carolineg

31 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

Oh, see, we've got to a better place & even if not, we can laugh at it! In common, in like: WN, LR, RKK, VM I guess, DH, ED, ... It's okay that you don't like Crystal as a lot of us do & we've got her covered. They really did make it the Carly show. And, people used to whine her name, KerLEeeee, it would set my teeth on edge. Stacy is better at Susan than she is at Kristen, which is strange. I think it's a disservice to the character & the fans, just like having RS & LD stand in for Vivian for awhile. Not cool with that, not copasetic. I was fine with Cady McClain & I am prepared for a Hope recast. I don't know if anyone cares anymore that something could be a disservice to a character.

I think Bo/Carly got some great writing and the coupling was set up well. Carly was just suddenly everywhere all the time! Although I think 1992 was an awful year for Days.  Aside from being the Carly show, there was bratty, new, Carrie, the John/Romulus plot, the Hawk/Jen/Jack thing, Bo being gone, bad teens (Faith/Tanner), Roman undercover as Mrs. Doubtfire, Kayla/Shane, etc. etc. etc.  Yuck!  It didn't ramp up until Izzy B croaked and Stella chucked Marlena into a pit.  I know there were major behind the scenes changes but it's so hard to watch overall.  The show turned it around quick, by Feb 93 things are happening and gelling.

Stacy is better as Susan and that's not a weird take.  Although the writing for her Kristen has been bonkers-Eileen can walk in and it all makes sense.  It's a very stark difference.  

Kristen probably belongs in the thread of characters that can't be recast just because the original actress is so iconic and tied to the role.  

That's how I feel about Brenda on GH.  You could recast because it's been so long and you could find someone, but no matter how good they are my affection is more for the actress in the role than the actual role, you know?

22 minutes ago, Vee said:

My assumption is that Bo being back and their being off together is the perfect vehicle to keep Hope off-contract and largely offscreen except for any return engagements KA might entertain in future. It's the only good excuse and it worked well for Sami and E.J. when he was finally resurrected but they hadn't yet recast.

I mean it's definitely better than Hope can't make this or that major event because her plane couldn't take off due to bad weather lol

1 minute ago, Wendy said:

I could see this if not for Susan Seaforth Hayes' tweet about the kids being in trouble, etc. Makes me wonder if Doug and Julie will be involved. The wording doesn't sound like a dream. But with Ron, who the hell knows?

I didn't see SSH's tweet, so I was just guessing.  Since the whole Christmas movie was Will's story I just thought a fake out was a possibility.  I do think the show will bring Bo back, but I do think a lot depends on what KA/PR are willing to do for Days in the future. 

9 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Am I seeing chemistry between Nancy and Clyde? 😂

And as for Jen hugging Gwen...

I didn't mind Nancy/Clyde............either.  

18 minutes ago, Vee said:

I seriously doubt they are promoting a spinoff with Bo and Hope as the stars only for it turn out the incredibly popular supercouple lead is still dead.

They could make it all Hope's dream or something silly like that.  I wouldn't rule it out.  It's Ron

4 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

You're not the first J/M fan to feel that way about me! I put both J/M & Bo/Hope fans off because I'm not with them in the great campaigns of getting their two back together. I was a huge Roman/Marlena fan & I still wonder what Chris is doing serving chowder at the pub. But, I was both a fan of Bo & Billie (Love Lisa Rinna.) and of Bo & Carly (Crys is divine.). I am always attentive if Marlena is being kept prisoner whether it's in a cage, or a hole in what looks like a warehouse (Stella, anyone?) or the Paris underground or that quaint set-up for prisoner & guard, the secret room. No, I don't think they should have SH do even Kristen, much less Susan. I tried to like her. Trying wasn't good enough. SH always throws me momentarily because I think Susan (seaforth) Hayes. Yes, I'm a major Doug & Julie fan. My father (DOOL was a family affair growing up.) and I both had crushes on Julie back in 1968! And, I will admit that I do not have bad feelings toward Brenda - and I really like VM - but, no, sorry not a fan.

