Mona Kane Croft

I know this is not the place for fan-fiction, and I'm not promoting that. But have you ever imagined scenes which would connect early AW characters with later characters? Perhaps characters so far apart in time, you had never really imagined them existing in the same world? And would there be a character who could provide a bridge between the earlier and the later? Here's one example: Pat and Lenore (who have stayed in contact over the years) decide to meet-up in Bay City. They go to lunch at a restaurant and, after a few minutes, Rachel and Felicia walk in. Rachel recognizes the two women, and . . . I'm not asking anyone to continue this scene. But have you ever imagined how early, fairly believable characters might interact with later characters who were more over the top? And could it be presented as real and believable, without resorting to cheap humor? For example: Marianne Randolph Halloway and Cass Winthrop? Mary Matthews and Felicia Gallant? John Randolph and Wallingford? Or was the reality of these characters (from different eras) simply too far apart for them to ever truly connect or exist in the same universe?

I believe she was around 16, but I'm pretty sure Russ was even younger when AW began. When Russ was sorased and Sam Groom assumed the role, it seemed that Russ jumped ahead of Alice in age. But as I said, I'm not sure that was ever really confirmed in the scripts.

You're correct here. Originally, Russ was considerably younger than Pat. When AW premiered, I believe Russ was in junior high school and Pat was in college. But when Russ returned from medical school as an adult, lots of fans assumed he was older than Pat. He certainly seemed older than Alice at that point. I'm not sure their exact birth order was ever mentioned in a script, after Russ was sorased, but I have read in soap history books that Russ was considered the oldest sibling. When I was watching AW in the 1970s, I sort of assumed Russ was the middle child. No reason for this except Beverly Penberthy played Pat as so mature, I thought Pat was the oldest. So the birth order is vague -- unless somebody can find it mentioned in a script.

And guess who's decision that was... Actually, Mary didn't lose her importance, her importance was taken from her.

Not picking on Donna, but quoting her just to reply. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. A slight rebuttal here, and not an argument at all. To those who don't see Mary as a good or archetypal matriarch such as Nancy Hughes, Bert Bauer, etc; it is important to remember that Harding Lemay did not like the character or even the idea of the traditional soap opera matriarch. So he severely minimized the character, reducing her screen time significantly, having Mary "out of town" often with little explanation, and he even attempted to fundamentally change Mary's personality by making her less likable. So to fans who saw Mary only during the Lemay years, I can understand why she seemed to be less important than Nancy, Bert, etc. That was because Lemay intentionally sabotaged the character. He didn't want the audience to like or appreciate her. I was lucky enough to watch AW during the earlier head-writing runs of Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, and Mary was written as a true traditional soap opera matriarch until Mr Lemay showed up. In fact, Mary was so similar to Nancy Hughes it was uncanny. Mary and Jim hosted family holidays, supported their children and other family members, and gave advice to nearly anyone who would listen. They were both extremely important characters who got lots of scenes and lots of screen time. I don't expect to change anyone's mind about Mary, but I just wanted to add some historical perspective to the discussion. Poor Virginia Dwyer was "put through the ringer" during her final few years on AW. Both the actress and the character suffered.

If I recall correctly, Mary liked Steve and supported his romance with Alice until around the time Steve married Rachel (between his marriages to Alice). At that point, Mary gave up on Steve and encouraged Alice to move on without him and date other men. Regarding Rachel -- Mary never really trusted Rachel, but tried to be supportive of Russ's marriage to her. When the family found out Jamie was not Russ's son and that Rachel had become pregnant by Steve Frame, Mary turned against Rachel vehemently and more or less grew to hate her. But there was a nice scene between Rachel and Mary in 1975, after Rachel was seeing Mac. The two women ran into one another in the hospital cafeteria, and had an uncomfortable but civil exchange. Alice walked in and joined the scene. After Rachel left, Mary commented to Alice that Rachel seemed to have changed since meeting Mac, and she hoped Rachel could finally find happiness. This was just a feew weeks before Mary died.

No. The house had been featured for several years by that point (1974). Robert designed the house while he was still living (and appearing) in/on Somerset. Thanks for the information. I'm happy Ms Dwyer wasn't omitted from AW's 10th anniversary episode. I do know she was often treated shabbily by Mr. Lemay and Mr Rauch.

Is it true that Mary Matthews does not appear in the wedding episode (and AW's 10th anniversary)? Although I was watching AW daily during that period, I unfortunately missed the wedding episode. I've seen reports online that Mary was said to be "out of town" for the wedding episode, and all of Mary's lines were transferred to Liz. Does anyone know if that is accurate. It is clear, Mary is not included in the wedding photo.

