DramatistDreamer

During the Marland years, I kept thinking how big the cast was. In every episode you really had a community feeling. In most scenes many characters passed by, saying few or more lines...and in the emotional scenes, of course much quieter. I didnt think of anyone being on frontburner more than others. Also, some recurring characters could come back in all of a sudden after a long while.

ATWT camera crew perfected the art of that roving camera. I loved how it would track certain characters and as it would move on to another character(s), you'd hear snippets of conversation in the meantime before settling onto other characters. This was really effective in scenes with multiple characters in the same space, like the Mona Lisa or the hospital cafeteria or even the Hughes' living room. I really only remember this being done during the 80s.

I've read a few grumblings about the Snyders monopolizing storyline during the Marland tenure and he seemed to love writing for Lisa Brown, in particular so I can understand where some of the grumbling might come from especially from people who were not fans of the Snyders but I thought the writing was spread among quite a few characters, especially in the mid to late '80s. It certainly was more diverse than the last 10-15 years of the show where seemingly the same characters occupied the majority of the story time.

Looking at the article's date 1999, I'd have to disagree with the author's final paragraph. As much as ATWT was/is my favorite soap, how could anyone think that in '99 ATWT had a shot at taking the top spot from Y&R?! The show would have had a better chance 10 years prior. By 1999, the writing was disjointed and discombobulated with quite a few characters (e.g Eddie) that I really didn't care about. Maybe it's just me that felt that way.

Before Zoey Deschanel, there was Shannon O'Hara. Shannon was quirky before it became a 'thing'.

I actually have a question about camp vs. broad humor.

To me, something can't qualify as true camp if it is only regulated to one or two characters, unless they are the only two characters on the whole show. To me, the majority of the show has to be zany enough to qualify as true camp. An obvious example would be Passions.

As The World Turns had zany elements and Shannon was a zany character but I wouldn't say that qualifies as camp in the true sense of the word.

Maybe that's just me...what do others think?

I'd argue the core of ATWT just didn't like, want or need camp EVER. I remember cringing through a lot of the last ten years through crap like the Keys to the Kingdom contest, the teen college tour, Rick Decker, etc, because that's not what what I wanted or where ATWT was ever really successful at. (Camp being different from humor..)

ITA. This statement is Everything!

Thanks to AsTheWorldStillTurns, I finally got to see the episode where Shannon dunks Babs' head in the toilet (lol)! I have truly forgotten what went on in many of these episodes so it's great to see again and refresh my memory! And honestly, I probably missed some episodes when they originally aired. So much going on back then.

I really need to see the episode where Barbara gets outed for her non-ONS with Tom and her affair with Tonio. I'm hoping those will be uploaded at some point.

Lily was a brat back then too DRW50 (lol). Holden was really manipulative back then (I remember being annoyed by his games as a kid) and so was Meg. I think Dusty was the only one who didn't play games but he was genuinely confused.

Ths show didnt seem so bad then. Why did Tom not want Lisa to see the kids, because of the lawsuit? This Tom was such a selfrightous prig..(I never liked this Margo either, the other ones has a sense of humor but then Marland wasnt good with that.) Why did John teach at the school, becuase he was fired from Memorial. Is this the time that cute teacher was romancing Emily. He was hot and I got to say, I thought this Mark was hot and not THAT bad of an actor.

If this was from 1995, wasn't Marland, uh...deceased by then. I think HBS' Margo had somewhat of a sense of humor though, she certainly seemed to love to laugh (in between sulking and yelling).

Thank you for making it safe for me to admit that this Tom and Margo were my least favorite ones. Tom seemed so whiny and nasal and anal retentive and the sexy appeal between the couple was nil with these two. Up until these two, Tom and Margo had always had a sexiness to their chemistry. And it has nothing to do with age-- both Bob & Kim as well as Lucinda and John had a sexy quality to their interactions but Tom and Margo had become this staid, blah couple.

Although I preferred both theme songs from the 1980s, this one wasn't so bad, I actually kind of appreciate it now. For me, the last theme song they had, I just did not like.

