introduce him as the guy from the Erin Brockovich trial, but Edward Masry is who is portrayed in the movie by Albert Finey, and he is the one locally who became famous for the trial.  So who is Tom?

Also, I've read the gossip but I don't put any stock either Erika or Kyle trying to avoid discussing their husband's lawsuits because those are both businesses with big liabilities and I would bet that there is some constant civil action against either of them.  I can believe PK and Dorit live strictly on credit and with one lost payment the whole charade goes up in flames.  But Tom and Mauricio seem solidly rich.  And then Lisa and Harry (Freakin) Hamlin probably bought that house in Beverly Hills twenty years and they could live off the equity if all else fails. 

Obviously, there were a million actors who played either Tom Hughes or Kevin Buchanan.  And, there are a few thousand more who will play Kyle Abbott.  However, I'm fascinated by the parts that got quickly recast numerous times, like Daniel Romalotti (3 adult actors on Y&R), Sharon Newman(4 actors on Y&R) or Dawn Winthrop (4 actors on GH).  As I recall, one of the Daniels never made it to air and SOD didn't have a picture to publish for one of the Dawns because she was replaced so fast.  I guess with Dawn they threw in the towel once Gloria Monty reappeared.  However, I wonder why shows persist with characters who need to be recast more than once in their first year.  I can't think of other examples, (and it may have been a luxury of that time in soap production), but early frequent recasts seem like a soap history staple  

I don't know, there are a lot of episodes left in the season and every year you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I think Vangie's Snatch Game is a great example.  Ru mentioned that she auditioned with Latoya Jackson.  I'm sure it was very funny on video, but who knew that she wouldn't do it when it came time for the show?

I'm interested in Nina West.  The other queens seem to know her because she has done drag for years.  I appreciated that she changed her padding based on the judges (I wonder how difficult it is to pad differently once the dresses have been fitted?).  However, her paint is so weird, especially when she makes her lips into a scowl.  I get that she is going for camp rather than fish, but that makeup is ragged.  It makes me wish for earlier seasons when Anastasia of Beverly Hills came in to teach them how to do eyebrows or Charo taught them how to walk. 

Since season 7 everyone is expected to show up fully formed, I like when people like Alyssa come in to give actual advice rather than just using obtuse language like "step your !@#$%^&*] up."  I think Evie and Silky would benefit from learning more about makeup, or at least alternates to the only way that they know how to make themselves up.

1 minute ago, Wendy said:

was it ever established that Grant had more kids besides Madeleine and Courtney

I would bet it was never established that CC only had one sibling,  there could have been Grant, CC, Bibi, Deedee, and EE Capwell(named for the poet).

5 minutes ago, Wendy said:

And I think the Dobsons knew they goofed, hence bringing on drippy Katrina to be the "new Kelly" to ED's Kelly suddenly trying to be wise and "Eden-ish". It was a mess.

I don't pretend to know what the Dobson's motives were, but I think it was a mistake not to relay more on Grant's (CC's brother) side of the family rather than keep recasting Capwell kids and finding the various long lost children of CC.  Eileen could have been Courtney and Madeline Capwell's older sister.

After posting in the recast thread it got me thinking about Kelly Capwell.

Robin Wright's Kelly was an unevolved ingenue just there to be saved by men.  Her Kelly had very little personality until she met Pearl.  She and Eden were like two princesses in a castle and neither was jealous or envious of the other.  I just re-watched the episodes after Joe dies, and Eden tags along while Marcello tries to therapize Kelly in the tropics.  Eden is much more concerned about the threat of Marcello than she is with Kelly's weakened emotional state.  In fact, I don't recall one scene of them alone together consoling each other. Then we get the first re-cast and during the Jeffrey/TJ period, Kelly is still just a pawn in a plot to be saved every few months from sure death.

Carrington plays the dynamic with Eden and in my opinion, really knocks it out of the park when playing with Roscoe Born.   Playing against Roscoe as Quinn pretending to be Robert, Carrington never seemed dumb.  In fact, she was the only one who could tell the difference between the two brothers.  Then, Eileen is cast and Kelly becomes oddly interested in Capwell Industries, Cruz, and a few murders before ending up with Conner.

It is weird that Kelly never had a kid or a career.  She never had a specialization.  She was never consulted on the family business.  I think CC valued Ted's advice more than Kelly.  It just seems like if they were going to lay the future of SB on Kelly after Eden left than they hadn't set her up independent enough to carry the mantle.  Besides Robert Barr's house, I can't think of a significant period of time when she didn't live in her father's mansion.  Eden was the apple of CC's eye, Mason was the runt, Ted was the fun-loving younger brother, and Kelly lacked a distinct personality. 

I would submit that Gina, CC, Ted, and Warren were redefined by their recasts, but Kelly remained ill-defined no matter who played her.