Ha! Ha!  I don't care if you don't like John/Marlena lol and I will accept you like VM, but not Brenda.  I am not into campaigns and silly nonsense like that.  I loved WN's Roman/Marlena so much!  Especially their early stuff.  I just ended up liking John/Marlena better through the years because I loved the affair and think they have better romantic chemistry.  The show did WN dirty as Roman in the 90's and if WN showed up as Roman tomorrow and JT showed up as Chris K.  I would not even care or question it.   I loved LR's Billie and RKK's Bo as well.  I did not like Carly or Carly/Bo or CC (sorry).   I really hated the early 90's Carly show.

Anyhow, I think Stacy does okay with Susan.  Her Kristen is just very weak.  ED just walks in for a few scenes and owns the character and I think it's a disservice to Stacy to flip them back and forth.  

41 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

I am not a John/Marlena fan so I just had a totally different perspective on what was a big deal event to you. To me, not so much. And, when it comes to the 5 siblings, I cannot argue that it wasn't a stunt. Ha! That would be a laugh. Definitely a stunt, definitely wacky, fer shure. It wasn't something that was calculated if what ED says about how it came about is true. She says that they were going to hire someone to play this one character they had in mind, Susan Banks, and without really thinking about it, she said, "Why don't you let me play that?" So, she sort of baptized the start. I think once JER saw her actually do Susan that then his imagination started to swirl. And, all told, it worked for me in the final analysis because of the execution. That's not something I usually say about JER stuff, but this time they had it nailed. 'Never seen anything like it.

We can't be friends lol.  I am the biggest John/Marlena fan on this board lol.   And also Brenda Barrett's biggest fan so if you don't like her either-we can never speak again 🤣 Just Kidding of course!

I do really like Kristen/ED.   I am so glad Eileen finally got something meaty to do. I think the Susan idea was fantastic.  I just didn't like the "look at how talented ED can be" shtick.  Not that's she's not the most talented actress ever on Days most likely, it just felt like too much.   That being said the story is very watchable.  I thought the real couple of the story was Kristen/Marlena.  DH/ED work so well, even now, as rivals.  The Secret Room stuff is golden.  I just think I preferred Aremid and Maison Blanche because of their gothic undertones and so much of the cast being involved.  But, again, the Kristen/Susan/Banks story is better than most of what we got the next 25 years.  Do you like SH as Kristen/Susan?

51 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

I wouldn't make Bo the lone example.  He'd be but one of many, many examples.  But someone has got to draw a line somewhere.  Maybe, if you can't draw the line at Bo Brady, we'll have to draw it at someone else, but we have. To draw. The line.

So, now we're suggesting turning Kayla Brady into a liar in order to justify bringing yet another character back from the dead on this godforsaken show?  I'm sorry, but as someone who CHERISHED Steve and Kayla's romance BITD, I find that proposition to be just as insulting as bringing Bo back from the dead in the first place.  No way would I ever believe or accept that someone like Kayla would put her loved ones through that much pain.  IDC that she lied for the ISA or that letting others know the truth would have been dangerous.  It's still bullshit.

 

So, DAYS should just go on being the silly, ungrounded mess that it is and has been since I-can't-remember-when, instead of spending what is likely its' (and soaps overall) final days with some dignity and intelligence reattached?  If you follow that line of thinking, then Claire Labine should never have tried to re-ground GH after it had spent over a decade being a mixture of action/adventure and sci-fi stories; and Michael Malone and Josh Griffith shouldn't have tried to bring back socially relevant stories to OLTL in the '90's after the show had spent the better part of the previous decades telling wonked-out tales about exploding wedding cakes, absorbable poisons and underground cities.  (And I hated watching much of Malone & Griffith's work on OLTL, so you know I'm pissed if I've gotta sit here and hold them up as good examples of anything!)

And if I hear that phrase "(not the) hill to die on" one more time from anyone....  Note to all apathetic millennials out there, who'd rather stand in the corners and judge the rest of us for fighting (and for compromising when we have to) than put on their big boy or big girl pants and get on with the business of adulting: every hill is a hill worth dying on, okay?

 

Well, you obviously feel strongly on this and I mostly agree with you on every other topic, so I will just address what you replied to me on.  I don't have a problem with Bo being brought back at all.  Not a bit. At this point, we don't even know he's not still dead and making ghostly appearances or how this will play out on screen.  Now, there are probably 20 plus characters on Days that should have stayed dead throughout the years.  Everyone comes back on Days and many shouldn't.   That is what makes it a joke-not Bo being brought back specifically IMO.