You're right, no one could have ever thought that the show would be reduced to what it is today. I mean, I know I didn't. Otherwise I would have saved every single tape! LOL

You know, what really pains me here is that there was this man, Bill Bell, who worked hard to make his 'baby' soap so interesting and successful (I don't care that it's just a soap, when you are writing and producing something, especially for so long, it becomes like a child and those in the showbusiness know this) only to see the show get completely dismantled by selfish, short-sighted morons once he was sick and later dead. This is the worst part.

I feel the same about ATWT, how I wish I had saved my tapes from the mid-late 1980s!

But I can see why a lot of series these days only last for 7-10 years. Shonda Rhimes is already talking about how she knows how Scandal will end, which sort of reminds me of J.J. Abrams planning for the end of LOST. I think show runners in primetime don't want to risk having to hand over the creative reigns to others who might ruin what they've painstakingly created and constructed. They'd rather have that measure of control over the show's direction, even if it means that the show ends within a very finite period of time (of a few years instead of decades). I can't say I blame them.

Wow, reading about all these behind the camera power struggles and some petty decision making, I guess it becomes less of a mystery how soaps have landed in the position they're in now.

It would've been great if people could've put egos aside for the greater good and went with what was best for the show and the health of the show. I guess TPTB never planned on times when things wouldn't be so flush.

Thanks DRW50! I think 1986 had to be one of, if not, 'the' favorite year for me on ATWT. So many storylines and intrigues clicking that year.

Parker Posey (Tess/ATWT) was one of the narrators for a 4 part series called the Pioneers of Thirteen for WNET/Channel 13. Her segment was the 1980s and a clip from when she was in the cast of Tales of the City with Laura Linney (probably the first time I remember seeing Linney in anything, probably Parker Posey as well).

Other narrators who participated in the series included Meryl Streep who narrated the 1970s episode.

It's probably still on the thirteen website to anyone who's interested: thirteen.org

I grew up watching 13 so it was fascinating for me to watch and learn.

I'm sure there is some soap stuff out there, but none of the networks care about finding it, so it's probably rotting away. I do hope some is still around.

There are some ATWT episodes from those years which are around and haven't been released, just shown briefly in clips. I hope we get to see those eventually.

Lyla was only one on or two days. Given how awful Terri Conn and Hunt Block were, I can see where she wouldn't be able to connect to them in scenes. By this time I also don't think Ellen Dolan was anything like the Margo that she'd been close to.

I do wish they'd brought her back for the end, but they didn't care.

I guess I should be happy she ever came back at all.

Okay, I did get that sense that it was very brief. And yeah, you hit the nail on the head, I didn't want to come out and say it but Terri and Hunt were pretty bad but Anne looked downright uncomfortable, even with Ellen Dolan, in those scenes. I'm not putting the blame on Anne, though because the scene was a mess and the acting was so disengaged that I felt as if Anne was in a vacuum, like she was on a different energy than the rest of the actors who seemed very low energy. Wasn't '00 the year that ATWT started getting acclaim again? Hm.

I think our only hope these days are...dare I say it? Web soaps. If Beacon Hill does well, might Anne Sward put in an appearance someday? With HBS executive producing and Scott Bryce as one of the actors...well, I'm going to cling to that possibility.

Thanks for posting The Hughes restaurant scenes are truly touching. There's genuine warmth there probably because most of the actors at that table had known each other for decades.

Poor Lyla, she seems so unconnected to her children in these scenes. Did they fly in Anne Sward for a limited engagement with the show? These scenes seem as if she was dropped in the middle of this ongoing story line. I just don't see as much of a bond here which is so strange because from what I remember Lyla was deeply bonded with her children. Seeing Simon push the envelope was fun but the rest of those scenes were a bit of a mess.

Where was I in life that I haven't seen this before? I must have had a huge assignment due or something.

That final B/W scene was lovely to see. I don't know whether to believe P&G's oft repeated phrase about 'wiping' out episodes. What about kinescope? You often hear about reels that were thought destroyed turn up in some other format. Sadly, I don't think P&G cares to confirm that it is definitely impossible either way. That's how little they regard their former cash cows that just happened to have a loyal following and at one time critically acclaimed.

I wasn't watching GL at that time but dayum! At Pearl's Liquor Bar, huh? Welp, it's probably a pretty good guess that one or both parties were inebriated.