Interesting. You are likely correct, but I had almost forgotten about Kurt Landis. Now I'm wondering why Iris was at Alice and Steve's wedding. Iris was never close to Alice, although she quickly lost her animosity toward Alice after Alice and Steve reunited. But still, the two women never became friends. Maybe Iris attended the wedding because of Steve?? I remember Iris contracted with Frame Enterprises to build her house in Bay City. Could the wedding have taken place around the same time Steve was building Iris's new house? Otherwise, I haven't a clue why Iris would have attended that wedding -- unless Iris was already dating Russ at that point.

Yes for sure. Iris visited Millie Marbury in St Tropez for two different lengthy stays, and both were on camera. They did build a large set representing Millie's terrace on the coast, with a green-screen (chromakey) Mediterranean Sea behind it. This may have been the same set used years earlier as Steve Frame's terrace in St Croix, but you'd need to ask Paul Rauch to verify that. If my memory is correct, the first time Iris visited St Tropez was in 1978-79, just after she learned she was adopted and fled Bay City. McKenzie had several weeks off, and then Iris was reintroduced visiting Millie in the south of France. The second time was when McKenzie broke her shoulder, requiring another several weeks off, and again Iris was reintroduced in scenes from St Tropez. The stuff Harding Lemay wrote for Iris's scenes in St Tropez was very interesting. Most of it, character studies of jet-setting Americans living in Europe. Millie Marbury was a woman of approximately Iris's age who had long been married to a much older wealthy man. When her husband died, Millie took-up with a series of younger gold-digging men whom Iris called gigolos. Millie's current boy-toy was a curly-haired stud named Giorgio who spent much of his time on Millie's terrace wearing a Speedo. Millie was quite taken by Giorgio's charms, while Iris saw through his every move (and his vaguely European fake accent) -- often openly making fun of him and ridiculing him for his dependance on an older woman. Meanwhile in Bay City, middle-class Susan Matthews had returned to town and was troubled by memories of her long dead brother, Bill. Susan had several rather odd conversations with Liz about Bill, bringing Bill back into the consciencness of the audience. While back in St Tropez, Giorgio was exposed as being an American by Iris. Many of the viewers deduced that Giorgio was Bill Matthews back from the dead. I won't go into the details, but Bill Matthews stayed dead. Giorgio was not Bill. We will likely never know what Lemay had in mind originally. Any Lemay fans already know he would not have been a fan of a back from the dead plot. But had he finally decided to take the leap into that old soap opera trope?? And if so, why did Lemay change his mind after such an intriguing lead-up? So Iris's two visits to the south of France had the possibility to drive storyline for years. But as it turned out, they provided little more than a peak at the lives of wealthy American expats living in Europe. And I will admit, that was very very interesting stuff. . . Just a note -- Iris's first visit to St Tropez was definitely written by Harding Lemay. Her second visit was likely written by Tom King, the head-writer at that time.

At the time of Alice and Steve's second wedding, Iris was either dating Russ, or engaged to him. By the time Alice married that loser Ray Gordon, I think Iris and Russ had broken up. So not sure why Iris would have attended the Alice/Ray wedding, but perhaps she did. Iris maintained a close friendship with Russ, which was referenced often throughout the 1970s and again in 1988-89. And Iris was very close friends with Liz Matthews during the entire time Beverlee McKenzie was in the role. When Carmen Duncan played Iris, the friendship with Liz was completely forgotten and the two women had very few scenes together. Interestingly, Iris had very little interaction with either Alice or Pat (after her initial plot pitting her against Alice and Elliot) -- almost no interaction with the two Matthews sisters really. They just weren't in Iris's orbit, I suppose. Iris did have lots of scenes with John Randolph, because he was her attorney.

I think he was very good in films. But he wasn't prepared for the hard work of daytime. He was lovable as Jim Matthews, but he blundered his lines constantly. Have you seen the interview with Ariana Muenker, where she discusses Marlowe forgetting his lines?

Well, if they need to fill an hour slot, I'd rather they premiere two 30-minute soaps than one at 60-minutes. I truly don't think a soap that premieres in the 60-minute format would survive in this television landscape. Has any soap that premiered at 60-minutes ever been truly successful? I believe the longest lasting was probably Santa Barbara at around 5 years. And I wouldn't call 5 years a raging success for a daytime drama. I'm assuming the show will also stream on Paramount+, so that will help with its likelihood of success, right?? And may make up for some of the cost of production.

Almost unbelievable news! I just pray it will be a 30-minute show. I don't think the genre or the audience is strong enough for a new 60-minute soap to survive in 2024. Wishful casting thoughts are incredible. I'm excited to say the least!!