As far as Kayla being a liar?  She's already bent a few rules as chief of staff.  She was in on the Hattie/Marlena switch when Belle was going to use the DNR after Marlena was shot, so she's not above this.  Again, without knowing if/how Bo's alive it is just speculation on my part.

Days is an ungrounded mess under RC.  RC is writing Beyond Salem.  I wouldn't expect anything less.  If there was a different team on Days or Beyond Salem I would be very open to a more grounded show.  I am not excusing the shows faults,  I make fun of them often, but I don't expect a massive change in tone on Beyond Salem.

So I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.  I honestly don't feel that strongly about it being terribly detrimental to Days as a whole or a spin off series.  In fact, I always assume Bo would end up alive in the end.  Anyway, I just want to clarify my opinions on this a little better.  I definitely see where you and others are coming from and I can't say there aren't some really great points made.  Who knows?  In July, I may come back and tell you everything you said was spot on and I am stupid and wrong🤣

@TonksadoraI'll move my response to your post in the Best year thread to here to not derail that thread with my ramblings. 

I agree about the Kristen/Susan sex stuff, but I think it was played as John doesn't love Kristen and that's why he can't tell the difference.  It was used as wacky hijinks instead of a deceptive sexual assault and made John look dumb.

Anyway, outside of all that the John/Marlena reunion wasn't even that good lol.  I was waiting since approx. 1991 for that to happen and John/Marlena didn't even really talk about anything.  Sure the affair and Roman got named dropped, but John didn't seem that devastated at losing a child and a wife and proposed to Marlena hours later.  It was unsatisfying and so was the aftermath of bringing Roman in.  Even the Kristen/Susan/Banks siblings seem to be done just to up the wacky factor.  And while I loved the suspense of the initial Susan/Kristen switch all those siblings just seemed like an Emmy reel for ED and something for her to do while she burnt out the rest of her contract that she wasn't renewing.  So, overall, while I thought the initial story was good-I wasn't into the ending and the extra siblings the show added just to add.

13 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

I would say that John being dumbed down is a regular event, although, sure, some times can be worse than others. Similarly, I would say it's not shocking seeing Marlena as self-sacrificing or even as Little Miss Goody Two Shoes. I think it's in her DNA. The lady is hard-wired, often to her detriment as people think she is just too good to be true. Me, I always bought her. She seemed consistent & true & there were always throughlines.

I'm not known for liking JER's work after he became a solo HW, but I could credit Carrie/Austin/Sami and 5 Siblings.

This is all very true, but John was dumbed down to the point he couldn't tell the difference between two people while sleeping with them, he didn't realize Kristen wasn't pregnant even when she lived with him and shared a bed, and was oblivious to Marlena swooning at him the minute he walking in the room.  It was Austin level stupidity.  And I know we aren't supposed to think John is dumb as viewers.  

Marlena being self-sacrificing is a throughline for her, but, again, we were at the point where she was moping around alone waiting? hoping? John would catch a clue about Kristen.  At what point does being self-sacrificing do more harm than good?  That's where I think Marlena was at in 1997.  She knew Kristen was evil and lying to John, she knew John loved her, but helped drag everything along for reason after reason which wasn't helpful to anyone in the situation and actually made Kristen more crazy and evil lol. 

I am probably drifting this thread into the Classic Days thread territory, so I will just say I think 1996 on Days works much better than 1997.  1996 I can't think of a story I didn't like.  I even liked the kooky Aremid characters.  I am sure I am forgetting some C plot that was bad, but the only thing I thought wasn't great was Bo/Hope's stories.  1997 had Kristen/Susan et all and the big endings to all the major stories throughout JER's run, but the show was terrible in the last 3-4 months of that year.  Fauxman, the Jungle story, Hope/John teasers, Kristen doing a whole lot of nothing, Jack/Jen/Circus, etc.  But that's my opinion.  I feel like GH and Days were the two strongest soaps in 1996 from my standpoint.

3 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

 

@carolineg Speaking of the best of JER, I may hold a minority position because his best to me is by far the '5 siblings of Kristen Blake'. You can't beat Kristen, Susan Banks, Sister Mary Moira, Penelope & of course Tomas. JER has an assist from Eileen Davidson.