I guess I was right about the Crystal Hunt incident after reading that follow up.

I wasn't watching GL at that time but dayum! At Pearl's Liquor Bar, huh? Welp, it's probably a pretty good guess that one or both parties were inebriated.

Rose was a favorite of mine. And the relationship with Scott Holroyd's Paul.

I loved Cassandra Creech. I have never understood why another soap didn't snap her up - well, I do know, it's because they mostly don't care about black women. She did a bit a few years after this on GH as a lady assassin working for Faith Rosco, and she was great.

Is that Craig Lawlor as Adam? Jesus, he was wonderful and I don't know why he left but when they brought Adam back later it was some completely different character who had no resemblance to the boy everyone watched grow up. P&G seemed to delight in mutilating those young legacy characters in the last decade.

There were so many poor decisions made during the final decade of the show, it almost hurts to discuss it.

Cassandra Creech cuts a powerful figure (and I mean that in the best possible way) and to keep Denise vital as a character would have required a strong writer that had a genuine understanding of Denise's complicated backstory and elevate the character without judging her past or sanitizing the character.

There was a lot of upside to the character but writing for her seemed to be beyond the capabilities of the writers of the last decade, most notably Sheffer who got ratings moving at first but had the attention span of a gnat and often resorted to hair-brained crazy storylines characterized by scenes featuring pratfalls (having Barbara go through a window after doing a Grouch Marx impersonation was too much for me).

Hope could have been/should have been an important character in Oakdale. She should have been deeply connected to the Dixons, the Snyders and the Hughes. Her connection to Faith would have been explored and they should have grown up knowing this special connection even if they became eventual rivals. Yeah, but Hope got the 'Bonnie treatment' only worse because at least Jessica remained in Oakdale for some years after Bonnie was sent away (nevermind the fact that Jessica was eventually demeaned and stripped of most of the qualities that the character became known for).

I know P&G wanted to extract themselves from producing soaps but sometimes it seemed as if they had a very willing partner from the creative side. Or in Sheffer's case, a fairly indifferent one.

Lots of good stuff to mull over and discuss in these episodes. I guess I felt inspired to put my thoughts out there. Thanks for reading!

Thanks DRW50 for posting that Willows story conclusion:

Technically, I can see that a few scenes dragged a bit (Grant, Ellen & David) but I generally liked the flow of the dialogue. For the most part, I think all the technical aspects complemented each other really well. There was that one scene where Lisa was describing reading Ruth's journal about her love for Bennett and how it turned sour, the music heightened to the edge of being overly melodramatic but for the most part that music was subtle but evocative of the scenes.

The lighting is very reminiscent of those theater productions from the late 70s that you see on TV every now and then, in a good way, at least for me. Yes, the makeup was noticeable but Kim and Lisa both looked beautiful and the lighting helped illuminate that. Lisa looked luminescent, freckles and all and I liked the way they were both outfitted, lush but it suited the occasion and both women could pull it off.

I do see what people meant about the way Ellen was outfitted though. She looked older than she should have. I the mid '80s, she was styled much more suitably. I do like the fact that in the scenes with Grant, they juxtaposed the anxiety over what was going on at the Willows with wondering what's going on with Dee but those scenes needed some sort of pick up. I'm all for actors taking their time but the dialogue at times dragged just a little bit more than what I would've preferred-- to the point of almost meandering.

The camera work is great though and I really like those dissolves from one scene to the next. It adds to the dark dreamscape quality of the episode. Today's soaps seem to have very sharp cuts from one scene to the next, unless they're doing some sort of montage (complete with musical interlude) but this episode featured gentler cuts, almost as if each scene were cut with a scalpel--if that made any sense--but the cuts were delicately executed. It worked for me. Those directors, cameramen and post production editing crew really knew how to ply their trade!

Maybe because this episode featured family and close family friends but there was a definite intimacy in these scenes that I find lacking in some of today's soaps, even in scenes featuring family members. In the scenes with Tom and Bob, up worried about Lisa, and Bob preoccupied with other relationships. Even in the scene with Grant, David and Ellen, I didn't find myself wondering why he would be there at almost midnight, it made sense that they'd want to be where they are.

