katie_9918

I also had an idea (totally separate from my Hope/Justin idea) where just prior to Hope's departure, she and Alan somehow fell into bed with each other (both of them probably drunk and surprisingly in a mournful, melancholy mood over the end of their marriage at the same time), but it doesn't change anything and Hope leaves immediately for New York with Alan-Michael.

Four months later, Justin tells Mike that while he and Samantha are in New York for a medical conference, he'll drop in on Hope and Alan-Michael for a visit.

Bert: "Oh, Justin, I wish you wouldn't do that. I just spoke to Hope last night and she's planning to bring Alan-Michael home for a visit."

(In the Springfield of my dreams, Bill Bauer stayed in town after returning from the dead in 1977 and he and Bert finally reconciled and started to make a real go of their marriage for the first time throughout 1978.)

Bill: "I thought she was in the middle of a job?" He and Mike are taken aback.

Bert: "She said she's simply got some loose ends to tie up and she'll be here once they are."

Ed, of course, is the last to find out because he's always the last Bauer to find anything out in the '70s and '80s.

It turns out Hope got pregnant during that "grief?" (not the best way to describe it) sex and once she finds out, she thought about the whole sordid mess over Phillip and decides that only the truth is acceptable in this case. So she returns to Springfield with a young child Alan-Michael (not more than seven or eight years old) and faces Alan head-on with the news.

Quinton and Nola could have headlined part of that San Cristobel mess with a dig there and Nola could have provided a play-by-play snark about how of course all roads lead back to REVA Shayne. And that's just for starters.

I continue to think that the snarky, sarcastic Hope of 1983 was being placed in a position to remain in Alan's life as a constant thorn in his side. One moment she plays the adoring, supportive wife when she had to and the next she was telling Alan off, reminding him that she could blow his good public image out of the water any time she wanted. I think Elvera played that even better than the more naive Hope earlier. Whoever cut her loose deserves a special place in soap hell, because it could have been fun to watch, especially if Alan sulked while being forced to watch her move on (even though he'd seemed to have moved on first).

I also think Hope could have joined forces with Alexandra and would have also provided some continuity regarding how both Alan and Alex were shaped by the abuse they suffered at their father's hands. Alex's original story made it seem like she was victimized by both Brandon and Alan, when the past had already confirmed that Alan was also victimized.

And then in spite of all that had passed between Alan and Hope, she could share her own goodbye with Alan similar to the one Alan and Alex shared. They share a son and Hope would still be close with Phillip and the off-screen Amanda and the exes have a bond that can't be severed no matter how much they both want to sever it.

And because Alexandra tended to watch over Alan's children more than she didn't, she and Hope would remain close after Alan's exile and they would also bond over the fact that they don't regret taking Alan down, but they do feel a measure of guilt and sadness over it.

I always thought had Justin been kept around, it could have been rather easy to put Justin and Hope together, whether short-term or long-term. Justin had a young daughter he desperately needed a mother figure for and Phillip had mostly liked Hope so he probably wouldn't object. And Hope had always had a healthy amount of respect for Justin and Mike would probably jump for joy at Hope getting involved with someone who wasn't Alan.

Hell, Hope and Justin could become engaged just in time for Alan's 1986 return!

Refresh my memory, exactly what did we get instead of something like that?

I've talked to them some a little and they were always friendly, no ego like many on YT. It sucks that this happened to them.

I'm glad I saved their GL stuff. I wish I'd saved the Peyton Place...I never even got around to watching it.

I've done so as well and you're absolutely right. I wish I had their email or something just to keep in touch and talk some more about the early '80s.

I'm friendly with some of the other uploaded (not terribly much so) and you're right about CG's lack of ego. I appreciate how much they like talking about the show as well as upload it.

Damn, this sucks!! 😡

It could be some of the other stuff on the same account.

This is extremely vexing, whatever the reason.

I think this storyline is my first memory of watching GL on my own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW_knfRP6sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HstJy4nEHVM

Truly awesome.

It's not racism unless it's concrete.

Quite honestly, it's racism if a majority decides it is, no matter the original intent. Nine times out of ten the majority is right, but what happens to that person one time out of ten? Generally, bad things that are not deserved.

Oh I agree. That was the one scene that I didn't like Tony, but I blame the writers more than the character.

I had no problem believing Tony would do something like that. I was only sorry seeing how many fans he seemed to have.

Tony Santos' only saving grace was his brother the priest, which was promptly squandered when Tony tried to rape Marah.

I don't care how "hot" PAS or JV were, both portrayed violent criminals. Neither should have been paired up (especially with legacy characters) until AFTER overcoming those disgusting violent tendencies.

I preferred Catalina/Tony and Marah/Sam.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that Tony was a thug from day one who never should have been paired with anyone unless she truly changed him for the better, which spoiled entitled Marah never did.