 

I don't think the Kristen/Susan story was bad, but 5 was a lot of characters for ED to play and very silly at the end.   Kristen initially turning to evil, deceiving John, her rivalry with Marlena, and her teaming up with Stefano was all good.  By the time the story reached it's climax John was dumbed down really bad, Marlena became the most self-sacrificing person in the world, and it was all a little too wacky for me.   1997 starts off awesome, but everything fizzles out after the main stories reach their conclusion and we get to Roman's return and Hope/John's trip to the jungle It's absolutely a story I have watched more than once, but if I had to go with my favorite stories of that era I would choose:

1. Aremid

2. Maison Blanche

3. Carrie/Austin/Sami

3. Paris

4. Kristen/Susan

5. The Possession

3 minutes ago, te. said:

At one point you just need to decide that you're not going to undo anymore deaths no matter how tempting it is. They can't change past decisions, but they can control future ones. I mean, they could've brought back Addie in the 80s to create a storyline for Doug/Julie and wouldn't Hope have been thrilled to see her mother back? But thank God they didn't.

Again, I just don't think that logic fits Days.  They are re-doing a 30 year old story about devil Possession.  I don't think the current viewers of Days are going to be shocked Bo is alive.  That is on brand for the soap they are watching.  

In the more grounded early 80's on Days of course it wouldn't make sense for the show, but this show hasn't been grounded for about 40 years.  

1 minute ago, Vee said:

Exactly. It's a little late to start grounding DAYS in reality. And even if you did reinvent the show, I wouldn't start by sealing this pointless death in concrete. AMC had the right idea when it resurrected several key people before going off ABC, then clean slated a ton of the show to reinvent it on Hulu. They had much more room to grow.

100%.  Even if the show wanted to revamp, Bo's death is not the hill to die on for that movement.  Viewers aren't going to be upset Bo's alive lol.

31 minutes ago, te. said:

Bo's death should be permanent, just like deaths that aren't consciously ambigious need to be. Sorry "Bope" fans, but soaps need to make deaths matter.

On Days?  A show that killed off half their cast and brought them back to live on an island that resembled Salem? Where entire groups of irrevocably dead people have been brought back to life by a mad scientist?  I totally understand your point and would agree for most soaps, but someone as iconic as Bo shouldn't be the lone example of THIS death on days matters.  Especially when IMO it can be fairly easy to explain away.  Kayla was the one that confirmed the brain tumor and she could have lied for Bo/the ISA for whatever reason and it was too dangerous too tell Hope and the kids.

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

Didn't Bo die of pancreatic cancer? Like his half-sister Izzy B. Whatever he died off. I don't mind Bo's resurrection. In the Days universe people come back to life all the time.

I am pretty sure Bo died of brain cancer.  But I do think he had something wrong with his pancreas or liver at some point.  lol  I think Chelsea gave him some of her liver/pancreas as a transplant.

29 minutes ago, Khan said:

Just one of many reasons why DAYS has become such a joke.  How can you get the audience to invest in anything emotionally when they know even on-screen deaths can be reversed?  Ron Carlivati might not want us to take it all seriously, but we still have to know there are ground rules.

I mean, he's like one of the only characters that hasn't been presumed dead multiple times, so I don't mind it.  I think if played right by RC (which probably won't happen) it could be a great way to have Hope/Bo off the canvas but for a reason.  Bo's death had to be faked because he's undercover or hiding or something and Hope has to be on the run with him.  If you can't have the actors full time it's a decent excuse for them to be gone for now.

3 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

Agree 100%.  Aremid and all the rest was mid-90's DAYS at its finest

Outside of silly fangirl John/Marlena stories that I love like the Affair, I think Aremid was easily the best story to come out of JER's era.  It just really involved the entire cast, so many different things were happening, it had so many soapy elements and it was ridiculous, but not campy and silly like most of JER's stories.  It was the perfect blend of outlandish circumstances played very seriously.  The Possession got all the glory, but Aremid was really the best story JER wrote followed by Maison Blanche, which I also loved.

6 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

I'd rather see Jason as Shawn.

Me too.  Honestly, it's a shame KS is on GH because I wouldn't mind a silly KS/JC Days reunion on the spinoff.

This sounds like a great way to explain Hope's absences.   She wasn't just having awful luck with planes and bad weather-she's on a super secret mission with non-dead Bo.  And Bo/Hope can continue being in hiding or absent on the main show and it would make sense.  At least that's where I would go with it.