Maybe all the close ups where you can get close to the characters, see their expressions, you don't feel as though you are being kept at a distance, you're being invited in, even in the midst of all that dark intrigue.

But yes, I do realize that they would also need subsequent episodes featuring a young set as well to mix in. For this episode, though, I thought the set of characters were enough to craft an intriguing episode.

Well, I do agree with the notion that Y&R no longer seems to know what to do with Lauren. Domesticating her seemed to be the worst idea yet, though.

That was so wonderfully vicious of Lauren. This is the Lauren that I love, not the pathetic prop housewife she's been since 2005. It is so magnetically psychologically damaged of her to want to fill the void her baby's death left by getting Paul so drunk he sleeps with her. Dark, horrifying and gripping.

Seeing these clips of Lauren reminds me why I snicker every time I used to read a post (I don't go to those sites anymore) complaining about how Lauren sleeping with Carmine was supposedly so OOC. The Lauren I remember was a vixen who had a sex drive that rivaled any of the male characters and she wasn't about to apologize for it.

Even in a case like this where sex really wasn't the issue, often times it was the solution where Lauren was concerned. It wasn't all there was to Lauren but sensuality and sexuality was a big part of who she was and she was a vixen to boot.

At the risk of raising the ire of some Phyllis fans, I can only guess that perhaps the Phyllis character sort of supplanted the Lauren character in some ways. Although Lauren at her worst was never as diabolical as Phyllis at her worst, that image of the red headed vamp was taken over by Phyllis and Lauren was transitioned to supportive stable, married friend.

Whereas before, even in her previous marriages to Paul and Scott, she couldn't be tamed, after marrying Michael she was turned into this earth mother and wife. Even her business ambitions had become somewhat dulled.

So is Hillary B. Smith only producing? I thought she was going to appear in the series.

I feel very badly for his daughter especially

I've been watching so many episodes from '79 and the '80s lately that seeing this episode from the 90s is a bit jarring (I'd forgotten about Lyla and Cal) but many of the actors still have easy chemistry and the scenes have warmth despite the jarring pairings and we still have the roving camera shots that I like so much.

It's an interesting twist having Barbara be the one to try to keep it secret that she's had a baby with her sister's husband. I could see how some longtime fans might have rolled their eyes at the redundancy of the storyline and history repeating itself a generation later but given Barbara's history and personality, it kind of makes for an interesting twist and it fits.

Those outfits and some of those hairdon'ts, yikes! Barbara's outfit belongs on Voltron and as handsome as Rex Smith is, even he can't pull off that yuck-tastic sweater.

Andy was still just a kid for their run and up to early Marland.

Marland seemed to deemphasize the close bond between Betsy and Kim in his second run.

I think there was a closeness still present between Kim and Betsey but their onscreen time together was definitely minimal

I know that Tequan is still on GH (if it weren't for the occasional guest spot, would we really have proof?) so he's not a former soap star or anything, he's current but I wasn't sure where to put this:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/2014-pan-african-film-fest-will-honor-emayatzy-corinealdi-tequan-richmond-w-rising-stars-awards

It makes me wonder how long will he remain on GH?

And in other news:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2514709/Macaulay-Culkin-enjoys-french-kiss-Mila-Kunis-lookalike.html?welovesoaps.net

I know that many weren't fans of the MORE AMC/OLTL shows but would that we could have one of those episodes this week! I bet the host would ask JLP about this one.

Fascinating article NYT put out yesterday talking about the episode which was airing when JFK was shot. They mention that the full episode is at Paley (I didn't know that), talk about the scenes that didn't air, and interview Don Hastings, Eileen Fulton, and Rosemary Prinz.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/arts/television/as-the-world-turns-interrupted-by-kennedys-shooting.html?from=arts

Thanks for posting this. I wondered over the years how the actors found out (I guessed that they wouldn't have been told until the taping was wrapped up for the day) and how they reacted. Normally I wouldn't think too kindly of an actor ad-libbing in a script but it was kind of strange that there would be absolutely no acknowledgement of an event so big, especially on a show that had such a strong air of realism. I understand that you don't want to make the assassination the whole script but a tacit acknowledgement would've been acceptable, IMO.

I think posterity looks kindly on what Rosemary Prinz said.