One of the worst and most debasing conversations I ever witnessed on GL (and I have no desire to go looking for it on YT for a possible link) was Michelle and Marah discussing being "Santos women."

Horrifying and disgusting, that a Bauer and a Lewis would be so debased.

You what? What board are you on? When has what anyone on this board thinks about anything ever stopped me? I feel how I feel and I don't give a [!@#$%^&*] what anyone thinks.

What Bill Cosby did has nothing to do with this board, and how this board processes opinion has nothing to do with what Bill Cosby did. I'm not here to talk about this board, I'm here to talk about the 20+ women who all have the same story about Bill Cosby. Feel free to take your thesis about Internet forums to the Cocktail Lounge, otherwise stick to the subject.

*raises hand*

I hate being grouped with ANG, but as what I've been told by many people a moderate conservative with liberal tendencies, I have been EXTREMELY hesitant to express some of my opinions and have (in most cases) been very careful when I did choose to express an unpopular opinion.

And I've still not been quite careful enough to avoid the "you sound like a bigot" nonsense. Which honestly hurt.

ETA: This Cosby situation is NOT one in which I deviate from most of you on. I want to make that clear. But there are other times that I am truly afraid that I won't explain myself well enough that you don't understand what I'm really saying or asking and will be labelled as such. I honestly try my best, because I know you're all intelligent, educated people, but I can honestly admit to some fear in posting even streams of conscienceness that bring me to better conclusions than I may have started out with.

I actually think the Labines could have worked out, or some combination of them and maybe Taggert, with a more supportive, better EP.

I disliked but tolerated the Santoses until they involved Bert's house in a thuggy mob shootout. After then, I wanted them all gone and would have considered Bauer-no-longer Michelle a necessary loss if it got rid of her in-laws (except Father Ray).

The Santoses gave the Bauers NO story. Michelle ceased being a Bauer and Rick and Meta were basically irrelevant, that was all. Unless of course Meta and Abby were brought out to sing Danny's praises and Rick was somehow unreasonable because he was concerned about his sister being married to a violent criminal from a family of professional violent criminals.

The only good thing about that Santos mediocrity was the Jesse and Drew coupling.

Tony was a disgusting piece of garbage.

I liked Father Ray and that was about it.

The less said about San Cristobel, other than the tortured relationship between Richard and Edmund, the better. Yet another showcase for REVA and CASSIE to be worshipped.

Unpopular opinion warning:

I agree that killing Maureen was stupid and short-sighted, but I'm so tired of hearing about it like it's the only thing that went wrong in the nineties. In my opinion, GL's wheels didn't come off until sometime between 1994-1996, when the whole thing was handed over to Reva (and to a lesser extent, Phillip and then Harley as well).

There was a lot of great stuff going on before, during, and after Maureen's death. Yes, it was cruel to get rid of her in such a fashion, but I thought some of it (maybe not the events leading up) was heartbreakingly true to life in that we all suffer tragedy and sometimes horrible things happen to people who don't deserve it and the repercussions were played out over the next several years.

But I do agree that Buzz was horrible and if it's true that Maureen was culled to make way for his worthless ass, THAT was the most stupid, unforgivable thing about the whole thing.

I don't know why Carl didn't like Nick, but he was too much of a self-righteous hypocrite for my taste until Nancy Bell's Susan Bates came along and made him bearable. By then, the writing was on the wall.

Yeah, I'm very glad to get to see this era too. I'd prefer to see the Dobsons material, as I think it is less dry and dated than Marland's work, it has more heart and feels less laborious (for instance, the repeated conversations about what a changed man Ross is always make me kind of roll my eyes), but I know most of that is gone, so this is good too. I'm glad to get to see more of the whole canvas buildup to the Diane and Joe murders, and as you said, some of the day-to-day of Kelly and Morgan. And more info on weird bits like Vanessa/Ed, and pairings I never knew about, like Mike/Trish. Plus I never knew they were still having Nola scheme to get Kelly at this point.

I really wish they hadn't fired Jane Eliot so abruptly, because she barely had the chance to play an actual character. You can tell this Carrie is an artifice.

There are also '92 clips still being posted, but I have a lot of bad memories of what JFP did to the show so those are tough for me to want to watch again, especially since most of the clips revolve around Nick, a character I disliked. And I feel like JFP's work has also dated significantly.

I've always felt that the saving grace of Jill Farren Phelps' era is the fact that that era was the last one that Springfield truly felt like a community. People on the periphery of other stories were still dropping in and there was a lot of overlap. That's probably more of a writing thing and it may very well have been a lingering effect thing from her predecessor, but once Laibson took over, it seems all the different plots were isolated from one another very quickly.