9 minutes ago, wingwalker said:

I suspected some sort of Peacock special was on its way due to the most recent casting calls. Very happy to see we are getting more Beyond Salem. 

The inevitability that Bo and Hope are probably going to share most of their screen time with Ben and Ciara kills that excitement of their return. 

I assume that more cast will be announced later. Will and Sonny were one the most popular parts of the last one. You would think they'd try to have them involved in some way again. 

 

 

 

I would hope Shawn gets to see his parents or will they try to get Jason Cook in the spirit of these peacock specials?

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Interesting!

Well, you know how I feel: any combination of characters killed off would be fine with me.  Aside from Doug, John, Julie and Marlena, everyone on this show is expendable now.  And I mean everyone.

Yeah.  I agree.  I don't mind Patch and Kayla, but they really don't do anything.  I like the young adult crew of Johnny, Chanel, Allie, Tripp, tbh.  I don't get the big deal about Will/Sonny, but I don't hate them either.  A lot of the cast I am indifferent about and don't care whether they stay or go.

2 hours ago, Bright Eyes said:

To be fair, the cast size comparisons are noticeably different.

Absolutely.  GH has a huge cast, a lot of which we can do without.  The difference between Days and GH is there are characters on Days I don't like, but are important or just need a break.  GH has so many cast members that could disappear and I wouldn't even notice.  For both soaps there are obvious characters that should be back and aren't.  On Days there are a lot of characters that are glaringly missing from things (Hope, Stephanie, Sami, Lucas, Carrie, etc)

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

LOL!  Well, then, who would YOU want this hypothetical "Salem Sniper" to take out?

Easy. Ava, Rafe, Jake, Gwen, Leo, Kristen and Susan to start.  But I would send others out of town because they are fearful or sad like Gabi, Sarah, Xander, and Ben and Ciara.   Days doesn't have as much dead weight as GH because I could think of a lot more people to get rid of on that show lol.

Gwen's dress is pretty.  

If they switch out Abby's again I will be so over it.  Just freaking wait til Kate Mansi is available full time.  Marci has grown on me slightly, but she's not Abby to me.  

I am not against a serial killer story starting, but they will end up not killing the people I want I am sure.

2 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

  

Something about that scene is so unintentionally funny to me.  The Dr. having to double check the pregnancy test box to make sure the plus sign means pregnant, the dramatic music, and the way DH gasps and pauses in between saying "I..m...pre...g...nant is hilarious every time I see it.

I don't know how anyone could feel sympathy for Craig.  Numerous people have warned him about Leo.  Strongly warned him.  Not a single person thinks this marriage is a good idea.  Like I said, I was hoping Leo had changed for something different and unexpected, but I don't know how you feel bad for Craig in this. 

Frankly I don't feel bad for Xander either.  He's pity marrying Gwen because he can't have Sarah.  He deserves for this to blow up as well.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

No, you're not the only one, lol.  If anything, I wanted this to be one time when Leo WASN'T scheming, if only because he could feel justified in getting revenge against Chad, Sonny and everyone else for messing up his one, real chance at happiness.

Agreed.  Again, I don't really care about Leo, but there are definite layers there with his abusive father and finding love with an older man and a chance at redemption.  But, nope, just scheming away for money..

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Frankly, I don't see how.  Perhaps, if Will were to die off-screen, or if Sonny were to receive a "Dear John" letter from him, I could see Sonny turning to drugs or drink in order to numb the pain.  But you know what would be weird?  If it were Leo, of ALL people, to help Sonny beat his addiction and get sober again.  It'd show a surprisingly human side to Leo's nature and possibly lay the groundwork for Leo/Sonny Part Deux.

ZT played Sonny really hopped up today. I could see a progression of Sonny staying in Salem and being lonely without Will and turning to booze at first to relax and then it escalates.  I wouldn't mind an addiction story and if Chandler isn't available I wouldn't be against Leo having a heart and helping.  I also want some Leo and John scenes.  I liked them when he thought Leo was his son. 

Am I the only one who actually wanted Leo not to be scheming?  I am not a Leo fan and could care less about him, but this all feels so predictable.   I don't think this is leading to Leo/Sonny- I think it might be leading to an addiction story with Sonny.