Julia was a complete retcon. She was never mentioned on AW until shortly before she started appearing.

My understanding is that NBC was in complete control of all the promos for it's soaps, and that may be why NBC Daytime's promos often seemed so disconnected from it's soap operas in terms of tone, style, and nearly everything else. So if that is true, then it is unlikely that P&G, the executive producers, etc. had much influence on this or any other promos.

It was strange to me, that Nikki didn't call her bodyguard over to hear what Seth was saying, as she was figuring things out. If Nikki now knows that Jordan is in town and has a physical description of her current appearance, I'd think she'd want her bodyguard to know it asap, so he could use that information to protect her. It seems like Nikki is hatching a plan to catch Jordan without including her bodyguard. That's nuts.

Wow, the way they expanded the Cory house set was amazing. And characters kept walking from room to room while the camera followed them. Great work, really! The dining room had been shown previously, but never in this way, with the entire set opened up with long shots. That's the kind of stuff Paul Rauch was very good at orchestrating. I was watching during this era, but I don't remember all that new set work. I do find it interesting they still did not show the front door or the staircase. Before Rauch left AW, they did begin to show the front door. And I believe the stairs were first seen during the Alma Rudder storyline. But the stairs were there one day and gone the next, as I recall. Was the Alma Rudder lunacy before or after Steve Frame returned?

So what's up with Seth? Today, he seemed like he was genuinely on Nikki's side. But later in scenes with Jordon, it looked like he was ready to spill the beans. Did I misunderstand something??

Wow, I do not remember that scene at all. Did they actually use Reinholt's photo or something? I need to see if I can find that on youtube.

I too liked the casting of David Canary as Steve. But he didn't work as Steve for two reasons: 1. The writing was so bad. And 2. Canary needed more direction on how to catch Steve's personality and essence. For example, Canary played Steve as loud and outgoing, often with a big smile on his face, but Steve's personality had always been brooding, quiet, and borderline sad. I would never have expected Canary to imitate George Reinholt, but Canary should have been coached on Steve's basic personality style. In my opinion, Canary played Steve like an entirely new character. Having said all that -- no one will ever convince me that David Canary was not capable of playing Steve Frame. Canary had the acting skills, but he simply needed more direction and (of course) better writing. I will also take a risk and admit that I actually enjoyed Linda Borgeson as Alice. This will seem like heresy to some, but I believe Borgeson's appearance and acting style was closer to Jacquie Courtney's than any of the other Alice recasts including Susan Harney. And I believe Borgeson was certainly the best of the Alice recasts. I am aware many fans believe she was the worst. But again -- with better writing, and had TPTB stuck with her, I believe Borgeson would have been accepted as Alice, and Canary as Steve.

Of course! When Lemay left AW in 1979 the show was populated with wonderful characters with so much potential -- the middle-class Matthews family, the wealthy Corys, the working-class Perrinis and Frames, and all the wonderful characters that surrounded them. Even if the new writers wanted to strengthen the storylines and plots, why in the world would they jettison so many of Lemay's beloved characters?? It was nuts, and led to the continued ratings decline for twenty-years.

I too have questioned Bell's decision to kill-off Jennifer Brooks. But I have a tendency to respect big decisions like that, if they are made by the show's creator, rather than later writers. Similarly, I fairly easily accepted Bell's decision to write-off Y&R's two original families, the Brooks' and the Fosters, only because that decision was made by Bill Bell himself. Had a later writer made those decisions, I would still be bitching about it 40 years later. Just as I still bitch about Lemay killing-off Mary Matthews, or the Bauers being minimized while Pam Long was head-writer, or the Martins being minimized every time Agnes Nixon came and went from All My Children, or the way the Hortons were minimized by every head-writer post-1983.

If multiple people were stopping Dwyer to ask for autographs as she entered a small restaurant, perhaps Lemay should have recognized something important about that, rather than using it as a way to ridicule the obviously very popular actress. Dear God in Heaven!! Hey Countess -- you and I are soap opera friends now. Seriously, we are. We will occasionally disagree, and perhaps even have a few serious disagreements. Frankly, I believe about 85% of the time, we AGREE. But my intent is to always respond to your posts with respect, and no ridicule. I am not a member of the Nasty-Girls Club. LOL. I'm sure this is all understood, but I just wanted to verify.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I assumed you were referencing Lemay's book. So, was this from her daytime magazine interview or something like that? Maybe I even misunderstood your entire post. But does throwing things out of her closet have anything do to with Dwyer's acting skills? Again, Donna -- I may have misunderstood your post, and maybe even misinterpreted your intent.