Of course, I'm also finding the Alan of this time fascinating. He's genuinely trying to turn over a new leaf, but there are still so many secrets he's keeping and he doesn't trust Hope enough to entrust those secrets to her, so they were as doomed as an in-character-with-no-real-growth Roger and Holly were in 1994.

Random observation: late 1996 as a whole seems pretty stale and boring. Annie never should have become the heavy so quickly. My sympathies are with her, and not Josh and Reva, despite the writers trying to make us sympathize with the lying emotional cheaters. A shame too. Josh had so much promise as his own character sans Reva for about a year there in 1994-1995. Sonni was my favorite of his wives for all that I don't actually remember that much about her.

I'm pretty ridiculously giddy about all these 1981 episodes hitting YT. I'm almost afraid to get TOO invested, because, you know, circumstances and all that could change at the drop of a hat. It would be REALLY fascinating to see Peter Simon in his first days as Ed. I think his earliest work as Ed that I've ever stumbled upon was sometime in '83.

The early days of Kelly and Morgan's wedding is fascinating to me as well. I saw a lot of their tortured pre-marriage stuff, and I know how it all ended, but I'm loving seeing some of the early marriage.

Seeing the wretched state of the last four standing (though B&B and DAYS aren't as bad off as Y&R and the perennially ridiculous-and-not-in-a-good-way GH are), I can't help but be thankful that GL still had a lot of goodwill going for it when it was canceled and the amount of material that's surfaced since then. Even Mike on YT is planning to go back and fill in full episodes around the years (1989-December 1994) for which he's only posted clips as yet.

Scott Hoxby guest-starring in an episode of Acapulco H.E.A.T. from around 1993. It's a Manchurian Candidate style plot.

He had the rug, but it wasn't as ridiculous as the one he had on GL a little later on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK2dQHU3Mro

I'm not sure why this isn't embedding properly.

Mike's uploading Christmas of '87 to his channel. I know it's already out there, but I figured I'd let everyone know.

I really like Sonni. In fact, I liked most of Josh's non-Reva love interests.

Seriously, why would ROSEANNE of all people make light of this situation?

Does she have NO EMPATHY at all?

I remember at the time they talked about the location shoot and how the interiors were done at the studio with chroma key backgrounds using video taped on location and that it was seamless.

I think Doug Marland spoke about how strong GL was when he took over (apart from no young people).

He didn't really drop any characters for quite a while.Who were the first to go?

The first that comes to my mind is Roger, but I think Zaslow had given notice well before Marland took over. I read somewhere (most likely this very thread and I'll bet the poster was Carl) that Marland had about four months to write Roger out.

Are these the episodes from the German DVD set?

I think they are.

It's still awesome of someone to put them all up for those who didn't or couldn't buy a region-free DVD player specifically for those DVDs.

*whistles innocently*

Yeah, no. Phillip returned to our screens long before Beth did and we didn't see him until the Lucy/Alan-Michael wedding in mid-1996.

Beth was the one who initiated divorce proceedings (not without cause) and we didn't see her until after she'd thoroughly traumatized Lizzie with an abusive relationship with Carl Warren.

Maybe they could have even thrown Vivian into the mix. Petronia Paley could have played the heck out of it!!

I could get on that train.

However, I really liked Charles Grant as well, so I would've been torn between watching Charles get hurt and watching Vivian and Cutter driving each other crazy.

She didn't say that. She just gave a very vague non-answer. At this point a lot of fans were unhappy because of Alan-Michael/Gilly and Tangie/Cutter not happening. But a lot of fans were unhappy with the show at this point, period.

Speaking of Gilly (and why do I keep forgetting to mention her?), I meant to include her in with the women Cutter had some chemistry with.

Speaking as someone who did like Lucy for the most part, I think it was terrible how they just planted her in Gilly's place in the battle for Spaulding. It kind of lost some meaning and oomph, given that Lucy had no idea who Roger was and Gilly had many reasons, both personal and professional, to want to see Roger twisting in the wind.

JFP really said that? I shouldn't be surprised, but for some reason I am.

That's one of the first and most destructive mistakes an EP/HW can really make. Yes, I understand that constant pandering to the audience can be just as destructive (see post-Joie Manny and the return of Brad Cole after we were finally rid of boring Richard for starters), but I really think that had someone listened to the audience in this case (the popularity of Tangie and Cutter), it could have really changed some things right up.

Personally, I actually did like Tangie with the Lewises and wish those relationships hadn't been dropped after she and Josh broke up, though I think the Tangie pairing was the last time Josh was actually relevant as a character on his own (or maybe right up to when Reva appeared in Amish country) rather than as one-half (the more "expendable" half from the show's POV) of Jeva.

I think he played some gangsterish type who had something on Irizarry's character. I can't remember what the name of the character was.

I don't remember the toupee article.